"I Hate YOU!"

Pretty strong words from someone that doesn't even know you. These words tend to strike a blow to most people who read them and yet do they justify your feeling of anger towards me for using them? This statement appears to permeate the very core of the ATS forum from what I've read recently and this is my reason for creating this thread.

Through numerous reminders throughout the threads and whole threads dedicated to stopping the spread of hate, I find it necessary to say a few words on the subject.

****PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE OP BEFORE REPLYING - THIS IS NOT AN AVENUE TO VOICE YOUR RACISM OR HATRED TOWARDS A GROUP - I, AS WELL AS OTHERS WILL REPORT THOSE DOING SO****

Let me start off by first stating that my title "I Hate YOU!" is in no way my true feelings towards anyone. It would appear that certain titles within ATS can bring you the viewer by using certain words. The word 'hate' seems to be one of the words that leads to many clicking on the link to see what is being said and how they can get away with such speech on ATS. I take it as playing the game like the MSM, and using the 'Bi-line" or title to attract the masses to the info. In my previous thread it seemed to have worked the opposite. I used the word "Love" which probably had people stay away from it and seeing it as something from a 'wishy washy' writer who's writings wouldn't have any benefits to the reader. I guess we'll see if this works. Hopefully, those that do at least take the time to peruse my ramblings will also take the time to leave their two cents worth, or more.... but please do read the entire thread.

Recently, there has been much stated by the ATS staff about the apparent hate writing going on within the threads, I have really failed to see it. I do see that there are those that have various opinions that may be construed as hate but I do not see any clear indications of hatred going on. Is this a conspiracy? Possibly? Lets look at it.

First, a definition of hate;
- to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
- to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it

Synonyms:
loathe, execrate; despise. Hate, abhor, detest, abominate imply feeling intense dislike or aversion toward something. Hate, the simple and general word, suggests passionate dislike and a feeling of enmity: to hate autocracy. Abhor expresses a deep-rooted horror and a sense of repugnance or complete rejection: to abhor cruelty; Nature abhors a vacuum. Detest implies intense, even vehement, dislike and antipathy, besides a sense of disdain: to detest a combination of ignorance and arrogance. Abominate expresses a strong feeling of disgust and repulsion toward something thought of as unworthy, unlucky, or the like: to abominate treachery.

hatred...
- the feeling of one who hates; intense dislike or extreme aversion or hostility.

Synonyms:
animosity, detestation, loathing, abomination.

The above definitions are from Dictionary.com. I would include a definition of hate from the ATS boards perspective but they have yet to provide one, even though they've been asked numerous times for such definitions and examples. I can understand that this would not be possible on their behalf because to do so would have them using every possible form of english that can be used to intentionally insult and hurt the person who is viewing the thread or the intended victim, which is usually a group.

When someone clicks a link on ATS to follow a thread by title alone, the reader is usually given some idea as to what the story may be in reference to or what the viewer may find within the thread. A title like "North Korea threatens war against Japan over missile" may lead the reader to it because he sees that as a threat to the life of someone they know. The person just reading this title may have very angry feelings towards North Korea just from reading the title and not following the information which is vital to actually making any kind of justifiable thought let alone comment on the subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another may see the title "Teens Could Spend 25 Years in Prison for Allegedly Torturing Cat, Setting It on Fire" and have extreme hostility towards these teens and those that defend their actions. The viewer must actually read the article before making a judgment on the circumstances that the title appears to explain. While this title may be inexcusable to the most conscious viewer there seems to be something wrong in the way we perceive this hatred.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

To just touch on a point of this story, these teens did this act of cruelty to an animal during a break and enter. For their deed, they may spend 25 years within prison walls. If you read some of the comments that are provided within the thread you will see that there is much hatred for these teens because of their vile act. I personally find it disgusting and find myself hating their actions. Yet some have made statements that this is the beginning of their downfall and that they will be worse than Hitler in the very short term should they not be taken off the street. These are pretty strong statements and leave any accused of such a crime not capable of living within our society at any time in the future. That is quite the thinking from a group who I thought were more intellectual and more understanding, given the fact that they read about all the atrocities that our governments have led us to believe.

We have places around the world where things that may have happened to the cat are happening daily to our own brothers and sisters. Human beings are being tortured like this and we have some defending the actions of their government because these people are terrorists. All the while not one has been convicted in a court of law as a terrorist. We make it legal and part of the law to be able to crush a child's testicles to make the parent talk and some will defend this action, yet we have some that spout off their hatred for these teens and it is allowed. Does this make sense?

In a way it does. The fact is that most of the comments in the Cat thread did not use words that led to the viewer seeing hatred as the underlying theme. Some stated that maybe they should just light them up with charcoal and do the same thing. Others stated that 25 years wasn't enough. Others saw it as 'It was a cat' forget about it. Whatever your feeling, a creature lost its life by the intentional action of another creature.

Now lets take away the cat and instead put in the word Boy. I can only imagine the comments that would ensue should that be. Yet would it still be construed as hatred? Would it be right to say these people are espousing hatred? Given the definitions of hate and hatred above, I could honestly say that some of the comments are hatred. Replace the word cat/boy with American or Canadian and your into a whole new realm... Change it to the ethnicity of someone that lives near the Gaza conflict and you'd have troubles on your hands.

What I'm trying to show is that our use of words leads to whether your classified as someone who is promoting hatred. I for one find it abhorant and detest what these teens have done to that poor creature. Do I think they should be locked away? I really don't know because I only have the MSM to give the details and that has been shown to be embellished in the past. But did you notice my use of words? I 'detest' the actions of these teens and I find it 'abhorrent' what they did. These words are the definition of hate. Nowhere in my statement did I say that I hated these teens. I stated I hated their actions.


[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Continued...

This is the point of this thread. It would seem that many people misinterpret the words of many posts within ATS. I've seen comments that make it appear that some have made posts like:

I hate the Jewish....
I hate the government...
I hate the Americans..
I hate you....

These are OK comments in my books when you DON'T take them out of context. If you were to read a post and it had the sentence...

I hate it when Americans constantly try to have their policies override that of the NAFTA. Or I hate it when the Jewish bankers strong arm the rest of the countries and make our dollar worth squat. Or I hate it when you always use that derogatory term 'disinfo agent'. In any of these statements have I made a statement of HATE towards any person or group? No. I've made statements that I hate their actions. People can hate the actions of another and to show that they do, they will generally make statements like:

I despise the actions of the Jewish bankers.
I detest what the government is doing to us.
I detest the actions of the US military in Gitmo.

These statements are against the actions of a group, not the group themselves. When I read such comments, it doesn't lead me to feel any disdain toward a group in particular. I do not hate any American, Jewish or Government Official because of what I've read within the threads. I do see a strong vehement anger towards those that have led to the story, if true, much like it would be should I find out the cat story is true. I do not HATE these teens, because they are only human and this one act does not show what they are capable of in the future. If that were the case then I'm sure that a lot of people would be thought not possible to live in a civilized society. I know that we have indications that this may be a beginning to something bigger in their futures but I'm sure that if you really checked, you'd find that lots of people have something in their backgrounds that would be construed as 'uncivilized' and would then lead to us being segregated or put away for 25 years. In no way am I condoning what these teens did. I am merely showing that one instance in their lives has seemed to decide that they are unworthy of being called human. One simple act that may not have been thought of before hand. And then there's the fact that we are going by information from a source that has been known to sensationalize the story to enable the PTB to gain a foothold upon us.

So the above statements that I said are OK are really being taken out of context.. Some are seeing "I hate the Jewish" when they are really not reading the complete sentence... "I hate it when the Jewish bankers strong arm the rest of the countries and make our dollar worth squat." This is part of the human conditioning... we sometimes do not read the words correctly and will interpret them in a way that our mind sees fit. Depending on our feelings at the time, you may see it as an attack on a group.

In one thread, a member makes the analogy that to point out all the negative points of the Police Officer is likened to RACISM. Yet, through the thread you have people voicing opinions both for the actions of the police and against. Unfortunately, those that did not agree with the actions of the police officer were regarded as harsh criticisms and even at times labeled as hatred towards any law enforcement officer(LEO). Yet some will defend the actions of the LEO when he does not perform his duty to report the wrong doings of his co-worker. Is this hatred to dislike a group because they have shown that they protect their own when they themselves know it wrong? I don't hate police... I had the privilege of working with some of them in the military. Had some courses by some. What I do hate is the LEOs that are not following their own laws which they swore to uphold. I don't hate the person. I know that if these bad LEOs ever get fired and find another job that maybe they will be good to the community in another way that is to societies benefit.

I'm not saying that all LEOs are bad and neither are those that question the actions of the police in any thread that may be about police abuse. They are commenting on the only indications they have to go by within our society, the MSM. Our news lately has been inundated with stories of abuse by police and their crack down to prevent this from getting known to the public. If I was a gang member and had the privilege of having a law that prevented anyone from filming my breaking the law, this would bring many questions to those that would find out about it. Yet, we have those that defend this action and see it as OK within our societies. I for one believe that not all LEOs are corrupt. I also believe that you may find some LEOs that have made a statement showing their anger at this action. We know that the police do good, it's seen everyday by the fact that they patrol our streets and therefore deter crimes with their presence. But are we to ignore that which has been placed in front of us that shows that there is a need to monitor this certain percentage of 'bad' cops that have been shown to need this monitoring? Do we make it so that all LEOs are equal by making it so you cannot show proof of the bad cop because that is now illegal? What law are you as the citizen breaking when you film a police officer breaking the very law he swore to uphold and protect YOU the citizen from? This is the type of question that must be asked when you have people telling you that your words spout hatred toward the police.

I recently had a discussion with my son about some things I read on ATS. I started off with telling him about how the UK was finding that a large amount of Blacks were coming in from African countries and taking UK jobs. I then told him about how certain other countries were noting a similar trend and that they were being allowed to bypass certain rules because of their country of origin. I then told him of a thread that mentioned how certain groups were saying "Black Power" was on the rise. He looked at me and then asked if I had talked to anyone else about this and that I should watch what I had talked about. I told him that I was not saying anything that was not in the MSM. All the comments I used were from stories that had been printed, yet he warned me that my views could be construed as racist. This is just from citing quotes from the MSM. I had to explain that this was where I got it from and that it wasn't my view. I've never been racist and if I heard anyone that I knew personally spout such disgust I would let them know and probably not be that persons sounding board following that. I've found that anyone that spouts racist comments will usually not change their views but may change their language to continue with their 'friends'. I don't allow this myself.

This just goes to show that without reading the details and only listening to a persons short description of the facts, one can jump to the levels of racism or hatred very easily. After describing in full what the story talked about, my son then understood that his father had not turned racist overnight. Unfortunately, I haven't the ability to explain in detail on threads that my thoughts are not hatred. Much like those that are reading this, you haven't the ability to make another see your point if they don't want to, which then leads to those being called hate mongers.


[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Continued...


After stating all of the above, I am in no way saying that we have no 'haters' on ATS. What I am saying is that some people's use of the English language is not perfected, much like mine, and sometimes their message is conveyed in a bad light. You must read the post as an opinion towards the title that the poster has used to illicit attention. Therefore, when you see someone say they have a hatred towards a person, see it first as a hatred of the persons actions before the person's religion, race or position. I think that this may soften some of the blows that seem to be directed 'unintentionally' towards these groups, thereby lessening the amount of supposed 'Hate' speech on ATS...

I really don't think that there is much hate here...

but that's in my humble opinion...

Peace and Love to You All
ATT

Oh, I hate Indians.. not native americans, but Indians from India.

I can't help it... they just really tick me off.

maybe it's just the ones that have come to America that I hate. I hope. I guess we all have to hate somebody, right?

I apologize if this wasn't the intention of your post.

As one of the Smurfs said long time ago:

I hate to hate

I genuinely believe that most of the people who come here are NOT overwhelmed by hate, but rather curiosity, doubt and sense of wonder

reply to post by dragonking76


Thank you for proving that some on ATS fail to read the thread before replying...

Failure on human skills also...

Rgds

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by dragonking76

 

Thank you for proving that some on ATS fail to read the thread before replying...

Failure on human skills also...

Rgds

You're welcome!

2nd line.

reply to post by dragonking76


Dude, so does my mom, and I argue with her every day about it.
I see her reasons (the food they cook, and how they are to us Americans, and how they procreate alot here in the US), but damn it - I'm sure they have reasons to dislike us. Maybe they're just reacting to how we are to them?
As far as the cooking smell, well maybe our Hamburgers and Hot-dogs smell bad to them?
And as far as them coming here and procreating the way they do? I tell my mom this:
If you were living in a country that had nothing, basically - had no resources and wanted a better life, wouldn't you go to the so called Promised Land?? That's what this country is - (not the promised land, hehe) the Melting Pot.

I can SEE why people would be racist, but I do not like it or agree or condone it one bit. We have different cultures, different races and nationalities. We need to just throw the BS away and get along and band together.
Until ET's come down from the sky, all we have is eachother.
And besides, when you are racist towards a group, yeah, there may be a few (or more) people that make a bad name, but that bad name should not be stamped on the entire race! That's not fair! Sorry!
Racism is a friggin cycle. When the hell will it end??!
Ok.. I HATE RACISM!! There ya go! I said it.
Now I say this:
Peace.

reply to post by impaired


I am not saying all Indians(not native americans) are like this but in my experience:

They tend to have this "niceness," but you can see their hatred for Americans beneath the surface. They just give me the creeps, and tick me off too with this "I am better than you" attitude.

It's not about the color of their skin, but their attitude toward Americans. Like I said, I think it's more Indians(not native americans) in America than the Indians who are in India kind of thing.

Sorry to hijack a thread, I guess I'm just to scared to start my own

reply to dragonking76

No need to apologize for hijacking the thread... You've shown what I was trying to convey...

You talk about your experiences and how they've created your thinking about a whole race. Based on how many people would you say that you know personally that are of this race? How many of these people that you don't seem to have a problem with the color of their skin have you noticed that have some bad attitude towards you as an American? Are we talking in the hundreds or maybe thousands? Your experiences are a pittance when compared to those that others see in a normal light... No need to respond thanks...

reply to impaired

The fact that you validate your racism because of the smell of someones cooking or the fact that they procreate, like you, as a human being shows me that you don't look at a person as a person and look at them as a collection of stereotypical thoughts. Thanks for the insight as to your thinking...

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


based on...

The guy who slept with my sister, then said his wife had to be hindu...

The 5 hotel guys who acted like what I described, this "better than you" attitude.

The one hotel guy, and his co-workers who were celebrating in front of the television when 9-11 happened and I was checking into a hotel room.

Fake... I'm not completely sure what flakey means, but I think it applies. They don't see other americans as human beings kind of thing. It scares the heck out of me.

Maybe it's just the sister thing... but I think it is more than that. How many Indians(not native americans) have YOU met to say they are OK????

ATT, your OP was a sensational display of literarily dynamic showmanship. Bravo, much to consider in the words of your post. The title certainly caught my attention, apparently accomplishing what was intended with other readers, as well.

I do wonder, if, for example, by making the statement that I hate your actions, am I somehow ever-so-gently infusing an implication that the "you" of said statement is indeed worthy of my hatred, as well, since (by default?) "you" are capable of generating such a feeling of hatred in the first place?

Perhaps you could expound your view on this philosophical pondering regarding the potential existence of a suppression which may possibly -- though one should hope unlikely -- be found hidden within the narrative . . .

reply to post by OptionToChoose


Hi OTC

As I stated, the title of the post was only used to attract the attention that you've proven works. My commentary should be sufficient to show that I in no way hate any person or group and that those that only read a small percentage of the available post or the title only could and usually will arrive at an incorrect conclusion as to the purpose.

There may be those that use a title for the intent of making a 'Hate' statement, but most often you will find that within the thread the original intent may have been to call into question certain actions, thereby not making a general statement that should be construed as hatred towards whoever is in the title characters position.

Rgds


[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to impaired

The fact that you validate your racism because of the smell of someones cooking or the fact that they procreate, like you, as a human being shows me that you don't look at a person as a person and look at them as a collection of stereotypical thoughts. Thanks for the insight as to your thinking...

You're joking, right?
These things I said were as per my mother's thoughts and beliefs and I used her as an example.
I was making observations. If you read what I typed, there was no me being judgemental (if there was, I did NOT mean it in a bad way, honest!).
For you to say *I* am racist is utterly hysterical! I'm not even offended (because I am not racist), I just think it's too funny that you turned it around 180 degrees on me. That's priceless... And it's in black and white, now, hehe...
If I was racist, I wouldn't lie right now. I wouldn't even have posted what I posted.
Come on, man. Wake up and smell the coffee. You're not racist???

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


We can laugh about it first.

Believe this, Ozzy Ozborne's lead guitar player, Zak Wlyde, is into the Allman Brothers and produced an album featuring this song "Hate Your Guts"

www.youtube.com...

In order to heal we must laugh, this song does just that.

reply to post by impaired


Joking?

You used a story of how your mother feels about certain people because of the smells of cooking etc... and then

I can SEE why people would be racist, but I do not like it or agree or condone it one bit.

Like I stated in the OP, peoples use of the english language is far from being a great gauge of their intent... Maybe you have a command over the language and your capitalized SEE was a meaning that I as well as others should pick up on? I look at this as you condoning the action of your mother's as well as others based on these stereotypical ideas.

Just my feelings from your post and I could be wrong...

Rgds

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


Well, perhaps I didn't say it right (I wouldn't be surprised). I am also tired as hell...
But yeah, I can see why you would think that by what I typed. I really didn't mean it like that.
Listen I am not going to lie, here. I don't like the food smell, but I don't hold it against them, or anyone who cooks food that my nose doesn't like.

Someone could say something I don't like. Doesn't mean I hate them, dude. I just don't like what the person is saying.

Same thing with music. Just because I don't like a genre or two, doesn't mean I hate or dislike music in general.

Is what I am saying making sense? I gotta go to sleep, because I can't even tell right now.

Take care.

Edit to add: Oh, and no, I absolutely do not condone my mother's views... We fight all the time. We just fought over it this afternoon.

[edit on 4/4/2009 by impaired]

You did not hurt my feelings. I thought you were my Ex wife.

I hate you, don't leave me.....

My hope is everyone to see that some may appear to be labeled as one of those above, but in their mind they don't see themselves as one and yet they may use the words that convey the message they do. Therefore the person that may be able to convey these feelings in a normal face-to-face conversation will clearly show you that they are not racist. Yet when in the written word, it is defined differently from the mind to the fingers. The writing is usually not the same as the person's normal talk. Therefore you can not judge a person and call him a hate speecher by a mere post or three.

Rgds



[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

[edit on 4-4-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


If you're not being sarcastic, then cool. No problemo. Glad to have been able to contribute to something.

If you are, then... Umm... You might as well put a kick-me sign on my back!