Is The Political "Right" Perpetuating a Conspiracy Against Christianity?

As I discuss in some detail in my soon-to-be-released book, Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order, one of the most significant transformations of American domestic politics over the past three decades since the early 1970's, when George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA, has been the deliberate manipulation of significant segments of the population, most of them undoubtedly sincere believing people, around the ideology of 'born-again' evangelical Christian Fundamentalism to create something known as the Christian Right. Within the broad spectrum of fundamentalist denominations there are some currents which are particularly alarming. Sarah Palin comes out of such a milieu.

Maybe?

First, let me note that I am not sure that I should have linked to the site that I linked to, given the history of this site and the one linked to, but I think many of the articles posted on the linked site are important to any intelligent discussion of the issues we discuss here.

The spawning of some Christian Right sects also creates an ideology to drive the shock troops willing to literally 'die for Christ' in places such as Iraq or Afghanistan, Iran or elsewhere that the Pentagon needs their services. That ideology has been used to build a fanatical activist base within the Republican Party which backs a right-wing domestic agenda and a military foreign policy that sees Islam or other suitable opponents of the US power elite as Satanism incarnate.

Amazing

You know, it has always been amazing to me that Jesus taught peace and forgiveness, yet, the "Christian Right" always seem quick to use military power. They talk of a peaceful world coming, yet they seem very reluctant to make it a reality now. They speak as if it HAS to be some time in the FUTURE, not now. I can't help but ask why.

Of course, we all know that Evangelicals aren't worried about the outbreak of war and major chaos because they believe in the fictitional "Rapture," in which they will be worthy of escaping any harm.

It is funny that the money grubbing con-artist, who perpetuates the fallacy of the pre-tribulational "Rapture," Tim Lahaye is a member of the CNP.

The CNP, created in the early 1980's during the Reagan era, is the nexus for several odd and quite powerful organizations. It was described by ABC's Marc J. Ambinder as 'the conservative version of the Council on Foreign Relations.' CNP Members include names such as General John Singlaub, shipping magnate J. Peter Grace, Texas billionaire Nelson Bunker Hunt, Edwin J. Feulner Jr of the right-wing Heritage Foundation, Rev. Pat Robertson of the Christian Broadcasting Network, Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye and most of the prominent names in the Christian Right around Bush. It has included prominent politicians including Senator Trent Lott, Senator Don Nickles, former Attorney General Ed Meese, Col. Oliver North of Iran-Contra fame, and Right-wing philanthropist Else Prince, mother of Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater the controversial private security firm.1

Time to wake up

It is time for people to wake up and realize what is happening. If they don't, they will soon be enmeshed in something that they never intended to become enmeshed in.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 20-4-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 20-4-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Simply because us evengelicals support the troops and the war in Iraq, usually, doesn't mean that we just want to go around the world and start wars all the time. Out of all the churches I've been to, I've never heard the Pastor or any of the congregants support starting a war needlessly.

talk of a peaceful world coming, yet they seem very reluctant to make it a reality now. They speak as if it HAS to be some time in the FUTURE, not now. I can't help but ask why.

Ask any evangelical and I'm pretty certain that you'll hear them say that they would love for the world to be at peace right now. I, for one, would love for that to happen--especially with my first child due this week. But the reality of it is, evengelicals know that this won't happen. Jesus told us that as the end draws closer and closer, the violence will ratchet up, just as in the days of Noah. The comfort in that is that after the Tribulation, there will be eternal peace, as Christ reigns on the Earth. That is why evangelicals speak of a future peaceful Earth--because that is when it is actually going to be.

Of course, we all know that Evangelicals aren't worried about the outbreak of war and major chaos because they believe in the fictitional "Rapture," in which they will be worthy of escaping any harm.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of Evangelicals do worry about the outbreak of war and major chaos. Everyday, I'm afraid that I'm gong to turn on the TV and something bad will have happened. I think that you misunderstand the rapture.

The rapture isn't so that Christians will escape any harm, but a specific period of time--the Tribulation. Beyond Tim LaHaye, there are plenty of other biblical scholars that hold to the pretribulational rapture view, so it's not just a fringe teaching/idea.

I do agree with the title of this thread though--I do feel that the right wing political machine, latching onto Christianity, has been a conspiracy theory of sorts against Christians. I say this because, due to the right wing pulling Christianity through the mud as they have, many people have grown angry and hostile toward evangelical Christianity due to the distorted view of it that's shown.

Let me address the points made in this post from an Evangelical point of view. Last night at a prayer meeting at my church I was given a prophetic word from God. Yes, I am the tongue talking Pentecostal type of Christian that you have probably been told to steer clear of.
This thread is exactly the kind of thing I was expecting to see and it is a confirmation to the word given to me by God. I don't care if you believe in the power of the Holy Ghost or not but I know He dwells in me and I am here to share His message.
God told me clearly that "The Accuser is coming".

Listen, I have no idea where the "right wing extremest" get their racist views and hatred from. Good Christians who know the scriptures and are born again know good and well that there is no place for hate in the heart of a follower of Christ.
Listen to the prophetic word of God. A false flag "terror attack" is coming very soon that will make 9/11 look lame in comparison.
Islam will not be blamed this time. This time the blame will fall on the "right wing extremest" and all Christians will be lumped into the same category of terrorist.
It first happened to the Muslims and that is consistent with history. What was done to them is coming to the Church but it is going to be so much worse!
I do not know the time and I do not know the place but I know that it is going to happen.
The Illuminati, the elitist of the globe have been waiting for this time and they are about to execute their final plan to bring about the NWO!

Stand up for Christ! Stand up for Jesus! Stand up against global elite and stand in the face of the Accuser! The Bible says that the cold will wax colder and the hot get hotter.
The Lord God says, "Who will stand with Me and the Lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world?"
It is coming!

Originally posted by octotom
Simply because us evengelicals support the troops and the war in Iraq, usually, doesn't mean that we just want to go around the world and start wars all the time. Out of all the churches I've been to, I've never heard the Pastor or any of the congregants support starting a war needlessly.

Sorry, but the commandment is do not kill. Do not murder, there is no justification for your actions at ALL.

What war would Jesus support? Why do you try to save yourself if you follow Jesus as claimed? Did you not believe him when he said not to fear those who only have power to kill the body? But yet, when you try to say that a war is ok, that is exactly what you do.

Matthew 10

26Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I guess Jesus lied? No, you just aren't what you claim to be.

Rev 2:9
9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

3:9
9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

You belong to the church of Satan. If you did actually follow Jesus, then you wouldn't be supporting wars and such.

But please, continue on about how you must kill and do things against what Jesus said. Please, continue on and tell me all about how we are supposed to save our own lives by any means needed.

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
Let me address the points made in this post from an Evangelical point of view. Last night at a prayer meeting at my church I was given a prophetic word from God. Yes, I am the tongue talking Pentecostal type of Christian that you have probably been told to steer clear of.

That whole tongue talking thing is nonsense and a manipulation. When it says the holy spirit can speak in tongues, it means it speaks to people in a way they can understand. It doesn't matter what your "language" is, the holy spirit is able to communicate with you, because it speaks on a level of understanding.

A man of many "tongues" is a man who can speak many languages.

How that can get turned into people running around and screaming in a language that nobody can understand is beyond me.

No, the commandment is do not murber, not kill. When the translators of the King James Version translated that word, it was translated incorrectly. Killing someone in war is not an act of murder.

No, you just aren't what you claim to be. ... You belong to the church of Satan. If you did actually follow Jesus, then you wouldn't be supporting wars and such.

A little judgmental are we? How about "judge not unless you be judged"? While I believe that most of what you seem to believe, badmedia, is wrong, I'm not going around saying that your in "Satan's synagogue" or bring into questioning your salvation. This whole argument that you always bring up about Christians being of the synagogue of Satan is ridiculous. First, Christians aren't claiming to be Jews, as the verse literally says. Second, the church that Christ was talking to in that letter was under persecution by Jews--Jews that were trying to kill them because they were followers of Christ but yet said they were doing God's will.

Why do you try to save yourself if you follow Jesus as claimed? Did you not believe him when he said not to fear those who only have power to kill the body? But yet, when you try to say that a war is ok, that is exactly what you do.

No, I do believe Jesus when he said to not fear those who have power to kill the body. I'm not afraid of that. Saying that I believe that some wars are justified doesn't mean that I'm a trying to "save myself". You're putting words into my mouth and adding your own thoughts into what I say.

What war would Jesus support?

I'd put my money on WW2. That little war that the Allies had to go in and fight that ended up saving the Jews from being exterminated. The Jews are God's chosen people after all. If God's promises to them aren't fulfilled, then God's a liar and Satan wins.

But please, continue on about how you must kill and do things against what Jesus said

I never said to go against what Jesus said. Defending one's self isn't a sin either. If I came up from behind you and popped you on the side of your head, are you telling me that you're not going to stand up for yourself?

I never said that we must go out and kill. But, I did say that as the end draws closer, violence will ratchet up and people shouldn't be surprised or expect a peaceful Earth before Christ returns to reign.

reply to post by badmedia

That whole tongue talking thing is nonsense and a manipulation. When it says the holy spirit can speak in tongues, it means it speaks to people in a way they can understand. It doesn't matter what your "language" is, the holy spirit is able to communicate with you, because it speaks on a level of understanding.

Tongues, as shown in the New Testament, was actually people speaking in a language that they hadn't previously learned, that enables people to hear the Gospel. The clearest example of this is in Acts 2--people from all over the Roman world converged on Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost and they heard the disciples speaking in their own languages. It wasn't so much the Holy Spirit communicating to people, but people communicating to people, with a gift provided by the Holy Spirit.

The reason that Pentecostals believe what they do is a mystery, to me anyway, but the Apostle Paul addressed tongues to them in 1 Corinthians because, in simple terms, they were doing it wrong. Paul said that if one is going to speak in tongues, it should be interpretted because if you can't understand it, it has no purpose because it's not edifying to the body of Christ.

The Greek word for tongues is "glossa" which means language. So, whenever tongues is around, it's safe to say that it was a real language, not unintelligable sounds. Unintelligable sounds wouldn't have been that good of a gift anyway since many of the Greek and Roman cult religions did that--how would someone have known if it was truly from the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by octotom
No, the commandment is do not murber, not kill. When the translators of the King James Version translated that word, it was translated incorrectly. Killing someone in war is not an act of murder.

Vengence is mine sayeth the lord. You are never justified, if you kill then you have murdered.

A little judgmental are we? How about "judge not unless you be judged"? While I believe that most of what you seem to believe, badmedia, is wrong, I'm not going around saying that your in "Satan's synagogue" or bring into questioning your salvation. This whole argument that you always bring up about Christians being of the synagogue of Satan is ridiculous. First, Christians aren't claiming to be Jews, as the verse literally says. Second, the church that Christ was talking to in that letter was under persecution by Jews--Jews that were trying to kill them because they were followers of Christ but yet said they were doing God's will.

If I judged you, then you would be recieving punishment. Kind of funny an opinion is not even allowed and you call it "being judged" and yet you are free to tell people they are going to hell, or should be killed or that you are justified in killing them, yet I guess that isn't "judging them". But please, continue on about how I am judging you, but you aren't when you support a path of death and destruction.

If you agreed with me, then you would call it bearing "witness", but since you do not agree, it's called "judging". Although I have not punished anyone at all, or done anything other than give my opinion.

As for the jews part, this just goes to show WHY you don't follow Jesus and why you don't understand him. If you followed Jesus then you were called a JEW. There was no such thing as christians in that time because Christianity is a NEW religion, with it's NEW testament, and it's NEW leaders. So while the verse may literally say "Jews", you are considered a "Jew". That you would even think it only literally means "jews" is just a sign of ignorance on the topic.

In fact, the ONLY place you even see the word christian mentioned are in the books that came long after the death of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com...

Number of times Jesus says the word Christian: 0

No, I do believe Jesus when he said to not fear those who have power to kill the body. I'm not afraid of that. Saying that I believe that some wars are justified doesn't mean that I'm a trying to "save myself". You're putting words into my mouth and adding your own thoughts into what I say.

No, you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You do such things to save yourself and now when called on it, you say other things. There is NO justification EVER. NONE. ZERO. There is nothing you can say that changes that either.

What war would Jesus support?

I'd put my money on WW2. That little war that the Allies had to go in and fight that ended up saving the Jews from being exterminated. The Jews are God's chosen people after all. If God's promises to them aren't fulfilled, then God's a liar and Satan wins.

Let me get this straight. Jesus(god) does absolutely nothing to stop his own death, does absolutely nothing to save himself, says he is the way and tells people to follow his example. And from that example you came up with that sometimes it's ok to save yourself?

And you don't know what god promised anyone, and that stuff about satan wins has got to be just plain out ignorant. Satan wins based on the ACTIONS of the people. Because of people like YOU who walk a path of death and destruction.

Plus, the holocaust did happen. So I guess in your opinion Satan won because the promise was broken to each and every one of those "jews" who died there.

But please, continue on about how you must kill and do things against what Jesus said

I never said to go against what Jesus said. Defending one's self isn't a sin either. If I came up from behind you and popped you on the side of your head, are you telling me that you're not going to stand up for yourself?

I never said that we must go out and kill. But, I did say that as the end draws closer, violence will ratchet up and people shouldn't be surprised or expect a peaceful Earth before Christ returns to reign.

You support wars, then you support death and destruction. I'm pretty sure it was "blessed are the peacemakers", not "blessed are those who go around and kill, but not murder, others in my name.

If I will know them by their fruits, then you are rotten. I look at your way, and all I see is hypocrisy, death and destruction. It is because of people like you that people drop religion as a whole, because they can see those same fruits too.

I guess when Jesus said

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

He meant everyone but you and modern day "christians", who are in no way the same as those who Jesus called Jews?

Or am I being judgmental because for sticking up and pointing out you do the opposite of what Jesus says?

As for the violence getting bigger. HMMMM, do you think it might be because of people who support it?



[edit on 21-4-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by octotom


This goes right along with Jesus saying "for those with ears, hear". It's not like people had no ears before.

The "toungue" the holy spirit speaks in is understanding. Thus why it is said that you need the holy spirit to really understand the bible.

The new language people get from the holy spirit is understanding, and before one has that understanding the words you hear with your ears are not the same. When you get the holy spirit your entire perspective of the world changes, because it is built upon new understanding. You can "see" through people and many other things. But nothing physical changes. What changes is the persons basic understanding of things.

The new language people hear and speak in after is understanding, which is foreign to those without the holy spirit, and you can sit there and give that understanding to someone without the holy spirit, and they will not understand it at all, just as many do not understand me, only those who already have understanding know what I talk about.

Jesus speaks in this language, and that language stays no matter what human language it is translated into, so long as the meanings are kept in tact.

For example, before I had my vision and got the holy spirit I could read Jesus and it meant nothing to me. I could listen to Jesus speak all day, I knew the meaning of the individual words for a long time, but I could not HEAR him. Now that I have understanding given by the holy spirit, I can HEAR him, and I can hear the father I know speaking through him.

Like walking into a math class. Teacher says 1+1=2. Little billy can repeat 1+1=2 and listen to 1+1=2 all day long. If given a test, he can probably remember 1+1=2 and write that back down. Billy can listen to the teacher and repeat. But billy does not hear the teacher until he can add. Only when billy understands how to add for himself does he actually HEAR what the teacher is given him. This you can only understand for yourself because you yourself understand how to add. If you did not know how to add, you wouldn't be able to know or tell the difference, you would not hear me.

Likewise, I could have memorized the words of Jesus and repeated them for people. I could have just done whatever the church told me to do and appeared to be right, and so forth. But until someone gets actual understanding for themselves, then all they do is listen, not hear.

Yes, getting the holy spirit is very much like getting a new language and such. A new understanding and so forth, but the words spoke are still the same language and so forth.

While there is over 2 billion christians in the world, only a very few people can hear. Many have lips close, but hearts and understanding much further.

Proverbs 8

6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

What does billy do before he can add? He accepts. He accepts that the teacher is the authority and thus the teacher is right. He has no idea one way or another until he can add, only when he can add for himself does he know if the teacher is right. The teacher could have told him 1+1=5 and he would have accepted that as true, even though it wasn't.

Notice from Psalm 82

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

What do these(poor and fatherless) people do?

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

They do NOT understand. They walk in darkness.



[edit on 21-4-2009 by badmedia]

Regarding the CNP, here's a little known fact from election 2008 - they vetted Palin prior to her being tapped for the GOP VP spot. Or should I say they signed off, because clearly she wasn't vetted thoroughly...

www.thenation.com...

Last week, while the media focused almost obsessively on the DNC's spectacle in Denver, the country's most influential conservatives met quietly at a hotel in downtown Minneapolis to get to know Sarah Palin. The assembled were members of the Council for National Policy, an ultra-secretive cabal that networks wealthy right-wing donors together with top conservative operatives to plan long-term movement strategy.

CNP members have included Tony Perkins, James Dobson, Grover Norquist, Tim LaHaye and Paul Weyrich. At a secret 2000 meeting of the CNP, George W. Bush promised to nominate only pro-life judges; in 2004, then-Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist told the group, "The destiny of the nation is on the shoulders of the conservative movement." This year, thanks to Sarah Palin's selection, the movement may have finally aligned itself behind the campaign of John McCain.

Though Dobson and Perkins reportedly attended the recent CNP meeting in Minneapolis, a full roster of guests would be nearly impossible to require. The CNP deliberately operates below the radar, going to excessive lengths to obscure its activities. According to official CNP policy, "The media should not know when or where we meet or who takes part in our programs before or after a meeting." Thus the CNP's Minneapolis gathering was free of reporters.

As for the future of the Religious Right and it's influence on the GOP, there is a huge divide: Those who are under 45 who want to pursue the conservative fiscal policies of the platform and mostly traditional family values with some room for modernity of thought with regard to homosexuality, abortion and marriage VS. the mostly older, fundamental, hard-line right including Evangelicals and Catholics.

It will take another twenty years to sort it out but, as a former Republican, I think it's safe to say that the GOP as it once was is dead, thanks to the Religious Right. However, the theory you pose about using their beliefs to manipulate this group to a political end is fascinating and rings true from my perspective.


[edit on 21/4/2009 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


But isn't that really more of a political gain that just a party? When you look at the 2 parties now and the 2 party system, we see what is supposed to be "mirror opposites" of each other. One the one hand we have democrats who sell themselves as being socially free, with big government economics, and then the republicans who sell themselves as being economically free, with not much social freedom.

Each of them sells themselves based on their side of freedom, and then points out the other side as being "evil" for the big government they want. And so we switch back and forth between the 2 parties, and all the while we keep the government each of them sets up. They get rid of the freedoms the other side wanted all the time, but find me a government program that have gotten rid of. A new program comes into place, it stays. Of all the government GWB added, did Obama get rid of any? No. Did GWB get rid of anything Clinton added? No.

Each party becomes "weak" at the right time. As both parties suck and do bad things, it's just a matter of pointing those things out at the right time. Under GWB, for 6 and 1/2 years you couldn't say anything bad at all about them or republicans. The democrats were considered the dead party. Suddenly the media shift changes, and then democrats come in and the republicans are the dead party.

In reality, Americans want both social freedom and economic freedom, but 3rd parties that want both are dealt with by the 2 party system. Thus we stick to voting for the "lesser of 2 evils", where the evil is based on the government that person wants to add.

In reality, the dead party is the party that wants both, and has been for over 100 years. Continually getting it's butt kicked by the "2 major parties" who are really just 1. Just look at how much the 2 agree when it comes to keeping anyone not in those 2 parties off the ballet etc.

Political spectrum is up and down, not left and right. Even though the up party actually represents the majority of americans(thus the huge amounts of apathy), it's the smallest party by far. Killed by the farse of 2 major parties.

So just wait, same thing will happen with democrats when they need more social government programs etc and they are done turning the economy. Then when all the government is built, we will be completely communist by default, although still called "free" by name.

No, you weren't simply stating your opinion. You were judging my heart, my status with God, which is something that only God himself can do.

yet you are free to tell people they are going to hell

It's the truth if someone hasn't accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. I'm not judging them. God has said that those that haven't become cleansed through Christ are doomed to destruction.

or should be killed or that you are justified in killing them

I never said that there are people that should be killed or that murdering someone is justified. All I said is that killing someone in war isn't murder and that some wars are justified. If killing in war was murder then, King David was a murderer for killing Goliath, the Israelites were murderers for killing people that they were at war against. God would've sinned by telling his people, in the Old Testament times, to go to war with certain groups of people. And God can't sin, can he?

As for the jews part, this just goes to show WHY you don't follow Jesus and why you don't understand him. If you followed Jesus then you were called a JEW.

Yes, the first Christians were Jews, but "Jew" wasn't a blanket statement for all the Christians. The first Genile Christians didn't call themselves Jews. The Jerusalem Council even said that Gentiles don't have to become a Jew to become part of the fold of Christ followers.

There was no such thing as christians in that time because Christianity is a NEW religion, with it's NEW testament, and it's NEW leaders.

Christian is a term for "little Christ" or "Christ follower" so, yes, there were Christians after the time of Christ. Christianity isn't a "new" religion either. It is the fulfillment of Judaism. So, if the Jews had known there religion, they would've followed Christ and accepted his reign when he offered it the first time. Do you know what the word "testament" used to mean? It's meaning today is totally different than it used to be. Testament originally meant "covenant". So, when a Christian says "Old Testament" or "New Testament" it's refering to the "Old Covenant" and the "New Covenant"--that new covenant, by the way, is in Christ's blood, and was foretold by the prophet Jeremiah. Christianity's only leader is Christ. He's the head of the church. Christ is my leader, not any ecclesiastical authority.

So while the verse may literally say "Jews", you are considered a "Jew". That you would even think it only literally means "jews" is just a sign of ignorance on the topic.

If you took the time to study the time period when John wrote Revelation, you would see that that particular church was being persecuted by Jews, or people that claimed to be. Members of their congregation were being killed by these "Jews". The Jews were the most fervant persecutors of the early church.

there is one glaring omission in this conversation of 'Christians'...

the basic point being 'Christians' have divorced themselves from
being anti-capitalist in an active way...

Christians from the start when they were but a few and considered a cult,
had disregard for money or accumulating wealth...as those were the tools of un-Christian pagan cultures...Christians were more favorable to trade, barter, giving, sharing, being humble & unwealthy...
all of which is contrary to Capitalism, but more oriented with Socialism
and perhaps Marxist communism...

no wonder Obama is touted as messianic,
the moral majority/Christian-right... is being transformed

Christians from the start when they were but a few and considered a cult, had disregard for money or accumulating wealth

That's not quite true. Ananias and Saphira were rich and there is no reason to doubt that they weren't Christian. In that episode, Peter even said that they didn't have to sell their land. That shows that the way that the early Christians lived was a choice and not a requirement. It wasn't forced like it would be/is under socialism/Marxism/Communism.

There was also Lydia, the seller of purple dye. Purple die was expensive back then and she was probably rich. John Mark's mother also owned a home--which was something back in those days, especially for a woman!

The early church was concerned that everyone was being taken care of, which can still be done under capitalism.

no wonder Obama is touted as messianic,
the moral majority/Christian-right... is being transformed

Are you implying that Christians in the US are regarding Obama are messianic? If so, that's a total change from when I left back in November!

[edit on 4/21/2009 by octotom]

Badmedia- I don't know what your deal is but you are one of the most backwards in your thinking I have come across. I will be praying for you and hoping that you get your mind right.

On the issue of speaking in tongues, the revelation of prophecy comes to a true prophet in this way. There is a clear distinction made by Paul between the type of message that is received to be translated and the type of message that is for personal edification, which then becomes prophecy when translated by the person who received it.

I first received the Holy Spirit around a year and a half ago at a miracle service following a 21 day fast. I can tell you that the first experience was simply amazing but it has only gotten sweeter since.
To explain the experience is not that easy but I guess it would be like when you call the tech expert and he remotely takes control of your computer. Know what I mean? You can see the mouse pointer moving around and programs opening but you are not controlling it?
The experience of tongues is your own inner man having a conversation with God that only the inner man can understand at first. A prophetic message does not always come afterwords because sometimes the inner man needs direction but when prophecy does come it is greatest gift of all!

During the experience it is like the mind is blocked out and it has no control over the tongue. It is for lack of a better term a possession. God says that His people are a precious possession all to Himself and only when you give it all to the Lord can He move in you like He has in me.

When you get what I have, you will do what I do!

As for the prophecy of another false flag "terror" attack, I will let history do the talking. It is coming and it is coming soon because the Day of the Lord is here! Amen!

How can you guys type (with a straight face I'm assuming) things like:

"You know, it has always been amazing to me that Jesus taught peace and forgiveness, yet, the "Christian Right" always seem quick to use military power." SpeakerofTruth

and

"What war would Jesus support?" badmedia

Surely Jesus supports and chooses sides in the war in heaven and since Jesus leads a Huge warring army at his return, you can't sugar-coat his ministry. So make no mistake about it - he picks sides.

Look into it. He told his disciples to take a sword with them, when they went to minister to the different towns because he knew he was sending them out to the wolves. He aslo said not to let wars and the rumours of wars trouble you because they must happen.

If you prefer peace to war, so be it, but it's not for any of us to say what is considered a righteous or unrighteous act. Jesus said he came to not bring peace but a sword, fire & war, I promise you this - there is righteousness to be found in a lesson here. You may not understand it now or be able to see past it but that is why God's ways are higher than our own.

Unity is ultimately found in division and that is why when two sides make up, the power of God is exemplified and mountains can be moved.

Originally posted by octotom
No, you weren't simply stating your opinion. You were judging my heart, my status with God, which is something that only God himself can do.

No, judging someone involves punishing them for it. I did nothing to punish you. I am however 100% free and correct to make judgments on actions and in my judgment, those actions are bad.

Now, deciding "you are right" and justified enough to go to war with and kill other people, now that is judging someone.

It's the truth if someone hasn't accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. I'm not judging them. God has said that those that haven't become cleansed through Christ are doomed to destruction.

First off, what you say is "truth", is a lie. Jesus even says so.

John 14:24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Second, if I am judging you, then you are judging them. I agree, you aren't judging them, you are giving your opinion. Just as I said, if you thought what I said was truth, then you would call it one thing, but because you believe it is not true, you call it another. Even though the actual action is the same. Hypocrisy.

I never said that there are people that should be killed or that murdering someone is justified. All I said is that killing someone in war isn't murder and that some wars are justified. If killing in war was murder then, King David was a murderer for killing Goliath, the Israelites were murderers for killing people that they were at war against. God would've sinned by telling his people, in the Old Testament times, to go to war with certain groups of people. And God can't sin, can he?

So, are you saying that because God told someone to do something way back then, it means you are able to do so whenever you want?

Or are you saying god told you and these people to go to war?

Do you also kill the child who swears at the parent? It's also in there, must be right huh? See Jesus also dealt with people like you back then, and he also said exactly what I did. If you really did those things because you thought god said to, or because it was right, then you would also uphold those others too. But as you do not uphold those like the one about the child, it just goes to show that you do not actually care at all what the bible said back then, you are just using it to justify your actions.

Yes, the first Christians were Jews, but "Jew" wasn't a blanket statement for all the Christians. The first Genile Christians didn't call themselves Jews. The Jerusalem Council even said that Gentiles don't have to become a Jew to become part of the fold of Christ followers.

As I said, Jesus never calls anyone Christian, he talks among Jews. Period. You pretty much just proved that yourself as you say you don't have to be a "jew" now, but did back then. Because those who followed were jews. Thus just because it says "jew" doesn't mean it only applies to "jews".

Christian is a term for "little Christ" or "Christ follower" so, yes, there were Christians after the time of Christ. Christianity isn't a "new" religion either. It is the fulfillment of Judaism. So, if the Jews had known there religion, they would've followed Christ and accepted his reign when he offered it the first time. Do you know what the word "testament" used to mean? It's meaning today is totally different than it used to be. Testament originally meant "covenant". So, when a Christian says "Old Testament" or "New Testament" it's refering to the "Old Covenant" and the "New Covenant"--that new covenant, by the way, is in Christ's blood, and was foretold by the prophet Jeremiah. Christianity's only leader is Christ. He's the head of the church. Christ is my leader, not any ecclesiastical authority.

I agree that if they had understood their religion they would have accepted Jesus, but Christianity is a new religion, in the name of Christ, formed by politicians through the political appeal of Paul, who accept Paul where as they reject Jesus. This church is founded by the authorities of this world, and then proceeds to prosecute anyone who didn't agree in the process, while deciding what texts and so forth are "acceptable".

When Christians sit around looking for the anti-christ religion that is going to fulfill this role, I just kind of giggle after I stop myself from gagging. They look everywhere but their own religion. If you didn't go along, you were killed. Not to mention crusades.

Your religion will travel the seas for a single convert. Apparently that is only bad when a "jew" did it right? Jesus was only talking about jews there, not christians? Please. Everything Jesus says about the pharisees and such is true of christianity.

If you took the time to study the time period when John wrote Revelation, you would see that that particular church was being persecuted by Jews, or people that claimed to be. Members of their congregation were being killed by these "Jews". The Jews were the most fervant persecutors of the early church.

Does it occur to you that it was the actions of those people he is talking about, rather than the title? That you look at peoples actions(fruits) to decide how they are, rather than the title?

Originally posted by JesusSaves2008
Badmedia- I don't know what your deal is but you are one of the most backwards in your thinking I have come across. I will be praying for you and hoping that you get your mind right.

You are right, you don't know.

On the issue of speaking in tongues, the revelation of prophecy comes to a true prophet in this way. There is a clear distinction made by Paul between the type of message that is received to be translated and the type of message that is for personal edification, which then becomes prophecy when translated by the person who received it.

Numbers 12: 6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

I experienced this, and I had no idea the bible even said such until long after when someone was kind enough to point it out to me after I described my experience.

Paul is anti-christ, the false shepherd and so forth that comes after Jesus. He's a fake. He proves this in Acts when he describes his experience 3 different ways. Each way is not like the first. It's hear, did not see, heard, did not see and so on. All the while, none of his experiences were true at all in how it said to happen even if he had gotten his story straight.

Not to mention him appealing to politicians and power, continuously doing whatever to gain power and influence. Everything Jesus turns down, Paul takes.

I first received the Holy Spirit around a year and a half ago at a miracle service following a 21 day fast. I can tell you that the first experience was simply amazing but it has only gotten sweeter since.
To explain the experience is not that easy but I guess it would be like when you call the tech expert and he remotely takes control of your computer. Know what I mean? You can see the mouse pointer moving around and programs opening but you are not controlling it?
The experience of tongues is your own inner man having a conversation with God that only the inner man can understand at first. A prophetic message does not always come afterwords because sometimes the inner man needs direction but when prophecy does come it is greatest gift of all!

The only thing I know that sounds like such is when I meet the father. The father asked me only a single question. That was during my vision in which my consciousness was completely pulled from my body "instantly" and then when I was in the vision he asked me that question, but it was a deeper part of me that answered, and that part was like watching the mouse click but not controlling it. Then I was back in my body after a little viewing of myself the next day.

During the experience it is like the mind is blocked out and it has no control over the tongue. It is for lack of a better term a possession. God says that His people are a precious possession all to Himself and only when you give it all to the Lord can He move in you like He has in me.

Sounds satanic to me, and nothing like my experiences with the father. Never was I "possessed" by anything, as the father is always within. In fact, when I tried to give my will to the father, it was not taken. Instead, I was given wisdom and understanding so that I could see for myself and by that I do his will.

I obviously can't say what your experience is one way or another, but it is nothing like mine.

When you get what I have, you will do what I do!

Sorry, what have you done and what do you do? As far as I can tell, you are just using replacements for understanding and wisdom.

As for the prophecy of another false flag "terror" attack, I will let history do the talking. It is coming and it is coming soon because the Day of the Lord is here! Amen!

This is what you call prophecy? Are you kidding me? This is like saying "You will sleep this week". This isn't prophecy at all. Such is STATUS QUO, just like going to sleep is. It has been done over and over and over and is how every single war we get involved in is started. WW1, WW2 and on and on.

But let me get this straight. You get the holy spirit who takes over your body, and then shows you death and destruction. And it's great? No thanks, I think I'll stick with the father I know who gives me wisdom and understanding.

Sorry, but I am not impressed. In fact, I'm pretty sure you are a fake.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
How can you guys type (with a straight face I'm assuming) things like:

"You know, it has always been amazing to me that Jesus taught peace and forgiveness, yet, the "Christian Right" always seem quick to use military power." SpeakerofTruth

and

"What war would Jesus support?" badmedia

Surely Jesus supports and chooses sides in the war in heaven and since Jesus leads a Huge warring army at his return, you can't sugar-coat his ministry. So make no mistake about it - he picks sides.

Look into it. He told his disciples to take a sword with them, when they went to minister to the different towns because he knew he was sending them out to the wolves. He aslo said not to let wars and the rumours of wars trouble you because they must happen.

If you prefer peace to war, so be it, but it's not for any of us to say what is considered a righteous or unrighteous act. Jesus said he came to not bring peace but a sword, fire & war, I promise you this - there is righteousness to be found in a lesson here. You may not understand it now or be able to see past it but that is why God's ways are higher than our own.

Unity is ultimately found in division and that is why when two sides make up, the power of God is exemplified and mountains can be moved.

Cool, so lets take 2 men who rape kids, and see which side Jesus is on. Just because you have 2 sides doesn't mean those are the only possible sides, nor does it mean someone will support either of those sides.

In fact, as it turns out, both sides can be wrong, and when dealing with hypocrites that is usually the case.

Because that is how hypocrites work, it's also how "satan" gets people of this world to do his bidding. Because people in wars and such only look at their own selfish point of view/perspective. They do not look at the other side of things. 1 side says - you attacked me, I attack you back. Other side says - you attacked me, I attack you back. And on and on it goes with such hypocrisy until one of them takes the advice of Jesus and looks at it from both sides. Then when you look at things from the other side, you can see the beam in your own eye, remove it and see clearly to remove it from the other side.

Anymore morally bankrupt and intellectually lacking arguments you guys want to make while trying to justify your wars and mistakes?

Badmedia,
To who do you refer to when you speak of the "father?" The only Father I know of carries a capital F. I find it amazing.... If you search the scriptures you will find the Lord speaking of people just like yourself.... yet you still do not get it.