You get this when police brutality happens with thousands of eye witnesses.

reply to post by Terribilis eSt locus iste


While you guys have valid points, they do not remove from the main point of the incident. The soccer field is not a country unto itself, people have the same right not to get beaten there as they do outside of the field. Off duty police officers are hired because of their training, they would have reacted the same way had the situation occured while they were on duty. The bigger picture here is that when large gourps of people have had enough, they become a tsunami of anger that feeds on itself. Police have a pretty common attitude of resorting to force way beyond what is needed to protect themselves. If they are that frightened of everybody, they shouldn't be police officers. We're not animals, but if we get treated that way enough, why not show them how real animals act?

reply to post by Terribilis eSt locus iste


Sometimes reading through 8 pages of more or less the same recycled statements is easier said than done.

I understand exactly what John Matrix is saying. It doesn't matter if they're private security, body guards or the power rangers, what they did was wrong and they certainly used the wrong approach with subduing this guy.

Yes, he should get the facts straight, but he's not arguing about their identity, he's arguing the wrongs of their actions. So, please, don't miss the main point by addressing points that aren't really worth addressing.

Incompetent cops are no secret. We all know about them. We're not here to place blame on who did what, we're saying what should be done and what should not be done. We're not focusing on the who, but on the act, so give John some slack please.

reply to post by 27jd


One of the differences (maybe the biggest) is that this was in Switzerland and those were Swiss security guards; the man with the banner was Portuguese, the banner was in support of the Portuguese referee and the people that reacted against the security guards were (at least judging by their shirts) Portuguese.

So, this may have been more a case of the Portuguese seeing the attacked man as a representative of their country and the guards as representatives of Switzerland, and if that was the case then this is not the same as people thinking that the guards were exaggerating. They were, but that may not have been the main reason for the public's reaction.

Edit:
I forgot to add that the fact that they were not from the same country affected the guards behaviour, maybe they would not be so aggressive with Swiss citizens, but this is only speculation from me.

[edit on 8/4/2009 by ArMaP]

Originally posted by ArMaP
So, this may have been more a case of the Portuguese seeing the attacked man as a representative of their country and the guards as representatives of Switzerland, and if that was the case then this is not the same as people thinking that the guards were exaggerating. They were, but that may not have been the main reason for the public's reaction.

I see what you're saying. They may have felt like the swiss were treating the man that way because of his nationality and were attacking out of pride as opposed to just trying to help somebody who's being beaten. You may very well be right.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by John Matrix

Yes we need law enforcement, but not ruthless paramilitary thugs.
What this situation needed was a simple escort off the field. One cop on each arm telling the guy he had his fun and now it's time to go so the game can get under way. IMHO, 100% the guy would have gone peacefully.

Here is how I would have handled it. Intercept the guy and don't pull him to the ground and say, OK, OK....(laugh with him) ha,ha,ha,ha.....that's very funny sir....but we really got to just wave at the crowd now and let the game get under way.....please sir....come this way....(turn and give a victory wave to the crown....big ear to ear grin, and two cops escort him off). End of story. And don't come back suggesting what if the guy did this or that, bla, bla, bla. The guy was there to have some fun, not to hurt anyone. If he got violent after what I suggest, then four guys carry him off the field laughing and waving to the crowd.....still no violence.

I have calmed many. MANY violent people down in my life. I usually do it in a matter of seconds, just by using the right words, expression and tone.




[edit on 7/4/09 by John Matrix]

I stated originally, I think on page 4-ish, that the cops or security or whatever were wrong. I am not debating that one bit and I agree with how you would have handled it. He broke a law and should have been escorted off of the field without the smack down. My whole point here is that so many people seem to be saying that there should be no laws or police or etc. and they also agree with the mob who were acting in the same way as the security people if not worse. This is a huge step toward anarchy. Then the same people will be screaming for protection from the society they asked for in the first place. When the mob rules, the first thing to go is morality and compassion for others. Yes, what the probably drunk guy did was "harmless', but it was still against the rules and needed to be handled. At least you seem to agree with me that this person broke the rules and should have been escorted out of the stadium. And I agree with you that the security was way out of bounds with this. But having a society with no laws, as some here seem to suggest, is way not the answer.
I would rather have reasonable laws and people like you(or at least how you seem to be) to enforce them.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by tallcool1

 

Don't get too confident, usually it's those who are overconfident that die first, be careful.

I wasn't meaning to come across as overconfident, although I probably am a little overconfident. I'm a fairly big guy - most of us are overconfident.

I'm just betting that many of the people who seem to be asking for anarchy would not be able to survive on their own for more that a day or two. They seem to think it will be like some fun little video game.

Originally posted by Concept X
Way to go fans, teach those pricks a lesson.

I #ing hate power mad people. think there above everyone and everything.

Idiots.

Why then is it ok for the power mad crowd who thinks they are above everyone and everything to go and do the same thing? So, according to you it's both not ok to do this and it is ok to do this. So you live your life by double standards then?

Wow, way to get past the censors with the swearing. You know, those power mad people who want to enforce the rules you agreed to when you created an account.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by tallcool1]Oops, looks like the post was censored while I was commenting on it.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by tallcool1]

Originally posted by tallcool1
Why then is it ok for the power mad crowd who thinks they are above everyone and everything to go and do the same thing?

Do you believe it is ever justified for the masses to rise against abusive authority? Do you believe there is always a peaceful way to unseat the very powerful? I know what you mean about anarchy being a scary thing, i'm also a very healthy individual with my share of guns, but i certainly wouldn't want my family to live in some lawless environment, just about everybody gets caught off guard at some point. But i do believe after any initial riots or whatever took place, the people in general would come together in some way and keep general order until new leadership was established. I can't think of anybody who isn't a sociopath advocating anarchy, i just think people feel pretty abused by authority right now and this mob scene video plays into what we wish we could do as a whole to those who ARE abusing us...

People here tend to think that once a suspect has hit the ground they start complying. however that's rarely the case, because there is something called a "locked joint." Do you know how hard it is to force a man's arm into the proper position in order to handcuff them? they have to do it twice; once for the left are and once for the right.

i dont care if there are 4 police men or 20, if a person locks their joint, then that about it; its a done deal because there is no way its going to bend. the only way to get his arm to fold, is by causing the muscles to stop tensing which is usually through administering a quick sharp pain (i.e. Punching).

you guys seem to forget how hard it is to do a police officers job, for all you know the suspect was grabbing on to the cops holster and that's why the officer punched him repeatedly.

All i ever hear is "if i were a cop i would have [blank] instead of [blank] like those officers." well, your not so your just imagining things...

reply to post by BabyTeaLeaf


I worked for police for two days and they do nothing, so whats your point.

The people on the street do not know they just sit there doing nothing all day.

Originally posted by BabyTeaLeaf
People here tend to think that once a suspect has hit the ground they start complying.

But in this case, the suspect shouldn't have hit the ground in the first place. He was being a goofball and an idiot, but he was not deserving of that kind of takedown. The punishment didn't fit the crime. If he had just led them on a high speed chase and endangered lives, etc. then there would be a need to subdue him with that kind of force, but not here. Just making them get off their butts isn't a reason to bring him down like lions on a zebra, they need better people skills...it's just a game.

reply to post by Blundo

*Snip* SHEEP.

im all for the cops. USE tazers.. be rough. the masses are idiots. whats that dude running around like an idiot for? like a chicken with NO CLUE what he is doing. holding up the game.
"LOOK AT ME.. la la la la"

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.




[edit on 4/11/2009 by semperfortis]

That last post by MrJelly is out of order.
At least one policeman was using uneccessary force,
and as can be seen,his colleague,(who bore the brunt
of the angry mob) remonstrated with the beater.
It is a pity that the footballer who obviously had a much better view
than the video itself lashed out with the boot.
Anyway,if the daft protester was in a jointlock,
what better way then than four policemen to pick
him up by each limb and carry him out?
or is that against health and safety rules too!
It was an absolute disgrace,and the police most likely have lost
one contientious policeman.

Just another degree in this boiling pot of a world...The preasure is building and if no one takes the pot off the stove, its not if, its when will the world boil over...

Originally posted by MrJelly
reply to post by Blundo

 

*Snip* SHEEP.

im all for the cops. USE tazers.. be rough. the masses are idiots. whats that dude running around like an idiot for? like a chicken with NO CLUE what he is doing. holding up the game.
"LOOK AT ME.. la la la la"

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

So your attitude would be the "SS troops" who were "elite" were above the "sheep" or the masses...

A good policeman knows how to treat his fellow man, know how to diffuse difficult situations, and bring normalcy to the situation...

The man on the field was just a "fan" of the game, yes he took it to far. But as the public opinion always does, judges on actions, they were for the cops up to a point, then they crossed what the public thought was decent and responsable police work.

[edit on 4/11/2009 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Now, those of you that think you know how to run a country better than Thomas Jefferson, stand up and let yourselves be counted.

If not, well then STFU.

I think I can. Jefferson did not realize that most of the populace was still heavily under the influence of a thousand years of roman catholic enforcement of social norms. He was intelligent but rich, was around affluent people a lot and as a result naive.

reply to post by Oaktree



Trust me, they wont until it’s too late.

This is a combination of stupid people and stupid cops all going at it.
You see they enjoy beating on people who can’t fight back.

Today’s generation of Police Officer prides themselves on being brutal and corrupt and most of all they hate the people they are supposed to protect.

Woe on to anyone who has to deal with a cop who is a bad mood.

In my time a few heads got busted but it was mostly people who deserved it and most importantly we knew when it was time to talk and when it was time to fight.

The modern Police Officer has moreadvanced tools and better weapons than we ever did yet they are more scared of being killed than ever because they are cowards that would never dream of doing what they do outside of uniform.

Many of them as little lovers of the NWO and they like the idea of violating you and your family.

Only when the SHTF and they are out numbered 1000 to 1, under the best of circumstances will they realize what they have gotten themselves into but it will be too late then.


[edit on 4/11/2009 by samhouston1886]

Eye for an Eye justice. Abuse of power should never be tolerated. Too bad they didn’t get the guy throwing the punches. Had that guy been beating the cop he would be facing felony charges. We should demand convictions with jail time every time an officer commits a crime! We are the ruling power, they are just servants.

I personally think the Anti Gun drive is for the benefit of one organization the Police

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.

* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."


[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by Hung Lo

 

The world is mess because the reactions by people get us into bigger than the original mess. Do we know what was going on in that pile? The officers obviously served and protected, they did there job, did they use excessive force possibly, but do we know what was happening in there? and if they were, the fans should have stopped, and attended to the injured man, but nope they kept fighting and became what they were fighting against. The circle continues until someone actually thinks before they act.

Do not become what you are fighting against, or you will become your worst enemy.

They did use excessive force..possibly??? OMG!!!!

They served and protected???

What can I say ?? I hope they do their jobs serving and protecting someday..with a billy club to your head,after your down and immobilized...and see how you feel about it.

Actually I think the circle may stop..if more cops realize they can't get away with this crap.

Unfortunately ..they got the wrong one.

lemme guess..you're a law enforcement agent of some kind....and that could never happen to you.

Originally posted by MrJelly
reply to post by Blundo

 

*Snip* SHEEP.

im all for the cops. USE tazers.. be rough. the masses are idiots. whats that dude running around like an idiot for? like a chicken with NO CLUE what he is doing. holding up the game.
"LOOK AT ME.. la la la la"

[url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread51374/pg1]Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.[/u




[edit on 4/11/2009 by semperfortis]

May you be on the receiving end of that wish someday.