New to survival

I'm gonna tell you a bit about myself before I start asking questions. I feel it helps to know who you are talking to, when talking to people online.
I'm nearly 19, British, and live in the middle of nowhere. In fact, I am fairly sure I am in the best possible place to survive. Close enough to a medium sized town to be able to rely on it for supplies, yet far enough away to simply be able to disappear into the Scottish mountains should the need arise.
Anyway, I will admit, I have laughed at conspiracies, and the idea that I should ever need to 'Bug Out'. I live in a stable area, have a stable job and am pretty isolated from the rest of the world.
However, over the past few months, various events have convinced me that I am not safe, and that preparing for the worst is maybe a good idea.

As for surviving, while I am sure of my skills, I literally have no idea what I need to carry in a BOB, should I need to survive alone for months at a time.

So here are my questions:
What type of vest should I get? A normal 'multi purpose' cotton vest, or a military style vest that can carry [home-made] armor plates?

What type of bag? Assuming I am only carrying supplies for myself. Reading a book on how to survive as a Guerrilla fighter (seemed like a good place to start on surviving in the mountains) I could carry everything the book suggests in a 45ltr 'Day sack'. But that assumes a constant supply of food.
What do you use? Is Molle webbing needed, or will a civillian pack to the trick?
What would you suggest I carry?

Okay, now for my plan. My plan would really to be set up camp in the forested mountains. There is food, both meat and plant. There is plenty of ways to make a shelter, both temporary and permanent, and it is easy to defend/hide in. It is also quite sheltered, despite what you may think. Unless anyone could suggest a better plan, then I am happy with my own.
(Also, I have thought it out more throughly than 'i am going to do this'. In fact, come this summer, I intend to use 1 week of my holidays to go for a little trip into the mountains with minimum kit and see what happens.)


So basically, I wish to call upon your experience to help me choose my kit, and what I need to carry in it.
I really need something that can help me escape not only from disasters or civil unrest, but also let me escape should anarchy or something akin to US 'martial law' come into effect. Personally, I am more afraid of the latter happening anytime soon, so my plans are of a more defensive than escapist nature.

But please, I am new and young and inexperienced. I really need your advice and wisdom.
Thanks,
Titan.

[edit on 11-4-2009 by TitanHQ]

reply to post by TitanHQ


First concern, I think, would be Water. Do you have access to water that is NOT attached to the city? Perhaps a Well? Something that would make you self sufficient in that regard?

If not, look into ways that you can treat any water source you have around you. It would be wise to have any water source tested.. to be on the safe side.

Food. You could look into storing food staples: Rice, Oats, Flour, etc...

Do you have room for a garden? A protected garden, that could be a good enough size to provide for you and your family, but not in such a location that it could be easily accessible to others? It might be worth it for you to learn how to garden so that you aren't relying on any towns, or communities for food.

Protection - I realize you said you are over in Britain, I'm not sure about their firearm laws.... but it might be a good idea to look into the laws and what you are permitted to purchase.

Are you planning on bugging out? Or being on the Move....


- Carrot

reply to post by CA_Orot


Water, Damn! I completely forgot about that.
Well, we are on the edge of a saltwater loch, which in desperate circumstances could be purified enough to drink I guess. But we also have freshwater rivers flowing all year round. My place I have chosen as a good hiding place is pretty close to the source of one of these.
There is also plenty of rainfall all year round. It is almost *guaranteed* from the beginning of Autumn to the end of March.

Growing stuff in a garden is a lost cause IMO. The entire area is located on granite and slate. Solid stuff for making a shelter on, useless for trying to grow stuff in.
I'll be sure to look into it though.

Protection, well both me and another member in my house own Air rifles. Which is about the best you can do round here. Add a bow, couple of crappy swords, knives and a pair of nunchaku and that is about what we have.
I am a decent shot with a single shot .22 rifle. These *could* be acquired IF the nature of the emergency made the need to defend greater than the need to stay within the law.

I'm not planning on going anywhere. I just want to make sure that I can bug out and stay out indefinitely if the need arises AND make sure those I care about can be kept safe.

get yourself a water gravity filter and a few filter candels to last, the sticks cost about £12 and last 6 months so buy a few and store them, a stainless steel purifier is about £50, for a non end of the world situation you can also get a fluoride filter for extra to filter standard tap water. Anywho, this will kill most bacteria, virii, gets rid of noxious chemicals and will allow you to drink from almost any source (steams, lakes, rain water, stagnant pools, etc)

Food, get growing all your vegetables, get used to the cycles but if this is Sit-X go for solar panels and red/blue grow leds this will allow you to grow veg 24/7 all year round although this is only really an option if you're staying put. also get some chickens and a store of vitamin tablets and a 6 month cycle of canned good, (if you need emergency food for more than 6 month then you need to move into sustainable growing). You can eat meat with what you can find but don't count on it, hence the vits, Vit C, B(as many as possible), iron and the veg should do the rest.

reply to post by TitanHQ


Hi, there is much experience on these forums, you may also care to have a look here: prepared2survive.phpbbhosts.co.uk...

Rgds

Welcome to ATS!

Okay, I hope what I say doesn't seem insulting or condescending. I don't mean it so. I see my own bright-eyed views of 30+ years ago in your statements. Clearly you are intelligent, and you ask smart questions, so I think you're well on your way to adapting to whatever is thrown your way.

I've come to the understanding -- at least for my age group (50+) that people with like views working together accomplish far more that the sum of their parts working alone. I think it has always been so. I think to some degree, that's why humans have always drifted toward each other. It's more than the herding instinct, but in some ways the same.

Wow. You are young, and yet this whole changing, crazy world is thrust upon you and you're rising to the occasion, looking to survive, to adapt, to LIVE and carve out the runes of the new world. Good onya.

I believe that those that survive whatever befalls us all will be folks that can work in [dare I call it] grassroots kinda groups. You WILL need to protect yourselves, you will need to work hard, and a division of labor will likely be useful. Learn all you can. There are excellent series on suturing, for example on youtube...... just one of thousands of specializations that have always made a difference.

Myself..... I feel calm. I have my Bride with me and whatever comes, we'll step up. We live on a remote island, and there is nothing to export, nothing to steal, nothing to liberate. There IS fresh water, and as SpitefulGod and Carrot indicated, it's one of your primary needs. I don't think a person goes wrong investing in a quality, long-term water filtration system. One can develop skills that allow them to find and/or make water (solar still, etc.) You will find a wealth of resources here, as well as a myriad of mental stimulation. I am a survival expert, but never THE survival expert, if you know what I mean. There are herds of knowledgeable and insightful folk here that I would consider to be experts. Your task -- just like mine -- is to learn, to study, to live, to grow.

eek. That was somewhat deep -- at least for me. Did that sound preachy? I surely hope not. Good thread. Now, I get to learn from YOU.

p.s. I am completely impressed with the Big Berkey water filtration system. It can go anywhere I can, and it WORKS, it's tough, and ...... kindy spiffy in an neuvo sparkly way. ha!

Thanks Dark Vengeance, I will go and check it out ASAP.


spitefulgod, I think the plan to begin with would be keep put in a safe place. But if it is Sit-X, then keep moving until we reach an isolated community offshore. They survive without mainland interference, so can we.

Anyway, I would like to move the thread onto a more practical point of 'how' am I/we going to carry this stuff?
I would like to know what kit you have, so I can start planning my own kit.

Hey there Titan, good to see a new face joining the ranks of us Survivalist.

Here's a basic rule for you to go on. Always remember it.

Water
Food
Shelter
Warmth!

That is all you need to survive, basic is as basic gets.

Now if you want to get more into it, it is always good to have a friend with you. Be it animal or human. Do remember though they need all the things you need.

I read that you have a Bug Out Location selected, have you been to the area before and if so have you searched for any caves? Caves are natural and an easy place to begin your bugging out at. Do remember to vacate the area of any other occupants first though. Waking up in the middle of the night to an angry she wolf is not fun!
Also have you tried to grow anything in your BOL? I like to visit mine every six months and throw some seeds on the ground. Not only will this start edible food, but also attract animals that will want to eat the food. Mmmm MEAT.
Never be afraid to abandon a BOL, if you find a more suitable one. You can always use the previous BOL as storage or an outpost if your new BOL is attacked for whatever reason. I once had an incident with a hive of bees!

As for your weapons, the bow is a plus. I am good with a bow. Not best, but good enough to hunt with. Guns require ammo and ammo runs out. Arrows are natural and can be made with practice.
Practice with that bow in your free time!

Practice how to make a fire!!!! Survival Topics This site has some awesome information, I am sure you will love!

reply to post by argentus


It wasn't preachy at all. In fact, it was very helpful. I'm a bit worried that I may have interpreted it wrong though.

I'm not sure what 'Grassroot groups' are, but I can guess that they are small-ish local groups which are self sufficient? (In the context of the thread of course).
This, and the idea of a remote community are both where I have grown up, and the type of place I would like to survive in. To me it adds a sense of security, whether it be real or perceived, and that is always a good thing.

Well, I like to think I am no stranger to working hard. And I have various skills that would hopefully become of use in SitX or any long term survival situation.

Fresh water, I can see that this is my main concern. Although, it is the one I have been most complacent about due to my location. I absolutely must make sure my source is constant all year round. Which, isn't a problem. I can go up at any time, and take notes and place markers. Primitive but effective way of noting how well the river is flowing at any point.


Well, this has proved to show more weaknesses in my plans than I expected. But that is good, I can only make them stronger.
Thanks for the feedback, I just hope I DO rise to the occasion.

Lots of good info already.

Water water water.

I would have a supply on hand and the means to purify it as well plus extra filters.

Unless you have an unlimited budget I would first map out exactly what you need and for how many people. Then priortize it and build your kit as you are able. When istarted I assigned items a priority and secured those first.

For you case as mentined its water. You can go a long time without food, but no water or contaminated water will kill you pretty quick.

I would dig thought the forum as we have alot of pretty good posters here and many from the UK. I recently purchased the SAS survival manual through amazon and its a pretty good read.

Cheers

reply to post by Tentickles


Nope, as I said, growing stuff locally is useless. The only farm land is dedicated to livestock.
Naturally occurring fungi and fruit are about as good as it gets.

Caves, well... there is one small one. But, the location itself is high up in a mid-mountain valley, if that makes sense. Geography was never my strong point. In a clearing surrounded by trees and cliffs.
I may have to go searching for a new BOL though. As the more I learn, the more I fear that it may not be suitable for long term settlements.

I'm not bad with a bow, I haven't tried hunting with it, and I am better with a rifle. But, I will practice more, and maybe invest in a better bow when I have the funds. At the moment, it is not at the top of my list.

Shelter is easy enough, a hammock with a tent like cover provides adequate protection from the elements. And a natural wind-break can be made to stop the most of the wind from getting to the shelters.
More permanent structures can be erected if the situation requires.

Warmth, conserve body heat, light fires and use it to boil water for hot water bottles. They are the best ways to stay warm IMO.

Food, meat is not a problem, veg are. Working on it still.

Water, again, not too much of a problem thanks to the location. But more work needs to be done to guarantee a supply.

reply to post by FredT


I am only going to assume there would be 4-6 of us. Anyone else wishes to join the group, then they can bring their own stuff. My family comes first.

Yeah, my budget isn't too bad, could get 1 big item or a few smaller ones per month. (As I'm now studying again, I have little outgoing cash, but still have a decent income, so I can get more things as time goes on).

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Work in just under 6 hours. I will reply to new posts tomorrow.

Fish, lots of fish, shellfish and edible seaweed is available locally. It can all be dried or smoked and then should last for ages. Which I have experience in and is a good way to acquire food after SitX.
Sorry, just thinking out loud, so you can all see whats going on in my head and correct me where necessary.

I have a question about Fluoride.

you can also get a fluoride filter for extra to filter standard tap water.

What are the dangers of fluoride in the tap water? I have heard a few conspiracy theories about it, but don't buy into it really. From a survivalists' point of view, what are the dangers?

I have also just read a thread on another forum about having a 'light' BOV or BOB that you carry at all times to let you escape while you are away from home or whenever your main BOB/BOV is.
Do you think this is a good idea? I have a bag I carry at all times, so I could add a few hidden internal pockets and convert it to a light BOB if you think it is a good idea.
Personally, I don't think it is a bad idea, but maybe a bit redundant?

Originally posted by TitanHQ
What are the dangers of fluoride in the tap water? I have heard a few conspiracy theories about it, but don't buy into it really. From a survivalists' point of view, what are the dangers?

Well its up to you if you don't want to buy into it - but you should at least consider some of the dangers of fluoride even if you don't necessarily believe them. Check out some of the other threads dedicated to talk to fluoride as I don't want to derail this topic any further. But to answer your question:

From a conspiracy theorists point of view - Fluoride in anything isn't good for you. Toothpaste? Tap Water? Gah. No thank you. I myself have been fluoride free for almost a year. My water is fluoride free (as I am on well water - that is NOT treated by any town system) and my toothpaste is fluoride free: Tom's of Maine. Great Brand.

From a survivalists point of view coupled with my conspiracy theroist mind - STAY AWAY from tap water. Stay away from ANY water that is treated by a city or a town in the event of SitX. Do not fall to the mercy of someone providing your water for you.

Consider this: How easy would it be for someone with a hidden agenda to contaminate the water supply? A Towns reservoir? Etc....

As a conspiracy theorist, and a survivalist in the event of SitX - I see the water supply having the potential to be used as a form of population control...

But hey... I'm paranoid about most things involving food and/or water.

In a survival situation - be responsible for your own water.


- Carrot

reply to post by CA_Orot


Well, I have just been doing a bit of research, and straight away I can dismiss the 'pros' of fluoride.
Having been living off of a private water supply for the past 8 years (until recently), it was all fresh off the mountains and fresh as can be. Now, my dental hygiene has never been great, it's not off-putting, as I am a bit of a clean freak at times, but yeah, not perfect either, and I have never had any dental problems, in fact I've never had more than a 5 min check-up every 12 months for the past 8 years.

So yeah, that was unnecessary, but I think I can live without it, regardless of any dangers the may or may not be surrounding it.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit off track here.

Good to hear from a survivalist so young, I figured I was one of the youngest on here at 30 years old.

Get yourself a compound crossbow. Cheap and you can reuse the ammo.
50 bolts will be enough for a very long time.
don't get a pulley-driven one as they are useless for self-repairing work.

The Highlands in Scotland is pretty much one of the best places in the UK to be for almost any SITX.
Where I am the closest bug-out place is the Cheviots.
Aim to get at least 6 months supplies. This will take up about 10-20 feet or so of space but you'll have options and choices then if TSHTF. With the water being nearby you can increase your food loadings without stocking up on too much potted water.
Having a small group of you around will be key if there is a great collapse.
I'd hang with you but I'm way to far to reach you should there be a SITX.

Originally posted by WatchRider
Get yourself a compound crossbow. Cheap and you can reuse the ammo.
50 bolts will be enough for a very long time.
don't get a pulley-driven one as they are useless for self-repairing work.

Get a recurve crosbow, not a compound. Compounds have too many parts that can break.

Originally posted by Anuubis

Originally posted by WatchRider
Get yourself a compound crossbow. Cheap and you can reuse the ammo.
50 bolts will be enough for a very long time.
don't get a pulley-driven one as they are useless for self-repairing work.

Get a recurve crosbow, not a compound. Compounds have too many parts that can break.

Sorry, I get confused between the two, yes a recurve and NOT a compound one:

www.crossbows-bolts.com...

www.crossbows-bolts.com...

TitanHQ, you don't say much about your current situation or your expectations, but you appear to be preparing for the total collapse of civilisation by bugging out to the Scottish Highlands. I'm not saying that you're wrong to do that, but I've always advocated planning for the most REALISTIC worst-case scenario in terms of survival preparation. In the 1970's people were moving to remote areas and building fallout shelters in preparation for a nuclear holocaust that never happened. Just keep that in mind and at the same time remember that the Doomsayers are usually (but not always) wrong.

In terms of self defense, I recommend a 12 gauge repeating shotgun, along with a high-velocity airgun for bagging small game. Your fellow countrymen are better qualified than I to make recommendations based upon whatever the UK's current gun laws are. I personally would avoid any archery, unless that's the only thing left available to you.

Beyond that, I will just reiterate what I have said on other threads on this forum relating to BOB's. Pre-stock the location you are going to. Make sure your BOB contains sufficient clothing, food, and equipment to get you to your destination at that time of year (a Summer BOB is very different from a Winter one, especially if you're headed for the Highlands). A Leatherman multi-tool and a Victorinox Adventurer model pocketknife, firestarting gear, along with water purification devices are must-haves. Beyond that, it all depends uopn your specific situation.

Best of Luck.