We all go to hell

Just a quick question to people of all religious circles, barring buddhism and the like.

If I don't follow you're specific religion am I going to hell? I mean no matter what a good person I am, no matter what I do, I'm still going to hell?

So Ghandi went to hell because he wasn't a christain? I mean that seems a bit ridiculous that matter what you do, god doesn't see that, he only really cares if you worship him? *SNIP* I mean: Muslims there are some good christains out there, but since they don't follow Allah, they are gonna burn?? And Christains, there are alot of good muslims in this world, but because they dont think that jesus was really the son of god they gonna fry?

And the Dalai Lama is gonna burn in hell for sure coz he doesn't even believe in one god!!! What a sinner, he must be anti-christ! Seriously can't y'all see that religions just the oldest tool in pitting humans against one another? We all lose! No war has ever been started in the name of Satan now has it?

Religions played a big part in this from ancient times to modern scientology but how can you all go about hating each other simply coz they dont pray with you? And I know some of y'all will say I dont hate them, while secretly "knowing" you'll be safe up in heaven while they burn. But c'mon you ask for evidence in everything else in your life but you will blindly die for a fairy tale that used to burn people who said the Earth was round? And you'll shoot a white boy for wearing a cross?

*SNIP* I'm sure if god is real he doesn't give two #s about what you believe in as long as you're a decent person? and ofcourse haters will be MAN your only talking about the extremists and stuff that happened ages ago, but back then it wasn't ages ago, 9 years ago a president started a never ending because he said GOD told him too???? *SNIP* When People say god told me kill my neighbour, they lock the freak up!

Seriously just wake up.

*Mod Edit: Lets keep the language civil thanks. Cheers -alien



[edit on 4-4-2009 by alien]

A "decent" person though will change according to the religion, that's the thing. Some "religious" groups don't even believe in moral rules or laws. Some think that killing a person doesn't have an effect on anything, it's irrelevant. A lot of the spiritual systems don't believe in ethics or morals, so if someone was to live a "good" life and treated others "nicely" that would have no barring on their spirituality and would have to reincarnate.

I don't believe in Hell. A person living in the jungles somewhere who hasn't even heard of Christianity or Jesus isn't going to Hell, that's ridiculous. Geography shouldn't determine salvation. It is interesting, because if you're born in India, you will be a Hindu. If you are born in the US, you'll probably be a Christian. I don't think God would put you in a culture that is 90% of the wrong religion and just expect you to go against that culture and convert to the "right" religion.


[edit on 4-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Geography shouldn't determine salvation.

Thank you. Truer words were never spoken IMO.

reply to post by Aztec Riddle


Honestly, I dont give a *SNIP* about what people from religions think. I think all religions contain some truths but have been tainted by man. So I take what feels right and apply it where it fits for me. I think we are all born or equip w/ a inner guide if you will, and it is up to us to follow our own paths in what feels right to us. I truly see the point you are making.And if we rely on what religions say we have to do, we will all contradict ourselves. Take what ever feels right and run w/ it in a positive light. Peace!




[edit on 4-4-2009 by alien]

man, religion is *SNIP* we all need to try to find our own answers and beliefes ...

good luck in this thread, but I wouldnt be trying to find out what people that believes that 100 girls will be waiting for them when they die thinks ...



[edit on 4-4-2009 by alien]

The only reason religion was created was to control the masses.

reply to post by Aztec Riddle



Hello There AR,

Hope you are well.

To reply to your question first i need to say that i totally understand where you are coming from having been in the same place at a time of my life and second is that what i am saying is only what i believe and has no bearing on whether you believe it or not,there is no judgment.

Now,In regards to the "going to hell if you do not believe or follow"bit God says that to those who have not the opportunity to
hear that he will judge them on their hearts,that every person knows right from wrong and that if they have lived according to what they know is right then that will be accounted.

The next part and this i think is the most important is that our understanding of what God is and does in relation to mankind is skewed,I fully understand the view that religion is garbage and that men do things in the name of God that are the opposite of what we know should be done.Unfortunately this is true.

You know that even Jesus rebuked the religious of the day,called them a pit of vipers,(ouch),but he was right,now those men were supposed to be representing him and he called them tossers...

Why?,Because they acted pious and Holy but in their hearts they were wicked and prideful and they acted accordingly
which bought that wrath upon them.

Now,If we take God at his word and break it down we get some points,

1:That men because of pride choose to go their own way,this is a mans heart he follows it and it leads to death,look around at the world today and the things we do to each other are not pretty.

2:God said that to follow him (Not Church/religion/pope/etc) is life and blessing.to go your own way leads to death,here and in
physical death and that the default destination after death is hell,which is separation from him,forever.

3:God made a way for us to return to him by paying the price for our sinful hearts by sending Jesus in our place,he took the punishment that we should have had.

4:God never asked us to be good enough to meet his standards,we can't and if we try that is called religion,but God wants
relationship,to have as as his own,to show us his love and kindness and there is only one way to receive that and that is to
confess the sin of pride and wickedness in our heart and ask for forgiveness which he is quick to forgive by the way,he loves us.

5:God wants more than a bunch of robot followers,he didn't create us like that,he made us vibrant and alive and he is like that too but we don't know that till we meet him.
The work that God does is to change hearts as he did mine,to take it and make it into something new,He didn't ask me to change my clothes or the music that i like,He is changing my heart day by day.

As for the fear thing,I am not scared of God,of making a mistake and him punishing me,i am not afraid of him,i do what he asks me because i love him and he loves me,yes i will be chastised if i continue being a doofus,he does this because i can be a meat head and he wants the best for me so when i am out of line he pulls me back in again and if that takes a smack in the ear then so be it,he is a loving Father and thats what parents do for their children out of love.

I could type many more words and i am sure that their are many more questions but i will leave it at that now,Hope it helps

BV

Edit:Cause my typing skillz blow chunks



[edit on 4-4-2009 by BlackViolet]

[edit on 5-4-2009 by BlackViolet]

Thanks for the feedback I understand totally where everyones coming from, I think religion is a good idea on paper, but humans do have a way of turning everything into a profiteering expedition. I just don't get why humans never seem to practice what they preach. Always killing each other in the name of religion and peace? It just doesn't make any sense.

So, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I know I answer, I don't know the answer, but I just thought it would help to explain how it was explained to me so that you see why some Christians think you have to believe in Jesus.

If I could unfairly summarize your post to, if good people go to heaven if they believe in Jesus then why do you have to believe in Jesus? Why can't you just be good?

Well the problem is slight misconception. Good people don't go to Heaven. Only holy things go to heaven. Good and holy are two different things. Being good cannot get you into Heaven. It's Heaven after all. Just being 99% good isn't gonna get you in. You probably will never be holy even AFTER you die no matter how good you are.

We are not pure (according to the religion). No matter how good you think you are, you're not holy. You can never be "holy enough." It's not possible. It's a false concept. There is no such thing as 70% holy. Your good works cannot buy you into Heaven. There is no such thing as "more holy." You either are or you aren't. If you aren't you're always at 0% because 1% or 2% holy simply doesn't exist. You'd still be at 0% holy no matter what you did.

See, Heaven would be 100% perfection, not 99% perfection. So you can't just let people in that are mostly good. You have to have no theft all the time. No murder all the time. No impure thoughts all the time because if you didn't it wouldn't be Heaven. It would just be Earth all over again. It's just not something a human can do.

See, the punishment for sin is death, but only PERMANENT death. Not like they say on TV. If someone brings you back 10,000 years later, that's not death. Technically you never paid for your sins. The only way to do that is to stay dead. That's why Jesus had to be sacrificed. He couldn't just raise us up because then our sins wouldn't be paid. He had to die to pay for our sins so we could be brought back. When you die for someone else's sins it's a sacrifice and a different way to pay for sins.

See, one way to pay for a sin is animal sacrifice. Something that used to be common. You had to sacrifice an animal or more for EVERY sin. Why? It's because even animals aren't holy. They're just not a good enough sacrifice. And animals don't sin at all, but they're still not holy though. See, holy and good are different things.

Jesus was supposed to be holy. His father was God, had to live his entire life without sin, and had to come from a certain blood line. And virgin BIRTH, not just conception. Starting to see how hard it is to be holy now? That's why you or I would never make it no matter how "good" we are.

Since Jesus was holy his sacrifice was the ultimate sacrifice. He died for all sins past, present, and future. That's why we no longer have to do animal sacrifice. In fact doing so would be an insult now. It would be like saying Jesus wasn't enough.

That's why on judgement day we could be bought back. Our sins will have been paid and we won't have to stay dead FOREVER to pay for them. There's just one problem. WE'RE STILL NOT HOLY! That's right, even after you come back you're STILL NOT! See how hard this is lol?

That's why if you read the Bible very carefully, according to my beliefs, you'll find very very few people go to Heaven. Most people will be put on a new earth created by and ran by the few in Heaven. Even after being raised from the dead you still won't be holy and STILL won't make it to Heaven. A new Earth maybe, but not Heaven. Think you're good enough now? lol.

Now I don't know if that's true, but that's how I was told.

Read the book of Genesis chapters 1 to 3. I think it explains why we are here quite clearly with an answer to your question if you stop trying to see a tree and a big hand pointing telling people what to do or an apple etc

I am not one to quote bible passages etc but I can if you specifically want me too and give a breakdown.

If you read the first few parts of the bible you will see that god created man completely innocent with no knowledge of good and evil in the beginning.
He told man that they were allowed to eat of anything that bears a seed but not to eat from the tree of knowledge.

They ate from the tree of knowledge, god explains that they chose this and because of this they will take from the tree of life.

What does all of this mean?

It means that you have free will to choose and it has consequences.

It explains the purpose of life for man, a path of wisdom between good and evil because of the choice taken. At the end of all of this we will know the complete difference between good and evil in its entirety as a species.
Mankind chose this, not god.

It also shows that God is a man of his word as this was a punishment he carried out just as he warned, after man refused to listen and went ahead anyway seeking knowledge.

It explains why we live and die. It also explains why we are born of sin. Even someone who does not sin is still born into sin.

That is why further on in the book it tells you that Jesus died for your sins. He did that so that you should not suffer the wrath of god and that is why you hear about Jesus so much when someone is speaking about religion.

Think of it like this, how would you feel when you see truth and everyone calls you an idiot and refuses to believe you?

Imagine you are god that created man in his own image and man is ignoring you despite you trying everything without breaking free will. Frustrating? Annoying?

Does not do it justice does it??

"The weak shall inherit the earth"

reply to post by Aztec Riddle


Hell.

O.E. hel, helle "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions," from P.Gmc. *khaljo (cf. O.Fris. helle, O.N. hel, Ger. Hölle, Goth. halja "hell") "the underworld," lit. "concealed place," from PIE *kel- "to cover, conceal, save" (see cell). The Eng. word may be in part from O.N. Hel (from P.Gmc. *khalija "one who covers up or hides something"), in Norse mythology Loki's daughter, who rules over the evil dead in Niflheim, the lowest of all worlds (nifl "mist"), a death aspect of the three-fold goddess. Transfer of a pagan concept and word to a Christian idiom, used in the K.J.V. for O.T. Heb. Sheol, N.T. Gk. Hades, Gehenna. Used figuratively for "any bad experience" since at least 1374. As an expression of disgust, etc., first recorded 1678. Hell-bent is from 1835. Hell-raiser is from 1914 (to raise hell is from 1896); hellacious is 1930s college slang. Expression Hell in a handbasket is c.1941, perhaps a revision of earlier heaven in a handbasket (c.1913), with a sense of "easy passage" to whichever destination. Expression hell of a _____ is attested from 1776. Hell or high water is apparently a variation of between the devil and the deep blue sea. To wish someone would go to hell is in Shakespeare (1596). Snowball's chance in hell "no chance" is from 1931; till hell freezes over "never" is from 1919. To ride hell for leather is from 1889, originally with reference to riding on horseback. Hell on wheels is from 1843.

Gehenna is used for Hell. Perhaps this word is not recognized right away, though it is very similar. It should be recognizable through "Genesis" and "Generate".

Also notice, Hall and Cell...both from the same word (kel)...Hell.

Hell isn't what people think. It is dieing and not having a bloodline to continue on, meaning all the bad following your blood falls on you or "The blood is on your head".

"Are you able to drink from the cup I drink from"?

Listen to "Helter Skelter" and you will have figured it out.

Peace

Originally posted by tinfoilman
So, I'm not saying you're wrong or that I know I answer, I don't know the answer, but I just thought it would help to explain how it was explained to me so that you see why some Christians think you have to believe in Jesus.

If I could unfairly summarize your post to, if good people go to heaven if they believe in Jesus then why do you have to believe in Jesus? Why can't you just be good?

Well the problem is slight misconception. Good people don't go to Heaven. Only holy things go to heaven. Good and holy are two different things. Being good cannot get you into Heaven. It's Heaven after all. Just being 99% good isn't gonna get you in. You probably will never be holy even AFTER you die no matter how good you are.

You are totally right on Good and Holy. Good eye for detail
Let's add another one that shouldn't be confused. Righteousness.

Jesus himself said, "Why do you call me Good, NO ONE is Good but the father in heaven"

Here is what is the best part. Everyone believes in Jesus and they don't even know it, because Jesus means something more then a name. First the name is an Action not a Guy. Anyone performing this "action" is "Jesus".
His name is "Self Existent Salvation". His name is what you do, not what you call on. "Those who love me will DO what I say"....."Love one another, as I have loved you".

How has "Self Existent Salvation" loved you today?

Righteousness is good and bad.
It is just....Eye for and Eye, tooth for a tooth.

Good is Pleasure and Ease of mind.

Holy means a few things. Holy comes from "Healthy" from an etymology standpoint, so to Keep the Lord 'Holy", is to keep your health in proper order because, "the kingdom of heaven is inside of you".....The twinkle in your eye.

"All thing spoken against the Father will be forgiven, likewise, all things spoken against the son will be forgiven, but in sending away of the "HOLY" spirit, shall not be forgiven in this world or the next (10 generations)"

We can speak about imaginary things all day long, but if you send away the holy spirit "Hallowed inside of you" away by not giving it a place to live...i.e. a new generation, then your name is forgotten having no "Living God" to remember you.

Hell is not having children plain and simple, ask God he can tell you.

Peace

I think the leaders of religions have to say that, because if they say that a person just has to follow one rule (not to do to others what one doesn't want to be done to him), they would lose many of their herd.
And in past that was sometimes dangerous not only for the religion in question but for a state, cause countries weren't secular. So I think that belief in (mostly abrahamic) religions is artefact of old times.
And btw, people who can imagine other people burning on fire just because they are not in the same religion and don't share their beliefs are not all that smart or righteous.

It is true, though. Religion was created half out of hysteria, and half out of a need to control the masses. Go read up on the Renaissance and Middle Ages issues of about 1300 - 1650, where there was so much turmoil in English-speaking worlds because religion was constantly CHANGING.

Here's the thing. I think that God is whatever you make him out to be, and that whatever is what will greet you after death.

Have you heard of the idea of mass-belief-materialization? When many people put their beliefs in something, that something will come to pass. It is the basis of prayer rituals, healing circles and seances. When a person in these groups do not believe in healing, prayer or ghosts, the effect is broken.

Humans are the MOST powerful, and their minds have the greatest gifts. The combination of their beliefs probably brought GOD TO LIFE (yes, you heard me, Man created God, not the other way around) and all his angels, etc. way back in the Renaissance/Middle Ages, though REAL living figures who died, like Saints, may have been existing independently.

So what does this mean?

This means that there is more than one religion that is "right". Buddhists all believe. Christians all believe. Pagans all believe. God probably exists as a power that will salvage people in their time of need, because they will conjure his force in them. The Goddess probably exists as a power Pagans call to them in spells (which is the basis for spell-casting and magick in the first place, actually). In the ancient times, the Greek and Egyptian pantheons probably existed. So does Shiva and the other Gods of Hinduism now.

I really do think that there are many, MANY entities and gods (demons, devils, monsters too) living in the ethereal, conjured from the human mind, and the extent of their power and hold on humanity is entirely dependent on how much power YOU and the rest of the humans give THEM.

Tell me whatcha think of my theory.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
It means that you have free will to choose and it has consequences.

It explains why we live and die. It also explains why we are born of sin. Even someone who does not sin is still born into sin.

That is why further on in the book it tells you that Jesus died for your sins. He did that so that you should not suffer the wrath of god and that is why you hear about Jesus so much when someone is speaking about religion.

Think of it like this, how would you feel when you see truth and everyone calls you an idiot and refuses to believe you?

Imagine you are god that created man in his own image and man is ignoring you despite you trying everything without breaking free will. Frustrating? Annoying?

Does not do it justice does it??

"The weak shall inherit the earth"

1) Yes, I have free will. They are consequences for that free will, because I choose my destiny. I become good, bad, a blessing, a curse, powerful, weak, anything at all. I cause my own death, or cause others' death, or cause my own death because of others' deaths first. But I do not believe this "consequence" follows me to the afterlife. What happens in the afterlife is an ENTIRELY different topic.

2) Even someone who does not sin is still born into sin. Can I say that that sounds very familiar, and it's because it's the basis of Hamlet's nunnery speech to Ophelia, and one idea that I very much agree with. Not the 'sin' part, just the idea that an innocent person will ALWAYS be tainted by the environment he or she is born into.

3) I would LIKE to suffer the wrath of god, please. I do not know why people are SCARED of suffering. Sufferance is good. I'm not Christian but I've learned to believe that anytime anyone offers you something good without first suffering is not a good person. People are inherently comfort-wanting, they do not want to go through hardship, heat, poverty, etc. But ONLY through going through these problems can one rise above and be better.

4) So what am I saying? That Man's INHERENT nature is making them submissive. Their yearning for comfort and pleasure is rendering them weak, and susceptible to people who promised that Heaven is comfortable with all the blessings and beauties of life. Isn't THIS a sin? Greed, envy, lust, all stem from this inherent nature of wanting to be pleased and comforted.

So what is a sin? Based on my argument, which I really think holds some weight, Man's wish for God to save them is a sin right there. Man should worship God only if they truly believe in His power to save the WORLD, and not JUST THEMSELVES, FROM DAMNATION. It is this selfish, contrite, hypocritical notion of wanting to be saved first, before anyone else, that gives religion power and makes people submissive. It makes the idea of religion, in general, hypocritical and fallacious.

IMO, people should just do what they want, as long as it hurts no one. 'And it harm none, do what ye will'. The idea of sin really doesn't hold up when you look at Christianity from the viewpoint I just mentioned. Sin is really just human nature. And to deny human nature is really to deny everything you truly are.

And as for the REAL existence of these bodies (IN SPACE-TIME) which have been so commonly mentioned in religious texts... read my above reply.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by KarlG]

Originally posted by KarlG
I really do think that there are many, MANY entities and gods (demons, devils, monsters too) living in the ethereal, conjured from the human mind, and the extent of their power and hold on humanity is entirely dependent on how much power YOU and the rest of the humans give THEM.

Tell me whatcha think of my theory.

I've thought some very similar things and it seems like that very well could be true too. I think there might be some truth to causing things to pop into existence or at least cross into our world simply through brain power. It could be a possibility.

reply to post by Aztec Riddle


The primitive mind judges a person by their beliefs, culture, or heritage.
The superior mind judges a person by their actions, honesty, and integrity.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits".
Need I say more?

I read someplace years ago that the word hell was derived from the word sheol.If that is true then hell is nothing more than mankinds common grave.So I guess everyone is going there and I don't percieve that as being bad.All the fire and brimstone was thought up by religious leaders to scare people into thinking thier way.Kind of like the politicians use scare tactics today.

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by KarlG
I really do think that there are many, MANY entities and gods (demons, devils, monsters too) living in the ethereal, conjured from the human mind, and the extent of their power and hold on humanity is entirely dependent on how much power YOU and the rest of the humans give THEM.

Tell me whatcha think of my theory.

I've thought some very similar things and it seems like that very well could be true too. I think there might be some truth to causing things to pop into existence or at least cross into our world simply through brain power. It could be a possibility.

Tinfoil man I agree with your post ...I also agree with XXX post ......nice posts both of you ....star for you both

And to Karl I think your theory is right on the money ....
EDITED TO ADD >>.
At least I agree with the fact that there are many supposed gods ...or at least they have been given the title of god and even think that they are equal to God ...there is only ONE REAL GOD though .....and he specifies that Jesus is the only WAY to know him ...

I also agree that satan,demons,supposed gods etc ....only have as much power over you as you allow them to have ........


[edit on 9-4-2009 by Simplynoone]

We are not all going to hell. With the initial post in mind, here's how it's laid out: Are you John 3:16?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Whatever you call yourself, where you live, what you've done, if you believe in the above you're not going to Hell.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by saint4God]