Why doesn't God heal amputees?

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
The devil???
Just another scapegoat.
Talking snakes don't exist...sorry.
Humans can blame whoever they want...the reality is humans should start taking responsibility instead of blaming imaginary creatures like the devil and the pissed off man in the clouds.
Not trying to offend anybody...its just my opinion.

I guess you didn't get the memo that things are allegorical rather than literal?

Snakes for example are symbolic of wisdom in pretty much all religions. "be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves".

Other times it's call a dragon, which is symbolic of a powerful serpent(wise and powerful). He is after all call the ruler of this world and such.

So if you are reading and seeing actual creatures and such, then I'm sorry but you are the one missing the point. It's not saying literally this, it's saying like this. It's meant to be a story which brings about understanding.

You're basically repeating 1+1=2 instead of adding if all you see are snakes, fruits and trees.

reply to post by badmedia


"I guess you didn't get the memo that things are allegorical rather than literal? "

So, which way to you want it, literalistic or interpretive? Word of God or words of men? Want it both ways? Good luck with that. If it's the Word of God, everything in the BuyBull is holy writ. If it's not, then which parts are God's and which are inserted by men to further their agendas? Got a filter program I can download?

reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by badmedia

I guess you didn't get the memo that things are allegorical rather than literal?

It's meant to be a story

You're basically repeating 1+1=2

Exactly...its a story and nothing more.
So is it the word of god or a story??
Symbolism doesn't make things real by the way...I have owned snakes b4 and I can tell you(in real life) they are not very wise...in fact they are sneaky not wise unless you call being sneaky wise.Be sneaky as a snake??
I live in reality...the place where a symbol is just a picture and an animal is real.Get a snake and tell me if he is wise.

Yes 1+1=2
So who is all knowing enough to write this memo???


Edit to add...Its hard to talk about this kind of stuff without someone getting offended so lets not get all heated up with this conversation.
We can agree to disagree b4 it gets nasty.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by DrumsRfun]

my question and possible answer is this:

"why doesn't 'god' let us benefit from stem cell research?"

we could be SO much further along than we are now medically.

Originally posted by zooplancton
my question and possible answer is this:

"why doesn't 'god' let us benefit from stem cell research?"

we could be SO much further along than we are now medically.

AND, why did God let us go "6,000 years" without penicillin?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
And, please, how does an omnipotent, omniscient being not have time to answer a prayer from a child who just wants to walk again?

No where in my responses did I say God did not have the time, nor is it implied. I know factually God does indeed have the time from the answers from my own prayers. Given that I was in a state worthy of death, I also know that not only has He answered prayers but that I'm not the only one and will continue to do so:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." - Matthew 7:7-8

Great! So God must be some kind of magical wishing well and give anything to everyone right?

"The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven. He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it." Then he left them, got back into the boat and crossed to the other side." - Mark 8:11-13

Whoa, wait a minute, someone asked and was told "no". How is this possible?! It appears the Pharisees (and the rest of us) need to understand that WE are not God and that we are not in control. When we pray, we ask. In petitioning God and acknowledging Him as sovereign, we give Him the glory and respect of His position. From there, it is in the hands of God to provide to those who believe in Him, for:

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." - Matthew 7:6 (which is right before the 'ask and it will be given' passage)

Will God give to those who love and respect him? Absolutely:

"He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." - Matthew 17:20

The very moment that we begin to dictate to God our requirements is the very moment that faith vanishes and becomes useless.

Ladies and gentlemen, the answers are right there. I know how difficult of a read the Bible can be from the beginning, but if you start with either John or Matthew, these most basic questions will have a light shed upon them that is apparently very needed.

pray, train, study, play,
God bless.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Well here's my attempt to answer that question I formulated some time ago when confronted with a similar question - it is neither definitive, nor dogmatic.

If one looks at the miracles in the Gospels all of them are acting upon matter already present: water into wine, feeding the multitude, sight to the blind etc. etc. Where amputations are concerned the "matter" (i.e. leg etc.) is no longer present for the miracle to act upon. God deals in realities as much as science does, indeed the reality is His. There are of course many consequent questions that could be/would be raised from this answer, which is the point of such questions. For example, "does this mean God can't regrow someone's leg for them?" It does not. "Does that mean He's cruel enough to allow the amputation to persist?" No it does not. God's actions are reasonable according to His Nature, a few people with their limbs miraculously regrown would undoubtedly be a huge threat to the aspect of our nature which God does not contravene or "cut off" from us - free will.

Another question I would ask would concern a personally known instance of a man with tremendous faith who has recently had an amputation necessitated by a particularly aggressive form of bone cancer. His faith in God persists with the same, if not greater strength, than before he was afflicted with this illness. Do the oh so smart inquisitors of faith and the divine want to pursue him to cut him off from the hope he finds in faith and love of God?

As for the very recent mention of "stem cell research" in this thread. Neither I, nor most Christians, have any objection to stem cell research, it shows some great promise. Our, my, problem is specifically with "embryonic stem cell research" by which science is encouraged to treat human life as a commodity.

Reason, as gifted to humanity by the Creator, is a splendid gift which enables the scientific advancement of understanding and therapy for many illnesses however cut off from the reason inherent in the Natural Law and the encumbent morality it becomes a monstrous entity which lacks respect for human life.

reply to post by Supercertari


So God can't whip up a new limb from "nothing"? He purportedly created the Universe, why can't he do a few pounds of flesh and bone.

Unless, of course, he's not really there.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Just had to share this someone who i used to work with thought you could grow your limbs back, like a lizard can grow it's tail back. She was soooo sweet, and a tad dismayed when we corrected her.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Well thank you for proving the validity of at least one proposition in my previous post. My prophetic skills haven't let me down.

Perhaps you'd like to read my whole post and how I pre-addressed the question I knew someone of your ilk would raise.

Originally posted by Supercertari
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

Well thank you for proving the validity of at least one proposition in my previous post. My prophetic skills haven't let me down.

Perhaps you'd like to read my whole post and how I pre-addressed the question I knew someone of your ilk would raise.

I'm not an ilk, I'm a meese, note the large flat antlers and the loveable expression.

And your deflection failed, you still haven't show why that SOB in Heaven would let amputees who sincerely prayed have their limbs back.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by badmedia

 

"I guess you didn't get the memo that things are allegorical rather than literal? "

So, which way to you want it, literalistic or interpretive? Word of God or words of men? Want it both ways? Good luck with that. If it's the Word of God, everything in the BuyBull is holy writ. If it's not, then which parts are God's and which are inserted by men to further their agendas? Got a filter program I can download?

You seem to be confusing me with a christian. Which is generally why your arguments are so lacking, and it's rather common with people who want to "disprove" god and so forth as you do.

It is typical for people such as yourself to go ahead and stereotype others and then take the worse example you can possible find and use that example to apply it to everyone else. In the end, you aren't actually debating with anyone, you are just debating against the assumptions you put on people. And when you assume, you make an "ass" outta "u" and "me".

Not to mention the fact you are basing your judgments on what other people say, not what the bible actually says. Which is about like rejecting science based on what a 5 year old says.

But since you didn't know, I do not believe the bible is the word of god. And anyone who says it is the word of god has only substituted the bible for the real thing. As obviously whoever wrote the bible had to "hear" another word in order to write it in the first place.

If you actually understood the bible, you'd know that Jesus actually points out the same hypocrisies you see Christians do, and specifically warns of "christianity".

The only program you can use to "filter" is called "understanding", and understanding comes from the father/holy spirit.

Proverbs 8

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
Exactly...its a story and nothing more.
So is it the word of god or a story??
Symbolism doesn't make things real by the way...I have owned snakes b4 and I can tell you(in real life) they are not very wise...in fact they are sneaky not wise unless you call being sneaky wise.Be sneaky as a snake??
I live in reality...the place where a symbol is just a picture and an animal is real.Get a snake and tell me if he is wise.

Yes 1+1=2
So who is all knowing enough to write this memo???


Edit to add...Its hard to talk about this kind of stuff without someone getting offended so lets not get all heated up with this conversation.
We can agree to disagree b4 it gets nasty.

The word of god is not a language you can speak directly, and as such there are no words which can be the "word of god". The bible is not the "word of god", there is no physical such thing.

But through understanding you can hear the father, and when you have that understanding then you can hear the father, and then you will know the "word" of god.

Where as 1+1=2 is an expression, the word of god in that example would be knowing how to add. In which case with understanding a literal 1+1=2 may be "true", but because you can understand then you also know many other literal truths.

Those who focus on the bible as the literal word of god are those who accept and take 1+1=2 and don't really understand, and thus they do not hear the father. And so they give lip service to 1+1=2 without actually knowing how to add.


That you would even say "symbols don't make it real" just goes to show how much you don't understand. You think you live in reality, but you don't even know what reality is. It's not about what is literally "real", it's about what you can understand. Because the basis for your entire argument is not based on understanding, it's based on foolishly taking things literally and then trying to prove it literally.

It's like someone who wants to argue that Jesus is obvious fake because the mustard seed isn't the smallest seed in the world. Such is anal, such is useless and such is ignorance because it purposely ignores the understanding meant to be given for the literal.

Things are put into symbolism to keep the truth "hidden" from those who don't understand. Because if it had not been hidden in such a way, then it would have been destroyed by those who do not want such information known. An artist tells a lie in order to reveal the truth. That revelation comes in understanding.

This is no different than those who lack understanding about our society today, and thus are "blind" and they go and watch the matrix movie and they say "oh man those special effects were great!!!!". They could only see the literal movie, because they lacked the basic understanding needed to see the deeper meanings.

And now what you are basically doing is dismising the entire matrix movie based on ignorant people who want to think the matrix is literally real in the way it is presented, which also promotes more ignorance rather than pointing out the truths the movie points out about society.

If you truly understand Jesus and what he stood for, then you will find ALL the things he deal with present in todays society. And he would be on "your" side if you were on the right side of things. He'd be posting on these kinds of forums and so forth if here today.

Money changers = international bankers and central banks and that fraud. Yeah, such functions have been around that long and Jesus was actually pointing out and carrying on that fight 2000 years ago.

Pharisees = religious hypocrites. Yep, they were present back then too, and yes Jesus also dealt and went against those.

So you can sit around and point out the sillyness of "christians" and point out how ridiculous they are focusing on the literal, but the truth of the matter is you don't understand it either, and you are just the other side of the coin and just like them. Both without understanding, both walking in darkness and so forth.

There is nothing you can say that would really offend me personally. Such things don't bother me. The only thing that irritates me is ignorance.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
So God can't whip up a new limb from "nothing"? He purportedly created the Universe, why can't he do a few pounds of flesh and bone.

Unless, of course, he's not really there.

Tell me why can't YOU grow your own limbs back? "You" grew them the first time correct? It's "your" body correct? Why is it that you can't do these things yourself.

Why is it we can't just make "our" bodies get rid of fat and such? Why can't I just push a button on my arm and fall asleep instantly(you know you've wished for one).

Do these things make you not real? No. At best it just means that what people say about god is false, not that god is false. And to suggest what you are suggesting is intellectually dishonest.

Originally posted by badmediaTell me why can't YOU grow your own limbs back? "You" grew them the first time correct? It's "your" body correct? Why is it that you can't do these things yourself.

Why is it we can't just make "our" bodies get rid of fat and such? Why can't I just push a button on my arm and fall asleep instantly(you know you've wished for one).

Do these things make you not real? No. At best it just means that what people say about god is false, not that god is false. And to suggest what you are suggesting is intellectually dishonest.

I make no claims of being a supernatural creature. That's why I can't grow limbs back. DUH!

If the Great Sky Fairy answers prayers for holes-in-one, a cake that doesn't fall, and a good BM, why can't he do something worthwhile and restore people to a whole state?

Unless, of course, he isn't really there.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
I make no claims of being a supernatural creature. That's why I can't grow limbs back. DUH!

If the Great Sky Fairy answers prayers for holes-in-one, a cake that doesn't fall, and a good BM, why can't he do something worthwhile and restore people to a whole state?

Unless, of course, he isn't really there.

But you grew them the first time did you not? Was that supernatural? Why can't you do it a 2nd time?

There is no such thing as the supernatural, only that which is not understood is called that. Once understood, things are completely natural. Someone might have said a cell phone was "supernatural" 1000 years ago. Carrying voice over long distances and people in the middle can't hear? Magic they would have said.

As for the "Great Sky Fairy": If you had actually read the bible and gained any kind of understanding you would know that there is no "Great Sky Fairy", because the father(god) is within people.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Sorry, it doesn't say anything about someone being externally in the sky. Maybe you should actually understand something before you go knocking it?

reply to post by badmedia


"But you grew them the first time did you not? Was that supernatural? Why can't you do it a 2nd time? "

No, it wasn't. But the great sky fairy is supposed to be supernatural, by definition. So why can't he/she/it grow limbs back when an honor, worthy appeal is made.

Unless, of course, he/she/it isn't really there.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
"But you grew them the first time did you not? Was that supernatural? Why can't you do it a 2nd time? "

No, it wasn't. But the great sky fairy is supposed to be supernatural, by definition. So why can't he/she/it grow limbs back when an honor, worthy appeal is made.

Unless, of course, he/she/it isn't really there.

Are you trying to convince yourself or me? Or are you just trolling? Because obviously it doesn't really matter what anyone tries to explain to you, you are just going to go right back to your "safe house" and start back with this absurd sky fairy crap.

If you can't even acknowledge what the other person is telling you, then there is not much reason to even talk to you. If it makes you feel better and all you want to do is take the most extreme and crazy things people and label all things based on those things then be my guest, but I have better things to do than sit and listen to your ignorance.

Good luck, and if you should ever get a clue and start asking questions because you are looking for answers rather than as a way of attacking others let me know.

reply to post by badmedia


You haven't explained anything yet. You've just rationalized your opinions. Just like the others, you have no explanation, just a defensiveness as you try to avoid the obvious conclusion that there is no god to heal amputees.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
You haven't explained anything yet. You've just rationalized your opinions. Just like the others, you have no explanation, just a defensiveness as you try to avoid the obvious conclusion that there is no god to heal amputees.

Where do you get this obvious conclusion? The best "conclusion" you could even come from the statement from the start is just that god doesn't heal amputees, OR that just because someone says something of or about god, it doesn't mean it is true.

Beyond that you are only making assumptions and using ridicule as if you were in highschool towards anyone who says other with little things like "sky fairy".

Basically, you are a waste of time until you can be honest in your arguments.