How to Kill Fallujah!

Originally posted by mig12
Fallujah is a radical city. There are no pro-US Iraqis in Fallujah. So, I think we should've just nuked it long ago....

Destroy the city yes. Nuke the city no. I think that carpet bombing would be a good choice. The city has taken enough American lives for one war. Ethnic Cleansing is a terriable thing that should not happen. Make the city a big glass parking lot. Thats my opinion. -Muzz

Originally posted by American Mad Man
"we demand all of the insurgents surrender unconditionally or bombing of your city will comence until such demands are met. Women, children and the elderly may exit without harm. You have 24 hours to comply."

Man, that's just beautiful. Nuking is definitely not the way to go, but we do need to quit pussyfooting around and lay the smack down on these 'insurgents'.

FYI these are not the people we came to liberate...these are the people who others need liberated from.

Much as I really do find AMM's ultimatum appealing, in reality these low-lifes would indeed be grabbing any old person, kid, and otherwise 'civillian' they could find, and chaining themselves to them at the ankles. That's why they're called terrorists. The suicide car-bomb detonated next to the van of schoolchildren yesterday can attest to this. (Couldn't the guy have waited just a few more seconds, sheesh!)

SO i'm sitting here, reading through this post, shocked and apalled. The more this war drags on, the less empathy I'm seeing from members as a whole, and it's worrying. Let me see if I can use my vaunted writing skills to illustrate my point.

You might be able to tell a story, you might have the greatest plot in the world, but without gettign people to feel or associate with the characters it doesn't mean jack. This concept also applies to basic interaction with your fellow man- if you can't feel like the other people can, you might as well just sew your face hole shut. This seems to be problem.

So, let's flash back a few years, to just after the fall of Baghdad. We're in a little place called Fallujah, right? Well, it's a quaint place. After all the uproar, the rule of 10 as always applies: 10% of the people loathe the change, 10% of the people love the change, and the rest don't give two rat frags either way. Now, let's follow Joe Iraqui. He's one of those people in the 80% category: we works at a local grocery store. Yeah, the freedom of speech is nice and all, but none of the changes really affect him. His wife still nags, his children are still going to school, and armed men still patrol the street. Different uniforms, same situation. Doesn't make a whole mountain of change for Joe. He goes to work twelve hours a day, prays, plays with the rugrats, boffs his wife and goes to sleep. Repeat ad infinitum.

Now, let's say one day that Joe is at work, when one of his daughters runs in and tells him that his son got shot. So, he closes the store and rushes to the hospital. After dishing out a ridiculous amount of money to the doctors, he gets the straight scoop. His son had been playing soccer in the streets, and insurgents had attacked a coalition patrol. He hadn't seen it coming, and hadn't been quick enough to get out fo the way. So, he caught a slug through the thigh. While the wound wasn't life threatening, it could have been.

So Joe is, understandably, a little mad at American forces. They shot his SON! Weren't they supposed to be protecting the people? HE complains to his wife, to his friends, to his neighbhoors. They shrug and say "Hey, I feel bad, but the good outweighs the bad." Joe reluctantly agrees of course, and continues about his daily life with a chip on his shoulder. Nothign big, merely a bit of distrust.

Two weeks later, a surgical strike happens down the street. Hank Iraqui's house is flattened, as well as quite a few of the neighbhoor's places in a 'surgical strike'. Now, Hank's out of a house, so he comes running to his friend Joe's place. Joe gets madder, knowing that a few more of the people he knows are dead at the Coalition's hands.

After the funeral for Hank's two children, he joins up with the insurgents. Joe watches and shakes his head. That fool Hank, he says to himself, is going to get hismelf shot. Ironically enough, next month, Hank gets shot and killed in a convoy assault. Now, Joe is mad. There had been irritations, but this is out of hand! they were out and out killing his friends- people he had grown up with, worked with, served on a daily basis.



can you sympathise with Joe? Can you understand that some fo the people in fallujah don't have anywhere else to go? Can you understand that in places like this, the Iraqi ploice who fight agaisnt insurgents are called traitors and treated as such? Can you understand that we are merely creating our own private army of demons?

What would happen if you flattened Fallujah? The entire country would rise up. Cordoned off, it can do less harm.Hope I made things at least a little more clear.

DE

It's funny, I see a lot of you gung-ho types saying that escalation is the way forwards, and yet you don't seem to understand that everything that's happened this April has been due to escalation.

It's not coincidental that the Marines took over Falluja from the 82nd Airborne a few weeks before the entire area became a warzone. The Marines HAVE escalated the situation and as a result over 1000 people have died so far this month. Further escalation will do nothing more than bring the Iraqi situation one step nearer to the Vietnam situation. Iraq isn't there yet, but it won't take much more escalation for it to start looking very similar.

Alienating the population that you're trying to "liberate" isn't very clever. Particularly as it becomes obvious that what the US means by "liberate and provide democracy" translates to "remove man my dad doesn't like and replace with pro-US friends, move all military bases from Saudi to Iraq, ensure good oil supply". Transparent isn't the word...

As far as I can see, a lot of people here have this attitude:

How dare they don't let us give them "Freedom".

Let's kill them all.



Get a grip on reality, people. What right does your country have to be in Iraq to begin with? None. What right do they have to be attacking Fallujah? None.


Great post, btw, Deus.

jako

DeusEx,
Very interesting way of getting your point across. Hopefully somebody can relate to what you're saying. That's one of the biggest problems with Americans, they cannot and will not relate to the people of Iraq. The majority of Iraqis are still suffering grievously because of insurgents (or whatever you want to call them) and the US military.

Dom, you made my very next point.
Escalation will not work. It's plain and simple. Go ahead, amp it up and see what happens. I have nothing more to add to your concise view.

Beirut is actually the most similar case. Maybe some of you were so young you don't recall the situation. It was heinous, close-quarters combat. Reagan did the best thing he could do. He cut his losses and pulled the troops out after the Marines were bombed. There was no point in our being there.

There are many similarities with Vietnam, though.

The same logic of escalation where the appeal to reinforce American troops does not seem to be accompanied by the least progress in the "locals" taking charge themselves of their own political and military affairs.

The same impression that it's necessary in order to be able to save towns and villages to begin by destroying them, that the population must be subjugated in order to be able to democratize it.
truthout.org...


CHAOS REIGNS:

Future Iraqi Security Forces Are Already Unraveling
By Sophie Shihab
Le Monde

Thursday 22 April 2004

Chaos reigns in the heart of the different "auxiliary" corps to coalition forces in Iraq, ruining any hope they may be able to take over as planned June 30. It's official: Paul Bremer, the American Administrator, has acknowledged it, while his new Interior Minister, Samir Al-Souwayda�, announces massive purges of these units, which, in any case, are unraveling. "Pitiful performances", desertions, even "going over to the enemy" in the middle of battles have increased since the beginning of the hot days of April. The most affected units are naturally the police, who work in their own neighborhoods, in the middle of their near and dear, all the while remaining the choice targets for attacks like those that bloodied Basra again, Wednesday, April 21.

In the Sunni zones, Falluja, for example, the police en masse have been won over by or surrendered to the Iraqi "resistance" which has the wind in its sails ever since the town was surrounded and attacked by American Marines. But the most significant defections are undoubtedly the recent ones of what were considered to be the future elite corps.
truthout.org...

DX, Very nicely said. I cant believe, someone would say just nuke them.

First of all we shouldnt even be there. They are doing the samething that we would do here.

But we are fighting for them Did they ask us for help? NO!

Okay, Okay, Maybe not a nuke, but as muzz said, carpet bombing would be a useful alternative.

Deus, what if you were a wife or realtive of some of the reporters that got diemebered and the DESECRATED in fallujah?

Wouldn't you wanna nuke em all?

Hypothetical situation: What would you do if China went against the world community's best advice and somehow took over the U.S. while we are bogged down overseas? - Because they felt our Democracy needed to be overthrown b/c their way of life was more suitable to their interests? (And let's just say a percentage - 48% - of Americans wanted to see Bush overthrown.)

I know what I would do. I'd fight like hell to get rid of them. It isn't any different from how Iraqis feel. Now that Saddam is gone - and yes, most of them are glad for that - they want us to leave them to themselves and their own rule. It is, at least, understandable. No?

But Saddam posed a threat in the near future to our way of life.

Originally posted by mig12
But Saddam posed a threat in the near future to our way of life.

No, he did not. That has been proven false beyond a shadow of a doubt.

China is a far greater threat to our (future) way of life.

What would you do if that happened?

I have an idea... Kinda hehe make an announcment to all those people in Faluja give the 3 minutes to turn their weapons in and when they don't do it ...and they won't ... drop about ten MOABs on them. Mop up the remains with a giant front end loader dump their bodies in a giant pile set it on fire then drop another 500 pound bomb on the pile. and call it problem solved have a nice day. Any of you other bastards that don't want to turn over your weapons and become peaseful and start rebuilding your country say hello to the the US armed forces MOABs LOL

Let the flaming begin you wimps

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by KillerT]

Kinda like this KT






[Edited on 23-4-2004 by KillerD]

Originally posted by KillerT
I have an idea... Kinda hehe make an announcment to all those people in Faluja give the 3 minutes to turn their weapons in and when they don't do it ...and they won't ... drop about ten MOABs on them. Mop up the remains with a giant front end loader dump their bodies in a giant pile set it on fire then drop another 500 pound bomb on the pile. and call it problem solved have a nice day. Any of you other bastards that don't want to turn over your weapons and become peaseful and start rebuilding your country say hello to the the US armed forces MOABs LOL

Let the flaming begin you wimps

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by KillerT]

I have an even better idea: Why don't you go join the military and volunteer for Iraq duty.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Ok and maybe they will let me push the button that rolls the MOAB out of the back of the airplane and then explodes about 100 yards above their heads and sucks the oxegen from their lungs and kills them all.! with one swift blow! sounds like a deal to me LOL

Originally posted by KillerT
Ok and maybe they will let me push the button that rolls the MOAB out of the back of the airplane and then explodes about 100 yards above their heads and sucks the oxegen from their lungs and kills them all.!

with one swift blow! sounds like a deal to me LOL

Or maybe you'd land in country, spend the first day wanting to cry like a baby because you've landed in hell's A-hole and piss yourself.

I have to say, your bloodlust is revolting.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
You go read about it and than come back and tell me that the Sunni's are a good edition to Iraq and we should negotiate with them.

You guys actually realise that those words don't differ that much from Hitlers reasoning to kill Jews?

The geneva convention is for all humans and not for only for Americans and the rest is decided by US decission.

What's the problem with some of you retarded Americans? You go into countries that you shouldn't mind about and when the people of those countries are sick of you, you guys even want to blow them off the map. Retarded, totally retarded.

Thank God not all Americans are affected by idiotic groupthink. And to think we may have once been the most admired nation on earth. In the course of one administration's tenure all of that prestige and friendship has been near completely pissed away.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
In the course of one administration's tenure all of that prestige and friendship has been near completely pissed away.

That's true. 5-6 years before, all over Europe - the people hoped to go at least one year to the great USA.

Nowadays they are more likely joining an al-quaida cell than signing up for a greencard.

And sorry to say so - but it came through Bush. Clintons BJ even made America more sympathic

Why dont we sleep gas the entire town?
Go in a detain anyone holding a weapon, and tuck everyone else up in bed.