Congress to Revive Hate Crime Bill to Censor Christians

You can bet there will be full on riots if this government decides to start jailing those that preach what is in the bible. If this countries leadership has turned that much from it's roots, it's time for a real change.

Originally posted by jfj123
First, hate crimes have been on the books for years.

I understand that, doesn't mean it's truly constitutional though.

Second, hate crimes legislation is designed to dissuade people from committing crimes against vulnerable minorities.

Most laws are well-intentioned, no matter how bad or unconstitutional they actually are.

Third, as I mentioned, I'm not in favor of any hate crime legislation.

On this we agree 100%.

Finally,
Just as a general response, the title says
Congress to Revive Hate Crime Bill to Censor Christians
This is absolutely UNTRUE.

I agree this bill does not appear to directly censor speech without criminal actions, but personally I don't think they knowingly lied. There is strong suspicion in the christian community that the US is headed for netherlands style censorship where pastors have been arrested for preaching against homosexuality. This leads to a natural tendancy to distrust any bill that has the slightest appearance of leading us in that direction. And in all fairness, state hate crimes laws similar to this HAVE been abused to charge religious demonstrators with "inciting hate."
www.cwfa.org...
There is a case to be made that something similar to this bill could be abused to arrest demonstrators, maybe even pastors, for "attempting to incite violence." Pennsylvania Supreme Court later struck down their version of this bill for technical reasons:
www.chalcedon.edu...
Not the same as outright censorship, no, but abuseable? Probably.

Considering that the bible belt are bent on destroying the country, this might not be a bad thing.

The worst of voters on the planet!
Yes... the entire planet!!!!

Originally posted by on_yur_6
You can bet there will be full on riots if this government decides to start jailing those that preach what is in the bible. If this countries leadership has turned that much from it's roots, it's time for a real change.

Why is nobody actually reading this thread.
The government is NOT,
I REPEAT NOT
trying to censor christians.
THE OP LIED about what was in the bill.

Read it for yourself and you'll see there is ZERO evidence to suggest ANY type of censorship will occur.

TO REPEAT
THE OP LIED about what was in the bill.
The OP's own link shows he/she is wrong.

Once again.... for jfj123 & Semper Paratus RJCC

I do not ever use hate speech. My purpose in bringing this to ATS attention was because it a further attempt by the U.S. government to take away our freedoms. I have NEVER visited this christian website before. I saw the link while doing a doing an internet search and was very interested in how and why the government wants to censure our speech. The title of the article is NOT the title I would have chosen. ATS ask for the "actual title of the article".

I LOVE all types of people including gays. My husbands brother was gay. One of My room mates in the Army was gay. I have had many gay friends.
I also have many different types of spiritual friends. I think we can learn something from everyone if we are KIND & open.

My motto for my life is:

LOVE ONE ANOTHER

Stop disrespecting me!
PLZ read the whole post completely & try to remain civil.

Your damaging opinions are *exactly* where HATE starts.

I forgive you for your spiteful tongues.

Careful! How you treat others eventually comes back to U!

Originally posted by ngchunter
And in all fairness, state hate crimes laws similar to this HAVE been abused to charge religious demonstrators with "inciting hate."
www.cwfa.org...

In all fairness, almost every law has been abused. Are you suggesting we should eliminate all laws on this basis?

There is a case to be made that something similar to this bill could be abused to arrest demonstrators, maybe even pastors, for "attempting to incite violence." Pennsylvania Supreme Court later struck down their version of this bill for technical reasons:
www.chalcedon.edu...
Not the same as outright censorship, no, but abuseable? Probably.

Every law has the potential for abuse but that's not a reason to get rid of it.

In my opinion, the OP DID know what they wrote was false as his/her own posts showed nothing about censoring free speech in any way.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by JensLekman

Originally posted by skeptic1

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by skeptic1
I am all for free speech, but not for hate speech.

Then you are not for free speech. It's easy to defend speech you at least perceive as "nice." It takes integrity to defend speech you vehemently disagree with because it's the right thing to do, not because you support it.

I support free speech and I will fight for it.

I don't support hate speech, but as long it is free, I will fight for it, too.

Hate speech adds nothing to society. It drives people apart, and does nothing to bring them together. But, it is still covered under free speech. So, I will fight for it even though I see no use in it.

What are you defining hate as? To say it adds nothing is a bit of a misnomer when, although it may be crude in its delivery, there may be a legitimate reason behind it.

If a white person were to say they are afraid of black people because they are disproportionately victimized by them, which is an indisputable fact, is that hateful? At what point are statistical facts considered hate? If that fear makes them not want to be around them, is that unreasonable? I don't know, and either do you. We can't just assign values to people and then berate them when they don't live up to them, which is what I believe you're proposing we do.

As example,
If you beat a black man and the motive is that you hate him, that constitute a hate crime.
Does that help?

Again, the legislation does not include limiting speech to protected classes.

For example, you can say you don't like black people all day and give reasons why, which may even be racist, and nothing will happen to you legally.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by jfj123]

If you're asking for my personal opinion, the fact that you're beating someone is enough to warrant a severe punishment, the motive should be irrelevant unless in the case of self defense.

As a Criminologist however, I know that the majority of victims in violent inter-racial crime are white. However, the majority of people charged with hate crimes are white. The legislation was created from a moral panic, and thus, begins to encompass so called "criminals" that it was never intended for. I take hate crime laws for what they are, the product of one or two brutal racially motivated crimes and societies over-reaction to a sad, but extremely rare, event.

My worry stems from the fact that I believe we're heading in the direction where we won't be able to discuss anything related to race, sexuality, etc... for fear of offending someone or, maybe one day, criminal prosecution.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by JensLekman]

[edit on 7-4-2009 by JensLekman]

i am not for any kind of censorship. i also can not understand the us and uk governments bending over backward to protect islam. they preach that muslim moderates are the norm but in reality the radical muslims are the ones in charge in the middle east. why the powers that be try to stifle anybody that talks out about the muslim faith. i believe the whole reason behind the first amendment was to keep stuff like this law from happening.

reply to post by jfj123


I am NOT a LIAR and do not appreciate you repeatedly stating this.

Let me break this down for you....

Hate Crime Laws remove Free Speech.

Removing Free Speech is Censorship.

I do NOT agree with censorship or having laws such as the hate bill.

Understand?

So, what happened with the separation of the church and state? It only works when we need to eliminate Christian views...but not when we need to protect Christians from the state???

There is no freedom in so called "democracy". Once we cannot talk free in our churches, we are not humans any more. We are slaves.

We will have to again, like during communist times, to run and hide...nothing new under the sun.

Just an ironic question: are jews and muslims also required to accept homosexuals?

And last, but the most important: Don't be too happy, YOU WILL NEVER DESTROY CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As long as there is ONE true Christian on this planet, their will be fear among the bankers, atheists and other haters. That is fear of TRUE LOVE, fear of TRUTH!!!


Don't have illusions that laws will ever stop the truth.

Originally posted by greshnik
Once we cannot talk free in our churches, we are not humans any more. We are slaves.

Churches never been about free talk, only like-minded are allowed for free talk...

Originally posted by greshnik
We will have to again, like during communist times, to run and hide...nothing new under the sun

Atheists hid from religious people for thousands of years. What is your point?

Originally posted by cindy22761

Once again.... for jfj123 & Semper Paratus RJCC

I do not ever use hate speech. My purpose in bringing this to ATS attention was because it a further attempt by the U.S. government to take away our freedoms. I have NEVER visited this christian website before. I saw the link while doing a doing an internet search and was very interested in how and why the government wants to censure our speech. The title of the article is NOT the title I would have chosen. ATS ask for the "actual title of the article".

I LOVE all types of people including gays. My husbands brother was gay. One of My room mates in the Army was gay. I have had many gay friends.
I also have many different types of spiritual friends. I think we can learn something from everyone if we are KIND & open.

My motto for my life is:

LOVE ONE ANOTHER

Stop disrespecting me!
PLZ read the whole post completely & try to remain civil.

So do you admit that the title is completely wrong?
And do you admit that the bill in question, as posted by you, in no way infringes upon freedom of speech?

Your damaging opinions are *exactly* where HATE starts.

If you read your own posts, you'd know why I'm saying what I'm saying.

I forgive you for your spiteful tongues.

Careful! How you treat others eventually comes back to U!

I in no way am being spiteful. All I'm saying is that either you did not read the bill or the link you posted to the religious website, or you're misrepresenting what is on the websites.

I'll be willing to believe whichever you choose:
1. You don't have enough information to speak on the subject you're posting about.
or
2. You're deliberately misrepresenting the bill in question.

So you tell me which one it is and I'll believe you.

Originally posted by greshnik
So, what happened with the separation of the church and state? It only works when we need to eliminate Christian views...but not when we need to protect Christians from the state???"

Ummmm and who are you saying its only keeping the christians down. You self centered "Christians" are the only people walking up to peoples houses in the middle of the goddamn day saying "Have you heared the good news". I havent seen any Muslims or Jews walking upo to my door offering me the torah and the Quaran. You all are infringing on everyone elses rights when you try to force your religion down other peoples throats. There is also another Amendment. FREEDOM OF RELIGION

Just an ironic question: are jews and muslims also required to accept homosexuals?"

They dont have to.... hell you wouldnt have to either. you would just get jailtime. You can keep going on your little hate trip. Hating everyone who isnt a fuzzy wuzzy and Im perfectly fine with it. You can sit there and Hate me for being a witch, but read your #in holy book. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR..... ok are you with me on this one moses.

And last, but the most important: Don't be too happy, YOU WILL NEVER DESTROY CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As long as there is ONE true Christian on this planet, their will be fear among the bankers, atheists and other haters. That is fear of TRUE LOVE, fear of TRUTH!!!


Don't have illusions that laws will ever stop the truth.

I dont see anyone trying to destroy christianity. Its people like you who make other christians asshamed to be. There fore you all yourselves are tearing down your churches and slaying your families with your hate filled desires of destroying what you would consider "Filth". But that filth has a name. Humanity. and apparently we are all loved one and the same by ytour god now get the # off your high horse and open your eyes.

Originally posted by proteus33
i am not for any kind of censorship. i also can not understand the us and uk governments bending over backward to protect islam. they preach that muslim moderates are the norm but in reality the radical muslims are the ones in charge in the middle east. why the powers that be try to stifle anybody that talks out about the muslim faith. i believe the whole reason behind the first amendment was to keep stuff like this law from happening.

Who is trying to stifle people that are talking about the muslim faith???
Just curious.

Originally posted by cindy22761
reply to post by jfj123

 

I am NOT a LIAR and do not appreciate you repeatedly stating this.

I'm sorry. Maybe you just haven't read anything that you've posted.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go ahead and believe you're simply ignorant of the subject matter on your own thread.

Let me break this down for you....

Hate Crime Laws remove Free Speech.

Please be specific as to how this happens.

Removing Free Speech is Censorship.

Free speech is not absolute.
For example, you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre unless of course there really is a fire.
You can't accuse someone of a crime and damage their reputation either verbally or in print.
etc..

I do NOT agree with censorship or having laws such as the hate bill.

So you agree that anyone can say anything about anyone else at any time and for any reason, regardless of whether or not it's true?


[edit on 7-4-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by greshnik
So, what happened with the separation of the church and state? It only works when we need to eliminate Christian views...but not when we need to protect Christians from the state???

There is no freedom in so called "democracy". Once we cannot talk free in our churches, we are not humans any more. We are slaves.

Please explain how the bill will do this?
Please do so in detail.
Thanks.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by greshnik
So, what happened with the separation of the church and state? It only works when we need to eliminate Christian views...but not when we need to protect Christians from the state???

There is no freedom in so called "democracy". Once we cannot talk free in our churches, we are not humans any more. We are slaves.

Please explain how the bill will do this?
Please do so in detail.
Thanks.

Because apparently its a commandment stating that christians have to hate everything that doesnt eat sleep and breath the blood of jesus. I personally dont care. If he wants to go on his deluded rant then so be it. Hes one more bigot in the world that I can gafra if he gets persecuted by the true christians.

Originally posted by jfj123
In all fairness, almost every law has been abused. Are you suggesting we should eliminate all laws on this basis?

No, but I am saying there is a legitimacy behind concern that a bill like this could lend itself to censorship-like abuse. There are reasons to not pass it that go to its constitutionality imho, which trump mere concerns.

Every law has the potential for abuse but that's not a reason to get rid of it.

That's no excuse to pass laws that have already been shown to lend themselves to abuse, it should instead motivate us to write safeguards into new laws. I don't see any additional safeguards in this bill.

Oh, no...muslims and jews are friendly people, all the trouble in the world is because of Christians. And they are the only ones that true democracy has to control in order to establish "freedom".

You are just attacking the ones you were told to attack, the ones media trained you to attack.

I am what you know as "Greek Orthodox". The only true Christian I have seen and heard in USA is Kent Hovind, and he is in jail for 10 years (that just confirms that he is genuine). Please don't even bother to talk about unpaid taxes...Obama is surrounded with people who never pay taxes...banks and corporations managed to spend trillions of dollars...and nobody knows where the money is. The only one who is in jail, for 10 years, is the one that used the money for children, for education. He lived a modest life.

Your democracy is the worst kind of slavery that human kind ever had!

reply to post by cindy22761


You mean like when Bush came out and publicly announced that my religion wasn't a real religion and will not be recongized as such?



The same christians who try to get evolution banned in schools, Who ban books.

Or the catholic church publicly getting their panties in a bunch about a work of fiction?

IF I were to build a nice church, the say. the First National church of Gaia, it would be burned down in a week. And who would burn it down do you think?

Funny how censorship is only a problem when the shoe is on teh other foot.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by nixie_nox]