Creepy conclusion: We are alone!

Mike,
I agree with you. Just because a person sees a UFO doesn't mean it is proof of 'aliens', (God, I hate that term). But for the individual who experiences seeing a UFO land on the ground, a non-human intelligent being exits the UFO and interacts with them, re-enters the UFO, and it flies off, well it should be sufficient proof for them, but only on an personal level.

Logician Magician,
Yes it would be more realistic to say that most UFO/ET evidence have been confirmed hoaxes or mis-identification and the rest have not been confirmed hoaxes, (I still don't agree with that premise). But that is not what you said nor implied.

... The case of ET is lighted with the light of lies, skewed interviews, made up quotes, doctored/faked footage, hoaxes, etc... That's where everyone looks.

Implying that all things pertaining to cases of ETs is hoaxed/mis-identified, etc.? Thank you for correcting that premise.

But it would also be more realistic to say that not only have they not been confirmed hoaxes, the rest have not been confirmed to be real, for you. It's very real to those who have experienced it, in some cases to the extent of accute PTSD in normal healthy individuals who haven't experienced any other significant and/or perpetual trauma in their lives.

To the creator of this thread... lol! This is what ATS will do to most believers; turn them into hard core skeptics. I bet you wrote what you wrote to see if someone changes your mindset back to believing? I am sure you are just tired of the endless debunking of useless footage brought up here on ATS. Well let me tell you something, think what you want, become a skeptic, a non believer, let reality pass you by, let them lie to you with another lie. It is your head that they are messing with (better yours than mine right?). Places like this here are for entertainment purposes only.


Let’s see why there is no progress when talking on such boards. For starters, we would have to look at most of the footage brought up here to ATS. Its bunk, the person who posts it has a good feeling it is bunk but will post it anyway because of the attention they get on their threads. This in turn gets debunked and we go on to the next thread. The next guy does the same and the other too, this leads us with a whole load of bunk UFO videos and pics, not counting with the hoaxers and the disinformants (Oh... so many of them here), and the average skeptic which loves to torture the believer to display his/her above than normal mental power and intelligence. In short, nothing positive will ever come out of conspiracy sites and you will only get confused even worse than when you actually believed. It's Cointelpro, it is how it works. The thing is they can lie, and lie, and think they know best until boom! The truth comes out. Till then, enjoy the craziness of the conspiracy sites.

UFOs (Flying Saucers, Triangles, you name it...) Are probably of extraterrestrial design. If all UFOs, Flying Machines, Saucers, Triangles, were U.S. planes, and we had them since 1947 then why did we send the U2 in 1960 on that mission who got shot down by Russia and almost sparked WWIII? Why not send a Silent UFO that flies hundreds of miles per minute up into the atmosphere, stay silent, and totally motionless thousands of miles up in the soviet airspace, capture the images necessary and then zoom out in blink of an eye if spotted? Why send out rocket technology to spy in cold war era when we had UFO? Yes, if we had this highly sophisticated antigravity ultra silent and super light speed technology why send the U2 and have it shot down by the Russians and risk it all? Why goddamn it!?!? Why!? I’ll tell you why, because the best thing we had at that time that even resembled a UFO was the Avrocar and the Flying Wings, and SRs that’s it, those were the super stealth flying machines of the day. Lot’s of crap airplanes that go nowhere near the speeds or other capabilities such as silent flight, noted with UFOs.

In short, I know that they are real because of my experiences with seeing such technology back then. There is no way of me helping you, or trying to convince you that they are indeed extraterrestrial. But the time will come when this information will be forced out. Were the people will no longer have to rely on stories and grainy pics and videos. In the meanwhile, if you cannot deal with the mental games being played, I suggest you sideline and let others with more fight to take care of business for you. Little by little disclosure is taking place, give it a chance. All good things take time, and a lie cannot last for ever. Only time will tell, and if I were you I would enjoy the ride, live learn and be happy. Don’t let the stress of UFOs and secrecy destroy your thoughts and life.


[edit on 21-4-2009 by The Coward]

First off, I'd like to start out by saying "Hahahahahahahaha"

Second, I'd like to rebuke as many negative-confirmation statements you made about ETs as possible.

* There is no hard evidence of alien proof

(Unfortunately, you are correct. There is no "hard" evidence that ETs exist open to the eyes of the general public, just like there is no "hard" evidence that global warming exists, according to numerous officials.)

* If Alien exist as describes above, where are they?

It's not hard to find out, if you look a little. en.wikipedia.org...

* If the US goverment is hiding it what about other governments of the world? China, Russia, Brasil, Germany, French, India, Pakistan, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy more than 202 countries what about them?It is impossible that none of them releases info about ET's.

The US government has disclosed information in numerous cases about ETs... do some research. Start here. www.youtube.com...
Other countries:
Canada www.realufos.net...
France, England, Belgium, Chile, Peru, Iran and the US
www.gather.com...

* If they existed then NASA would have found it. But still they didnt find it.

After NASA found Zeta 2 Reticulia (Home of the "Greys") they later turned around and said they didn't. www.abovetopsecret.com...

* If you saying the impossible, that Nasa is not telling the truth, then what about other space agencies around the world. European Space Agencies, Russian, Chinese, Indian and other. It is impossible that they are also not telling the truth.

Read above post. Yea.... it's impossible for NASA to lie... Just like it's impossible for George W. Bush to be lying about 9/11, WOMDs in Iraq, and Torture.

You like to use the word "impossible" a lot. Well, I'd like to bring it up to you that according to the Drake Equation... the chances of there NOT being other life in the universe is the only thing "impossible" here. en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe you should research these things harder before coming to an ultimate conclusion. Youtube doesn't count.

Originally posted by thegagefather

I'd like to bring it up to you that according to the Drake Equation... the chances of there NOT being other life in the universe is the only thing "impossible" here. en.wikipedia.org...

The universe is a big place. As someone noted "maybe the biggest."

Correct me if I'm wrong, we have been talking about confirmation of actual visitation of other intelligent life to our planet. Not whether they exist.

The Drake Equation definition you link to does not encompass this.

Because something possibly exists does not mean we have had direct contact.

Having a lottery ticket for a draw with a guaranteed winner doesn't mean you win.

Maybe they're watching and don't think its worth spending a few thousand years just to drop by.



Mike









[edit on 22-4-2009 by mmiichael]

Are we alone?? NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Trust me. Take look at word host. I believe they are in earth and heavens. They (Deceviers aka Liar Liar) tell us what to hear. They (Deceviers aka Liar Liar) tell us what to see. We are not Robots. We are Human Beings! Believe in your eyes and your ears! If you dont believe. It's your choice.

Genesis 2:1
Parrellel Translations.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Heaven and earth and everything in them were finished.

King James Bible
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

American King James Version
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

American Standard Version
And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Bible in Basic English
And the heaven and the earth and all things in them were complete.

Douay-Rheims Bible
So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the furniture of them.

Darby Bible Translation
And the heavens and the earth and all their host were finished.

English Revised Version
And the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

World English Bible
The heavens and the earth were finished, and all their vast array.

Young's Literal Translation
And the heavens and the earth are completed, and all their host;




[edit on 22-4-2009 by DeafRaz]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by DeafRaz]

'It says that Flying disks were classified millitary projects and that all the sightings people see around the world most of them are real. But all those are of earthly vehicles. There are NO ET's. The Millitary purposly made the story of aliens to hide their projects. And we are all falling into this crap. You believe of all tose races and all the other crap of the Gov. Comm on. Use your sense . We are living with 6 billion people not just the US, Such a conspiracy is impossible to keep.'

Excuse me Butthead!! But UFO's have been seen for hundreds and thousands of years. Your saying all UFO's over time are government projects? That's impossible. Yes the US have classified projects. And yes some have been misidentified as UFO's. I saw a UFO last year (2008) and there ain't no way it was a classified project in disguise of a very large UFO. My sighting was backed up by a fighter jet chasing it. It moved very fast in the blink of an eye. And it was big too. At least 20 times the size of the fighter jet before it disappeared. I know they are ET vehicles.

Get back to your cleaning cupboard in the Pentagon.

I hope this isn't too far off topic...it does relate.

About two years ago, and for various reasons, I changed my mind-set about the "unknown". Instead of saying "that can't be...it doesn't make sense"...I converted to "that could be...unless I can figure how it isn't possible". In short...believe any and all theories are possible, until proven otherwise.

What an amazing world this is when you don't simply dismiss something because "there is no proof". It is our requirements for proof that have destroyed the magic and wonder that society used to enjoy. And it is that same requirement that makes God less than likely...destroyed unicorns...and erased magic.

I want to live in a world where there are undiscovered creatures...where there may be visitors from space...where people may be able to see the future. Don't you?

In short..."is what you call your reality so much better than what you call my fantasy? Are you happier believing in nothing...rather than leaving the possibility for something? Do you really think that you are so close to God that you know, and understand everything...or fully understand anything?" Not me...I have a lot to learn...so much so, I don't even know what I don't know.

I don't think anyone reasonable denies that there could be intelligent life out there somewhere in the universe. We just don't know for sure yet.

There are unidentified flying objects and records of things being seen that we can't explain. The operative word is unidentified.

A sub-culture has developed around UFOs, and a whole sub-industry has developed feeding speculation and fueling it with invention. New accounts show up regularly of visitations from aliens, communication, abductions. They don’t stand up well in further investigations. It has gotten to the point where we have unexplained sightings and stories mixed in with unverfiable information on the subject that is often pure fantasy. We don't know the US government is hiding aliens at a military base. We don't really know there are greys coming from a certain star system and that they are hostile.

This is where the antagonism sets in, and people go overboard in their defensiveness.
I have the right to say to anyone with a difficult to accept claim “OK, prove it to me.”

No one is calling UFO advocates liars when they limit their claims to what is documented satisfactorily. But when speculation and fantasy starts being mixed in, people ask for further substantiation.


Mike

Originally posted by Flux8

But it would also be more realistic to say that not only have they not been confirmed hoaxes, the rest have not been confirmed to be real, for you. It's very real to those who have experienced it, in some cases to the extent of accute PTSD in normal healthy individuals who haven't experienced any other significant and/or perpetual trauma in their lives.

Yes, they are real for those who have experienced it.. and so are hallucinations, like jumping away because you think you've seen a snake when all it ever was was a garden hose or seeing the shadow of a tree move and thinking it is something else.

That doesn't make it real at all though.

It seems as if all the arguments for the existence of UFOs are the exact same arguments that point to their improbability.

reply to post by UFOexisist


So, way to go proving that they don't exist! We can finally put this debate to rest.

Are you seriously using the lack of proof of their existence, as proof that they don't exist? How very narrow minded of you.

Of the billions and billions of stars, within billions and billions of galaxies, you think ours is the only one with a planet that supports life? You're not that special. Look, while it may one day be proven that there is intelligent life out there, it can NEVER be proven that there isn't.

Originally posted by logician magician
Yes, they are real for those who have experienced it.. and so are hallucinations, like jumping away because you think you've seen a snake when all it ever was was a garden hose or seeing the shadow of a tree move and thinking it is something else.

That doesn't make it real at all though.

Well, using that reasoning how do you know you are not hallucinating this entire thread? You could be sitting in the middle of a street mumbling to yourself naked for all of non-hallucinated reality's sake. In order to get around our existences we have to accept some things as a given, sure, but it is not proof of our perceived reality, it's only models of reality. Do you know all the variables of the universe/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?

How can you give sound advice like this? Are you employed with nasa? to give such a bold thread like this is like saying all previous races that have depictions of entities have drank from the punch bowl? thats alot of punch drunk people i guess, so you must be the only one normal

Are you kidding me? I can't believe you think that. Of course the ET's are more intelligent than us. You think that humans are the most intelligent race? Uh, no! Even some animals are smarter than us. The only thing that humans are good for is reasoning, but even some of us can't do that. ET's have been there way before us. I mean the Great Flood was brought upon from ET's, specifically The Greys (I think that's how you spell it). I have one last thing to say: Keep an open mind! If you close your mind up and start to believe the lies you will be missing out on the truth!

Originally posted by Flux8

Originally posted by logician magician
Yes, they are real for those who have experienced it.. and so are hallucinations, like jumping away because you think you've seen a snake when all it ever was was a garden hose or seeing the shadow of a tree move and thinking it is something else.

That doesn't make it real at all though.

Well, using that reasoning how do you know you are not hallucinating this entire thread? You could be sitting in the middle of a street mumbling to yourself naked for all of non-hallucinated reality's sake. In order to get around our existences we have to accept some things as a given, sure, but it is not proof of our perceived reality, it's only models of reality. Do you know all the variables of the universe/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?

I know I'm not hallucinating this thread because if I were, I'd be conversing with more perceptive individuals.

Why is it when every conspiracy theorist/alien believer faced with actually trying to reason something out ends up backing into one of two mental sewage corners:

1) Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everywhere.
2) My mind is the only thing that I know exists.

I'll tell you why you back up into these corners: They are the only places left to go.

The realm of the unreasonable... because that's the only way you can rationalize the supreme lack of evidence tried with your desire to believe.

reply to post by logician magician

Originally posted by Logician Magician
Why is it when every conspiracy theorist/alien believer faced with actually trying to reason something out ends up backing into one of two mental sewage corners:

1) Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everywhere.
2) My mind is the only thing that I know exists.

Did I write that? No, I didn't. Please keep what I wrote in context.

Addressing both points, I'll write it again... "In order to get around our existences we have to accept some things as a given, sure, but it is not proof of our perceived reality, it's only models of reality."

To clarify my point, there is a pattern throughout history that shows that as our knowledge of our uni/multiverse grows (including what is possible), so too does our model/perception of reality change... a paradigm shift. Based on that trend, it is reasonable and probable that we will undergo more paradigm shifts... more possibilities. So, to say or imply that what we know/perceive right now is reality, is in fact, by default, claiming to know everything that makes up our uni/multiverse.

So, please stop with the strawman tactics/diversions and answer the question... Do you know all the variables of the uni/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?

Originally posted by Logician Magician
"... I'd be conversing with more perceptive individuals."
"... mental sewage corners."
"... I'll tell you why you back up into these corners: They are the only places left to go."
"... because that's the only way you can rationalize the supreme lack of evidence tried with your desire to believe."

Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop with the snide ad hominem comments and reinforce your argument instead.

Originally posted by Flux8
reply to post by logician magician

 

Originally posted by Logician Magician
Why is it when every conspiracy theorist/alien believer faced with actually trying to reason something out ends up backing into one of two mental sewage corners:

1) Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everywhere.
2) My mind is the only thing that I know exists.

Did I write that? No, I didn't. Please keep what I wrote in context.

As I said before, you don't appear to be very perceptible.

No, you didn't write that. It's what you've been directly implying all along with what you have written, and it's a pattern on these boards that people resort to when faced with no evidence and only a belief. It's the only way to go, after all. Perhaps I can clear it up.

To clarify my point, there is a pattern throughout history that shows that as our knowledge of our uni/multiverse grows (including what is possible), so too does our model/perception of reality change... a paradigm shift. Based on that trend, it is reasonable and probable that we will undergo more paradigm shifts... more possibilities. So, to say or imply that what we know/perceive right now is reality, is in fact, by default, claiming to know everything that makes up our uni/multiverse.

Do you know all the variables of the uni/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?

Instead of saying "Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everywhere. " you're just saying "Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everytime. Even after that, you ask again in another form, "Do you [know all possibilities] of experience?" which is indeed a simple and meaningless rhetorical straw man argument, ironically.

Therefore, your question means nothing. It's nothing but a question to which you already know the answer - in fact, it's a question to which everyone already knows the answer, and it is based in the idea that "everything is possible". (which, as I'll explain is the same thing as "everything is impossible")

In order for it to be true, you must put forward some evidence that "everything is possible". In fact, you can not put forward any evidence that everything is possible because that very statement includes withing in it the chance that "everything is not possible."

In other words, it's perfectly possible that everything is not possible using the reasoning that everything is possible. Therefore, it has no meaning and can not be used to support a real argument - only an imaginary argument based in fantasy.

Sadly, you are attempting to use it as a basis for for your arguments that all experience is possible. It is nothing but a combination of the two statements I mentioned earlier. It's completely fallacious because you attempting to gain support for your argument in a completely hypothetical reality. Conjecture based on fantasy does not a reality make. Just because we can not experience everything or imagine anything does not mean whatever you can imagine exists.

Nothing is unprovable because we can't check everywhere.
+
My mind is the only thing that I know exists.
=
Mind (experience) is unprovable interpersonally because we can't experience everywhere/everything.

You should be able to derive the above phrase to either of the two above it.

Using your "reasoning" as a logical crutch, I can prove that I can perceive the mood of fish because there is no possible way for you to prove that I can not.

You and I were walking by a river one day. "Look at the fish swimming in the water," I say.

"Look at them! They are really enjoying themselves."

"You are a human, not a fish!," You say, "Therefore, you can not know that they are enjoying themselves."

"You are not me," I say. "So you can not possibly know that I know that the fish are enjoying themselves."

... and it doesn't end there with your line of thought. You may also quip back, "But.. you are not me so there is no way that you could know that I know that you can not know that the fish are enjoying themselves!

... and it goes on forever.

Further, your argument about change and paradigm shift: Just because things change, and knowledge grows does not mean that our knowledge will grow in the direction that you are (attempting) to support in your argument. Likewise, just because things change and knowledge grows has no bearing on the possibility of me perceiving the mood of fish - or rocks, for that matter.

It does not follow that just because things change and knowledge grows that alien life exist.

Your arguments are fallaciously non-sequitur.

Originally posted by Logician Magician
"... I'd be conversing with more perceptive individuals."
"... mental sewage corners."
"... I'll tell you why you back up into these corners: They are the only places left to go."
"... because that's the only way you can rationalize the supreme lack of evidence tried with your desire to believe."

Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop with the snide ad hominem comments and reinforce your argument instead.

Please.

I have to agree with you, I'd say its far more likely to be disinformation covering up secrets or atrocities or whatnot, than covering up aliens with secret government tests.

What people only look at is evidence on the surface, 'well then explain why policeman in Texas saw this for 20 minutes and blah blah' but in reality you cant really know if they even exist, let alone make the claim, if it is really disinformation they could easily write a fake report, fake work history and fake employee. If you disagree then why do you think they have the power to have a WORLD cover up of aliens?!

There could be life elsewhere in universe but why everyone assumes they're so advanced would be beyond me, why not LESS advanced than us? Or maybe equal.

And for the ancient drawings and stuff, would people in our future see cartoons and think we all had 4 fingers on each hand?! It could just be their cartoons, or who knows archaeology disinformation... with unlimited power you can cover up anything with anything.

reply to post by logician magician


You continue to put words in my mouth, twist my argument all over the place with 'not's and 'non's instead of plain language, using strawman tactics and rhetorical obfuscation. So let me make my position clear.

Based on what our knowledge of what reality is right now, it may be improbable that people have experienced contact with ETs, whether or not they came from UFOs, but it is not impossible. As our knowledge grows and our paradigm shifts, that probability may change. History has given us a trend that such a notion is true, (probable even). Again... to boldly claim that it is impossible for people to have experienced such things is to know the variables of all things that make up our universe, how it behaves, and our existence in it.

So, my question literally asks, "Do you know all the variables of the uni/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?"... NOT, "Do you [know all possibilities] of experience?". I stand firmly by my argument... nothing more, nothing less.

Therefore, your question means nothing.

Then this 'conversation' is over, (much to the happiness of other readers, I'm sure! We will now return you to your regularly scheduled program. )

reply to post by UFOexisist


You need to experience it to believe it. I was extremley skeptical,...until I had my first couple sightings then some. So no,...I know for a fact we are not alone. Maybe you haven't seen them yourself because deep down you haven't wanted to.
This sounds silly, but it works. Buy a copy of Lisette Larkins "Calling on Et's, opening to contact" I had my first experiences before this book, but the next morning after I finished it, my computer was typing by itself in reference to what I was doing. I forwarn you though, you may end up with post-traumatic stress disorder, and your belief system may shatter along with random glass objects in your household.


[edit on 22-4-2009 by conspiracyjunkie]

Originally posted by Flux8
reply to post by logician magician

 

You continue to put words in my mouth, twist my argument all over the place with 'not's and 'non's instead of plain language, using strawman tactics and rhetorical obfuscation. So let me make my position clear.

Based on what our knowledge of what reality is right now, it may be improbable that people have experienced contact with ETs, whether or not they came from UFOs, but it is not impossible.

How exactly do you know that it's not impossible for people to have contact with ET?

To state as such means you must know for certain that it is possible for ET to exist at all.

How do you know that it is not impossible for ET to exist?

To state as such means you must know for certain that the universe exists or will exist in a state that allows for ET to exist.

How do you know that the universe exists or will exist in a state that allows for ET to exist?

To state as such means you must intimately know the makeup of the entire universe and all life that exist or will exist as the universe exists, or as it will exist.

Of course, you get the point: You do not know what is impossible.

Because of this, you have to right to back up any of your ideas by claiming that they are not impossible.

As our knowledge grows and our paradigm shifts, that probability may change. History has given us a trend that such a notion is true, (probable even). Again... to boldly claim that it is impossible for people to have experienced such things is to know the variables of all things that make up our universe, how it behaves, and our existence in it.
So, my question literally asks, "Do you know all the variables of the uni/multiverse to claim to know the reality of one person's experiences over another's?"... NOT, "Do you [know all possibilities] of experience?". I stand firmly by my argument... nothing more, nothing less.

No, I don't know them all, but I don't need to since it is entirely possible that one does not have to know all the variables of the uni/multiverse to know the reality of one person's experience over another's.