Somali pirates seize another boat

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Is the Somalian coast a toxic waste dump?

HI, spacedoubt: maybe it's not, but someone was even killed after investigating on it:

Ilaria Alpi (May 24, 1961 — March 20, 1994) was an Italian journalist killed in Mogadishu, Somalia together with her camera operator Miran Hrovatin under mysterious circumstances.

Ilaria Alpi was born in Rome and worked for Italian RAI state television. At the time of the murder, she was following a case of weapon and illegal toxic waste traffic in which she believed also the Italian Army and other institutions were involved.

en.wikipedia.org...

See also: Death in somalia.

Well said Iternos. As usual the mayhem that erupts in third world countries is the product of first world trifling.

The way it works in Africa is thusly; independent African countries remain under the sphere of influence of their former colonial masters. In the case of Somalia, it was divided into three sectors that were controlled by Italy, Britain and France.

As colonial occupiers each of these countries had different characteristics in the application of power. The Italians preferred to subjugate and exploit and the British used influence and power politics to exploit but in the case of British Somaliland they were unusually benign. The French used assimilation and Francophonisation to create client states.

Each of these interventions still exists today in all the former colonies in Africa. You may recall the genocide in Rwanda were the Francophone Hutu nearly liquidated the Anglophone Tutsi. The tactics of using the Rwandan broadcast system to coordinate the genocide was known by the French security services.

Didot was a high-level specialist in repairing radio communications, but did not, according to Colonel Jean-Jacques Maurin, specialize in surveillance. His job was to ensure that the French embassy communications worked, as well as the equipment of the other members of the remaining military force.

He was also in charge of training members of the FAR in radio communications and maintaining the radio station of Habyarimana’s army. Didot had fitted a large radio antenna onto the roof of his Kigali home and it is this, it was assumed, that led to his murder.

www.rwandagateway.org...

Didot was among several French 'civilians' in Rwanda that died under mystrious circumstances, some of whom posthumously received the Legion of Honour - a military award.


The high seas piracy off the coast of Somalia has another side to the story. Most of the fish has been vacuumed out the area thanks to Italian and Japanese factory ships. The desert sea scape is now the dumping ground of toxic waste was from Europe that Italian companies are immensely successful in tendering under European competitive tendering regulations. While Italian bluechip companies engage in the legit tendering, the subcontractors to them is the Italian criminal underworld.

This what the pirates say;

A spokesman for the pirates, who reportedly use the autonomous region of Puntland as their base, told Al Jazeera some of the ransom money will be used to help clean up waters off the Somali coast ravaged by years of toxic waste dumping. The ransom demand is a means of “reacting to the toxic waste that has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years,” the spokesman said.

news.newamericamedia.org...

Now that the Obama government is sending war ships into the area, it will be only a matter of time before these pirates will be designated terrorists and the butchery will commence.

Duplicate.

[edit on 113030p://am3023 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by internos


Wow, Internos, thanks for that. I feel kind of ignorant of the region.
It makes me wonder about everyone's motivation.

And the way these journalists were executed, and very specific items made to go missing. Specifically notebooks, and tapes of interviews.
There a lot of money to be made in the dumping of waste.

Seems that the waste dumping could have been used as an excuse for patrolling of the waters long ago.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Do a blockade of Somalia then. Inspect every ship that come out of there.

No navy in the world can control 2 million square miles of ocean.

'Nuff said.
That option is just not reasonable unless the current Multi-National Task Force shows an initiative to form a coordinated Naval Blockade, which they don't and won't.

None of those countries like each other, nor want to help each other's cargo move through the area safely.

You've got a token force of hostile nations held together by the premise that if they stay there and pretend they're doing something about piracy, the world will look the other way.

Somalia is a third world cesspit anyway, they don't export anything, it won't be a problem to inspect all ships going there.

Another uninformed remark.

The Gulf of Aden and surrounding waters around the Horn of Africa see an enormous tonnage of cargo pass through each year.
Not the least of which are oil tankers from the Gulf going into the Suez. It's one of the world's busiest sea lanes.

Fishing is one of Somali's largest industries and a they operate a ton of fishing trawlers.

To positively check and identify every ship in the pirate's possible range of operations is physically impossible. Forget that idea.

Without hijacking ships or having ransom, they won't be able to buy those weapons. And the biggest thing they have is a RPG... or a few AK-47... nothing to be afraid of.

Somali militias (from which the majority of pirates originate), especially the Islamically-oriented ones, receive a lot of arms and aid from nearby Muslim states.
Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Chad and Libya for starters. The former Islamic Courts Union of Somalia was a Fundamentalist government which at one point in 2006, held control of most of Somalia.

That period of reign saw the massive importation of arms from other Fundamentalist states and regimes.

Pirates have far more to work with than AK's and RPG's.
Recoilless rifles, grenade launchers, heavy-calibre Soviet machine guns (like the 12.7mm DshK), even anti-aircraft cannons and a limited number of artillery pieces and mortars.

They're going to be more than a match for any Cargo ship being defended by a bunch of seaman with pistols and MP5's or whatever.
You'd need security contractors to provide competent defence and that just won't happen due to insurance premiums and the laws of the sea.

[edit on 12/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by xbranscombex


What can be done!?

I realize the "main" area in which most boats are captured is the size of Texas. It's impossible to patrol it all...

Drones, perhaps? Kill on site.

That's what happens. International waters, heck I guess you can do anything?

That includes missile attacks against armed somalia pirates?

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here's an idea... maybe the ships should stop going into the somalian seas to illegally fish there and the "pirate" attacks would stop.

reply to post by Falnath


Most ships taken are cargo ships, tugs, yachts. Nothing to do with fishing. Most of them taken were taken in international waters, or all the way over near YEMEN. There were only a couple that were taken in Somali waters.

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[edit on 12/4/09 by cbianchi513]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Falnath

 

Most ships taken are cargo ships, tugs, yachts. Nothing to do with fishing. Most of them taken were taken in international waters, or all the way over near YEMEN. There were only a couple that were taken in Somali waters.

In that case you Americans shouldn't be bothered about inviting the Italians to dump Europe's toxic waste a few miles off the coast of the US; in international waters of course.

As for taking "cargo ships, tugs, yachts", what do you expect fishermen to do now that all the fish probably ended up as tinned tuna fish down your gullet?

reply to post by masonwatcher


If you're defending your waters, you don't go into another countries waters, and take boats that had nothing to do with it. And you don't take the ransoms that are paid and stick them in your own pocket and make yourself rich.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

If you're defending your waters, you don't go into another countries waters, and take boats that had nothing to do with it. And you don't take the ransoms that are paid and stick them in your own pocket and make yourself rich.

Did the pirates go into another country's waters? I don't think so, nor do I think their fishing boats can get to Yemen waters and back without being intercepted.

Most territorial waters are upto 2 miles but jurisdictional limits extend to 200 miles or more so when factory ships from Europe and Japan draw drag nets for tens of mile scooping up all living things in the region and then toxic waste dumped into the ecosystem, you can bet your bottom dollar people will react.

As for pocketing the loot, I read that the pirates hand out the money to members of their community rather than getting rich and jetting to Vegas.

reply to post by masonwatcher


There is a map of the pirate attacks in 2008, and all but a very small handful of them are right on the edge of Yemeni waters, or IN Yemeni waters. There were only a few that were even on the edge of Somali waters.

From what I've heard they spread SOME of the money to their community, but a large portion of it stays in their pockets or goes to more weapons to use to take more ships.

Why aren't we sending out bait ships?

I realize civilian vessels cannot be legally armed... but what about sending out a team of seals, doesn't matter from which country, in a vessel that looks civilian?

Let the pirates take the bait, then raise the 50 cals and put an end to some of em.


After a few retaliations like that, I'll bet a number of pirates will be hesitant to go after another ship for fear that it might be another bait ship.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
From what I've heard they spread SOME of the money to their community, but a large portion of it stays in their pockets or goes to more weapons to use to take more ships.

Some of the ransom money goes to pay for training obtained from al-Shabab and other extremist, militant, or terrorist-linked groups in Somalia.

Some of the ransom money is paid to controlling territorial clans and warlords.

Some of the ransom money is paid to Somalia provincial governments.

From what i have seen, I think one of the first news reports, and when this started to gain steam was back in 2005.

I just have a few things to add, along with some extracts from articles I have been reading.

1. Shipping companies may have to pay extra cash for what has been happening:

As a ragtag group of gunmen faced off for days against the U.S. Navy near the coast of Somalia before a cargo ship captain was freed Sunday, industry-watchers say shipping companies already smarting from the global downturn are forced to pony up extra cash for steeper premiums to cover multimillion dollar ransoms or take the long way around African continent in the hope of dodging hijackers.

2. Pirates range has expanded:

The Saudi supertanker Sirius Star was captured by pirates six months ago while deep in the Indian Ocean, far from the pirates' traditional hunting ground.

3. Troupes may be sent to Somalia for the 'war on terror'.

The standoff between the U.S. Navy and pirates off the coast of Somalia is generating debate within the Obama administration over policy toward the Horn of Africa nation. The Washington Post has a report Saturday on how U.S. officials are discussing the more general Somalia problem, and the potential terrorist threat of the Somali extremist group, al-Shabab.

I'm still reading up on the history of Somalia.

Originally posted by johnsky
Why aren't we sending out bait ships?

I realize civilian vessels cannot be legally armed... but what about sending out a team of seals, doesn't matter from which country, in a vessel that looks civilian?

Let the pirates take the bait, then raise the 50 cals and put an end to some of em.


After a few retaliations like that, I'll bet a number of pirates will be hesitant to go after another ship for fear that it might be another bait ship.

You may not be too far off the mark... A fire team aboard during the transit through hostile waters may be something we see on US flag ships.

I'm sure the idea has been proposed, and at the very least there have been increased attention paid to the stern at night...

I'm not really sure how that would go over internationally, but I could easily see this quietly happening presently.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

There is a map of the pirate attacks in 2008, and all but a very small handful of them are right on the edge of Yemeni waters, or IN Yemeni waters. There were only a few that were even on the edge of Somali waters.

I think your assertion deserves a link. Can you provide a link to this map you describe?

reply to post by Seekerof

Some of the ransom money goes to pay for training obtained from al-Shabab and other extremist, militant, or terrorist-linked groups in Somalia.

Can you provide evidence for this statement since in all likelihood such a belief will inevitably lead to the deaths of thousands of civilians in the War on Terror. I am of the view that the piracy is an economic conflict; self help if you will just like Robin Hood.

Incidentally, where have al-Shabab committed a terror act to be classified as terrorist?

Some of the ransom money is paid to controlling territorial clans and warlords.

I am of the view that clans, consisting of people related to each other, have every right to control their territory. The warlords do not need the pirate loot since they get subsidies from the US and UK.

Some of the ransom money is paid to Somalia provincial governments.

These provincial governments in Somaliland and Puntland are striving for international recognition and wish to secede from the south. Associating them with piracy, which probably has connections with US and Italian criminal syndicates, will ruin their struggle for self determination. You will have to substantiate your allegations.

reply to post by masonwatcher


I already put it up in one thread, but I'll put it up again.

In 2005/2006 most of the attacks were close to the Somali coast. In 2007/2008 there were a lot more of them near Yemeni and in international waters.

Here are some piracy maps from various years.

This map is from December 2007. You can see in 2005/2006 they're close to Somali waters, then in 2006/2007 they go WELL outside the 200 mile limit, and expand over towards Yemen.

mappery.com...

This map shows pirate attack density in 2008. Look at some of the density near Yemen.

www.reliefweb.int...$File/unosat_SEC_som081126.pdf?OpenElement

unosat.web.cern.ch...

reply to post by johnsky


There is probably many things society can do, and all the power that america and russia have un there navies. Of course they could do something, but you have to wonder why it took so long to kill the pirates, it took a week or so.

Maybe it is just a slow week in the news.