Why do Atheists care about religion?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by spy66

 

Then keep your religion out of the classroom. It has no reason to be there.

ID is a conspiracy to sneak religion into science classes. And that's not right.

Religious teaching should be optional. That way the sane people could avoid it.

Well there is more to human life then just evolution and science.

You also have human behaviour based on the knowledge it posses.

And some behaviour is based on faith and religion.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


Sorry, have to jump in here.....

Salt, you're not imagining the immensity of time, as your 'god' has....remember? 'he' is beyond time....

So, the 'god' in the equation could really by the one who started the 'Big Bang'...over 13 Biillion years ago, based on our little planet's version of noting time.....

Here's why there is a solid misunderstanding of the very concept of 'god'...

'god', or 'gods', are creations of the Human Mind....

When a certain 'imaginary' being is sufficiently accepted by a significant number of people, then it becomes a 'religion'.....it may start as a 'cult'....and evolve into a 'religion'....then shard off to the various 'cults'....this is demonstrable.

The very 'believing' system that makes up religions is the problem....because in most cases, 'they' rebel against rational thinking.

reply to post by spy66


"Well there is more to human life then just evolution and science.

You also have human behaviour based on the knowledge it posses.

And some behaviour is based on faith and religion."

So teach that in Sunday School. It's not science. Is this concept so difficult to grasp? I don't care if you scream "Jesus, I'm coming". Just don't scream it in front of a bunch of kids who are supposed to be learning a different subject. And don't try to shove it down people's throats.

Well, this is a good question.
I'm an atheist. I care about religion because, in my opinion, religion does a number of things for society that I don't care for. In my opinion, religion...
-Distracts people from more important issues
-Provides laws in an unnecessary context (aka if you steal, this will happen to you) rather than teaching that certain things are wrong as an all-societal rule.
-Gives easy answers to hard questions like why are we here, what happens to us when we die, where did we come from.
-Religion, in many cases, can keep us a few steps back in science and technology. I think that evidence that would otherwise be sufficient is often shot down because it contradicts religious ideals.
-Religion sometimes can infringe on the rights of some people, like women in terms in abortion discussions, or patients suffering from chronic conditions in terms of stem cell research.
-Religion makes people less unique, it gives people a common relationship to one another in individual religions and can make people stop thinking for themselves about some things.
-Religion is often based on very old texts with very controversial origins.
-Religion is one of the main causes for some wars and discrimination.
-Religion is not clear-cut, there is no one answer, and the right path is not obvious.
-Some major religions are tied to what I believe are unsavory practices, such as discrimination against women, controversy with pedophilia (in the Catholic Church), the destruction of other religions, looking down upon other religions, threatening members of other religions, etc.
-Religion is a huge business industry, and I think that the money involved should go towards better things, like funding for research on cures for diseases or better forms of energy. I think if people choose to do any work at all relating to the Church or any religion, they should be doing it out of faith and work for free or a very minimal salary. I think that people who sell religious bumper stickers are probably rolling in dough and I don't think that's right.
-Many people who follow a religion follow the same religion of their parents. I don't think this is the best thing for everyone, and the common practice seems wrong to me.
-I do not think any religion should be taught or exposed to people who do not want to learn about it, which is why I don't support religion in school or government at all. I think that here in America there -is- religion in the government and I think it is wrong, because it should not be there, and as an American citizen I want it not to be considered when important decisions are being made.

So this is why I care about it aka dislike religion, as an atheist.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by spy66

 

"Well there is more to human life then just evolution and science.

You also have human behaviour based on the knowledge it posses.

And some behaviour is based on faith and religion."

So teach that in Sunday School. It's not science. Is this concept so difficult to grasp? I don't care if you scream "Jesus, I'm coming". Just don't scream it in front of a bunch of kids who are supposed to be learning a different subject. And don't try to shove it down people's throats.

LoL you dont even see that i support facts.

I can agree that we dont need to teach religion and science in the same class.

But religion must be thought if we are to be able to understand one another.

Again learning and believing are two different things.

reply to post by spy66


"But religion must be thought if we are to be able to understand one another. "

Utter tripe. Your addiction to the Great Sky Fairy should not be spread to children.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by spy66

 

Utter tripe. Your addiction to the Great Sky Fairy should not be spread to children.

Well there is no way around it is there. As soon as a Kid meats society it is bombarded with everything from facts to fiction.

Why would you keep your kid from knowing the difference between facts and fiction?

When he is bombarded with it within society it self.


Its not easy to keep your kid from having thoughts.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by spy66


I can give him/her/it the tools to make intelligent choices. OR I can give them an indoctrination in non-thinking, aka "religion".

I am a strong atheist. To suggest that an atheist would have no view/interaction with religion is really quite false. It's like suggesting that if I have no children, I cannot have a view on education. Or if I am male I cannot have a view of the new Afghanistan religious marital rape law.

So much of what is happening in the world is due to religion. So much pain caused, simply because of a difference in supernatural belief, indoctrinated from an early age.

What a waste.

Originally posted by spy66

But religion must be thought if we are to be able to understand one another.

(Assuming you meant "taught" and not "thought")

I'd support that - IF - you gave equal time and billing to EVERY religion.

A few hours of introduction to Islam, a few hours of South American shamanic religions, a quick runthrough of Santeria For Dummies, the whole works. From Abrahamic to Zurvanism. Hey, do it alphabetically. Just give equal class and reading time to each one.

Of course, if you did that, you'd probably wind up with a lot more atheists than you intended to. It's easy to not believe in god, when you realize there's a whole bunch of gods out there that you don't believe in already.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by spy66

But religion must be thought if we are to be able to understand one another.

(Assuming you meant "taught" and not "thought")

I'd support that - IF - you gave equal time and billing to EVERY religion.

A few hours of introduction to Islam, a few hours of South American shamanic religions, a quick runthrough of Santeria For Dummies, the whole works. From Abrahamic to Zurvanism. Hey, do it alphabetically. Just give equal class and reading time to each one.

Of course, if you did that, you'd probably wind up with a lot more atheists than you intended to. It's easy to not believe in god, when you realize there's a whole bunch of gods out there that you don't believe in already.

Yes i mean to learn. Not to be thought to believe in.

To believe is a personal choice based on how you understand what you learn.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by spy66


Bravo. Now go tell the people that are yapping at us that we HAVE TO BELIEVE, that we HAVE TO HAVE FAITH, that it's a personal choice.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by spy66

 

I can give him/her/it the tools to make intelligent choices. OR I can give them an indoctrination in non-thinking, aka "religion".

Yes just like i said before. Give the right tools to understand and you can see the difference from fact and fiction.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by spy66

 

Bravo. Now go tell the people that are yapping at us that we HAVE TO BELIEVE, that we HAVE TO HAVE FAITH, that it's a personal choice.

I am.

And have been doing it all the time.

I challenge both sides. Not just religion. That's why you might believe that i am a believer of a personified God.

I do that because i want to learn. I also have doubts and thoughts about things. Because i dont know everything.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Here's the problem I have with any Religion.

Politicians like George H Bush us it because it appeals to the majority of their voters. (Self Serving)

It was good for business for the church and still is a money maker. Just turn on the TV and watch the con men ask you to donate to Jesus, and they pay 0 taxes. (Self Serving)

It's easy to make people believe there's an invisible guy in the sky watching every thing you do. This is a form of control. (Self Serving)

People go to church because they like to think they'll be rewarded after death. (Self Serving)

People go to church due to fear of punishment after death. (Self Serving)

People who go to church like to believe Religion is better than everyone Else's. (Self Serving)

People go to church because it give them this false belief that GOD is on their side no matter what they do and they are in the right. (Self Serving)

People will use Religion when they have done something bad and say "I found Jesus" before they are persecuted in court. E.G. Micheal Vick, Paris Hilton etc. (Self Serving)

Religion causes Wars that are profitable to weapon makers, oil companies. (Self Serving)

Religion makes people blindly submit to an idea without question of the idea.

More people died fighting each other in the name of God than any other disease, accidents or catastrophes in the world. This is mainly done by politicians and war racketeers. (Self Serving)

Religion is a divider.

Please note, I did not put the word "GOD" or "Religion" together. It's Religion that leads us away from the true Principal of consciousness in the living creation we are all inside of.


When you think you find Truth in Religion is the moment you stop seeking the truth. Therefore, it makes you stupid.

Think of it as telling your kid to believe in Santa, and Santa will not bring you any gifts if you are bad. So the kid goes on believing in Santa until he investigates and finds out Santa does not exist.

reply to post by TheInfamousOne



You sum up a lot of good things here.

But religion is not the only reason we go to war. Or do harm to others.

We also fight over resources, borders, race or pride/opinions. And some just fight for fun.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth

No, it's the atheists and evolutionist ramming their religion down everybody else's throats.

Ok let me explain something.

Science class. Class of Science.

What ought one find in a class of Science? My money would be on sciencey things like physics, chemistry and biology etc. Certainly not religion as religion isn't supported by evidence - otherwise it wouldn't be religion.

Evolution = Part of science.

In fact it's so much a part of Science it's considered to be the backbone of modern Biology. Everything in biology makes sense because of and is supported by evolution.

It's not something that came out a drug induced hallucination or dream, it was born of the Scientific Method, the best method for learning about anything (except juggling chainsaws [/houseism]). After all, science gave rise to all the technology you take for granted in your daily life. If science were religion, then none of this stuff would have been conceived of, much less actually work.

It is your sad fault if it is incompatible with your beliefs, it belongs in science class as a science, devoid of religion interference. So tough ****.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by ravenshadow13

I'm an atheist. I care about religion because, in my opinion, religion does a number of things for society that I don't care for. In my opinion, religion... -Distracts people from more important issues

Well, if things like life, human interaction, code of morality and ethics, laws such as not killing are not considered important issues, then you have a big problem.
What do you consider more important- like who will win American Idol?

-Religion, in many cases, can keep us a few steps back in science and technology.

That opinion is not supported by facts. Most people in the US affiliate themselves with a religion. Yet, the US is the most advanced country in science and technology. There are countries where most people are atheists that are backwards.

-Religion sometimes can infringe on the rights of some people, like women in terms in abortion discussions, or patients suffering from chronic conditions in terms of stem cell research.

Is anyone that wants an abortion denied that right in the US now?
Politicians decided what stem cell research is ok, and what is not. No religious leader has the right to make laws in this country. If a politician chooses to use religion as a reason for a law, that is the politician's decision, not the religions'. They could just as well used a Ouija board to make their decision.

-Religion makes people less unique, it gives people a common relationship to one another in individual religions and can make people stop thinking for themselves about some things.

Take the word religion in the above quote of yours, and replace it with the words US citizen, and nothing changes.

-Religion is often based on very old texts with very controversial origins.

Wow, so now old is bad. How scientific of you.

-Religion is one of the main causes for some wars and discrimination.

Wars and discrimination have been fought over just about any reason you can think of, race, land, resources, politics, even royal marriages. Stop using religion as a whipping boy.

-Religion is not clear-cut, there is no one answer, and the right path is not obvious.

-Provides laws in an unnecessary context (aka if you steal, this will happen to you) rather than teaching that certain things are wrong as an all-societal rule. -Gives easy answers to hard questions like why are we here, what happens to us when we die, where did we come from.

Look at your two quotes above. You contradict yourself.
On one hand, you say religion is not clear-cut, there is no one answer, etc, and then you say religion gives easy answers to hard questions.

-Some major religions are tied to what I believe are unsavory practices, such as discrimination against women, controversy with pedophilia (in the Catholic Church), the destruction of other religions, looking down upon other religions, threatening members of other religions, etc. -Religion is a huge business industry, and I think that the money involved should go towards better things, like funding for research on cures for diseases or better forms of energy. I think if people choose to do any work at all relating to the Church or any religion, they should be doing it out of faith and work for free or a very minimal salary.

Religions cannot be blamed for individuals who belong to that religion that commit heinous acts. It has been proven that a much smaller percentage of priests committed pedophilia than the general population. In addition, rabbis and ministers also committed those acts.

As for working for free, people need to live also, feed their families, etc. Are you willing to work for free?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


"Well, if things like life, human interaction, code of morality and ethics, laws such as not killing are not considered important issues, then you have a big problem."

This is a crutch for the God-botherers. "No religion, no morality." Again, the tired old circular logic, "We have religion. We have morals. We have morals because we have religion." Religion isn't necessary for a moral life. People who don't commit crimes because they might get punished after they die are refraining for the wrong reasons.

(I eagerly await someone producing the 10 Commandments as proof that religion creates morality. I loooove that one.)

reply to post by Gawdzilla

This is a crutch for the God-botherers. "No religion, no morality.

You must have a serious problem with logic. I said no such thing. What I said what that those issues are issues that religion deal with. It was not an exclusive claim of the religious domain. Your attempt to set up a strawman has failed miserably. I would suggest you take your blinders off, and also take a course in Logic101.