The Lubbock lights.

"All of this throws their credibility into question. Four doddering old men realize in life they never accomplished much and so created this elaborate hoax as a means to be well known by society since their peers did not respect them since they werent published enough to be respected and taken seriously in scientific circles. "

You just lost any credibility on this board as a "skeptic" by trying to draw attention away from the facts and the fully documented evidence that is clear as day. It's a pathetic tactic used quite often but isn't going to be allowed with cases such as this one; go back to the kiddie threads and debunk some more youtube videos.

Excellent topic Karl and Internos. Many thanks for the effort.

""The object was tracked continuously for a period of six minutes and made a timed ground speed of 950 mph. The object was on a course of 340 degrees with only slight deviations enroute. An altitude reading of 13,000 feet was obtained but the accuracy of the measurement is questionable due to brief length of time the object was detected. The F-86 aircraft were scrambled but radar contact with the object was lost before the aircraft were airborne, A visual search was conducted from 17,000 to 25,000 feet with negative results. The operator of the radar set, an Air Force Captain, is considered to be an expert operator.""

So, here we have trained radar operators taking readings of an unknown object traveling at high speeds with an intercept aircraft launched to investigate... I find it FAR from probable that these trained radar observers were seeing interference of some-kind, especially when a jet is scrambled to intercept the object. These observers are trained over and over again to be able to tell the differences between actual moving objects and false positive echo returns. For an aircraft to be scrambled at a an airbase there's usually more than one radar station involved in the tracking of objects as well.

Karl and Internos:

In all of the "declassified" documentation you guys have read through, have you guys come across the names of the pilots involved in these kinds of cases where aircraft have been scrambled to intercept the unknown object (s)?

It would be interesting to hear from these pilots if they are willing to come forward with testimony.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
In all of the "declassified" documentation you guys have read through, have you guys come across the names of the pilots involved in these kinds of cases where aircraft have been scrambled to intercept the unknown object (s)?

Jocko, thanks for the reply matey -there are a few examples in this thread and quite a few other freaky pilot UFO incidents listed here but the Edwards Air Force base incident is the first one that springs to mind (Captain Darryl Clark), there's also the Tehran incident (General Parviz Jafari) and the La Joya Military Base Incident (Commander Oscar Alfonso Huertas) which are very bizarre indeed so it's a great shame none of the gun camera footage has ever been declassified.
I know we've discussed it before but I still think one of the more unusual cases is the Minot AFB incident from 1968:

The Minot AFB B-52 UFO Incident.


As for cross-checking Project BlueBook records for witness names and information, it seems a lot of the material was censored whilst at the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

THE BLUE BOOK UNKNOWNS

In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step toward writing a book on the subject.

In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on all witnesses where given. The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work.

A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This process involved making a xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material, blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then microfilming the censored xerox copy. The microfilm has been available to the public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book files remain under lock and key at the Archives.

On almost every page of the 12,000+ case files, there are big black marks where information that could be used to cross-check Project Blue Book's controversial work has been censored.

This includes the names of witnesses to widely-publicized cases, and even names in newspaper clippings.

Link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


great case thanks for the info


it's highly unlikely these objects were ducks, i have seen them fly over at night and there is no mistaking them. if none of the witnesses said they were birds then they probably weren't. also flares wouldn't stay in a precise congruent formation like that, no way. i don't know what it was but it sure is interesting.

S$F

Originally posted by easynow
great case thanks for the info

it's highly unlikely these objects were ducks, i have seen them fly over at night and there is no mistaking them. if none of the witnesses said they were birds then they probably weren't. also flares wouldn't stay in a precise congruent formation like that, no way. i don't know what it was but it sure is interesting.

Easynow, thanks for the reply bud and I'd certainly agree that these objects don't look like ducks - one of the photographs posted by Internos looks very strange indeed and other witness testimony from around the same time and area also sounds very interesting (and unducklike).


Pic:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/2cd06d39a15b1f64.jpg[/atsimg]

Dr. J.C. Cross, head of Tech’s Department of Biology, examined the 35mm photographs, and asserted, "It definitely wasn’t caused by birds."
In Matador, reports were made of a "noiseless aircraft flying at a low altitude, without aid of propellers or wings." They said it was different from any aircraft they had ever seen.

Testimony from Matador:

The two witnesses report a 'pear-shaped object, aluminum or silver in color, which readily reflected the sunlight' - they also mention the object had a 'door or porthole'.

Link

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by karl 12


obviously the lights weren't ducks and Lieutenant Ruppelt later reversed his bird conclusion and supposedly found out what it was but wouldn't reveal the info !

Ruppelt himself would come to reject the plover hypothesis, but frustratingly refrained from explaining what the lights in fact were:

"They weren't birds, they weren't refracted light, but they weren't spaceships. The lights ... have been positively identified as a very commonplace and easily explainable natural phenomenon. It is very unfortunate that I can't divulge ... the way the answer was found.... Telling the story would lead to [the identity of the scientist who "finally hit upon the answer"] and ... I promised the man complete anonymity"

en.wikipedia.org...

While investigating the Lubbock Lights, Ruppelt also learned that several people in and around Lubbock claimed to have seen a "flying wing" moving over the city (Clark, 347). Among the witnesses was the wife of Dr. Ducker, who reported that in August 1951 she had observed a "huge, soundless flying wing" pass over her house (Clark, 347). Ruppelt knew that the US Air Force did possess a "flying wing" jet bomber, and he felt that at least some of the sightings had been caused by the bomber, although he could not explain why, according to the witnesses, the wing made no sound as it flew overhead.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


i don't think it was the flying wing aircraft because that makes zero sense when looking at the pictures

www.ufocasebook.com...
www.ufocasebook.com...

i doubt the wing aircraft had that many lights to begin with and i wouldn't believe for a second that they had the capability to make the lights appear in different patterns. the US Air Force Flying Wing was not what was photographed and it wasn't Birds so that doesn't leave too many choices does it ?

reply to post by easynow


Easynow - Isaac Koi has posted some very interesting info about the case in this thread and it appears there's quite a few unanswered questions about Ruppelt's opinion in the 'revised' edition of his book 'The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects.'


Apparently Ruppelt now stated the lights were caused by moths.

"The world famous Lubbock Lights were night flying moths reflecting the bluish-green light of a nearby row of mercury vapour street lights."

The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by Captain Edward J. Ruppelt.

1959 Revised Edition.

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by karl 12


thanks for the link and Isaac Koi did a great job on that thread and got no replies

Apparently Ruppelt now stated the lights were caused by moths

i think Hynek's comment about Quintanilla should be applied to Ruppelt too !

“the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.”

www.abovetopsecret.com...

there are some old Aircraft named Flying Moth or Tiger Moth but i don't think he was implying that since he said it was a "natural phenomena" and the witnesses would have no doubt heard these planes just like they would have heard the Air Force Flying Wing. not many choices left to pick from, if it wasn't a secret aircraft that had silent running capability then what else can we conclude ?

reply to post by easynow


Easynow, thanks for the reply bud -I don't see how anyone on God's green earth could think that this photograph shows 'moths' - that's got to be the best one yet.


Here's a nice clip from the movie 'Invaders from Mars' where the Lubbock Lights image pops up around 3:50 (U.K. version only for some reason):

Scene involving actual UFO reports of the period... missing from US releases. Obviously staged to be inserted or cut from the film. For some interesting reason, only in the UK version.

Cheers.

Article questions official explanation for the Lubbock lights:

Video about the Lubbock lights containing witness testimony and photo examination:

reply to post by karl 12


Highly Reflective Duck Bellies.

I'm going to use that one...

ET? Lantern? Satellite?

No, HRDB!

Nice thread & video...

Originally posted by dsm1664
reply to post by karl 12

 

Highly Reflective Duck Bellies.

I'm going to use that one...

Dsm1664, thanks for the reply and yes, the 'Highly Reflective Duck Bellies' debunk is quite a remarkable one - as is the 'Bluish-Green Night Flying Moth' explanation (link) - I don't know if you've seen it but Isaac has done some great work here collating references for the case and, although there's very little further information to go on, there's an article below concerning a similar sighting in the area four years earlier:

Eyewitness Spotted Lights 4 Years Before The Lubbock Sightings

One evening (9 or 10 PM) a few months later I was feeding my two dogs on the back patio of my home when my peripheral vision detected movement in the sky. I looked up and saw the lights in V formation. It was a perfect V with perhaps 5-7 lights along each line of the V. The lights were all the same size and in single file, unlike some of the photos being shown, and each light was a bit larger than the full moon, but much dimmer. They were perfectly circular, and they moved rapidly and silently. Geese never form a perfect V, are never perfectly round, are never silent (usually they are first detected by their honking), and their movement is relatively slow. These lights moved rapidly from NW to SE.

Although I first spotted them at about the apogee point, they crossed the sky in a matter of only about 3 or 4 seconds. The event was a surprise in itself, but I was in store for another surprise. Even though there was much horizon left for their movement, they totally disappeared at an elevation of about 30 degrees or so. It was as if a light switch had been flicked off. All of this occurred in the town of Dickinson, TX.

link

Cheers.

I'm new to this site/forum, so hello everyone, thanks for the intelligent conversation about this! I fancy myself an amateur ufologist so it is nice to see a forum where there's not a bunch of crazy talk.

Anyway, about the Lubbock Lights...I saw a pic that looked like the same object in a book (I wish I would have remembered the name of the book...I'm going back to the same bookstore to see if I can locate it, and perhaps photograph, if possible...) except this object was photographed in Brazil in the 70's...and I know someone already mentioned, but it does look like what was described as the Phoenix Lights in '97. I am wondering if you all had seen the video of "the Intruder" in Northern AZ in 97...to me, it looks like the lights in Lubbock - only as an actual video.
youtu.be...
pretty freaky...when I rediscovered the Lubbock Lights case, I thought of the Brazil pic as well as the "Intruder" video that I had seen a couple of years ago.

I would love to know what the rest of you all think about this.

Originally posted by interst88
I'm new to this site/forum, so hello everyone, thanks for the intelligent conversation about this! I fancy myself an amateur ufologist

so it is nice to see a forum where there's not a bunch of crazy talk.

Anyway, about the Lubbock Lights...I saw a pic that looked like the same object in a book (I wish I would have remembered the name of the book...I'm going back to the same bookstore to see if I can locate it, and perhaps photograph, if possible...) except this object was photographed in Brazil in the 70's...and I know someone already mentioned, but it does look like what was described as the Phoenix Lights in '97. I am wondering if you all had seen the video of "the Intruder" in Northern AZ in 97...to me, it looks like the lights in Lubbock - only as an actual video.
youtu.be...
pretty freaky...when I rediscovered the Lubbock Lights case, I thought of the Brazil pic as well as the "Intruder" video that I had seen a couple of years ago.

I would love to know what the rest of you all think about this.

Interst88, thanks for sharing the video and would certainly like to have a look at that Brazil photograph if you can locate it - there's another clip below mentioning the Lubbock lights and it also states a member of the Atomic Energy Commission and his wife had a similar sighting in New Mexico a few days earlier - see 6:25:





Cheers.

Originally posted by karl 12

As for cross-checking Project BlueBook records for witness names and information - it seems a lot of the material was purposefully censored or deleted whilst at the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

See Isaac's post here.

reply to post by easynow


It was not a Flying Wing because they were no longer flying in August or September of 1951.

“The sole prototype reconnaissance platform, the YRB-49A, first flew on 4 May 1950. After only 13 flights, testing ended abruptly on 26 April 1951. It was then flown back to Northrop's headquarters from Edwards Air Force Base on what would be its last flight. There, this remaining flying wing sat abandoned at the edge of Northrop's Ontario airport for more than two years. It was finally ordered scrapped on 1 December 1953.”

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil...

ps: moths that glow like Frisbees? More military cover up.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect

moths that glow like Frisbees? More military cover up.

Yes glowing frisbee moths -what a hoot.

Here's a similar sketch of a 'formation' of objects from a case on 31st March 1949 which also looks like the Lubbock photograph.

The sketch made by Charles Sradomski, who 'avowed he would swear on the Bible he saw the objects regardless of what anyone thought'

link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Lubbock = Phoenix?

The light pattern on the first photo is identical to the light pattern on a giant boomerang shaped object i saw in November of 1985.