Miss California gets everyones panties in a bunch!

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
I will tell you why there shouldn't be gay "marriage".

Name me a SINGLE country in the entire HISTORY of the world that lasted longer than 100 years after gays were "openly accepted" in their society.

Oh, and if you think you are going to say "the spartans" or "the greeks", you'd better think again, and re-read your history.

That is pretty moronic and not even worth an intelligent response. The USA and the rest of the world isn't going to fall apart from gays getting married. Economic crisis like what we're having now will sure do it. Greed will sure do it.

Marriage has already been ruined, not by gays, but by straight people since they get devorced like 50% of the time.

Whether there are 200 countries that flourished with gay marriage and rights or 0, who cares honestly? Is that your arguement, its pretty pathetic.

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

I'm not "enraged", just disgusted. Your argument fails, sorry but nothing is comparable to two consenting adults, nothing. If marriage is really about the holes and poles of adult humans, then so be it, but don't compare it to anything else unless you want to sound like a fool grasping at straws. Kids, rocks, pets, etc CANNOT enter into legal contracts. You fail.

The law can always be changed so that if the object is a pet or a rock then that party doesnt need to enter into an agreement since they have no legal rights. If its a kid, the parents could consent.

Why do you feel like you have a right to put a limit on who/what a person can be married to. You dont like the limits they have now, but if they just set the limit where you are happy then its ok, but as soon as someone wants to marry something you disagree with then its wrong. That is hypocritical.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


I realize you are just playing Devil's Advocate and baiting people, but I'll go ahead and answer this question:

The boundaries determining who can possess a marriage license are coterminous with those determining who can enter any other contract. There should be no other consideration. Anything less is discrimination based on sex organs.

To allow marriage to children, animals, or inanimate objects would be to completely alter the boundaries of all legal contracts, and any argument to allow those things are as ignorant and insulting as your own.

If I'm correct that you are presenting a tongue-in-cheek opinion that allows for intelligent dissent, then I think you are going about it the wrong way, but I thank you for the opportunity.

reply to post by maus80


Thanks. You are right I am just creating a scenario of the extreme to push peoples thinking to the boundary. I am not really doing it to be mean or as a joke. I really think that people will start to say they can marry something outside the box (no pun intended). Some group of people are always going to push the limits of the law. I guess it doesnt really hurt anyone if somebody marry's a goat, so what the heck.

Thanks, Miss california, for saying what a lot of people believe. Not PC, but from your heart, you go girl.

We have some weird contradictories in this country it seems. How come someone can be homophobic, or whatever you want to call it, but they can't be racist? We've come to the conclusion that racism is wrong but hate on gays is ok. A person on TV could say I hate gays and its tolerated a whole lot better than I hate blacks.

Someone made the comment "I'm gay. Do I like what she said? No. Do I agree with it? No. Am I glad she could practice freedom of speech? Yes."

Seriously, is there a black person or a jew that would be willing to say the same thing? I just don't get it, we tolerate hate against gays but not against jews or other races.

I can't imagine this happening to say Obama. "Obama, I think you're a dumb black that should be picking cotton or doing some other slave work. I don't think you and your wife who are animals should be allowed to marry either." Obama says, "Do I like what you said? No. Do I agree with what you said? No. Am I glad you could practice freedom of speech? Yes."

I can't see it happening. Seems like gays are the only ones that have to tolerate "freedom of speech" but when a different minority is attacked, that person who made the hateful comments gets huge backlash.

reply to post by ghaleon12


Saying that you believe gays shouldnt be allowed to marry is not hateful. It just means you believe 2 people of the same sex shouldnt be allowed to marry.

Bringing up Obama doesnt really help your case because every time you disagree with something he is doing you are automatically labeled a racist. So its the same thing. If you disagre with the gay agenda you hate gays and if you disagree with Obama you are a racist. That is what upsets people. Why cant we just disagree with something without peope automatically jumping to we hate those people. I dont hate gay people. I dont hate african americans or africans or asians or anyone else. I just sometimes disagree with them.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

Saying that you believe gays shouldnt be allowed to marry is not hateful. It just means you believe 2 people of the same sex shouldnt be allowed to marry.

Bringing up Obama doesnt really help your case because every time you disagree with something he is doing you are automatically labeled a racist. So its the same thing. If you disagre with the gay agenda you hate gays and if you disagree with Obama you are a racist. That is what upsets people. Why cant we just disagree with something without peope automatically jumping to we hate those people. I dont hate gay people. I dont hate african americans or africans or asians or anyone else. I just sometimes disagree with them.

I'm just talking about a famous black person, or any black person, my point is that they aren't going to respect you or your freedom of speech if you are saying they don't deserve equal rights.

I think it comes down to what "hate" is. If I say a person and their wife shouldn't get married because the wife is taller than you, there's no other way to understand it other than hate. Where do these opinions come from? Hate, lol. So a person might say "Oh I don't hate". But that stance against gays wouldn't exist if there wasn't hate. That whole "hate has nothing to do with it" thing is a joke, it makes no sense.

Sorta like if the Germans today still through jews into the crematoriums.
"Sir, why are you throwing jews into the fires?"
"Oh this, we've been doing this for the past couple of decades".
"How come?"
"No one really knows, habit I guess"
"I did some research and hatred against Jews was rampant when this activity started."
"Oh really? Well I can assure you that even if that was the case, what we're doing now is free of that hatred".

[edit on 21-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by ghaleon12


That just shows how you have limited your thinking down to anytime you dont agree with someones choice it has to be hate.

You could also say you dont think he should marry a taller wife because you happen to have more information that she doesnt really like short guys but she is just marrying him for security. It doesnt mean you hate them. Maybe if you talked to them and got more info on why they didnt want them to marry you would find out there was a real reason other than hate.. but you just assume its hate without ever asking if it could be anything else. That is the problem with that way of thinking.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

That just shows how you have limited your thinking down to anytime you dont agree with someones choice it has to be hate.

You could also say you dont think he should marry a taller wife because you happen to have more information that she doesnt really like short guys but she is just marrying him for security. It doesnt mean you hate them. Maybe if you talked to them and got more info on why they didnt want them to marry you would find out there was a real reason other than hate.

Someone's choice on gay marriage? Since when do straight people have a choice on a gay marriage? It makes no sense. The majority dictating minority rights at its finest.

There is no logical, unbiased reason why gays can't be allowed equal rights. That's why its hate. Could someone have the opinion, without hate, that blacks shouldn't be allowed to marry? Give me a break

I don't get what you said about the taller wife thing, but just because you think you're "smarter" and have more information doesn't mean you can dictate what they can and can not do.

You missed my point on the Obama thing btw. This is what I said after it:

"I can't see it happening. Seems like gays are the only ones that have to tolerate "freedom of speech" but when a different minority is attacked, that person who made the hateful comments gets huge backlash".

Gay bashing: ok. Racist bashing: not okay. I'm glad someone got to speak their mind about anti-gay ideas: Yes. I'm glad someone got to speak their mind about anti-race ideas: No.

Even on this board, you can't say anything racism I believe without it getting deleted. That was my point.




[edit on 21-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Someone's choice on gay marriage? Since when do straight people have a choice on a gay marriage? It makes no sense. The majority dictating minority rights at its finest.

There is no logical, unbiased reason why gays can't be allowed equal rights. That's why its hate. Could someone have the opinion, without hate, that blacks shouldn't be allowed to marry? Give me a break

I don't get what you said about the taller wife thing, but just because you think you're "smarter" and have more information doesn't mean you can dictate what they can and can not do.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

We live in a democracy so by definition the majority has a choice what the minority can and cannot do. So straight people being the majority can decide what non-straight people can or cannot do. To use your words " The majority dictating minority rights at its finest."

My point with the taller wife thing was simple. You jump to a conclusion of hate without ever asking the person why they feel that way. Maybe if you had asked you would have learned that there was a perfectly valid reason. But you just assume everyone hates without getting to know how they came to the conclusion.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
We live in a democracy so by definition the majority has a choice what the minority can and cannot do. So straight people being the majority can decide what non-straight people can or cannot do. To use your words " The majority dictating minority rights at its finest."

My point with the taller wife thing was simple. You jump to a conclusion of hate without ever asking the person why they feel that way. Maybe if you had asked you would have learned that there was a perfectly valid reason. But you just assume everyone hates without getting to know how they came to the conclusion.

Democracy doesn't protect minority rights, a republic does. The founders made this country a republic for a reason. Any sensible person should realize that when the majority dictates the rights of a minority, the minority gets screwed. Look back at blacks, jews, ect...

Even if there was a good reason a person felt like they possessed in the case of the wife thing, all they need to do is back off. Is doesn't concern anyone other that the people getting married. Marriage is a contract between two people, and it doesn't involve any one else's opinions, since they aren't in the contract...

This is a good example of how we need to get back to the roots of conservatism. Small government, pro individual rights and decisions. Right now people and government have way too large of a sway on peoples' lives. I'm hoping that the republican party moves in this direction, which is what it used to be. McCain's daughter seemed to speak of something similar... This debate is just a game, it shouldn't even be happening since it infringes on adults' rights to make individual decisions on their life.


[edit on 21-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
I'm Pro Gay Marriage, i think anyone should have the right to marry if they want, who are we or anyone else to dictate who can and can't be married?

I'm also Pro Free Speech, so she does have the right to say what she believes, but i also think maybe she could have gone about it in a better way

I'm pro anyone marries whoever as long as the age is legit .


I'm glad she said her honest opinion.

Imagine if we all had to say what others wanted us to say. Life would suck worse than it already does sometimes.

People who think she should not have said that are douche bags.

She can say what she wants. THEY did ask the question so they better be prepared for the answer.

There are too many people in this world who just want everybody to agree with what they said.

I think gay's should be able to marry. We hate that yet we support violence and greed and selfishness .

I think we as American's have our priorities mixed up a bit.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
We live in a democracy so by definition the majority has a choice what the minority can and cannot do. So straight people being the majority can decide what non-straight people can or cannot do.

We live in a republic, which protects the rights of the minority. Without that protection, democracy would be nothing more than a fancy word for "mob rule."

This seems like an appropriate time for some quotes from the late, great Ayn Rand:

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual). "

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."

"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see."

"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live."

"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me."

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."

"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil."

In the spirit of that last quote, I should say that I respect the bravery of this woman to say what she believes and not cater to the crowd or try to toe the line. If her honesty cost her the crown, at least she can say she remained true to herself.

Am I the only person that wasn't surpized by this. Its quite clear how this country is changing. If you Don't support Gay marriage, Abortions, Ect then you are branded evil.

Dissagree with Barrack Obama, and BAM you are a racist.

It's the same thing. Then Once Unions control every single Business, Im sure when you go in for a Job interview you will be asked if you support Gay marriage. Then you'll be asked how many of your children have you aborted. Then you'll be asked if you've ever fired a Gun before.

Is this the perfect world you loonies dreamed of? CooCoo much?

reply to post by maus80


Well the only answer I have for you on this is that gays havent been given a right to marry in this country. Maybe some day they will.

If I remember right, the California voters just voted down a gay marriage bill. So I guess that means the majority can dictate to the minority.

reply to post by Mikeyy


Having to constantly drag other issues into this subject is one obvious sign that there is no actual valid argument for denying rights to a minority.

Sorry, but telling people that they aren't due the same rights as everyone else because of what is between their legs does come off as a bit evil. Men should have all of the same legal rights as women, and women should have all of the same legal rights as men. Women have the right to enter into a marriage contract with men, so should men. Men have the right to enter into a marriage contract with women, so should women.

Isn't she from the same state that voted prop 8 down? She represents her state well it seems.

I agree with what everything Miss California said.

Nothing makes me more proud than knowing my fellow neighbors are keeping things the good ol' fasion way!

Ok this is kind of a joke. These ads really exist, but this kind of proves a point.

Has anybody seen those "thats so gay" ads?

Those just sum it up. We have a whole group of people that would spend money on ads to try to convince us that saying "that's so gay" is hate speech. If hearing that really hurts your feelings that bad you have an issue with being oversensitive. By the way, those commercials are so gay!

My point to all this is that they are hurting their own cause with all of this oversensitivity. They flip out when Miss California says she doesnt believe in gay marriage and try to limit everyones speech by trying to make saying "that's so gay" into hate speech.

Placing ads like this is the equivalent of the kid in school that always ran and told the teacher when someone did something wrong, so then you have to pick on him because something in your DNA makes you.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]