Remember The Tank Man!!! Why Communism Is Not The Answer Now or Ever!

With the U.S.A. in an economic meltdown of unprecedented proportions, some feel that capitalism has failed. I keep seeing threads with the idea that communism might be the answer. While I have not seen one thread yet that put forth any viable reason as to why Communism is a desireable form of government, I intend to post here one reason why it is not acceptable. This set of video footage is a documentary on the 1989 Massacre in Tiananmen Square. Communism is not the answer.




















[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

That really has nothing to do with communism. That's the result of a dictatorship, and similar events have happened in every dictatorship.

But I'm puzzled about all the threads you keep seeing that propose communism? I haven't seen one here, ever....

The truth is both communism and capitalism are flawed, instrinsically. The Scandinavian countries which are capitalistic too in todays world, and monied, have something that the US and China do not have (for both the US, UK and China share a common theme, believe it or not, and the Scandinavian countries share a common theme. The distribution of power. It doesn't have to do with how you blend the ability to create economy and industry versus social obligations, tax dollars boomeranging back to their citizens in superlative programs, or equalizing wealth between individuals. Thats core to a civilized world and most of the world isn't as civil! What it really has to do with is fascism (Communist China), fascism (pseudo democracy UK and US, which really operates like an illegal pyramid scheme monopoly, mascarading as a free-enterprise and capitalism, versus real democracy, grass roots, non-bloodline democracy, and sharing of power with the people. This is called proportional democracy.

Proportional democracy is the highest model of democracy or any form of government on the planet. Unlike the winner take all model, the percentages you vote for fill the house. Ie. a man like our BC premier cannot win a majority government on 40% roughly vote in his riding and province wide, with 60% split between the green and ndp. Because in proportional democracy 60% green and ndp would fill the house. All governments become minority and need to learn to cooperate. People and their public input actually carries weight. Many more parties, ie. non-bloodline elite ones, get formed and actually win seats. Many more women run. Consequently you see wonderful programs and shared wealth, along with very good world businesses. Its a win win situation.

This, done in a moneyless resource society, sort of like the venus project, without any patents or ownership of any inventions or ideas, and people driven, would be a very good world to live in. Everything else is massive child abuse.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
That really has nothing to do with communism. That's the result of a dictatorship, and similar events have happened in every dictatorship.

exactly, if we get to a time when a computer will be smart enough and be programmed just for truth, than socialism may work in its real form. Until then huamns will always be beasts at the top.

Capitalism is just as bad, and not free market at all. We all live in a world left of center, not right of center. Anarchy or socialism, are the real right or left paradigms. We live in a world where we choose really what form of left sided government we have, we are never really in the right hand side of that equation.

Democracy is never the answer, as its just mob rule, if the mob doesn't like you they can vote to kill you. What sort of rubbish system is that. Thats why everyone pretends to be a sheep just to get along.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by andy1033]

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


China has nothing to do with communism? I am hoping you would expound on that thought.

The Communist Party of China (CPC), also known as the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), is the founding and the ruling political party of the People's Republic of China and the world's largest political party

en.wikipedia.org...

Pro Communism thread here

[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

Originally posted by andy1033
exactly, if we get to a time when a computer will be smart enough and be programmed just for truth, than socialism may work in its real form. Until then huamns will always be beasts at the top.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by andy1033]

Are you suggesting that a form of govenment ran by a computer would be superior?

And in a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.

Democracy or rather proportional is the answer. You have only to do a little research to realize that certain countries have been shining their lights for a very long time, and have the highest standards of living in the world, with highly educated people, and actually do the next step, adopt their systems.

One of my friends family escaped from Hungary just before the curtain fell, ironically, and after living in Canada under a conservative federal government, and working hard, she told me that she could hardly tell the difference between the right winged politics here, and Communism, in how it translated for the common person. No, she didn't have huge lineups for necessities, but she worked just as hard, and the only thing she had to show for it was a vcr. Her food was limited, her housing poor and not suitable for her family. She could have stayed there for the same abuse.

Representative democracy doesnt cut it at all, and is just a tool to seem like people are in control, but really they're ruled.

reply to post by mystiq


In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.

A republic and a democracy are nearly identical...In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Our Republic (United States) is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy.

www.1215.org...


[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

Please everyone take the time to watch all parts of this post. It is truly awe inspiring and also a picture of how one person can make a change. It will change the way you see the obstacles before you.

Can you imagine the potential for abuse in a world where a computer, programmed for truth (who's truth?), runs the world. Yikes! Would anyone care for a steaming hot cup of Diebold soup?


Vote Qumiby!

reply to post by RKWWWW


That would be a diabolical system, run by a computer. Remember Hal?
Killer Hal Computer in Space Oddessy Hal became an evil villian!

It was ranked #13 on a list of greatest film villains of all time on the AFI's 100 Years... 100 Heroes and Villains.

There will come a time when a computer will be able to tell all truth in any matter. It will be able to tell if your lying, can go back over your whole life, and tell if you have commited a crime. It will be absolute truth over society. I doubt it will be programmed by people, as computers will eventually teach themslves, will they not.

I doubt any human will be able to do a better job. Plus its the only way a human society can truely be socialist, and be equal for everyone.

I know some may have some doubts, but maybe there will be a time when such a computer exists,a nd is better than all of us, and does things that are just for truth and whats right.

reply to post by andy1033


Perhaps the scenario you refer to is something out of a science fiction movie, such as Terminator. That kind of a theory makes for good movies, like Space Oddessy, where eventually Hal sought to destroy the people on his ship because he percieved they were a threat to him; Not unlike the elitest PTB that potentially seek to destroy 90% of the worlds poulation as they are a threat to the "fertile abundant earth" that they wish to have all to themselves. And not unlike communist China, that limits female population through forced abortions, and sterilzations, to create a society that the governments percieves "desireable"

Hell yeah! Tank man is awesome! Love that guy!

Well, democracy won't restrict the minority if that is watched for. That is to say, democracy being flawed, is not really true because it obviously is the only way. The flaw comes in the gaps through which the jerkwads will try to wreck the vote or oppress the minority.

I do agree with the statement that "tech" will become the central holy grail for this problem, but again as mentioned, who wants a Deibold machine? No, the machine would have to be verifiable at a granular level. Proprietary tech will never succeed as dreamed up here. I am saying that tech as such (wonderful little gadgets) will ultimately be the lifeline which humans reach for. It could be bad or good, depending on the transparency.

I do like the idea of a commune tho. I get to pursue the appreciation of nature at an intense level while planting beans and so on. But communes don't work on a large scale and the Soviet farming experiments proved that a disaster, yet the nation saved themselves collectively through their little garden plots. So a small apartment for example would have a commune-type garden which fed the whole building because the government was being imploded and looted. I am saying that small scale farming is the biggest solution which Americans need to detach from their mental picture of what is evil about communism.

What is evil about communism: Large scale farming failures and large, growing prison populations/gulags. These can also crop up in any other government also. The specifics have not been discussed enough, so thanks for this thread.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Hell yeah! Tank man is awesome! Love that guy!
...What is evil about communism: Large scale farming failures and large, growing prison populations/gulags. These can also crop up in any other government also. The specifics have not been discussed enough, so thanks for this thread.

I can not watch the one part enough times...where he stands, jumps, moves side to side, and finally when the tank stops, he climbs up on it and bangs on the tank! Love it...just got to admire a spirit like that!

It is evil when a government oppresses the people. Food has always been used to manipulate the populice...this century's total killed by absolutist governments already far exceeds that for all wars, domestic and international. Indeed, this number already approximates the number that might be killed in a nuclear war.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6559af31959b.gif[/atsimg]

It is sad that hundreds of thousands of people can be killed by
governments with hardly an international murmur, while a war killing several thousand people can cause an immediate world outcry and global reaction.

www.textfiles.com...
www.hawaii.edu...

Originally posted by burntheships
It is evil when a government oppresses the people. Food has always been used to manipulate the populice...this century's total killed by absolutist governments already far exceeds that for all wars, domestic and international. Indeed, this number already approximates the number that might be killed in a nuclear war.

Good links and good info. Yes, we agree on the food issue.

Part of the reason I am always ranting about native ways is that these people know how to feed themselves right here in America. I mean I'm not talking about "A Country Boy an Survive" where you need a .22 I'm talking about knowing what plants are edible and so on. I think Americans are being purposefully distanced from this knowledge.

Although it's not food related, I think milkweed is a good example because so many people died from it when all it took was one native woman to point out that Indians had always known it was poisonous. Abe Lincoln's mom died only a few years before this was widely understood. Point is this: No communist party can ever tell a farmer or a person who really knows the land, what to do. The natives of the soviet states knew how to farm and they knew what they could produce. The circuit of actual knowledge proceeds from the farm to the city, not the other way around.

reply to post by smallpeeps


Thank you, and thanks for your contribution to this thread. Your comments are so true. Knowledge is power...especially when it comes to food, farming and production. Definitely agreed that a 22 will never feed anyone, only to protect food, or take food.

The U.S. government has been effective in distancing it's populace from the knowledge of sustainable gardening and farming...thankfully we still have the internet from now. Corporations like Monsanto do the evil bidding with small farms as targets and non gmo seeds control.

With corporations llike Mosanto that have all the governments backing with legislation like CODEX...our "Republic" is a danger to it's own citizens.

If you think China is communist just because it's in the party name, you are delusional. They are the most highly capitalistic state on the planet. They also happen to have an authoritarian government. There is a difference between economic and governmental systems, but I guess there's a lot of disinfo out there trying to confuse the average person.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by mystiq

 

In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by burntheships]

That is not democracy that you are describing. That is fascism. Democracy always has a place for the minority to be represented.
You guys need to go back to school.

reply to post by CapsFan8


Perhaps someone is having delusions...but it is not I.

In political science, a Communist state is a state with a form of government characterized by single-party rule of a Communist party and a professed allegiance to a communist ideology as the guiding principle of the state.

Communist states may have several legal political parties, but the Communist party is usually granted a special or dominant role in government, often by statute or under the constitution. Consequently, the institutions of the state and of the Communist party become intimately entwined, such as in the development of parallel institutions.

While almost all claim lineage to Marxist thought, there are many varieties of Communist states, with indigenous adaptions. For Marxist-Leninists, the state and the Communist Party claim to act in accordance with the wishes of the industrial working class; for Maoists, the state and party claim to act in accordance to the peasantry. Under Deng Xiaoping, the People's Republic of China proclaimed a policy of "socialism with Chinese characteristics." In most Communist states, governments assert that they represent the democratic dictatorship of the proletariat.

Most Communist states adopted planned economies. However, there are exceptions: The Soviet Union during the 1920s and Yugoslavia after World War II allowed limited markets and a degree of worker self-management, while China and Vietnam have introduced far-reaching market reforms since the 1980s.

en.wikipedia.org...