"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

Really, all these threads about ID?

Lets look at two possibilities:

1. ID

2. The world was created by a giant magic lobster called Colin

Neither are proved nor disproved.

Lets face it, the Colin idea is far more entertaining and we don't have to worry about all that guilt from original sin, when I didn't do anything wrong.

reply to post by mithrawept


I appreciate where you are coming from. It boils down to a creator or the universe exists plain and simple. Why can God "just exist" and the Universe not?

We are at a stalemate. 50/50, a leap of faith is required.

For me, THE VERY FACT THE ARGUMENT EXISTS provides me with enough reasoning to believe in a Creator.

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

It isnt really, and i havent tried to argue such. I was arguing religion in general vs science. How they CAN go hand in hand. Rather than pitted against eachother. I treat all religious texts as guides, well thought out guides from a certain perspective.

"Well thought out"? Oh really? Well thought out for the 1st Century, maybe. However, "guide" would be equally applicable to most of Charles Dickens' books.

Good and Evil are subjective. Therefore, no guide apart from your own is every going to qualify completely.

Good and evil are subjective? So it's subjective to say dropping mortar shells on school kids lined up to get their books. (1993 or '94, IIRC.) It's subjective to have rape as a policy of war? (Darfur, and many other places.)

Anyway, you have a nice life, you hear?

Originally posted by kleah
If you look at this world and all the things around us,the incredible beauty everywhere,the complexity of living things,the human body,etc etc ,how can anyone be stupid enough to fight against intelligent design?

Look...please dont be rude. You obviously havent thought about this enough. Yes the Universe is EXTREMELY complex but that doesnt necessarily suggest a designer!

For example, say the chance of the universe being created with all its complexity, beauty etc is 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 ETC....

Since matter did no exist before the big bang, time didnt neither. S = d / t.
Therefore, with an infinite amount of time, this extremely small probability would eventually come about.

Dont call people stupid. It is you who just portrayed ignorance.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

It isnt really, and i havent tried to argue such. I was arguing religion in general vs science. How they CAN go hand in hand. Rather than pitted against eachother. I treat all religious texts as guides, well thought out guides from a certain perspective.

"Well thought out"? Oh really? Well thought out for the 1st Century, maybe. However, "guide" would be equally applicable to most of Charles Dickens' books.

Good and Evil are subjective. Therefore, no guide apart from your own is every going to qualify completely.

Good and evil are subjective? So it's subjective to say dropping mortar shells on school kids lined up to get their books. (1993 or '94, IIRC.) It's subjective to have rape as a policy of war? (Darfur, and many other places.)

Anyway, you have a nice life, you hear?

Who said killing is wrong?

Originally posted by ToughivWho said killing is wrong?

Will the people who think atheists are morally impaired please take note.

I know you are just trolling, but I'm bored, so: Killing children isn't wrong?

If you want to play word games, find somebody else.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


While it is true I was looking for an argument. However, my point remains valid. Good and Evil are subjective. They are subjective to your upbringing, personal experiences and social virtues.

For example, suicide is considered wrong. However, within Japanese tradition, should you bring shame upon your family, it was once duty to perform Hara-Kiri. I.e. to fall upon your own sword.

Everything within reality is subjective, since you are perceiving it from one view point. If you were to try and argue for absolute Good and Evils then I would be more than glad to hear it. I myself hope to discover absolute truths since that is better than being led by ever-changing, easily manipulated "standards of conduct". However, i think you will find it is very hard to define these absolute truths.

The problem also has to be with linguistics. A word represents a concept. It is those concepts that are subjective since you perceive and understand those concepts from one view points.

For example, If i held a pen out in front of you and I and asked the simple question "Can you see what I see?" the truth is as a whole yes we both see a pen. However, it is the fine details of that said pen that will vary according to each of our view points.

Agree?

Brad

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by ToughivWho said killing is wrong?

Will the people who think atheists are morally impaired please take note.

I know you are just trolling, but I'm bored, so: Killing children isn't wrong?

If you want to play word games, find somebody else.

May I ask why is it different to kill a child than a adult?

Thanks

Originally posted by ToughivMay I ask why is it different to kill a child than a adult?

Thanks

Morally or ethically? Either way, it is a bad idea. Human beings have no trouble understanding this. Others may struggle.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
Morally or ethically? Either way, it is a bad idea. Human beings have no trouble understanding this. Others may struggle.

I fear we have gone off topic. Intelligent design is not a conspiracy, it is a view point that can be argued against but neither side holds more weight than the other.

As for killing, would you say there are no justifable circumstances?

ID is just a biased opinion. It doesn't make predictions and it can't be tested.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by ToughivI fear we have gone off topic. Intelligent design is not a conspiracy, it is a view point that can be argued against but neither side holds more weight than the other.

Wrong, and educated people know it. The ID position is wholly fabricated and a plain lie designed to further religious dogma. Sorry.

As for killing, would you say there are no justifable circumstances?

I've killed a few people in my day. Never liked it and avoided it when I could. I did not, however, blindly drop mortars on groups of children.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by ToughivI fear we have gone off topic. Intelligent design is not a conspiracy, it is a view point that can be argued against but neither side holds more weight than the other.

Wrong, and educated people know it. The ID position is wholly fabricated and a plain lie designed to further religious dogma. Sorry.

Please further this argument. That above is just a statement. You have no justification for it. If educated people know it, why is it I am arguing for it? Explain, how is it wholly fabricated? It is a lie? or a view point?

We just had a whole discussion on Science vs Religion and you agreed with me. How can you now go against that? :S

reply to post by Toughiv


"If educated people know it, why is it I am arguing for it?"

That's too easy. I'll let you off this time.

And please, if you gotz edymucation, you might consider trying to use the quote function correctly.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


¬_¬ grow up.

Yes, perhaps, but ID must be a valid theory because it has the word "intelligent" in it. And design sounds like engineering to me. That's a science. These elements make it such an attractive alternative to the evil-lution idea. Also, an oldish, gray haired, geezerish type god guy makes so much more sense than a giant, reddish, magic spewing lobster. Really, come on dude. That sounds like the Flying Spaghetti Monster of flyingspaghettimonster.com. They have pirates and stuff in their belief system. Are there pirates in the magic lobster story?

A bit from FSM.COM....
"1254 Varghese Mathew Feb 17th, 2009 at
After being an agnostic (or spagnostic as you call it), and also having been in touch with many major world religions including Christianity, Hinduism, and Islam, I’ve really quit on it now. I believe the existence of the universe necessitates a creative intelligence. And I did not have to be influenced by external motivators to come to that conclusion.
Honestly, if there’s no god creative intelligence, then existence has no purpose - one might as well commit suicide.
1255 spasticnutz Feb 18th, 2009 at
“Honestly, if there’s no god creative intelligence, then existence has no purpose - one might as well commit suicide.”
We’ll miss you Varghese Mathew.
1256 Slash Prower Feb 18th, 2009 at
I’m sticking with a belief that there might be an afterlife, but there’s no omnipotent god watching over us all and we are the products of evolution.
…However, I still suggest praising our Noodly Lord.
1257 plumberbob Feb 18th, 2009 at
@ - Varghese Mathew #1263,
I don’t understand, and I wish you would explain to me, Why is it necessary that existence has any purpose? I find it exciting that I happen to be here for this instant of time. I can make a purpose of doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with the mystery of the universe.
RAmen
1258 BlackBard Feb 19th, 2009 at
@ Varghese Mathew said, “Honestly, if there’s no god creative intelligence, then existence has no purpose - one might as well commit suicide.”
There you have it. The essence of existential angst. The existence of a “god creative intelligence,” as you put it, does not necessarily provide any purpose for life. It is the insistence of the christians who want to teach ID that is worrying. It is the christian version of god that they want to impose on science, not just some intelligent first cause. If they get to do it, then we should, too. Evolution, however, does not deal with intention. It deals with process.
For Pastafarians, the FSM created the universe (after having been “over served”) for his own purposes, not ours. It is our desire to live a life such that we gain entry into heaven, thus access to the fresh beer volcano near the stripper factory, but we do not seek to impose our beliefs on others, nor does the FSM care if we believe in Him or not.
RAmen
1259 theFewtheProudtheMarinara Feb 20th, 2009 at
Varghese Mathew (#1263): Who says everything has a purpose? Where is that written? And if you feel that way, it’s up to YOU to find that purpose. I have, and it doesn’t include bowing and scraping to an all-Powerful (or at least all-Vain) deity."

Don't worry, several courts have said that ID in schools are unconstitutional, sorry fundies, but god stays OUT of our biology.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
IDers are conspiring to inject religion into schools under the guise of "science". Dover, Del., and the Evolution Wars in Kansas have shown this to be the case.

What I'm wondering is if they think the whole country is stupid enough to believe that ID is anything but a sham?

what you claim requires people use their mind, not some diatribe from the pulpit. The bible is a wnderfull morality play (if you dont have a problen with slavery, et,) not a science text book.

Most Creationists, Intelligent Design Advocates or other Lunatics attempt to seem scientific by developing terms such as Irreducible Complexity, or Intelligent Intervention, try to use as little as posisible the word GOD, and go on to misquote science to get their ends. It is all a sham to make christians, make money, and make more christians with that money, and make more money, stupid Vatican.