SEAL report on what realy happened!

Dog, I really don't know why you seem to have a weed up your butt over this, but if I were to list military organizations that were efficient, effective, and well-led, I can assure you that based on historical record, the French military has been rolled more than a ten-Euro Parisian nightcat, and they wouldn't be in my top fifty.

Command is a function of trust, and that trust cuts both ways. How does one gain trust? A proven track record goes a long way. But our CIC doesn't have any track record.

He left a crack in the rules of engagement that the local commander took a liberal view of, and accomplished what could have been done many, many hours earlier.

You refer to his military advisors? Are you serious? Since the creation of the Joint Chiefs, we in the US haven't won a single war. Like they know what the hell they're doing!

The very reason for our limited successes in the past sixty years is the foolish chain of command, with foolish restrictions.

This counters every principle of warfare since time began, and the Masters of Warfare all say the same thing. The goal is victory, not persistence.

Talk is another word for hesitation. Hesitation is another word for coward. Cowardice is another word for prey.

And prey is another word for dead.

Let the SOB talk all he wants in Washington. But give the local commanders the freedom to accomplish their mission.

They are actually very good at what they do.

I sure would not enjoy four straight days at sea on a small skiff with no shelter from the sun, forced to remain bound and stationary at gunpoint.

If all my captors wanted was money, and my employers who had me go into harms way weren’t broke I sure would appreciate if they just paid my captors so I could get on my way and on with my life without the risk of being a casualty in the process.

However if my employers weren’t going to pay and there was a military option since hour one, and nothing in the course of those four days changed the effectiveness of the outcome I sure would appreciate someone just shooting my captors so I could get on with my live and way.

As usual with these threads everyone misses the human element. That there are real victims here beyond a dubious President of the United States reputation or U.S. Navy Sailors frustrations and frustrations with him, there was a guy who had to spend four days in hellacious conditions wondering if each moment was going to be his last.

Maybe Obama and Obama supporters will become more likable when the Presidency gets back to being the defender of the people, instead of needing the people to defend it and him?

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by spec_ops_wannabe

 

As in the OP showed his/her partizan hand making his/her story less credible imho.

Not saying it isn't true though.

How does believing in the TRUTH that you speak of, make it any less credible ?

2 lines

Originally posted by Alora
Dang, I must have missed it when Obama took all the credit for the SEALS work. Does someone have a link for that?

When you take credit for a job you did at work, do you go around telling people outside of work about it?

The credit taking probably is behind closed doors.

Originally posted by dooper
Dog, I really don't know why you seem to have a weed up your butt over this ...

Very simple, I find it both risible and dangerous when people make dubious conclusions, based on shaky premises, with lack of actual information, and based on partizan bullcrap.

It's not a big deal, it's just what it is.

But please, by all means carry on, don't let me stop any of you who wish to pick apart a victory.

Nice to see so many "deciders" on the board.

[edit on 20 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

 

Ok let's backtrack a little here and stop simply regurgitating the right wing blog talking points.

The OP is asserting that he/she has inside information on what went down.

Can we all agree that without evidence to substantiate this claim it is nothing more than words on a screen?

My only point was that by bringing political commentary into an OP which is supposedly about a chain of event does not help one's credibility, but it doesn't change the fact that such a claim has to be substantiated.

Um, in case you haven't yet noticed...

There's hardly ANY "substantiated" posts on ATS, why is this one any different? Almost everything here is opinion , second hand accounts or sketchy "evidence" based

Just because the OP introduced his/her own political bent doesn't make it invalid, if it did 95% of all posts on ATS would deserve the same treatment.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing one way or another.
My feelings about ANY political decision would tend to agree with the OP story as posted, regardless of dem/rep.

and by the way a chain of evidence is a chain of evidence regardless of the credibilty factor. Being Blue red or purple doesn't make it any less, or any more truthful. If being less partisan helps you "believe" someone's chain of evidence then I feel sorry for your one sided view in life.

There is as much truth on MSMBC as there is on FOX, you just have to learn to weed out the descriptive text.
("terrorist act" vs. "man made disaster")

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Dog, I very much admire your responses and very much like to read them, although we'll not agree on every issue.

When Zindo provided this postulation, for one who was in the military, one with combat experience in special ops, one who has seen this hesitation crap more times than I can count, then this actually made perfect sense!

What our CIC's have been reluctant to do is to make a decision, and then trust those on site to make it so.

These guys on site are far from stupid. Far from reckless. They are the closest things to supermen in the world. They don't live in the same world as the rest of us, and have capabilities, even as men, that are very closely held secrets.

SEALS don't need days to get something done. SEALS only need to be on site. Once they arrive, **** starts to happen real quick.

These are highly specialized surgical tools. But these tools walk, talk, swim, fly, dive through water and air, and they do nothing but practice these skills. Or use them.

The delay alone smelled completely wrong. The fact that they took their shots and it was over instantly indicated that they did nothing that probably couldn't have been done much earlier.

(You don't suddenly develop shooting skills like that in the course of 24 hours.)

So the commander, using that one little phrase, probably pulling his hair out at the restrictions and delays, took responsibility himself, and made the call.

That's all it takes. Someone with the testes to make the call, take the heat if it goes wrong, but knowing that he did make a firm decision.

Often it goes well. Sometimes, rarely, it goes wrong. But you can't sit on your thumb, rotating, while hoping for a miracle to drop out of the sky.

You make your miracles. And no one does it better than our Special Ops personnel, including, and especially in this environment - the U.S. Navy SEALS.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


It would really help, if you had put within the original post, that this was in regards to the Pirate Incident in Somalia.

Some people would never be clued into what your post was about otherwise.

I figured it out, only because I've read enough on the S.E.A.L.'s over my lifespan.

For the non-military minded individuals on ATS, here are some of the definitions of the original post.

BHO - Barack Hussein Obama

DEVGRU - United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group

ROE - Rules of Engagement

Before some Obama supporter goes off on me, about the "Barack Hussein Obama" there, I'm only clarifying his full name usage, from the original post.

I did not vote for Obama nor McCain, I voted for Garfield, as in the lasagna stealing cat.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Thanks for the info. And tell your son thanks for his service. Former squid myself and would soon be retired if I had stuck it out. What the nasayers on here don't understand the best information comes directly from those involved not some "legit news source." I spent a lot of time around the SEALS in San Diego and almost tried out myself in boot. But I was married with a kid in so I just couldn't pull the trigger knowing I may leave them behind someday. Those group of guys are something else. BZ Seals!

Originally posted by Ciphor

Wow, that was a great STORY. Not the least bit true...but a great STORY none the less OP!!

My bestfriend as well as my GF's sisters BF were both on the bainbridge when this went down. (I look at the bainbridge every day on my way to work btw =P) Now I haven't talked to anyone yet personally, but I've spoken to my girlfriends sister who has spoken to her BF and he pretty much confirmed what was on the news to be pretty much the truth. Guy jumped out of the boat, the seals took there opportunity and fired rounds.

She said he said it happened pretty quickly. It was like they all saw the guy jump out of boat and then like 2 seconds later the pirates were falling over.

You have a lot of audacity to demean the OP and then tell an outright lie!

1. You can't "look at the Bainbridge," unless you are in the mediterranean Sea, or Atlantic or Indian Oceans, its current deployment. DDG 96 is on 6-month Mediterranean deployment.

2. Captain Phillips was not rescued when he "jumped out of the boat." U.S.N. could not advance under fire and with their ROEs, and Phillips was recaptured. His "escape attempt" occurred just after Bainbridge arrived on scene. Bainbridge was on scene over 48 hours (after a 20 hour cruise to the site) and towing the lifeboat in heavy seas when the SEALs used the "imminent danger" excuse to attack the Somalis.

Reported around the world just as set out in 1. and 2., above, without regard to BHO's participation or lack thereof. There are others ATS threads on this as well.

Do you really think you can post an obvious falsehood and NOT be called on it?

Do you gain something from attacking the OP as a liar and then backing it up with your own"story?"

There is no doubt that Phillips was recaptured when he jumped from the lifeboat. Completely undisputed anywhere (except in YOUR POST) that he was re-captured and held an additional 24+ hours before the SEALs took decisive action on their own.

Deny ignorance!

jw

[edit on 20-4-2009 by jdub297]

[edit on 20-4-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Very simple, I find it both risible and dangerous when people make dubious conclusions, based on shaky premises, with lack of actual information, and based on partizan bullcrap.

It's not a big deal, it's just what it is.

But please, by all means carry on, don't let me stop any of you who wish to pick apart a victory.

Nice to see so many "deciders" on the board.

[edit on 20 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Please stop posting. You whine and complain about partisanship, yet you are the most annoying partisan in this entire thread.

Originally posted by Riposte
Please stop posting.

Mmm I was until you came up with the following gem:

You whine and complain about partisanship, yet you are the most annoying partisan in this entire thread.

Is that so, where did I do that?

Unless you call being objective being partizan that is ...

Then yes I''m partizan to facts

Thanks for trolling.

[edit on 20 Apr 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

 

Ok let's backtrack a little here and stop simply regurgitating the right wing blog talking points.

The OP is asserting that he/she has inside information on what went down.

Can we all agree that without evidence to substantiate this claim it is nothing more than words on a screen?

My only point was that by bringing political commentary into an OP which is supposedly about a chain of event does not help one's credibility, but it doesn't change the fact that such a claim has to be substantiated.

IMO, one of the dumbest posts I've seen on ATS - and I've seen a few.

Just what exactly do you expect by way of proof, the name, rank, and serial number of any or all of the people involved?

Don't say something even dumber by saying yes, that's what you expect ...


Tried to help you out, but you managed to do it anyway ...

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

[edit on 4/20/2009 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
IMO, one of the dumbest posts I've seen on ATS - and I've seen a few.

Oh noes, don't say that, it really hurts my feelings.

Just what exactly do you expect by way of proof, the name rank and serial number of any or all of the people involved?

Expectations are the building blocks of disappointment.

Don't say something even dumber by saying yes, that's what you expect ...

I'll try not to, pleasing you means the world to me.

Sorry I didn't have any food for you today, better luck next time.

Americans??

Pathetic!!

I see theres a lot of John wayne types posting here, with there Glocks/Magnums on their hips and their camo gear at the ready(for their weekend warrior escapades...)

All I will say is THANK GOD, if ever i am held by pirates off the coast of Africa,my life will not be in the hands of people who have posted on this thread...and the Capt. would nodoubt feel the same way if he were to ever read the negative drivel being spoken here...

AS said previously, the French had a go and lives were lost....
Bet you $10 the Capt and his family are extremely grateful that the siege was handled professionally, resulting in an optimum outcome, rather than the French method (which is the same tactic lots of unpatriotic Republikans on this very thread have asserted should have been used)ie.Go in guns blazin' and hope for the best.....
...too much tv boys...far too much!!

Three snipers, three bullets, three dead Somali pirates

But Somalia's pirate command vowed revenge, raising concerns for 230 other foreign hostages currently being held.

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them," said Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate from the Somali pirate town of Eyl.

"[America] is now our No 1 enemy."

And in an apparently unrelated incident, mortar shells were fired at the airport in Mogadishu, Somalia's capital, as a US congressman, Donald Payne, took off after a one-day visit with government officials. He was unhurt and his aircraft left safely.

In the past, no hostage has been seriously injured or killed by the pirates, but now there are fears that may change after the high-stakes US operation. The threats came as the Americans gave full details of the rescue mission which was launched on Sunday afternoon when three days of negotiations to free Mr Phillips, the captain of the Maersk Alabama, had broken down.

There are consequences for having an itchy trigger finger, especially for a country with the stature like the US. (No wonder I consider the far right to be far more dangerous than the far left).

If every president (including the previous ones) knows what will be the consequence if they don't order the kill, they would order the kill. But if you're not sure, don't do it, you have to try another route first.

As for Barrack taking the credit for this, well, I'll let you figure that one out yourself.

Ps: Those SEALs sure are very accurate, aren't they?

Ohhhh yeah. That itchy trigger finger is now making them more dangerous. Myachingass.

The reason these pirates are well funded and bold and there are now so many of them is because of the payoffs.

You want a worse pirate situation? Keep up the pansy-ass practice of negotiations and payoffs.

You want to cure the pirate problem?

I've never, ever, seen a single dead SOB bother anyone ever again.

But, that's just me.

Hey...John "dooper" Wayne...are you a comedian or something??

Cos I am most certainly laughing at your posts...

Now back to reality....

Would your Rambo -like aura be somewhat subdued if it was your sister\wife\daughter\son who was in the Capt's shoes, or would you still expect your precious Seals to go in, guns blazin' without first attempting negotiations??

Common sense tells me you wouldnt want to risk the potential for human error, which, as in the French incident, resulted in civilian death......especially given its your wifes life at stake...US SEALS or otherwise....

Putting up your tough guy personna here at ATS is, at best laughable, and at worst, hilarious!!

reply to post by benoni


Benoni, I write just to amuse you, so if it's working, then you're welcome. I've never tried stand-up, but hell, all I'd have to do is explain or repeat some of your positions on things, and I'd have them rolling in the aisle!

To answer your question, I damned well would tell them to do whatever they could, but under no circumstances, do not let that boat with my loved one leave.

You seem to think that reason works with those who would use force for personal gain. They use brute force against the unarmed. Folks like you, with thinking like that, is exactly what causes and encourages so many of these problems in the world.

Let's see if I have this correct: The Benini Way is to carry a tube of lube on your person at all times, and practice bending at the waist. This is why some folks maybe need to stick to the cooking threads, and engage others with their wisdom on interior decorating.

Unlike you, I've had to pull the trigger. Had to. Not by choice. Had to. Not elected to. Had to. Your pizzpoor comparison of John Wayne is a lame comparison as Wayne was an actor, and these are the real thing.

This had everything to do with resolution.

Appropriate, timely, and measured.

Enabled by preparation, capability, and skill.

The boat could not
'leave" as you put it because it was attached to the Bainbridge....do you even know the story??
You say you would suggest to the Seals to "do what they could.."...this is what they did...what they could....

Comedian? I was wrong....

Born on the 1st of April perhaps?? Thats probably closer...

And, no thanks, told you once, tell you again....I dont want to borrow your lube....thanks again...not my thing, but hey, whatever floats your boat(no pun intended...)



Yeah...bet you have pulled a few triggers mate....

So, all was well that ended well...pirates dead, everyone freed.......

Sounds like mission accomplished....
...so why the negativity??

Surely a true patriot would not even attempt to bring their President into it...

You right wingers are never happy.

[edit on 20-4-2009 by benoni]