Show Me A Sceptic That Does Not Believe In Aliens

reply to post by Gawdzilla


You're right, the universe is testable, otherwise I wouldn't be typing.

You act as though you're not understanding what I'm saying, which is why I had to repeat myself numerous times to get a question to a question from you, and yet your answer is incomplete, scientific method does not explain how anything was ever possible, it does not explain why we are not in a infinite negative, zero, paradox of zero, instead, we have the universe. So therefore you have faith that everything is has and always will be, yet, you cannot test that.

Damn, I too slow this early in the morning. Maybe its the sepsis...or scepsis...LOL

reply to post by Revolution-2012


You keep claiming I have "faith" because that's the only system you can conceive. That's not my problem, it's yours.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Ugh, you're arrogant.

I've repeatedly admitted to my faiths.

You are acting as though you are able to understand everything and you have the answer to why does anything exist, and you don't, yet you believe that the big bang is the explanation for why we are here, but if you look beyond the sugar coated story, you'll see that there is more unanswered by science, that you cannot answer, therefore you retaliate by pointing out I have faith more than darkness after death.

I never said we we're intelligently designed, I just don't believe we become exactly what you can't explain, why is in anything here, and how did it become.

Originally posted by Lost_Mind


Sorry Mr. Uber Speller, its "septic". And "sceptic" is the Euro way of spelling the word skeptic. Be more tolerant of how those of other cultures spell...

Off topic I know, I'll have my lashings now...

You mean the correct way of spelling and not some bastardised, ugly offspring of the English language... commonly known as Amerikan.

*Gets out cat o nine tails*

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I try to be sceptical of many things, however I am of the opinion that there is something other than intelligent man made craft flying around in our skies (no, I'm not talking birds). As another posted earlier said earlier, it can be frustrating when hardcore sceptics aren't as open-minded as they like to think and refuse to entertain any possibility that doesn't fall into natural phenomena or hoax (which you can't deny happens), and then in turn seek to discredit/disprove a person's findings instead of looking for answers honestly.

There are extremists at either end of the spectrum, yet I often find sceptics refuse to acknowledge this and only see their polar opposite.

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Not playing your game doesn't make me arrogant. I've never claimed to know everything, I've been challenging you to show how you know anything.

reply to post by Goathief


"There are extremists at either end of the spectrum, yet I often find sceptics refuse to acknowledge this and only see their polar opposite."

And the obverse, of course, those who see space aliens in EVERYTHING. Polar opposites they're not, just two versions of the same thing.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Have I not repeatedly told you that big bang is true, that evolution is true to what we know if it?

Yes, I believe all of that.

I'm not playing a damn game I'm proposing a question you're unable to answer, like I've said before, you have faith in the existence of everything always being, and you can prove that, as much as I can't prove there is another dimension.

Bottom line, I don't have a portal to go to another dimension.

Bottom line, you don't and will not any time soon, have proof that atheism is anything but a logical and rational explanation with scientific fundamentals that are flawed in the understanding of how why when where what made the universe.

Am I communicating enough for you, or should I make a podcast and relay myself to you on multiple levels of how I perceive the scientific method, would that help? Would that be an affirmation of what I have been trying to tell you?

Saying horse crap like what landed in my signature proves you don't have an answer, and it will remain that way, and you will get used to it.

Me, I'm a hippie for all you care, I believe in afterlife, do I defend it and try and scrape it into everyone's skull, no. You have no right to sit on here and preach atheism, which you will do when people present their beliefs in a serious thread, I can read you like a book and I would give it a high probability you will continue with your arrogance, and doing so will earn you many enemies.

reply to post by Revolution-2012


You keep hoping I'll buy into the game you're playing. It's called stair-stepping and I don't play it.

And thanks for putting me in your sig. The statement is coherent and concise. That you can't understand is proof of your comprehension.

To stay on topic, skeptics want to know, and ask questions about assumptions made by other people to see if they've thought them through. The best skeptics become teachers.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

And the obverse, of course, those who see space aliens in EVERYTHING. Polar opposites they're not, just two versions of the same thing.

Yes, you are quite correct - I should have worded it differently but you understand the point I was trying to make.

Thanks.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Stair-stepping?

As though I'm prepping you to say something?

I wouldn't need to stair step if you had a coherent and concise rebuttal, which you do not.

I'll be talking with a few ATS members, and you'll be earning yourself a debate thread, me and you, one on one.

So, I'll get to reading, if you want to debate, I recommend you do the same

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Enjoy yourself in the debate thread. Do tell me how it turns out, please.

I'm a skeptic that applies reason to all possibilities. My mind is open and my imagination runs wild. Science is the only thing we have at this time to test hypotheses and theories and when something is tested and inconclusive it stays that way with me. I can imagine all I want but the fact remains that proof is missing. I want to understand the universe and will not deny people their right to discuss what they believe. I won't call them names or ridicule their passion of such beliefs. But I am what I am and to see a UFO in the sky doesn't mean it's alien to me. I want all the data and all the theories of what the object might be. I want every last bit of information I could possibly get and if there's no proof then there's no proof just speculation. I'm a critical thinker not a believer. To believe in something is throwing away all the other possibilities about that certain belief. I'm not a debunker I just want undeniable proof. People can say they saw this and they saw that and it won't matter who that person is unless it's me. I'm open to all new ideas and debates and encourage everyone to use their minds and think, think, think. That's why I come here because ATS makes this possible.

The problem believers have with skeptics is that they don't automatically agree with the believers.

"Man, I saw a UFO last night."
"Wow, that's cool!"

So far so good. But . . .

"Man, I saw a UFO last night."
"Wow, what do you think it was?"
"Man, it was a UFO!"
"Oh, you mean alien spaceship?"
"Well, yeah."
"Why?"

At that point the skeptic becomes "the enemy".

IT is not that I don't believe that life is out there.

What I think is that they may have developed technology or as a lifeform that we could recongize or even see.

If a species is advanced enough to travel light years here, they would in all likliehood have technology we can't even see.

And we assume that becasue we need to use ships, that they would use ships. They may dream up something totally different, Or even use transporters..


We assume we could interact with them, that they would have eyes, ears, nose, mouth.
While it is said that silicone can't be a basis of life, nature has a way of figuring out things.

If it can take some carbon atoms and make life on a this marble, silicone may figure it out on another.

But they may be different enough to watch but can't intereact with us.
How do you communicate with a being that has no eyes, ears, mouth, or nose? Maybe not even touch?


If indeed we are being visited in ships, I think it is more likely someone figured out time travel and folks from the future, way future, are coming back to see events.



[edit on 10-4-2009 by nixie_nox]

I gave a star and flag

For me its about trust.. we get alot of banter on ats about people so say I WANT PROOF or OMGGG thats sooooo not real "more so coz it makes not sens".. but in essance its about trust.

we lack it as a race.. look at our world? look at our world really no wonder people are skeptical of each other we dont even "trust" our goverments!!

Why is that? well people lie.. thats the sad truth of this..

We dont know if aliens are here or not why? LIES + TRUST

One can only formulate an idea for or against based on trust..

lets look at this in abit more detail in regards to this:

If the goverment did come on telly and say "Yep ufos are real here is the proof meet mr alien"

would people trust them? I think not. I could also see people saying OMG the goverment made the aliens with genetics and the ships are ours and and and!!

you get the point ; )

We are all skeptical of each other always have been always will be!

comes with the job of being a human with no clue why it is infact we are here..

sad but true!

I am not a "sceptic" (SIC) but I am a skeptic.

Although I do not believe in Aliens such as Greys or Alien visitation to this planet via UFOs (I'm certainly open to the possibility if sufficient and satisfactory evidence were ever to be provided), I do admit that from a purely mathematical standpoint, it is not only possible but probable that Extra-terrestrial life exists.

All life on Planet Earth is made up of sequences of 20 Amino Acids which are combined into Protein Strands that make up rDNA. Out of those 20 Amino Acids, 10 of them are found in Meteorites, showing that at least half of the building blocks of life are prevalent throughout the Universe. That makes it pretty darn likely that life is equally as prevalent throughout the Universe.

However, the evolution of Homo Sapiens from those 20 Amino Acids and eventually becoming the predominant form of life on Planet Earth was basically a series of events that would be unlikely to be reproduced elsewhere. Even with those 20 Amino Acids that make up the building blocks of life, there exists an infinite number of combinations that allow for infinite diversity of life. The mathematical likelihood that Extra-terrestrial life evolved parallel to us, in an anthropomorphic form similar to ours, is highly improbable.

If Extra-terrestrial life exists, and it is most likely that it does, it would most commonly be in the form of bacteria and simple organisms. More complex forms of life would more probably be Silicon-based rather than Carbon-based as life on Planet Earth is, and would be entirely foreign to our minds to conceive. Even if Carbon-based Extra-terrestrial life-forms evolved into complex organisms, it would be more likely Insectoid or Saurian than Mammalian lifeforms that happen to be Bi-Pedal, with a Low-Body Mass, possessing Opposable Thumbs, and other Anthropomorphic Traits similar to Humans. Although the Theorists that believe that life on Planet Earth was manipulated by Aliens to evolve parallel to them (created in their own image) attempt to explain away this mathematical impossibility, it relies on a premise that has no compelling proof and requires as great of a leap of faith as Religion and Creationism does. Faith might be good enough for some, but as a skeptic I require demonstrative proof that I can duplicate myself in order to be convinced.

Besides, regardless of if you believe Homo Sapiens we were Created by a god, or seeded by Alien Greys, or Evolved on our own through a series of events that are highly improbable to be duplicated elsewhere in the Universe, there is one common denominator that has not addressed to the satisfaction of skeptics. In any of these scenarios, we know from Anthropology and History, just from the past 50,000 years alone, that as any Culture evolves Technologically, so does it evolve Sociologically. I find it unreasonable to believe that a Technologically evolved Extra-terrestrial species would not have advanced Sociologically as well. Slavery, Genetic Manipulation, Social Manipulation, Abductions, Medical Experiments, et cetera are things that a species at the current Human level of Technological Advancement would do, but a more Technological Advanced Species would most probably not do...assuming that Human Life was indeed Created or Manipulated in the Aliens/God's Image.

So, I do not believe in Aliens as most, although I do believe in the mathematical probability of Extra-Terrestrial life in the form of Bacteria, Simple Organisms, Silicon-based Life-forms or Carbon-based Life-forms that would most likely not be Anthropomorphic to Homo Sapiens. Until I am given sufficient and credible (meaning demonstrable) proof to the contrary, I will continue to put my faith in the Law of Probability and Ockham's Razor.

(And for the record, it doesn't bother me that others may beg to differ. To each their own as that is their own prerogative. I have my criteria for what is "proof" while others have their standards.)

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
We are all skeptical of each other always have been always will be!

comes with the job of being a human with no clue why it is infact we are here...

Although I agree in many ways with your post, I'd like to elaborate upon the ideas you presented.

It is healthy to have a strong dose of skepticism, so long as the mind remains flexible like a reed and open to new experiences and new possibilities. The rational part of our bicameral mind demands at least some level of incredulity because the emphatic part of our bicameral mind tends to be over-credulous to the point of gullibility and blind faith. It is natural for there to be an imbalance towards one side or the other, as the pendulum must swing both ways before coming to rest in the center, and so our minds must be until they find a balance between both extremes.

I'm not a Christian, but one of my favorite quotes is from the Christian Canon. "Test all things and hold fast to those that are true." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:21. I think this sums up perfectly the Hermetic Axioms as well as the Scientific Method of the Late Parecelsian/Late Neo-Platonists.

Does it really harm anything to question everything?

In fact, I would be willing to believe that it is a rather smart survival mechanism that is innate to our psyche.

I guess it all comes down to moderation in all things though.

If you put your Faith in that which you have found to be "True without error, certain without doubt" -- Tabula Smaragdina then for you that is sufficient and sagacious. However, if one blindly places their Faith where it is not tested with a healthy dose of skepticism, one follows the same Path of Folly as those who are so skeptical to never believe in anything.

I have a great amount of Trust in many things. I Trust the 7 Universal Truths to be certain and true...and I trust in Humanity in the same way that is akin to the moral of the cautionary tale of the Gingerbread Man. It is certainly possible to Trust, just so long as you trust in the Nature of a thing, and not what it claims to be, especially when such claims are contrary to it's Nature.

It is certainly possible to Trust, even in other people, but only when that Trust is tempered with skepticism...when their Nature has been tried and found to be True...otherwise, we're nothing more than Gingerbread Men likely to be eaten by the Wolf if we are too gullible to believe just because we are told it's safe by the Wolf.

Personally, I don't believe in aliens. Sorry.

I think there's a possibility that aliens might exist somewhere in the universe, but I've never seen anything to suggest they actually do. And I have no idea as to the probability of aliens existing, because even though we exist, I don't know (or know anybody who does know) how we came to be here in the first place. How a batch of inanimate chemicals join together in a very complicated molecule, inside a relatively complicated container, that knows how to reproduce itself. It might be so incredibly unlikely that it only happened once. So far, anyway.

But accepting that there's a remote possibility that aliens might exist somewhere is very different than believing they do. And at this point, I think that the question itself might be a lot more complicated than it first appears, particularly as it relates to how we define "alien," and how things "exist" in this reality.

Originally posted by Nohup
Personally, I don't believe in aliens. Sorry.

Hehe, no need to apologise, Nohup. I acknowledged that there was a minority of sceptics who do not believe at all, although that train of thought does baffle me a bit because as Fraterormus so eloquently states......from a mathematical standpoint alone it is not only possible but probable that life exists off the planet. If you can't trust maths then what can you trust?