Understanding Depression (Important Info Everyone Should Know)

Originally posted by ziggy1706
Ive oftem wondered if fluorid was the culprit. I use 2 stage water fitlers alot, bathroom sink, kitchen sink..kitchen sink one was a fluoride fitler in it. Its hard for me to know wether or not im depressed or not, becuase of my job. I work in retail management, and go through so much childish crap allflicted on me, even by pharmacists every day..i have recently been getting anxirty attacks..few weeks ago, i was late for work.in my car for the first time in my life i was not able to suprress the shakes anymore. I could feel 2 top parts of my brain go knumb and feel like they were pressing out. Youde think i had parkinsons disease or something. The weird thing is, im a smoker,marlboros, their the strognest smoothest cigg ive ever had, they calm me down or a few minutes, but makes it worse later on. This is wrok related stress anxiety..screaming boss, hard work no appreciation type of deal. Sad thing is, even te pharmacist knows, but hey make it worse..this is for a CVS in old greenwich CT.
I dont really have thoughts anymore of ending it all...but reading about posibel thyroid gland or aadrenalin makes me think..what coul be triggering them?

Sounds like it is time for a long vacation. My boss, isnt the problem my family is the problem. I have 3 children and my husband. My husband had a brain tumor. He is now in remission. Yet now he cant work due to the economy. So he is still at home every day. My youngest child 6 is autistic so I have her screaming all day long and half of the night. My son is close to having MR. So he is a handful and at age 11 never listens. 5 years ago I was having a heart attack every 3 days due to stress. My son had just gone through being molested so I had to handle that on top of college. and My husband was then terminally ill.

Now I seem to have the heart condition under control, but I do find myself sitting down and just crying sometimes for no reason. I dont drink water with flouride in it. So I know that isnt it.

Originally posted by nerdychemist
Only think at the moment is the liking for sugar, but, I have to get rid of the mercury as I believe the sugar is replacing the sugar being nicked by the Hg

Hi nerdychemist,
Could you expand on this at all? I believe heavy metal toxicity may be part of the problem for a lot of people, including myself, but I don't know much about it, and I don't really understand your equation. The only thing I know is zeolite, and healing clays, and cilantro are sposed to be good to rid yrself of heavy metals.

Originally posted by wylekat
I know what would pull me out of my depression- finding a GOOD wonderful woman who loves me and wouldn't hurt me. Someone to spend my life with...

However- finding such a woman.... She just doesn't exist. Not to mention I'm so ugly, I can make most wild animals flee for their lives...

Hi again,

I wanted to respond to your reply to me, but I couldn't think what to say to you. Now I have something to say, it's just occurred to me.

You have a major advantage over so many people in that you know exactly what you want. You completely spelled it out in this post.

A lot of people never get anywhere because they don't know exactly what they want or what will make them happy so they have no chance of pursuing it.

You know, so all that you have to do is pursue your dream - and catch it. Get rid of that negative attitude - she can exist. You have imagined her, so of course she's possible.

And you scare wild animals do you? Well, you wouldn't want to attract one of them, so where's the problem? And your pets aren't put off by you.

You can think you are ugly if you want to, but when someone loves you all they see is your beauty.

I was watching an old episode of Angel today and one of the characters said something so profound: Serve nothing but your ambition. (I think I've got that right). What a great time to hear that quote. You have an ambition, nothing is standing in your way except your own doubts.

Now, I was just on my way to bed and stopped to make this post, so please give this careful consideration. It's the least you can do.....

A reply to Tentickles...what the frick are you talking about..Man..I wish I had one ounce of the ability you have on expressing ou thoughts..I enjoy you post greatly...you are heads above most of the people on this site..I can't even begin to understand why you feel depressed..with you ability to share/explain your views make me feel like a total moron..

reply to post by Tentickles


We are all bipolar and the reason i say that is not to offend anyone or this so called disorder. What I have been noticing is that everyone is traveling across this spectrum of their consciouss reality, going from one extreme to the other, as they pull up the chosen reaction from what the environment and their occult conscious has given them. As we draw these reactions forth from nowheresvilleto the point where we have a noticeable event occur, or at least mostly noticeable (like breathing or writing a letter), we immediately tend to judge the event and its either going to be a positive or a negative judgment, at the two most extremes. All this time we have been conditioned to react or feel a certain way about certain words or events and they can easily drag someone into trying to solve a problem if the reaction is negative, when in all reality, the reaction to the word or the event IS the problem. when you realize that there is another aspect that you had not seen or been aware of, usually the exact opposite of what you are currently feeling, you can almost hit something like a light switch that can change your outlook forever. Deep Sorrow and Ecstacy are probably the best way i would describe this bipolarity with Ecstacy being positive and Deep Sorrow being negative. When you know that you are either leaning towards deep sorry or ecstasy, you can notice the polarity of your thinking and the way you judge your environment has made you feel this way. It does require an understand of the yin and yang and actually as I was writing this, a yin an yang keeps molding itself around and into and out of what i am saying. And so you could say that on this roller coastery topsy turver love train that we are riding we are grappling with our emotions and what we are bringing forth from out of nowhere, which is likely to be an attempt at your mind trying to better itself.

There is some sort of an event horizon at the center of this polarity and as i cross it more and more towards the positive, I get an amazing sense of, well ecstacy i guess. If the human mind never regresses, and i suspect that it doesnt, then we can totally take the negative and move it towards the positive, in turn making the mean consciousness more positive, we can run straight at ecstacy like a raging bull! x^2

I do kind of fear this thought though because it seems like this could eventually limit emotions to a minimum. I enjoy the broad spectrum of feelings we get but I also think that there is a lot of unnecessary negativity that needs to be cleaned up.

By the way if I believed something positive or something negative or something good or bad or something leaning on ecstasy or something leaning on deep sorry and I try to describe it like say in the something negative case, I am going to describe it negatively and the interesting this is I am actually describing the negativity in myself that I would like to see changed. If I think feel positively about something I am going to describe it positively but also if I describe , say myself, positively and I really mean it, then it should taken seriously as so should the rewards that come with it. Its tough to grasp this but once I did, I started noticing that its the same with other people and that becoming aware of it relieves a pressure off of their shoulders or fills their heart with glee, respectively. Thats why I think mean consciousness should be Shoved or shifted towards positive or ecstasy which is always a good word to help describe the perfect impossibleness of all this.

One last point I would like to make about this thinking is that the truth is somewhere near the middle of the polarity. We each have our own truth, our own spectrum of thought and emotion, and we are each at a different point on this undulating geography of the consciousness field.

Mod Note: Double Post.

Removing content to help thread flow smoother.

[edit on 4-17-2009 by chissler]

reply to post by Tentickles


Awesome thread,ATS needs more like it!Star and flag,good job.I have many family members suffering from depression,myself a little as well.Again good job!

Originally posted by wylekat I know what would pull me out of my depression- finding a GOOD wonderful woman who loves me and wouldn't hurt me. Someone to spend my life with... However- finding such a woman.... She just doesn't exist. Not to mention I'm so ugly, I can make most wild animals flee for their lives...

There is nothing more attractive than self respect. You can unlearn self hate, and start to relearn liking/loving yourself.
When I close my eyes and think of a person I don't 'see ' them physically I 'feel' them, a presence or their charisma if you like. There are people only interested in looks but they are a minority I truly believe
Work out what you like about yourself. Share those parts of you and someone will come in and like them too.

A kind heart in a man who accepts who he is, I think is a catch. If all your time is focused on why you are no good, why would anyone be interested in that?

THANKS TO TENTACLES for starting this thread. you have formed a community here, and as someone who has lost family to depression, I am very proud of you for bravely opening up a subject for people that should be well and truly normal to discuss in society..
Depression is an illness like any other. I talk about it with people, let them speak to me more importantly and I never think of it as a taboo.

We are organic and electric organisms and there is no guarantee you can control 100% what chemical reactions take place in you.

If you break your arm, medically you pop a cast on it...If you are a diabetic, you take insulin without thinking you are a failure for medical intervention, or that the PTB are just enslaving you to make money off you. So then too if your chemicals are out of whack you can balance them out through health programme:
-Medically (not all doctors are capitalist pigs)
-Nutritionally
-Excercsing
-Counselling

All viable options together or individually.

After my loss, I can't say enough for exercising and good food as the best healer of all. Hormones that control our moods are produced from what we ingest then convert and the heat in our body (electricity) comes from movement. No white sugars, or salts only natural sugars through fruit, or Celtic sea salt that has good minerals in it. For those who get depression from Candida, I suggest Slippery elm, Irish moss and probacteria like Yakuult and it will put good flora in your bowels. It helps everyone to have the right balance in bowels first as its the first stage in chemical conversions.
Make serotonin naturally through nutrition and light exercise, as well as medicated if you need.

I'm sure everyone here realises they are in fact NOT alone as they think when they read shared experiences.

Depression is a long road. There are ways to control and finally release it, but we all find it different ways at different times.

My happiest and loving thoughts I'm sending to you all.

Zazzy F

ps drink loads of water and flush out toxins, we are mostly H2o so keep that all topped up and fresh as much as you all can

[edit on 16-4-2009 by zazzafrazz]

depression, to me, is just another word for selfishness...if a depressed person spent half the time thinking about others instead of how depressing their lives are, they would cease to be depressed....
the focus on self can be destructive and most of us are unaware of this truism...

if you are depressed...whatever the reason(everyone suffers and you cannot measure pain) than its time to stop thinking about yourself. Instead think about how much more others suffer and think of things that you can do, as an individual, to generate positivity in others lives...

the amazing thing about the human brain is that it can choose the attitude that it brings into reality ...

reply to post by iiinvision


Yours is not so much a selfish post as a incredibly ignorant one.

Just because it is 'brain' doesn't mean that it can be 'controlled' by conscious thought. Conscious thought is part of brain. Nor does it mean that this organ can't have illness, just like getting a cancer in a organ, diabetes, and so on.

The hormones that control your moods can be stronger than others.

You are saying that conscious thought controls chemical behavior in this organ.

How incredibly niaive.




[edit on 16-4-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Good topic that you started.

Depression does run on my Dad's side of our family. As a 47 yr old that struggled through middle school, high school, college, having to re read some sentences several times before I got it while trying to block out all sights, sounds, smells, etc...

I knew I wasn't dumb, though couldn't figure out why others got it and I didn't. Tests given to me with a window of time doomed me(not my words, though I discovered this 40 years later).

I was diagnosed having ADD, which is a chemical imbalance and such. I am sure I have some dyslexia also.

What hurt me (p*ssed me off) the most was being put in the 2nd or 3rd reading group in 2nd Grade when all the hot girls were in the 1st reading group(Chris W., Donna B., Renee, etc...)!!!!! NOT KIDDING!!! That was my reality back then!

I now take ritilin which has changed my world. It does the opposite to me, instead of speeding me up, it slows me down, where now I can focus and concentrate, meaning, I can block out outside distractions. Some people are hyper focused, like one of my brothers at times, where you can't break his attention. I am hyper sensitive, I hear see, feel everything, Everything, like when I am driving. It worked well for many of my sports, SoloII, motocross, hockey, water skiing(slalom comp), snow skiing(racing, slalom,GS), and many more.

It makes sense now, in my work environment, I always need sound masking, and a small fan when I sleep to drown out the robber breaking in or the lady humping upstairs(kidding), I think you get the picture though.


I have a great family Dr, and like me, he has a real problem with the Drug Business. Some are a true benefit, but drugs are almost never the first solution.


1. Diet

2. Exercise

3. Meds,

IN THIS ORDER!




I know this doesn't apply to every situation and case.

I rambled on, now I will go back and read the threads I skipped.

reply to post by iiinvision


Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. If a Depressed person thinks about how bad others have it, it just tends to make things worse. That's what makes Depression so insidious. It locks you into a cycle where you only see the bad, or wait for bad things to happen, and you CAN'T break it, without something changing, sometimes changing drastically.

At the time I was diagnosed I was in a period of my life that was so bad that it literally has people asking me how I'm still alive, and haven't gone crazy. I tried everything I could think of, from talking to someone, to professional counseling, to medication. Thinking that someone without a roof over their head was freezing somewhere in the world wouldn't have done anything except to make it worse for me.

Depression doesn't just "go away", and people with it aren't cruel, or selfish, or anything else I've heard them described as, and they certainly aren't crazy. If someone thinks they're suffering from this, or has a friend suffering from it, they need to get help or get them help. SOMETIMES, just knowing that someone is out there, and knows that they're suffering, and is willing to help is enough to break the cycle, even if it's for one day. One day of relief was like a ray of sunshine for me at my worst.

There are a LOT of Depressed individuals that throw themselves into helping others, and doing everything they can to help others out, right up until the day the kill themselves. They may have seemed like well rounded people, that were happy, and were happy helping others out, and then suddenly, for no known reason, they kill themselves. Obsession over helping others out CAN be a sign of Depression, because they want to see that others are worse than they are, and help them. The problem is that as they see how bad others have it, it triggers something in them that gets them locked into a mentality that there's nothing that they can do, and it will never be alright again. Sooner or later it just takes all the strength out of them, and they do something to get out of it.

[edit on 4/16/2009 by Zaphod58]

I had serious oxidative stress after the death of my little brother, Aaron in 2006. The stress & depression piled on. After I had a long-time friend turn foe, I became psychotic last year. Insomnia, delusions, severe depression followed by bouts of mania, severe inner tension, & partial lack of insight.

I looked into alternative treatment when I was sane, and came across orthomolecular therapy. I went to a center and was found to have a marker for a metabolic disorder. It's called pyroluria. It leaves me severely deficient in several nutrients, including niacin (b3) & pyridoxine (b6) which are needed to synthesize serotonin from tryptophan.

After supplementing, it just took some time for my brain to manufacture the serotonin & then my neurochemistry slowly normalized. I last added evening primrose oil & my mania disappeared! It's a bit more involved to explain why, but let's just say it's hopefully the last tune-up to my treatment that levels me out.

Depression can be devastating. It's impossible for me to judge someone based solely on their neurochemistry now. I see food allergens & environmental pollutants interacting with biochemically individualized people. I see addicts self-medicating, the homeless self-preserving, and the wicked as suffering the most.

Hi Tentickles, thank you for sharing your story, and you're right, is in an important issue which I too feel is only discussed and/or taken seriously when it has become serious (ie, near fatal). I was first put on anti-depressants when I was 16, much to my protests...I don't know, I mean I was depressed, but it was more a reaction to not being able to be myself. I'm a pretty outside of the box girl and have always walked to the beat of my own drum. As a little kid, I loved being me - it was so entertaining and magical. Come school and the ridiculous politics and scrutiny, of course I was depressed!!

Anyways, up until the age of 26, had been on 6 different kinds. The only one (and the last one) that worked for me was Effexor XR BUT, after being on it for 3 years, it nearly killed me coming off the damn thing. You see, I kept persisting with doctors, psychs, that they were missing something, and finally I was diagnosed as Adult ADHD, meaning because I wasn't diagnosed as a kid, I never learned the social tools to handle it. I was a hurricane! So onto the max dose of Dexamphetamines and no more Effexor. For 9 weeks, I could hardly move from this Effexor detox (yes, even with 50mg of amphetamines a day!). I had to take a month of work, when I was at work, I had to nap in my lunch break and again when I got home, I was in extreme pain around my neck, shoulder, back etc, flushes, cramps the list goes on. I later learnt that these skeletal problems were probably there for quite a few years, but the antidepressants were telling my brain everything was hunky dory. Finally it was completely out of my system. I've dated a heroin addict (I didn't know at the time) and let me just say his withdrawals looked good compared to Effexor, so be wary all. If anyone is taking it, make sure you wean off it for at least 3 months.

So, the Dexies, as I affectionately call them, worked an absolute miracle! I was doing art again, reading again, being active - all the things I loved to do as a youngster came back into my life. This lasted about 6 months then BOOM, depression, laziness, no go at all. 6 months after that - MANIA! CREATIVITY! Then 6 months later, the worst depression I had ever experienced. It was different - I was so damn paranoid, thinking my boyfriend was up to all kinds of weird #e, hearing people outside my window, hearing people at my work conspiring to get me fired. I went through 4 jobs in like 5 months. I was drinking every day, smoking pot, and each weekend like clockwork I would go psychotic. I would focus on some silly paranoia, drink it away with a bottle of scotch and then before I knew it, I'd be curled in a ball outside in the dirt trying to decide how to kill myself. It was like I was possessed. I was trying so hard to reach out to my family, my doctor, because I knew something was wrong, and no advice would fix it because it was like someone was flicking switches in my head. FInally, I diagnosed myself as bipolar and then had it confirmed by my psych, who put me on meds. He denies it, but I think the use of dexamphetamines brought it on. And weed.

Okay, sorry about the long post. The thing that really got me though, was recalling group therapy with my psych before all this crap happened. ALL of his other patients were on the exact same meds as me, and none of them had made progress, like me. Some had been seeing him for 20 plus years. I've tried several times to get him to prescribe me alternatives, but he refuses. Now, it really seems to me that his diagnoses are very convenient to the pharmaceutical companies (LILY and Pfizer).

[cont] I decided to just listen to my body, my history, all that jazz instead of trusting doctors. I went to stay with my parents in the country for 2 months to detox and weed out stressors/helpers. I found without any meds I couldn't control myself. I obviously wanted to quit drinking, start eating right etc, but I just could not for the life of me manage it. So I started taking the bipolar meds and the dexies again, same time each day, with food, and within 2 days I stopped drinking (been 5 months now), but was still paranoid. I also started waking the same time and going to bed the same time each day, exercising and eating the same time each day. I noticed that if I missed a day of exercise, I would get very moody.

Eventually I pinpoited caffeine as the trigger for paranoia, and drugs. I started drinking organic macrobiotic coffee and it really diminished the paranoia by at least 80%, which I find interesting. I'm slowly weening my way down to decaf.

Looking back, I can't help but feel all my medications stuffed up the natural evolving of my brain, and body...it seems to rely on outside sources, quick fixes, more than ever. I'm determined to retrain the old brain though, even if it takes years. A good start is, I've finally found the solution to my afflictions - I've learned how to be myself. I've rediscovered the things I'm good at, and that I love, and I've learned not to expect others to applaud me for it - that just leads to disappointment. Anyone experiencing some social isolation or distortion of their reality, I highly recommend seeing someone like a life coach, spiritual counsellor, or getting some cognitive behavioural therpay. And hold tight to that which you value, whether it's a belief system, hobby, fetish , because that is YOU, and someone telling you it is wrong is THEM, NOT YOU. Trust your instincts and build up an invisible coat of armour. Slings and arrows etc...

I truly hope my words are of help to some, and not offensive in any way - sometimes I express myself how I think, which is different to others, hence, my version of helping is sometimes others' version of intruding or offending. So please, this is all from the heart guys, go easy

[edit on 16-4-2009 by mels_bells]

reply to post by HiAliens


I dont know if this has been posted yet but... I read recently ( I will have to go find the link later) that Candida can be killed with Coconut oil, at least 3 teaspoons a day. I just recently purchased the cold pressed organic solid coconut oil from my farmers market, massive tub of it for $5.00.
People swear buy the stuff for all kinds of ailments (weight loss, hair loss, fingernails, skin, overall well being) and to kill the candida in the stomach.

Also another big one is Vitamin D, Vitamin D, Vitamin D. Get some today and not the crap from GNC look for high quality no fillers.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by iiinvision

 

Yours is not so much a selfish post as a incredibly ignorant one.

Just because it is 'brain' doesn't mean that it can be 'controlled' by conscious thought. Conscious thought is part of brain. Nor does it mean that this organ can't have illness, just like getting a cancer in a organ, diabetes, and so on.

The hormones that control your moods can be stronger than others.

You are saying that conscious thought controls chemical behavior in this organ.

How incredibly niaive.




[edit on 16-4-2009 by zazzafrazz]

CANT...thats all I see from you...

CANT

let us look at the word can't. CanNOT....this word has more power than you think. If you believe hormones and the like control your mood than you have given up before even trying.

Im guessing a. you don't meditate and b. illness really doesn't have much to do with depression.

Everybody suffers. Everybody has a reason to be depressed. But when you allow circumstances to control your own reality and you are giving in to weakness. Sure there are tough emotions, but nothing anyone cannot get over. There will always someone that is in a more unfortunate situation, and when a ''depressed'' person realizes this to its full extent they can stop thinking about how dreary their life is and do something constructive with it as opposed to moping about and feeling sorry for themselves.

I say this being as I used to consider myself depressed. I don't feel as if I need to talk about my suffering because despite my suffering, I know others have suffered just as much if not more than me. I focus on other things like good times and fun and friends. I focus on enjoying life and spreading love. If you are focused on these things or other things, you have no time to feel sorry for yourself.

So for you to assume that I am ignorant about depression is simply your own brains' defense mechanism and its quite understandable to be dismayed at my synopsis of ''depression'' being nothing more than selfishness.

You can't really understand what Im saying unless you know how to focus, meditate, or concentrate. To exercise the mind so that you can control it better.

If you just go around thinking hormones control your brain and you have no power over the regulation of such hormones, or no power over controlling your attitude then you are STUCK in your reality tunnel and you will continue to have no power as long as you allow yourself to be powerless...


your thoughts control your reality and with effort you can control your attitude and mindset...

it truly amuses/amazes me...this universe and all the energy within it

before you go labeling people ignorant I suggest you read books like Quantum Psychology, Prometheus Rising, Reframing by Richard Bandler, books by BF Skinner...learn about Pavlov and his experiments and look at what Timothy Leary was talking about before he took too much acid.

Go ahead and have a sweat ceremony on a native american reservation or fast for several days. Test the strength of your own mind and perhaps, in time, you will learn that you don't have to be mentally lazy all the time. you have a lot more power over your mood/mindset/attitude/reality than you know...

cheers

understand this i thought this was a medical issue forum

depression is not a medical issue!

medical affects the physical body and sitting in the dark cutting yourself witha straight razor is not something that can be fixed in some post op.


geez every time i click on the medical forum i expect to see medical news and information since i am going to med school and then i see this stuff which offends me since it is off topic and useless.

depression is not a medical condition its a state of mind and i have a medical cure lobotomy!

my personal experience on the subject is, that my father was on anti-anxiety medicine, which he stopped for a little, while i was away visiting my girlfriend in college, and he ended up choking my mother... needless to say, im not going to leave her alone here again...

but now he stopped taking them, and i can honestly say (with some credibility, having studied psychology, in school and freetime) that he is bordering on bipolarity

and... said girlfriend ended up having to have medicine too, she would go completely nuts, fly off the handle, freak out, constantly think about killing herself, and with the medicine, she still gets sad, but when its necessary, not when "something bad" happened (like her getting a C and not a B)..

with 100 percent honesty i can say, i have thought about killing myself, more than anyone else should, and i've wanted to do it, gun in my hand, very close. in those days I begged my parents (who thought it was just a phase) to let me see someone, get some medicine, some kind of help, and it never ever came. and of course, when i do feel like its all pointless, that plays into my depression more than anything. so people that say that they're going to tell people to stop taking their meds, i completely disagree, my father says it about my girlfriend, if she were to stop taking them, she would kill herself, no doubt in it..

but all in all, its everyones decision, you should let those people make it on their own, because you might think you know people, but you really dont, you cant be sure they tell you everything they think...

reply to post by iiinvision


Thanks for your advice, but its not needed by me or possibly anyone else here on the thread.

If you had read my post, I don't suffer depression and you have made assumptions that I dont meditate nor look after myself which are infact incorrect. I have a very happy outlook on life. But I am not so SELFISH to project opinions from my own experiences as gospel and to assume that someone is making up depression in the mind.
I am UNSELFISH in trying to understand scientifically what the chemical and organic makeup of the brain is. I can be scientific enough about it to understand that chemical processes DO affect mood and I suggested they treat it with positive attitude, good food, excercise, counselling, medication if required.
As a woman, monthly I get bad pains that are CAUSED by hormones (womens business) that no matter how much I TELL my body dont hurt me please, it will. I can be in as good a mood as I like, do Yoga but I will get down and be in pain because of HORMONES. YOu must be a guy to not understand that part.

If I had my arm cut off and I repeated in my mind over and over "I have an arm, it has grown back" this will not happen no matter how much positive 'the secret ' chanting or NAttive Indian reserve sweating and fasting I put towards it.

I live with the power of thought over life, but in this dimension it is linked by PHYSICAL. Unfortunatley not everyone here can go chant and sweat on a native indian reservation, but WOW Im sure that's realsitic advice. It works for you, not others. You are projecting what worked for you as the ONLY solution and that is SELFISH. You are convincing everyone too much that there is no such thing as depression, perhaps as a self denial that for a while you were physically and mentally 'not superior'. As for the book list, done them, but again I dont need your "suggestions" nor assumptions that I haven't read them.

Lucky you got out of depression, pity you didnt learn empathy for people. What a horrible thing to write on a thread with some people who are really in trouble. It's a sign of someone who isnt as far out of being down as they think if you project that kind of cruelty to others....







[edit on 17-4-2009 by zazzafrazz]