Obama wants to build a nationwide light rail system

THis will go hand and hand with the fema camps and the thousands of trains they claim they are building there, equip with arms and legs shackles. Welcome New World Order!

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I'm not a huge obama fan, but you all are in such a hurry to bash him that you are overlooking his good ideas.

Today's rail tech is more more economical and efficient, not to mention green, than an time in history. A rail system like this would revolutionize the shipping industry, as semi truck would no longer have to be the main source of shipping.

Auto factories could easily be retrofitted to produce trains, rails and equipment, and the maintenance on such rails is minimal.

Thousands of jobs would be created, it would cut pollution, traffic, and the cost of road maintanance, and would streamline the shipping industry.

Where the downfall? Because it would cost money to start up? Sorry friend, but to stimulate an economy, you HAVE to put money into it.

I guess the MAX has solved our congestion here right? I'll give you a break because you are from Oregon. People here don't have a clue how to stimulate an economy, which is why this State operates in the red, even during a boom cycle.

You can not, ever, not ever, take money from the private sector and create thousands of jobs that produce nothing. First off you will end up either taxing the private sector to the hilt to build this stupid thing, or you will have to borrow the money from "somewhere" to build it. In either case More private sector jobs will be lost in exchange for a few crappy government jobs that produce nothing, and suck off the producers in order to get a check.

This is why every month you can see for yourself, Government overall keeps hiring, while the private sector keeps laying people off. Government does not stimulate an economy, it regulates it, which as we have seen this last year or so, leads to it's complete unraveling. The invisible hand of the market has no patience for Central Banks, or regulated Trade, eventually the market will have it's correction, wether or not anyone wants go through it.

In closing, if you do not believe anything I've said here, I'd suggest you look at States with enormous intrusive governments and see how it's working out for them. Start with Oregon, this state loves spending the peoples money on all sorts of stupid crap. Like the new max line into Clackamas. Look up our unemployment rate, see where we rank with the rest of the country. Then do the same for Washington, California, Massachusetts, etc. Have a good time with that. If you are right, then those states should be rocking it, with very low unemployment rates, and a ton of revenue. Got the feeling though, you may have been misled in economics, must have been a State run school.

EDIT : Here, this is a good place to start....www.oregonlive.com...

Oregon, with all it's regulatory BS, Government jobs, and government "investments" has acheived a great milestone today. The unemployment rate is the 2nd highest in the nation, behind only, Michigan. 12.1%.... Lets see if the government and stimulate it's way to 13%. Six months, tops.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by aravoth]

Well WE MIGHT not HAVE money, but the NWO he works for sure does. I don't know how much you like the disinformationist Alex Jones but he does state something about a new public mass transportation system in ENDGAME. It is possible that THIS COULD BE THE ONE in which he was speaking of. Very Much Possible?

[edit on 17-4-2009 by JonilyNobily33D]

Invisible Hand of the Market

We should build an Idol, and have a virgin sacrifice. Yeah, that's the solution. Find your favorite corporate logo, and bow down and pray to it, and maybe it will save you.

Any of you people ever read any history? De-regulation is what created our current economic fiasco, just like deregulation created the Great Depression. There are legitimate reasons to have rules that govern our economy.

You people ever hear of an Interstate Highway? How do you think those things were created? Ever see anyone working on those roads?

Our current transportation system exists because it is extremely profitable to corporations. Cheap oil is running out, and the current biggest problem with the U.S. as a nation is our dependence on oil. Changing our transportation infrastructure makes more than good sense, it is what needs to happen.

Originally posted by poet1b
Invisible Hand of the Market

We should build an Idol, and have a virgin sacrifice. Yeah, that's the solution. Find your favorite corporate logo, and bow down and pray to it, and maybe it will save you.

Any of you people ever read any history? De-regulation is what created our current economic fiasco, just like deregulation created the Great Depression. There are legitimate reasons to have rules that govern our economy.

You people ever hear of an Interstate Highway? How do you think those things were created? Ever see anyone working on those roads?

Our current transportation system exists because it is extremely profitable to corporations. Cheap oil is running out, and the current biggest problem with the U.S. as a nation is our dependence on oil. Changing our transportation infrastructure makes more than good sense, it is what needs to happen.

LOL, I will offer my cat for sacrifice. I think most people see the need for some regulation. I think what we dont like is the over regulation or the misregulation. Its alright to regulate A LITTLE if you do it the right way.

Also, no one is disagreeing that we need federal government to initially invest in some things, when they have the money to do it. The problem here is that the government doesnt have money to build a new rail system. Just like at your home, when you dont have money to pay the mortgage you dont run out and buy a new car even if it is more fuel efficient. The same thing applies here.

Last thing, I think they should privatize the interstate system in this country and get rid of all this crazinesx where you have pay union wages to build or fix federally funded roads.

I just want to say that if the government is going to stick us all in FEMA camps (which I dont believe) they can do it just as well with the old train system. I mean if they are going to shackle us all, does it really matter if it takes a few more days to get us there or if some of us die on the trip?

So government, if you are going to enslave me its ok to use the old train system. At least enslave me cost effectvely

[edit on 17-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by poet1b


Build your Idol in honor of the Holy Government, The largest monopoly on planet earth. Obviously Government is beyond corruption, and it is never self serving. We have a central bank regulating the value of the life blood of our economy. Controlling the Nations money supply by virtue of it's credit, and fools like you honestly believe that this was caused by deregulation.....

All this Government regulation and intervention only ends in one way. It always has, throughout the entire scope of human history Governments thought they had a role to play, and all throughout history they have failed. And they will always fail.

If you are right then Fannie, Freddie, GM, and AIG should be back up to 60 bucks a share in no time at all.

Run along now, lick the hand that feeds you, and may your chains rest lightly upon you.

EDIT: I'd like to understand your reasoning behind your erroneous statement "deregulation caused the great depression". Please explain how de-regulating caused this, or the crash in 1929. Even Lord Ben Bernake admitted that Fed caused it. Maybe you are a master of Keynesian Economic theory beyond the skill of The Fed Chairmen? Either case I'd be interested in hearing your revisionist history.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by aravoth]

[edit on 17-4-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by aravoth


The Federal Reserve is a private corporations, not a part of our government. The federal government is supposed to regulate the Fed Res, the banking system, and the investment community, but the foolish concepts of deregulation and belief in this fantasy of a free market cut back on regulation of these industries, and that is what created our current economic mess. The failure of government to regulate, as in evenly enforce a fair set of rules on the finance industry is what created this mess. You don't worship government, you get active, and make your voice heard.

If we are so broke, then it is time to shut down our huge military, and instead of spending all that money on protecting the overseas assets of corporations, invest that money here in our own country. If we are so broke that we can't even take care of our own nations infrastructure, than it is time to stop playing world's only super power. The same people who buy into worshiping the idols of corporate power are the same people who put our government into debt over 10 Trillion dollars building a powerful military to protect the assets of corporations so they could export our jobs.

If we are so broke, it is time to shut down the military industrial complex and rebuild our own nation.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


We didn't have the money to fight WW II, but we did it. We didn't have the money to build our nations Interstate highway system, but we did it, and paid back the money we borrowed to fight WW II.

As a nation, we used to believe in ourselves, but now, it seems we have too many people willing to give up and cry about how government has created all the problems. Well, we can cry about our situation and blame government, or we can do something to change the situation and makes ourselves a stronger nation.

Are we a nation of quitters and losers, or are we a nation of doers and winners?

reply to post by poet1b


Go ahead and shut down the military and see how long our little republic lasts. I know in fantasy world we all just get along, but in the real world we have other competitors who would be more than glad to show us how to run the country.

I dont think the military is there just to protect the assets of the evil corporations, one of which probably gives you a paycheck every week.

How about we privatize the post office, education, roads and highways etc...

reply to post by poet1b


The Federal Reserve is a regulatory body created by Congress. Likewise the Fractional Reserve Banking system was created by those same people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac where also created by the government. The regulatory processes in place was what allowed this "shadow banking" system to be created. The Federal reserve setting interest rates at 1% created cheap money, money that was used by Wall Street and the Government, allowed for all the malinvestment that occurred.

Essentially what they did was hand out fake money, and then allowed the banks to leverage it.

During the twenties, the FED essentially did the same thing, only in 1929 they contracted the money supply and fueled a deflationary depression. Bernake, knowing this, believes that credit destruction is not the route to go, instead he is inflating the money supply while congress cheers him on.

In the words of Peter Schiff, "If a kindergarten teacher passes out pixie sticks and soda pop, then leaves the classroom, and when she comes back the kindergartners have wrecked the place, who do you blame?"

EDIT: And by the way, regulated trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA etc., are the reason our manufacturing jobs went overseas. All of which was created by your beloved Government.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by aravoth]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

We didn't have the money to fight WW II, but we did it. We didn't have the money to build our nations Interstate highway system, but we did it, and paid back the money we borrowed to fight WW II.

As a nation, we used to believe in ourselves, but now, it seems we have too many people willing to give up and cry about how government has created all the problems. Well, we can cry about our situation and blame government, or we can do something to change the situation and makes ourselves a stronger nation.

Are we a nation of quitters and losers, or are we a nation of doers and winners?

We didnt really have a choice with the whole ww2 thing, unless we wanted to start speaking German or Japanese.

No one is saying we should give up. You are saying we should let government solve our problems, which some of us would view as giving up. I am all for solving the situation, but I believe there is a better solution in the hands of individuals and businesses than in the hands of government.

If you read some of my other posts in this thread you will see that I am all for a rail system if it is deemed a worthy investment. If it is then investors will build it. If it isnt they wont. I would give even go as far as to say if the goverment was sitting on a few trillion and we had no debt then lets build it. What I dont agree with is putting this country in more debt for something we dont really have to have. We have trains, planes, cars, trucks. It is not like the job isnt getting done. Also, we have plenty of oil in this country if our wonderful government would let us drill for it.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Do you really think we need to spend more than the rest of the world combined to protect our nation?

The overwhelmingly massive military that we pay for exists for one reason, protect the overseas assets of our corporation, allowing them to export our jobs.

We could reduce our military budget to a sane level, and still be perfectly capable of protecting our nation. Do you really think we are that pathetic as soldiers?

If we don't start investing in our nation again, then we aren't going to be able to keep spending trillions of dollar projecting our military power around the world. Can you understand this?

reply to post by poet1b


I never said I was against cutting military spending. You are the one that said lets "Shut it down". I am for cutting all government spending. We could start by cutting it across the board by 10%, and then each dept has to adapt to the new budget. Except for all the bitching everyone in government would do, I bet the average citizen wouldnt even notice the difference.

Light rail always looks good on paper. When I lived in Charlotte NC, they were fighting tooth and nail to build light rail. They built it but I'm not sure what the ridership is at this point. The big problem with Charlotte was the staggering cost and taxpayer burden.

Taxpayers are picking up more than 90 percent of the tab for a lucky few commuters riding Charlotte's LYNX light-rail line, despite the trains' limited public benefit for traffic congestion, air quality, or land use. That's a key finding in a new John Locke Foundation Policy Report.

"When you combine both operating and capital costs, the total cost per trip on Charlotte's LYNX line is about $6.90, and the weighted average fare is about 60 cents per trip," said the report's lead author, David Hartgen, Emeritus Professor of Transportation Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. "That means the taxpayer is subsidizing about $6.30 of every trip taken on the LYNX line. Riders are paying just 8.7 percent of the cost."

Final LYNX construction costs total about $521.85 million, said Hartgen, who is also president of The Hartgen Group and a JLF adjunct scholar. The 9.6-mile, 15-station LYNX train line opened along Charlotte's South Boulevard in November 2007 after nearly a decade of planning and construction.

"The project's construction costs grew substantially," Hartgen said. "When voters approved the project in 1998, the official cost was $227 million. The final cost, $522 million, represents about a 130 percent overrun. This is somewhat higher than the average 104 percent cost overrun for major transit projects around the world."

www.carolinajournal.com...

The article continues with regards to the very little impact that light rail has made in the actual number of cars still on the road.

A tough pill to swallow indeed. Just acquiring the necessary land to build this would be a nightmare.

reply to post by aravoth


The Federal Reserve is a group of private corporations who exist on a charter created by the government, as are all corporations. You are trying to blame the government for the actions of private corporations. That is some seriously flawed logic.

By the way, NAFTA isn't our problem, the WTO is our problem, and once again the ability of privately held corporations to prevent world wide labor and environmental standards helped to create this mess. Once again, it was all about investing overseas, rather than investing in our own country.

Government is a tool, either we use it to our advantage, or we let others use it against us. Deregulation has allowed IC's to destroy our country. It is time to take back control, and get our government investing in our our country, rather than building democracy overseas.

Re-building our infrastructure is the only sensible thing to do now.

520 million dollars for 10 miles of train. They could have bought everyone that uses the train an electric scooter and had 100 million left on a bad day.

520 million dollars for 10 miles of train. Extrapolate that out over the whole country. I better get out my Chinese language book and start learning it.

reply to post by poet1b


Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Federal Reserve was created by the congress, and Congress delegated it's responsibility to coin money to that private bank. And now you say the government has no fault there?

And the US didn't have to enter any agreement wit the WTO, that is until the Federal Government in all it's wisdom decided to jump in.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by poet1b


I would say the reason corporations moved manufacturing out of the country has a lot more to do with over regulation and over taxation in the USA. You can build a factory in another country where there are less stringent labor laws, you dont have to pay for health care for the workers, you dont have worry about getting fined by OSHA every time somebody forgets to put on a hard hat, penalized by the EPA for this or that, etc.....

I know several people that own businesses that would love to make there stuff here, but they cant compete if they do. Why cant they compete if they do? Because of over regulation and over taxation.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Neither government nor the market system is some magical entity that solves our problems. People keep talking like this stuff happens automatically, which is nonsense. We either use government as a tool to make things happen, or we flounder and get nowhere.

I didn't say shut down the military, I said shut down the Military Industrial complex. How about if we let private investors build democracies overseas.

Our original rail system wasn't built by investors, it was built with government funding, and the same is true for our Interstate highway system. Why in the world should we expect private investors to rebuild our nations infrastructure, when they didn't build it in the first place.

Once again, are we really that pathetic as a nation that we can not do what our ancestors succeeded at doing in the past?