why do we have Déjà vu?

Nice diagram. ^^

Speaking of dreams, how do conventional theories explain how dreams seem to anticipate external sounds and integrate them into the dream? It's as if the dream knows that the sound is going to happen before it actually does.

I'll say it it one more time: our sub/unconscious doesn't experience time in a linear fashion like our conscious minds do.

Originally posted by Kruel
Nice diagram. ^^

Speaking of dreams, how do conventional theories explain how dreams seem to anticipate external sounds and integrate them into the dream? It's as if the dream knows that the sound is going to happen before it actually does.

I'll say it it one more time: our sub/unconscious doesn't experience time in a linear fashion like our conscious minds do.

Dreaming is a process of thinking. We would almost have to break it down into a form of "Quantum Reality Rendering Software".

A dream reflects instantly its rendered output based on how our dreaming consciousness organizes and projects the dream. This of course exists in "no time" as you say.

Time is a product of the observation of change, and really does not exist in certain compartments of conscious experience. Time is only measured by our linear consciousness, and as you say, other parts of us observe the complete time line from another observation point.

If we break down what our consciousness is, and it is compartmentalized into a multitude of aspects, then we can see as we see in everything modeled in the Universe, something that appears complete, but is composed of many, many parts.

The Gnostics may have had it right with their observation of the EIDOLON (What we are as the linear consciousness, the ego, the physical body), and the DAЇMON (The part of us which is the god like universal mind, the true self, our total consciousness).

Anthony Peake has some very interesting views on the Gnostic relationship between human self and the true self.

If we are just a part, and from what I understand, a very small part of our true consciousness, then we are limited in our perception of our total self, we only see aspects of it from time to time.

It is this Daimon or total consciousness which observes all time and no time at once. It is the quantum perfection balanced in total synchronicity with all of its parts.

And as the Eildolon, we explore both reality and our dreams confined as that representation of our self that we identify with who we think we are.

I think we are wise to not only break down reality into molecules, atoms and weak and strong gravitational forces, but also break it down into units of consciousness.

Understand that it's all consciousness intertwined an appearing as energy. Holographic Theory is becoming more relevant, and if we take Metranon's Cube, which is geometric perfection in my opinion.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/38971d736145.png[/atsimg]

We see the basis for not only how a holographic universe works, but how we work, how dimensionality works as everything from a geometrical perspective works within the most harmonious geometric forms.

Why physicists are observing this emerging hollographic universe, is because they are observing the true nature of reality, the true thought which organized it, and made it what it is today.

There is a clear and distinct relationship between dreams, and reality.

And dreams are a created phenomena. And if dreams at some point come true, then this area where the dream suddenly becomes our reality is confirming a holographic universe.

I personally like to call it a Dreaming Universe, as I feel that most accurately describes what the Universe is, and what it is doing.

You had a diagram in another thread where you explain time as it ripples out. It is precisely like that.

Imagine an organized dream that we participate in as a quantum packet, and it starts to move into a state of synchronicity with linear time, until that moment where that linear time becomes realized and we observe the dream as becoming our reality.

What we are observing is exactly as it appears to be. A dream.

I am not sure if String Theory describes it, but I can imagine it being like this.

Our dream is like gamma rays within the Electromagnetic Spectrum, and as they begin to slow down, and transform into other slower wave forms like x-rays, UV and finally visual light.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/798168524db6.png[/atsimg]

The dream already exists in this spectrum at a higher vibrational state of thought, and it is only a matter of when it becomes vibrationally in sync with the visual part of the spectrum that we finally realize it, and observe it here in our reality.

I like this diagram as it also hints at the Bohmian IMAX which in itself is another interesting theory on how we perceive reality.






[edit on 19-4-2009 by YouAreDreaming]

reply to post by YouAreDreaming
that made alot of sense, i agree with everything you said plus the diagrams and information we're very detailed and very accurate.

So whats your saying is that my own experience is my brain being faulty? i dont know about that man. i can buy your logic into the brain malfunction, but the dream i had felt very real, i saw my pops and my best friends pops die one day apart, then it happens... i forget about the dream, and then at night, 1am/2am i get my dejavu, immediately thinking of the dream i had, i run down stairs to check up on my pops. he is on the kitchen floor, half dead... 24 hours later, my best friends dad had chest pains, i told my freind earlier that day to keep an eye on him, he had some chest pains, and they called 911, ambulance came, and his heart stopped 3 times on the way to the hosp, and twice in ICU.... i dunno dude, I dont think its just a brain malfunction.

i can see how it could happen, and some dejavus are malfunctions, but i think a handful are something else, and we dont know what it is.

Your right to the point that simply saying that your experiences are just your brain at fault would be ignorant of me. It must of been an scary occurance to somewhat of seen your pop's death coming in a dream. However before taking my side on any of these real life experience stories its always vital to take in all infomation. This is where the common phrase "seeing is believing" is best used.
I say this because from my past investigations into any sorta paranormal there tends to be parts the storyteller leaves out. I am in no way saying your lying but theres always more peices to the puzzle in these cases.

For example;
Had your pop been ill before hand?
Had to remembered the dream before experiecing the deja vu?
Did your pop in fact pass away or wa she lucky enough to survive?
How vague was the dream, as in did he die the same way?

Theres lots of little questions i could ask, however i do not expect you to answer as it is outside the means of this thead. What i'm pointing out is that I was not there and so your right in saying i do not have the right to say what you experienced was merely a brain malfunction. It's just that the paranormal is always claimed through vague experiences while science requires exact proof.
I don't doubt your experience happened but i expect there is more to it.

- No offense meant mate, fascinating tale.

reply to post by jellyman1991


Thanks JM. It's great to give these topics our deliberation as we are progressing ourselves towards a higher perception of what we really are.

And there are a lot of people here who share in this common experiences, and the science regarding these experiences is lacking in our mainstream census.

We are very much part of a pioneering force to come forward and start to tackle the very large and hyper dimensional truths of what we and our Universe are.

With all of that said, some things to consider that I enjoy pointing out is this:

Clearly not all dreams come true, and why is it, that only some qualify as reality and come true where we can recognize it here.

If I am dreaming, and you are dreaming and everyone else is dreaming, how can it be that all of our dreams come true? Aren't all dreams subjective?

Or are we somehow connected and share some bond that exists as synchronicity amongst us.

For all of us to dream a future event, and have it come true, it starts to reveal some more profound realizations that we may all come from one central source, one unified field of consciousness.

That we are very much connected and both a single person, and everything at once. In these realizations, somehow we are connected, somehow we are not all separate from each other like we want to think.

At least that is what I am pondering in terms of how is it possible.

I know that I have changed dreams before they have come true and the changes have happened here. I know that I can change a dream.

These changes have been very phenomenological in nature and solidify my theory that reality is a dream.

If I can change the dream, then surely someone else can also change it. That in this, all of us have the power to change it, and ultimately change reality.

There is still lots to learn about this, but there seems to be direction, knowledge and wisdom in all our efforts to understand it.

At least we exist with these abilities and with regard to creating reality, it seems like its so second nature, so natural that we don't even realize we are doing it.

I wonder if one day we will realize it to the extent that we can dramatically change reality as we do our dreams.

Potentially it seems very probable... not as impossible as dreaming the future would seem.

How do we tap into this potential and make it more accessible?

reply to post by YouAreDreaming
we have to consider all aspects of Déjà vu, to know what it truly is, you can explain Déjà vu with extreme detail its impressive.


[edit on 20-4-2009 by jellyman1991]

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


wow dude, this confirms everything i had thought about how reality works. this is not however definite, but it sure as hell explains a lot. thanks for the informative post!!

So my dream i had (posted twice in earlier replies) so basically that's the holographic universe catching up to my place in time in the spectrum. Like, i reached some form of higher self within a dream, and was able to go around space/time and look at what was going to happen, am i correct?

Jelly.

Yea, im pretty sure it was legit too, stuff like this happens regularly... like dejavus wouldn't even be reminders of a dream, sometimes, in meditation i would see images, and have interactions with people i have not met yet, and later on, 3 weeks, 3 months i would meet them F2F. i would also, see events, or something play out in my mind, and come true later on in the day/week/month or whenever. (sometimes i see people, and i swear ive met them before)

The only thing that i cannot tell is when those images will reapear.

With my dad and best freinds dad dream, i had a pretty good idea on how long it would be before it played out. its always been 3 weeks for dream predictions to play out, and with mediation it would be random.

I also had witnesses for this one... ill keep it short because i have posted this already in (predictions forum) check my profile for one of my first threads for the full story.

Basically, i had a dream, the intensity was the same as my other one. i was riding my bike, looking at the NYC skyline, and i saww fire/smoke/death/fear/anger, etc. i saw images, and felt the emotions. i woke up crying because the influence was intense. this was august, 2001.

3 weeks later...

sept 11th happened. no i didint get the deja vu or anything on that day, i didint even realize i had dreamt it already until i had my dejavu riding my bike toward hoboken NJ lookin at the SKYline.(which was 3 days later on that Friday), i basically hit the brakes hard, and just sat/laid there on the sidewalk shaking for a while. (was scary as hell)

as i said, it was pretty intense, and i really wish i knew how to control this gift/skill.

beleive or not, don't care. it happened to me, and all it did was open up a can of worms.

I think dejavu is connected between dreams. some sort of bridge between my reality, and future reality. like an image is like a password so you can access files in a computer. like a trigger

i dont know if i made any sense there, but its also hard trying to explain it.

reply to post by MrGummyPants


Ill answer your questions... if the mods allow it... and ill try to keep on topic .... plus i think others would want those questions answered anyway... so here it goes.

Had your pop been ill before hand?

Nope, he wasn't, he was healthy as a mule, never been in a hospital in his life as a patient. he is a stubborn old man, and is still alive to this day

Had to remembered the dream before experiencing the deja vu?

Yea, i wrote it in an e-mail to my best friend. i woke up, wrote it down. any intense dreams i have, i taught myself to just write it down, because i thought it would be important... and it was.

Did your pop in fact pass away or was he lucky enough to survive?

He lived, if i had not gone down stairs, he would of been dead by morning the docs said. he lost 2/3rds of his hemoglobin or w/e its called.

How vague was the dream, as in did he die the same way?

Same way, the only thing was that i found him the next morning on the kitchen floor dead. i got to him early (around 2AM that night) because i remembered the dream VIA dejavu... which was the reason why i decided to share it here. i think my experience would, and could shed some light on what dejavu actually is. heck, i also shared it because i wanted some answers myself.

I didn't take offense much. i understand your skepticism, and heck, id be the same way if i had never experienced it... but i have, and since ive seen it, i beleive it.

YouareDreaming, pretty much laid it out for us on what dejavus are, at least it explains it to an extent.

reply to post by ugie1028
your totally right ugie, their could be some interlaping form of space/time, my theory is when we sleep we are actually experiencing real time, which if we concentrate real hard, we can take a sneak peak if you will into time itself, and we can't process all of the events we see, we can only process flashes, that is why we have deja vu, because we can't remember all we saw, we only experience that deja vu sense that we have been in that moment before which in fact we only saw it, but then we
catch up with time, so what you see now becomes reality, so that is why you have that deja vu sense,

Originally posted by jellyman1991
reply to post by ugie1028

 

your totally right ugie, their could be some interlaping form of space/time, my theory is when we sleep we are actually experiencing real time, which if we concentrate real hard, we can take a sneak peak if you will into time itself, and we can't process all of the events we see, we can only process flashes, that is why we have deja vu, because we can't remember all we saw, we only experience that deja vu sense that we have been in that moment before which in fact we only saw it, but then we
catch up with time, so what you see now becomes reality, so that is why you have that deja vu sense,

Thanks, i put a LOT of thought into it since i have had my experiences. sometimes when i would dream, i would ask questions what, why, where, how? id sometimes get answers, sometimes i wouldnt. there is a whole side some people dont know about... sometimes i think im crazy, but when i have dreams like the ones i have shared... i go from crazy to gifted.

its an odd phenomenon, that needs to be researched in the mainstream. i could go on and on with more experiences ive had, but i would go off topic.

all i can say from my own understanding, is that our reality with 5 senses is the dream, and the dreams are reality. i really hope that made sense...

reply to post by ugie1028
that made perfect sense please go further, i like to hear all aspects of this topic, so it dosn't matter if you go way off topic im intrigued to find out what you know.

Don't think too much about it, or you'll miss the point...

In the majority of the cases, déjà-vu has to do with reincarnation.
You recognize a place because you have been there before,
but usually not in this life...

Originally posted by jellyman1991
reply to post by ugie1028

 

that made perfect sense please go further, i like to hear all aspects of this topic, so it dosn't matter if you go way off topic im intrigued to find out what you know.

I can explain further, but i want to follow the forum guidelines. this thread is about what are dejavu's and if i continue on, its going to transform into a reality thread.... which is a no-no by mods standards.

i can reply about reality topics there so the mods don't get trigger happy with my off topic stuff here.

Alternate dimensional thinkers are WELCOME! Is String theory our reality?

Here is a thread i started a few days ago. this dejavu thread gave me some initiative to start this thread.

if anything, that's how i think reality works, and how dejavus come into play when your in your altered state of reality (sleep/meditation)

I have experienced being in some kind of situation, sometimes familiar sometimes not, in a dream. Several years may pass, and then I experience that same situation, but in "reality". I call them "Future Memories"

The experience for me, is like when you go to the cinema and there are still frames from the movie on the poster outside... when you watch the movie, you see those frames pass, and part of your mind says "oh, that's the scene from the poster". usually not even a conscious thought, but a small flash of recognition.

These dreams create a similar feeling, in that I am in a situation, usually unfamiliar, with people I dont know at the time of the dream. it's usually a few seconds, but exactly that same familiar thought of "Oh I dreamed this a long time ago".

I have an experience like this perhaps every few days, and the memories are from ten, twenty years back.

I dont remember the dream when I have it though, so I cant prove anything! it's only when I get the "deja Vu" feeling/thought that it comes back. the scenarios are never that important, quite mundane really, so I dont give them that much thought.

My personal feeling is that large events (global tsunami/911/inauguration etc) cause ripples in space-time, which carry our memories backwards and forwards in time, and it is these ripples that we see in our prophetic dreams. All I see is my own point of view in these experiences. thats just my guess anyway.

As far I am concerned, this is a natural, real experience. it is nothing to do with half of my brain being ahead of the other, as these are distinct memories not some vague feeling.

Does anyone else have these things? I have not "worked" this, as I have enough things to do in my life, but they have so far been non-events, just little vignettes, and not significant. It would be interesting to see if other people have concurrent experiences...

Originally posted by memyself
Don't think too much about it, or you'll miss the point...

In the majority of the cases, déjà-vu has to do with reincarnation.
You recognize a place because you have been there before,
but usually not in this life...

In most cases? I'm sorry but where's your proof for this?
Seems like you took a random stab in the dark here, there's no reason to believe Deja'vu is related to reincarnation or past lives.
Do i need to state again that if something can be scientifically explained within the laws of the natural world, then say goodbye to your mystical ideas. Thats not to say that I can't be wrong but im afraid there is evidence to almost certify the biological causes for deja'vu.

However i'd love to see the evidence you have that made you blurt that out..

There is other points of interest in this arena of thought.

The Monroe Institute extensively covers this topic in some very deep and profound ways. As a consciousness research organization, they hold no punches on what is going on.

The have broken down the nature of consciousness and how it phases into other focus levels into many layers, I believe they have observed a 7x7 ascending spiral, meaning each concentric ring represents consciousness in various evolutionary states.

That once we reach focus 21, we are in the out-of-body state. And the levels continue onward into other reality systems.

One of the things that Robert A. Monroe spoke about was something he coined the Creative Process, and that there was a projector which he observed projecting reality.

Again, this really confirms holographic universe theory. A graduate of the Monroe Institute is Dr. Thomas Campbell, who authored a book, My Big Toe. And he furthers the research to affirm that we are creating reality, and many realities.

This creative process is evident as our dreams are products of it. And we naturally do this without hard conscious effort, as in...

It is more natural and easy for our mind to dream, then say, solve complex mathematical formulas. Take the most challenging intellectual problem you have had to solve, and all the left-brain logical hammering you needed to do.

Then observe how when you dream, you simply manifest massive complex patterns of information in the form effortlessly.

Just a sign of how powerful the inner consciousness is. And from that we also gleam into the creative process. The dreams that come true.

Now in my personal research, I can confirm that in an awake and lucid state during dreams. During that mind awake, body asleep state, I have observed precognitive dreams before them come true.

This is not like normal precognitive dreams you see. The difference is that who I am here when awake and self-realized, was also fully focused and aware in the precognitive dream state pre-reality.

What made my research interesting is I started to make slight changes to the dream, to see if these changes would happen here.

I want to confirm that they did, I was very successful in producing many times, changes in my reality through lucid precognitive dream manipulation. Changes in precognitive dreams do affect this reality. I've seen it first hand. Many times.

Something I want to share with all of you in the event you too want to pursue this angle of personal research with this phenomena.

At least by introducing the concept, you have something to focus on in your efforts to understand the process.

In case it hasn't already been posted, I always thought it was some kind of chemical build up in the brain and when it reached a certain point it released said chemicals and no matter what we are doing at the time we simply think we've done it before.

Originally posted by korath
In case it hasn't already been posted, I always thought it was some kind of chemical build up in the brain and when it reached a certain point it released said chemicals and no matter what we are doing at the time we simply think we've done it before.

What an interesting theory. I like it, makes since, it is simple and maybe the answer. Your theory makes me look at De ja vu at a new angle, I like that, think outside of the box, that is were we are most likely to find the truth. Thanks for sharing... Although thinking De ja vu is a type of mystery is more enticing. The only objective I have is: what about when you remember a dream and then it comes true, it feels to me like De ja vu, is this also a chemical release or something more?

reply to post by Melissa101


It's only apparent to those who have dreams that come true, that they are the source of Deja Vu, however, not everyone does remember dreaming events that happen later, so it's really a unrealistic, unreasonable impossibility for them.

Hence why we need to start asking people if they have Deja Reve, in the event that they mistake Deja Vu for it.

Another big theory is Eternal Recurrence which implies time is cyclical and that we experience the same life over and over again in a ground hog day like event for infinity.

I don't totally buy that theory mind you, because I do remember a former life prior to coming into this one.

If what I have observed while OBE is correct, I could have over 220 lifetimes before this one kicked in.

What ever the case, it's amazing we exist at all, and there is a lot of signs of eternity before us.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming
oh yes i forgot deja reve is when you're asleep, i think when we're asleep we're in a hyper sensitive state.