Outcry over girl flogged by Taliban in Swat valley

reply to post by poet1b

Are you really claiming that the U.S. public or the UK public approves of rape?

Nope. However if I was to use your mentality, I would make that assertion. Example; you would spot that the US has one of the highest rates of reported peace time rapes on the planet then you would make the conclusions that all non-moderate American approve of rape and the moderates don't demonstrate about it.

Here is a link for reference;

www.sa.rochester.edu...

What have you done about the oppression of women and children in the US?

[edit on 083030p://pm3013 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by masonwatcher


Easy, rape is a crime in the U.S.. Any reported incidences of rape are investigated by the police, and when the perps are found, they are tried, and if convicted, sentenced to jail. To fight rape, jail sentences are being increased considerably, as it is being observed that rape is behavior that doesn't seem to change. See, the key is reported rapes. Women are encouraged to report rape, because the U.S. public sees rape as a serious crime, and wants to eliminate this type of crime. In most other countries, there is evidence that a great many rapes simply go unreported. If anything, we here in the States have gone too far, and made it so easy for a woman or girl to get a man convicted without evidence, that there is reason to believe a lot of innocent men are going to jail.

When women are punished for allowing themselves to be put into a situation where they could be raped, so effectively blaming women for allowing themselves to be raped, the reported incidences of rape are very low, of course, because women are not going to report rapes. This doesn't change the fact that rape is a horrible crime, and that men who commit this crime should be locked up.

The biggest difference is that we don't have groups here in the U.S. claiming that they have the right to go around raping women, where as in many Muslim nations, there are groups that claim they have the right to publicly beat a woman for allowing herself to be in a situation where a man could take sexual advantage of her. Are you capable of understanding the difference?

We don't have groups here in the U.S. who claim they have the right to murder girls for daring to go to school, and blowing up schools for daring to educate girls. The Taliban does both of these things, it punishes women for allowing themselves to be in a position where they could be raped, and the Taliban murders girls for daring to go to school.

If you support the Taliban, then you support the public flogging of girls who are placed in any situation where they could be raped, and the murder of girls who seek to get an education.

Knowing this, are you willing to take a moral stand and admit that the Taliban is a criminal group that needs to be stopped?

In addition, I never claimed that all non-moderate Muslims support rape, or the public flogging of girls who may have been raped. My statement is that religious extremist who support this are nutjobs, who should go to jail for carrying out such an offense. More importantly, the whole purpose of this thread is to point out the outrage of the people of Pakistan that this thing occurred. This demonstrates that the people of Pakistan, who are mainly Muslim, are willing to take a stand against this religious extremism. This is a step forward in wiping out religious extremism.

reply to post by poet1b

The biggest difference is that we don't have groups here in the U.S. claiming that they have the right to go around raping women, where as in many Muslim nations, there are groups that claim they have the right to publicly beat a woman for allowing herself to be in a situation where a man could take sexual advantage of her.

A fallacious argument.

1. The US leads the world in violent assaults, which include rape. Only South Africa has a higher incidence of rape per year.

2. Rapists in the US are obviously by mission of action, deluding themselves into thinking they have the right to rape women.
Otherwise why would they rape women if they didn't believe their actions were right or permissible in the first place?
Every rapist convinces himself of the legality of his actions. Whether he's Muslim or not.

3. The hardline, Fundamentalists aren't arguing they have the "right to rape" women. That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it.

They are arguing that in married relationships, women automatically consent to men during any sexual encounter and that "rape" cannot occur while they're married.

If you support the Taliban, then you support the public flogging of girls who are placed in any situation where they could be raped, and the murder of girls who seek to get an education.

Knowing this, are you willing to take a moral stand and admit that the Taliban is a criminal group that needs to be stopped?

Spare me the hysteria, no ones supporting the Taliban here.

People are simply arguing that these endemic abuses are not the result of "clearly defined" Islamic Laws that are actually put into practice in Pakistan via judicial process.

Rather, they are the results of Taliban imposing it's will on everyone in the Swat Valley (and other autonomous provinces where Pakistan doesn't have jurisdiction), whether they like it or not.

There's no judge and jury here. That's the difference.

More importantly, the whole purpose of this thread is to point out the outrage of the people of Pakistan that this thing occurred.

Contrary to this are your early comments on how Muslims "never speak out" against radicalism and are silent in their opposition to it, not to mention a clearly Islamophobic tone that is eminent in most of your threads.

From you:

We need more public outcry in the Muslim world against these types of barbaric attacks.

We need more people in the Muslim community speaking out against the oppression of women in the Muslim world.

Atheism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and the New Age religions are getting along well. It is only Islam that is having problems with everyone else.

Knowing very well your perceptions of Islam since me and you have come at odds with each other in countless threads relating to the Muslim world, it's kind of hard to take what you're saying here at face value.

[edit on 6/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Glad you cleared this up.

In the U.S. rape is a crime, punishable by lengthy sentences, while among the religious fanatics in the Middle East, rape is a right of the husband, and many rapists are considered to be holy men. Women are sold into sexual slavery through marriage at young ages, and this is considered to be moral.

I have never claimed that "Muslims "never speak out" " against extremism, only that we need more Muslims speaking out against Muslim extremism.

Don't you think we need more Muslims speaking out against Muslim extremism?

Essentially, because extremist have the power that they seem to possess in Muslim culture, Islam is at war with the rest of the world. This is a reality.
It is my opinion that most Muslims would like to end this conflict, and live in peace with the rest of the world, over come the religious barriers, and learn to become a part of the world's culture.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

2. Rapists in the US are obviously by mission of action, deluding themselves into thinking they have the right to rape women.
Otherwise why would they rape women if they didn't believe their actions were right or permissible in the first place?
Every rapist convinces himself of the legality of his actions. Whether he's Muslim or not.

Well US is 9th per capita, and Australia is 3rd with Canada 5th in the world, with most of Europe in the top 20. One needs to ask why are these 3 and Europe so high on the list and the answer is rape is reported and dealt with where in many of the countries low on the list it is never reported or dealt with, hell in some of these countries the women gets punished for enticing the man...

In America if you rape a woman you will go to jail, AND be tracked and labeled a sex offender the rest of your life. I can goggle where every sex offender lives for they must register with the police everyplace they live, and if they don’t they go back to jail. You can kill someone and get off easier….

Does this look like a country that thinks sex crimes are permissible? The problem is sex offenders are mostly incurable much like psychopaths in the majority are hard wired to think and act as they do, so controlling them is all that can be done. In other countries though, rape and other sex offensives are either buried or within the morals of the population of those countries.