What do you think of the french law banning religious symbols from school ?

Geez louise! This is France we are talking about! About as culturally tolerant as North Korea.

This is a very controversial topic but there are certain things that need to be said.

I believe that the "majority" race and religion rules in a country, any country. I believe someone traveling from some Arabic country who comes to France or another Western civilization country should not expect the people there to change for her. She must learn to adapt with the Western civilized rather than complain about it, it was her choice to come to a Western country.

Hey, in Saudi Arabia they can ban any religion except for Islam and they also do not allow jews entry into the country. I think of that as total religious intolerance as well, if Saudi Arabia don't let Jews and non islamic religions practice.. then why should France let these Arabs wear the headdresses? Fair right?

This is nothing more than a conflict of religion, I wish people in this world would conflict over topics of real importance than "my god is more real than your god" stuff. That's what it comes down to folks.

Originally posted by RedOctober90
This is a very controversial topic but there are certain things that need to be said.

I believe that the "majority" race and religion rules in a country, any country. I believe someone traveling from some Arabic country who comes to France or another Western civilization country should not expect the people there to change for her. She must learn to adapt with the Western civilized rather than complain about it, it was her choice to come to a Western country.

Hey, in Saudi Arabia they can ban any religion except for Islam and they also do not allow jews entry into the country. I think of that as total religious intolerance as well, if Saudi Arabia don't let Jews and non islamic religions practice.. then why should France let these Arabs wear the headdresses? Fair right?

This is nothing more than a conflict of religion, I wish people in this world would conflict over topics of real importance than "my god is more real than your god" stuff. That's what it comes down to folks.

This is very controversial, and certain things do need to be said. Saudia Arabia is a monarchy. France is a republic, modeled after the United States. I believe that the laws that govern a country, should be the rule of law. My point is, you cannot use Saudi Arabia, a monarchy, to compare civil rights to free nations, ruled by the people.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by curme]

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by RedOctober90
This is a very controversial topic but there are certain things that need to be said.

I believe that the "majority" race and religion rules in a country, any country. I believe someone traveling from some Arabic country who comes to France or another Western civilization country should not expect the people there to change for her. She must learn to adapt with the Western civilized rather than complain about it, it was her choice to come to a Western country.

Hey, in Saudi Arabia they can ban any religion except for Islam and they also do not allow jews entry into the country. I think of that as total religious intolerance as well, if Saudi Arabia don't let Jews and non islamic religions practice.. then why should France let these Arabs wear the headdresses? Fair right?

This is nothing more than a conflict of religion, I wish people in this world would conflict over topics of real importance than "my god is more real than your god" stuff. That's what it comes down to folks.

This is very controversial, and certain things do need to be said. Saudia Arabia is a monarchy. France is a republic, modeled after the United States. I believe that the laws that govern a country, should be the rule of law. My point is, you cannot use Saudi Arabia, a monarchy, to compare civil rights to free nations, ruled by the people.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by curme]

If I went to Saudi Arabia to become a citizen, I'd be expected to follow the law of Islam and pray 5 times a day. I shouldn't expect them to cater to my Caucasian cultures and neither should this Arabic woman expect the French to drop what they do and cater to her customs. If you are unable to adapt to a different country you have re-located too, you really shouldn't blame the citizens for it.

I am certainily would not drop what I am doing to ensure that someone who comes here from a different country and is of a different race is satisifed that we are catering to there religion/race. It was there own choice to come my nation, which is the USA.. a mostly caucasian race nation.

And with all this islamic fundementalism going on, racial profiling is going to occur. I hate when they say "oooh well the caucasian race profiles..." well we are not the only race who does the racial profiling! Let's stop blaming whitey for all the worlds problems, lets look deeper than just skin color and race.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by RedOctober90]

I think its great, more schools should ban religious b-#.

Is'nt school supposed to be about education. I mean if i wore a guillotine around my neck because i worship marie antoinette dont you think i should be criticized.

Originally posted by ashley
I think its great, more schools should ban religious b-#.

Is'nt school supposed to be about education. I mean if i wore a guillotine around my neck because i worship marie antoinette dont you think i should be criticized.

Well said,

But now we need to ask "what defines what religious things are ok"? What if I said my religion required me to carry around a loaded machine gun? What exactly defines what and what cannot be shown? Or maybe I need to bring a cow with me everywhere i go since i worship cows.. c'mon guys. And rememmber I'll scream racist if you don't let me

If one wants to do there religious stuff, there are plenty of religious type schools one can attend. But don't start shoving this "racial and religious intolerance" at me because I may not accept your views, I may not want your stinky cow in my department store or carrying around your machine gun in a public area because your religion says you require it.

Quote:

If I went to Saudi Arabia to become a citizen, I'd be expected to follow the law of Islam and prey 5 times a day.

End Quote

This has got to be the funniest Freudian slip I've seen here! You did mean pray, I'm sure, but it was definitely funny when I first read it!

_

Originally posted by jsobecky
Quote:

If I went to Saudi Arabia to become a citizen, I'd be expected to follow the law of Islam and prey 5 times a day.

End Quote

This has got to be the funniest Freudian slip I've seen here! You did mean pray, I'm sure, but it was definitely funny when I first read it!

_

'

Yes pray, slight mistake. Now could you add some commentary to this subject? I'd be interested in hearing what you think about all of this.

__
Sure. I've posted several replies in this thread; go back and read them. Just do yourself a favor and ignore the ones between KJ and myself; you'll get nothing from them, trust me.

I'd be interested in your comments on the town in Michigan that has voted to change it's noise ordinances to allow muslim mosques to broadcast a call to prayer five times a day, over loudspeakers.

I don't believe in religious intolerance. I do believe that public schools have a right and duty to regulate clothing or symbolism that incites violence, whether that clothing or symbolism is religious, political, or otherwise.

Off topic a bit, I believe that the Muslim woman who refused to reveal her face to get her picture taken for a drivers license was wrong, and should be denied the license until she co-operates. It is a matter of security.
_

i dont think your talking to me sean connery but.......im glad you agree with what i said.

this board is full of cowards and every time i say something to the point there is no acknowledgement.

at least someone is paying attention,maybe that is the reason for lack of acknowledgment.

Originally posted by jsobecky
__
Sure. I've posted several replies in this thread; go back and read them. Just do yourself a favor and ignore the ones between KJ and myself; you'll get nothing from them, trust me.

I'd be interested in your comments on the town in Michigan that has voted to change it's noise ordinances to allow muslim mosques to broadcast a call to prayer five times a day, over loudspeakers.

I don't believe in religious intolerance. I do believe that public schools have a right and duty to regulate clothing or symbolism that incites violence, whether that clothing or symbolism is religious, political, or otherwise.

Off topic a bit, I believe that the Muslim woman who refused to reveal her face to get her picture taken for a drivers license was wrong, and should be denied the license until she co-operates. It is a matter of security.
_

If they can rip off the 10 commandments off a court building then "no -go" with loudspeaker blasting prayer calls in public. According to a source, 80% of Mosques in the USA deal with islamic fundmentalism, something we do NOT need here. I am trying to fight for my race and culture here.

Originally posted by ashley
i dont think your talking to me sean connery but.......im glad you agree with what i said.

this board is full of cowards and every time i say something to the point there is no acknowledgement.

at least someone is paying attention,maybe that is the reason for lack of acknowledgment.

Well your comments I could easily agree with there, I can see you are fighting to preserve your race, culture, and country from foreign entities insisting on taking it over and calling you an intolerant racist bigot if you disagree.

I certainily don't need them building fundmentalist Mosques in my town and then blaring out "PRAYER TIME" early when i'm trying to get some sleep for my day. We would just rip it down like they did to our Ten Commandments... the USA was founded upon white christian ideals.. I may be atheist but if we can't display the country's religion, then why should we have to allow mosques to blare out "PRAYER TIME" in the middle of my town?

There are alot of smart and informed people on this fourm, I am sure they are reading your posts to get more perspectives on things as I try to do.

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by RedOctober90]

_
Agreed, on the call to prayer issue. Usually the ACLU is all over cases such as this, always, it seems, on the side of getting rid of religious symbols. I have not heard from them in this case.
_

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by jsobecky]

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
_
Agreed. Ususally the ACLU is all over cases such as this, always, it seems, on the side of getting rid of religious symbols. I have not heard from them in this case.
_

The ACLU probably wouldn't even get involved in such a case, they only get involved when it comes to tearing down Christian artifacts. I think they are too afraid of being called bigots and intolerants if they wanted to stop some guy from blaring out "PRAYER TIME" at 5 am in some town in the USA somewhere.

Anyway, good comments from all of you.

If I went to Saudi Arabia to become a citizen, I'd be expected to follow the law of Islam and pray 5 times a day. I shouldn't expect them to cater to my Caucasian cultures and neither should this Arabic woman expect the French to drop what they do and cater to her customs. If you are unable to adapt to a different country you have re-located too, you really shouldn't blame the citizens for it.

I am certainly would not drop what I am doing to ensure that someone who comes here from a different country and is of a different race is satisifed that we are catering to there religion/race. It was there own choice to come my nation, which is the USA.. a mostly caucasian race nation.

The point I was trying to make about Saudi Arabia and Western countries was this. Would Saudi Arabia allow you certain freedoms? Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? Etc.? No. It's not a democracy. You can't compare their intolerance, to Western countries that were founded on the ideals of democracy. That's like comparing the USSR with the US, they were two totally different systems.

I have a question. If America was mostly Hispanic, and the national language Spanish, would America be any less America? Or say Asian and everyone spoke Chinese? Let's say this happens through immigration. Does it matter who is in charge? America is an idea. A glorious concept, and the Constituion, the Bill of Rights wouldn't change if no whites lived in the U.S. It would still be the U.S., the flag would still be raised with honor and pride. I see some posters to this thread feel threatened of outsiders. They feel insecure of losing their power to 'minorities'. If minorities ruled this country, and there was a black person in the white house, the national anthem wouldn't change.
America doesn't have a white face, it has a free heart. Too many people forget what America is all about, or maybe never knew.

I most strongly concur curme .
saudi arabia is not even a benign democracy . whilst doing business with the saudi royal family and welcoming them as representatives when thay visit ,Britain also grants political asylum to it's disidents recognising that they are in fear of thier lives .
In the late 90's i remember reading an article on the death penalty in saudi arabia , which as we know is public beheading .
this gave some figures and the offences commited .
these included murder ,rape ,kidnapping [which you might expect ] the smuggling of drugs and alcohol and last but not least ,witchcraft .
the figure given was 9 .
basically ,Britain was that year selling military equipment and trading with a country where 9 people had been publically beheaded for witchcraft !!!!
go figure .
[please excuse my getting slightly off topic here ,i thought some of you might find the above interesting ]
most democratic societies make exception to law for religious belief .
the native american use of peyote in religious ceremony [crimanalised in the supreme court "smith " decision and excemted in the 1994 act ]
the amish education recquirement excemption being just 2 here in the U.S.
the french govt's decision is different however as dress recquirements are not integral to islam ,they are a cultural practise not a religious one .
If the govt also was to include sikh's in this law as i understand they intend to they are on dodgy ground as the wearing of the turban [as part of the 3 k's ] is an integral part of thier religious observance .

My main point is that if someone from Saudi Arabia decides to move to the USA or any Western civilization nation, they must respect the culture and customs that are already there.

If they want to wear the head vail or do whatever they do, let them do it in the privacy of there own homes.. and stop calling me a racist, bigot, or having religious intolerance because I support my race, culture, and the original foundations of this country which was based upon caucasian-christian people.

These people can easily go back to Saudi Arabia where they call for prayers 5 times a day in public, don't expect us to cater to that.

Any of us would have to accept another countries culture if we decided to move to it, say like someone from the USA wanted to move to India.. not complain that they have a culture different than yours... that is THEIR country and THEIR culture.
The real bigots and intolerants are those who come to a foreign country and expect them to change and drop there culture and ideals to suit there needs. Well it ain't happening folks!

I personally don't care what the French do. I live in the US and have no concern whatsoever with the frogs and what they do.

My main point is that if someone from Saudi Arabia decides to move to the USA or any Western civilization nation, they must respect the culture and customs that are already there.

My main point is that the culture and customs of the USA or any Western civilization nation is to allow others freedom. Freedom of speech, religion, etc. And to deny those freedoms is to deny what these countries stand for.

The real bigots and intolerants are those who come to a foreign country and expect them to change and drop there culture and ideals to suit there needs. Well it ain't happening folks!

Countries need to change. If we didn't change, women couldn't vote and blacks would never have gone to school in Little Rock. As silly as those notions seem now, nations need to grow. They can't stay stagnant and ignore the ideals they were founded on. The original foundations of this country was based on 'All men are created equal' , which meant all white men, but as we grew as a nation, we understood that was wrong and now interpretate it to
mean what we would like the US to represent. Just my 2 cents.

I can live in Syria and denounce the US

I can live in the US and denounce Syria

I can live in the US and denounce the US

I cannot live in Syria and denounce Syria

Which statement is incongruous?

Which country has the greatest need to change?

Yet the US is always blamed when it comes to a conflict about assimilating another's culture into our own.

I too am getting tired of the whining of apologists who conveniently ignore the facts as presented above.

__