The Jack-o'-lantern

I wanted to start this thread on the Jack-o'-lantern basically to tell of my experience with this phenomenon. I'm a Folklorist and studied this phenomenon while I was studying at the IU Folklore Institute in the early 1990s. I graduated in May of '94 and my then wife and I went camping the weekend after I graduated. We went to a small State Park outside of Bloomington Indiana and camped in the primative area. We pitched a tent and built a camp fire and just began to lounge around cooking and talking. Neither of us was drinking or doing any drugs, just good old-fashioned rest and relaxation. Just after sunset some other graduates moved into a campsight that appeared to be about 100 meters off from ours, sort of up a hill and in the woods. We could see their fire, it was rather large and they were rather noisy because they were partying pretty hard. As the evening wore on, our neighbors began to loose steam and about midnight they were all passed out and we were back to the pitched silence of the park. My ex-wife and I spent the earlier part of the evening talking and watching shooting stars, satellites, the planets and the stars. It was a very memorable evening.

A little after midnight I stood up and went to the edge of our campsight to take a whizz. While whizzing, I looked up the hillside at the neighboring campsight and had noticed that their campfire had died down considerably. The fire was just barely visable and was illuminating the surrounding canopy of trees. It was a very low level of illumination and was just slowly undulating in the distance. It was at this time that I saw the Jack-o'-lantern. I clearly could see the figure of a headless person hunched over holding a lantern and swinging it to and fro. This person would lunge forward, swinging the lantern and then retreat, all in a very mechanical motion. I watched it lunging and retreating while swinging the lantern for about 2-3 minutes, I was absolutely transfixed on the mechanical nature of this movement. It appeared as if it were looking for something on the ground in a frenzied type of movement. Because it had no head and because of the nature of it's seemingly impossible movement, I knew that what I was seeing was positively not human.

I called my wife over and just asked here to look up at the neighboring campsight and tell me what she saw. I gave her absolutely no clue as to what I was seeing and I was not in any way emotional or frightened in the least. She walked over and looked up at the neighboring campfire and gasped. She said that she was seeing a headless person hunched over moving back and forth while swinging a lantern. I then asked her which hand the lantern appeared to be in and she said she could clearly see it in the left hand, but I was seeing it in the right hand. We also marked the lunging motions of this thing by marking (calling out) when it would lunge forward. These too did not match up. We were both seeing different patterns of movement which were asynchronous to one another. Although we were both seeing roughly the same thing, the closer we compared what we were seeing, the more obvious it became that we were having completely different experiences. A few minutes later the fire died down and the figure dissapeared for good.

We returned to our campfire and were both agast at what had just happened. Even though we both were fully aware of that fact that what we had both seen was the product of rather extensive illusory phenomena, we still felt spooked. I was, and still am, so thoroughly and completely impressed with the complexity of these illusory sensations. It was, by far, the most impressive thing that I have ever seen in my life. The next morning, after our neighbors had left, we set out to explore their campsight in the daylight. The campsight at night appeared to be only 100 meters away, in the daylight it was more like 250 meters away. The fire pit was still smoldering when we arrived, they had built a rather large campfire, perhaps two or three times the size of ours, which would explain why we thought it was closer than what it really was. The surrounding canopy that we had seen illuminated by their fire was actually a much larger area than what we had perceived the evening before, which may help to explain why the movements of this figure seemed to be so rapid.

I had spent the previous five years of my life studying both the Jack-o'-lantern legends and visual-perceptual illusions viewed at night. I had been to a variety of places where local legends tell of these headless figures sporting a swinging lantern, but was unable to see anything. Why had I seen one while I was not looking for it? That made me really mad, I'd gone to train tunnels, covered bridges and haunted hills and had seen absolutely nothing! My present summation is that when I had gone out to see these things my skeptical expectations had precluded me from truly experiencing the enhanced perceptual illusions which do occur under a finite set of visual parameters. My disbelief had blinded me.

Some years earlier, I had done a series of interviews with a person who had claimed to be in contact with aliens. Yes, I know, a rather spectacular claim, but I felt that there was a lot to learn from this individual, for many reasons. I personally knew this individual from grade school through High school and can attest to the fact that he was just a normal farmboy, that is, until the aliens contacted him. In one interview I asked him if I could go with him to meet these aliens and he told me that I would not be able to see these aliens unless I believed in them. I did not fully understand what he meant by that until I had seen my first Jack-o'-lantern. Skepticism can blind a person from seeing enhanced and rather extensive and complex visual-perceptual illusions at night. Perhaps, because I had just graduated, I didn't feel the need to be as objective as I had been all of those years chasing these will-o'-the-wisps. I remember the exact moment before I sighted my first Jack-o'-lantern I thought that it would be nice just to see one, and then I did. The will to see these phenomena is just as important as believing that one can see these phenomena. Without both of these psychological constructs it is impossible to see a Jack-o'-lantern.

Please, I would love to hear of any similar experiences.

It happens when least expected and both search for and skepticism of various phenomena acts as a block to perception. I`ll confirm that from lots of direct experience of various things from ghosts to UFOs.

Thanks for sharing an interesting tale.

reply to post by Rotwang17


I have 'seen' ghosts four times thus far in my life. What was interesting about it for me is that while I was 'seeing' these appartions, and saw them in the context of the physical environment I was in, I insitinctively understood that they were... projections is my head I guess is the best way to put it. They were there... but they were there because they were projecting into my mind and/or I was tuned into the frequency they were projecting on.

Only one time was I with other people when this happened, a dinner party at my house of all places. I saw a man across the room, he just appeared, he was totally benign watched us for a moment and was gone. I was startled and blurted out - "I just saw a ghost! Right over there!" My dinner companions stopped for a moment, annoyed I had interrupted for convo, and then went back to it ignoring me. I left it at that.

Years later the woman who was sitting next to me that night, and had the same line of sight I did, said to me "I saw him too"... I did not understand what she was referencing, she went on "the ghost that night at dinner, I saw him too". I had not said it was a man I had seen, and asked her to describe him. She said he looked like Tyrone Power -- which he did, kind of slight, brunette, dressed in 40's attire -- it was then that I remembered that his daughter had occupied the house I lived in, not too long before me. So to my mind, it may well have been him, popping in as it were to check in on her... who knows?

Anyway, I digress. The point I set out to make was that to me it makes sense that you and your wife were seeing the same thing differently as it happens 'in our heads' like a projection, not something we create but focused energy, or intent that manifests and if you have the right frequency on your dial you 'see' it...

TWISI

Re: TheWayISeeIt

Thanks, as you may be aware, the Jack-o'-lantern is considered by many today to be a "ghost." During the 19th Century it was perhaps the most popular ghost legend to be documented by folklorists. Before the 19th Century they were considered by many to be fairies from a different realm. The reason I became so intrested in studying these Jack-o'-lanterns was because of my friend, I mentioned above, who was in contact with aliens. These aliens did not communicate with him orally, nor did their voices speak in his head, rather, he told me that these aliens appeared over his farm at night in UFOs which looked just like ordinary stars. He would look at the UFO (star) and would ask it a yes or no question, if the answer to his question was no, then the UFO (star) would swing in a left and right motion. If Yes, an up and down motion. He was not alone when he was in contact with this UFO (star,) another friend of mine was with him. He also acknowledged that this was how they were able to communicate, visa-via yes and no questions.

During an interview my friend told me that these aliens knew all of his thoughts and as he was telling me this he placed his index finger directly on the center of his forehead and said, "Jeff, it's as if these aliens are right here." It's interesting to know that in the Dutch tradition, the Jack-o'-lantern also was called a dwaalster or a wandering star. I also found many stories in the Scandinavian tradition where individuals were able to communicate with the dead via ordinary stars in a like manner. The last interview I held with my friend (my interviews with him streched over a five year period) he had become convinced that these UFO (stars) were not aliens at all, but that they were angels. He has since become a devout christian.



[edit on 4-4-2009 by Rotwang17]

reply to post by Rotwang17


Interesting. Did he, or anyone else, ever film it? The moving star/light? If not, why? And did the angels tell him to convert to Christianity, or was he already Christian and assumed they were divine and by dint of divinity Christian?

As to the Jack o Lantern, I knew nothing about it. I have never even thought about it being anything other than decoration. I think it is fascinating though. Is it usually, or exclusively, seen around campfires? If you have some links to data about the phenomenon, put them up. I would like to read all about it.


I notice that you are newish to the site, so I will share with you somethings it took me while to figure out. If you already know it I am begging your pardon in advance. My wisdom: if you want to excerpt from material and link to it you simply use brackets and ex for 'external source' it should look like this:

You can also put links to the material up by clicking on the Globe Icon above, it will give you two boxes. In the first you can write LINK or whatever you want, hit enter and then put the URL in the second box.

CLICK on the 'QUOTE' BUTTON IN THIS POST AND YOU WILL SEE THE CODE FOR 'external cource'.

RE: TheWayISeeIt

OK, I'll try to get all of this in here. First, I don't remember asking my friend, Billy, if he had ever tried to video these UFO (stars,) I don't really think that he believed that the movement of these things were an objective reality. I think that he understood it more as a means of communication, so he really would not have attempted something like that.

Next, mainly, the focus of all of my interviews were on what these UFO (stars) were communicating to him. Wow, I really need to write a book on this part, but he had literally hundreds of communications with these UFO (stars.) These events totally transformed this individual. He was not a practicing Christian until several years into these communications. He said that eventually that these UFO (stars) revealed themselves to him as angels. That is when he began going to church. But I feel compelled to explain the context of his experiences as they unfolded in our local community.

As I stated above he was not alone when he first began to communicate with these UFO (stars) another friend of mine (Scott) was also with him for the most part throughout the first year of his communications. They both began to tell others in our local community (a rural farming community in southern Indiana ~ 1000 inhabitants) about these events. Well, I guess you can imagine the response, indeed, they thought these two were going nuts. They were activally chastised by the locals and I was warned not to have anything to do with them. At the time I was studying as an undergrad at the IU Folklore Institute in Bloomington. I really wasn't concerned with the local's interpretations of what was going on. The warnings I recieved concerned Billy's alleged drug addictions and extreme drinking habits. This, for the most part, was untrue but was later aggrivated when he and his friend had a falling out. When this happened I interviewed Scott and asked him what happened. Scott then recanted all of the stories that he had previously told me and openly denied ever having seen what Billy had seen. He told me that Billy had "brain washed" him with drugs. I knew that this was a load of crap, but this was what he was telling everyone else in the town what had happened.

Well, as you may imagine, this drove Billy into isolation in this small farming community. This town has 11 churches in it which is about one for every 90 inhabitants. I feel that eventually, Billy was beaten down by the locals and that the only place that he could find refuge was in the Church. This occured at about the same time that he began calling these UFO (stars) Angels. I don't really believe that these UFO (stars) revealed themselves to him as angels until after he began going to church. Billy, today, is a very sucessful farmer and owns some rather large tracts of farmland. He is rather wealthy and has been able to re-intrigrate himself into the local town's life and the only way he was able to do this was through the church.

Now, on to the Jack-o'-lantern, which is also known as a Will-o'-the-wisp. If you check out the Wiki reference, you will see the section Other Names and there I have a link to a biblographic survey I did on the names of The Ignis Erraticus. During the Second World War the Jack-o'-lantern tale resurfaced as what became known as a Foo Fighter, here is a research paper I wrote; A Historical and Physiological Perspective of the Foo Fighters of World War Two. I was also registered at ATS under the username Rotwang but my e-mail changed in a buyout of Insight Communications and I lost my pass so I had to re-register. Here is a link to an older post I put up here at ATS Foo Fighters of WWII - Repost. As you may summise, there is a rather large tradition behind the Jack-o'-lantern, I have only scratched the surface.

Hope you enjoy.

Click here for more information.

RE: chapter29

Prove me wrong then...

reply to post by Rotwang17

Prove me wrong...

Throwing down the gauntlet, huh..?



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8dea80ec7edc.gif[/atsimg]



There is now way to prove that I am right...just as you have no evidence that your 'experience' took place.


We are in Logic Limbo...






o.k. nevermind...you saw it - congrats.

RE: chapter29

How can anyone prove a subjective experience? These types of subjective experiences have been studied in psychological laboratory experiments since 1857. It is perhaps one of the most frequently studied illusions in psychology known as Autokinesis.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by Rotwang17]

RE: chapter29
Here are just a few references to the study of the Autokinetic illusion as well as other visual illusions which occur at night...


Byford, G.H.1963."Eye Movements and the Optogyral Illusion."Aerospace Medicine.February:119-123.
Clark, B., Graybiel, A. and MacCorquodale, K.16 May 1945."The Illusory Perception of Movement Caused by Angular Acceleration and by Centrifugal Force During Flight.II.Visually Perceived Motion and Displacement of a Fixed Target during Turns." Report No.#8. U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3). Reprinted inJournal of Experimental Psychology. 1948.38:298-309.
Clark, B., Graybiel, A.and MacCorquodale, K.1 July 1946."TheIllusory Perception of Movement Caused by Angular Acceleration and byCentrifugal Force During Flight.III.Habituation and technique ofassuming the turn as factors in illusory perception." Report No.#11.U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Clark, B., Graybiel, A.and MacCorquodale, K.4 Sept. 1946."TheIllusory Perception of Movement Caused by Angular Acceleration and by Centrifugal Force During Flight.IV.Illusory rotation of a target during turns." Report No.#16. U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine,Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Clark, Brant and Graybiel, Ashton.1949."Apparent Rotation of aFixed Target Associated with Linear Acceleration in Flight."AmericanJournal of Ophthalmology. 32:549-557. Reprinted from U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.# 19.27 Sept.1947.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Clark, Brant and Nicholson, Marjorie. 1954."Aviator's Vertigo: ACause of Pilot Error in Naval Aviation Students." Journal of AviationMedicine.April:171-179. Reprinted from U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.#37.12 Aug.1953.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Clark, Brant and Graybiel, Ashton. 1957."Vertigo as a Cause ofPilot Error in Jet Aircraft." Journal of Aviation Medicine.Oct:469-478.Reprinted from U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.#44.15 Aug.1956.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Clark, Brant and Graybiel, Ashton.1963. "ContributingFactors in the Perception of the Oculogravic Illusion." AmericanJournal of Psychology.76:18-27.
Clark, B., Nicholson, M. A. and Graybiel, A.1953."Fascination:A Cause of Pilot Error." Journal of Aviation Medicine.Oct.;429-440.Reprinted from U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.#35.15 May1953.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, Aston and Clark, Brant.29 April 1944."A PreliminaryReport on Studies Dealing with the Autokinetic Illusion." Report No.# 1,U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, A., Clark, B. and McNeal, B.F.,20 Sept. 1944."The Effects of Various Arrangements of Lights in Reducing Autokinesis."Report No.# 2, U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, Ashtonand Clark, Brant.1945."The Autokinetic Illusion and its Significance in Night Flying." Journal of Aviation Medicine.June:111-151.Reprinted from U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine,Report No.#3. 7 Feb.1945.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, Ashton and Hupp, Dorothy.1946."The Oculo-Gyral Illusion: A form of apparent motion which may be observed followingstimulation of the semicircular canals." Journal of Aviation Medicine.February:3-27. Reprinted from U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine,Report No.#4. 1 Nov.1945.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, A., Clark, B., MacCorquodale, K. and Hupp, D.14 Jan.1946."The Role of Vestibular Nystagmus in the Visual Perception of a Moving Target in the Dark." Report No.# 5, U.S.Naval School of AviationMedicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, A., Clark, B.and MacCorquodale, K. Mar.1946."TheIllusory Perception of Movement Caused by Angular Acceleration and byCentrifugal Force During Flight.I.Methodology and Preliminary Results.Report No.#6. U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project(X-148-Av-4-3). Reprinted in Journal of Experimental Psychology.1947.37:170-177.Graybiel, Ashton.1952."Oculogravic Illusion." A.M.A.Archives ofOphthalmology.48:605-615. Reprinted from U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.#27. 29 Dec.1952.Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Graybiel, A. and Clark, B."Validity of the Oculogravic Illusionas a Specific Indicator of Otolith Function.' Aerospace Medicine.December:1173-1181.
Imus, Henry A., Graybiel, Ashton., Brown Robert H., and Niven, Jorma I. 1951."Visual Illusions in Night Flying." American Journal ofOphthalmology. 34:35-41.
MacCurdy, John T.1934."Disorientation and Vertigo, with Specialreference to Aviation." British Journal of Psychology.25:42-54.
MacCorquodale, K. 13 July 1946."The Effects of AngularAcceleration and Centrifugal Force on Non-visual Space Orientation DuringFlight.I.Methodology and preliminary results." Report No.# 14U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).Reprinted in Journal of Aviation Medicine.1948.19:146-157.
MacCorquodale, K., Graybiel, A.and Clark, B.22 July 1946."The Effects of Angular Acceleration and Centrifugal Force on Non-visual Space Orientation During Flight. II.Influence of habituation andtechnique of assuming the turn." Report No.# 15U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
Miller, E.F.and Graybiel, A.1963."Rotary Autokinesis and Displacement of the Visual Horizon Associated with Head (Body) Position." Aerospace Medicine. October:915-919.
Pitts, Donald G.1967."Visual Illusions and Aircraft Accidents." Technical Report #28 SAM TR 67-28; 150/TR-67-28.Randolf AFB.
Schafer, George E.1951."Sensory Illusions of Flying." Journal of Aviation Medicine.22:207-211.
Vinacke, Edgar.1946."Types of Illusions in Flying." AmericanPsychologist.1:282.
-----.8 May 1946."The Concept of Aviator's 'Vertigo.'" Report No.#7.U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).Reprinted in Journal of Aviation Medicine. 1948. 19:158-190.
-----.21 June 1946."Predicting the Susceptibility of Aviatorsto 'Vertigo.'" Report No.# 10.U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
-----.3 July 1946."'Vertigo' as Experienced by Naval Aviators."Report No.# 12.U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).
-----.8 July 1946."'Fascination' in Flight."Report No.# 13U.S.Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Project (X-148-Av-4-3).Reprinted in Hawaiian Academic Science. 1948. 19:158-170.
-----.1947."Illusions Experienced by Aircraft Pilots While Flying." Journal of Aviation Medicine. 18:308-325.Reprinted from U.S. Naval School of Aviation Medicine, Report No.#9. 31 May 1947. Project(X-148-Av-4-3).
-----.1948."Aviator's Vertigo." Journal of Aviation Medicine.19:158-170.
Warren, Bruce H., Roman, James A., and Graybiel, Ashton.1964 "Exclusion of Angular Accelerations as the Principal Cause of Visual Illusions During parabolic Flight Maneuvers." Aerospace Medicine. March:228-232.
IV.Autokinesis and other sensations of apparent motion.
Adams, Henry Foster.1912."The Autokinetic Sensations."Psychological Monographs.15:1-44.
Brandt, Thomas and Daroff, Robert, B.1979."The MultisensoryPsysiological and Pathological Vertigo Syndromes." Annals of Neurology.Vol. 7, No.3:195-203.
Brosgole, Leonard and Cristal, Robert M.1967."Vertically InducedAutokinesis." Psychonomic Science.Vol.7, No.10:337-338.
Carr, Harvey A.1910."Studies from the Psychological Laboratory of the University of Chicago: The Autokinetic Sensation." Psychological Review.17:42-75.
Cautela, Joseph and Vitro, Francis.1964."The Effects of Instruction on the Autokinetic Effect." The Journal of Psychology.58:85-88.
Comalli, Peter E.Jr., Werner, Heinz and Wapner, Seymour.1957."Studies in Physiognomic Perception: III.Effect of Directional Dynamicsand Meaning-Induced Sets on Autokinetic Motions." The Journal of Psychology.43:289-299.
Conklin, J.E.1957."The Influence of Figural Inspection on theAutokinetic Illusion." American Journal of Psychology.70:395-402.
Edwards, Ward.1954."Autokinetic Movement of Very Large Stimuli."Journal of Experimental Psychology.Vol.48, No.6:493-495.
-----.1954."Two and Three Dimensional Autokinetic Movement as afunction of Size and Brightness of Stimuli." Journal of Experimental Psychology. Vol.48, No. 5:391-398.
-----.1959."Information and Autokinetic Movement." Journal of Experimental Psychology.Vol.57, No.2:89-90.
Ferree, C.E. 1908."The Streaming Phenomenon." Journal of American Psychology.19:484-503.
Gould, George M.1903."A Hitherto Undescribed Visual Phenomenon."Science.18:536-537.*
Gregory, R.L. and Zangwill, O.I. year? "The Origin of theAutokinetic Effect." Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology.?252-261.
Grosvenor, Theodore.1959."Eye Movements and the AutokineticIllusion." Archives of American Academy of Optometry.36:78-87.
Guilford, J.P., and Dallenbach, Karl M.1928."The Study of theAutokinetic Sensation." American Journal of Psychology.40:83-91.*
Guilford, J.P.(Year ?, perhaps 1938,1927 or 1928?) "Autokinesisand the Streaming Phenomenon." American Journal of Psychology.40:401-417.
Hastorf, Albert, H.1950."The Influence of Suggestion on theRelationship Between Stimulus Size and Perceived Distance." The Journal of Psychology." 29:195-217.
Hastorf, Albert H.and Way, Kendall S.1952."Apparent Size Withand Without Distance Cues." Journal of General Psychology. 47:181-188.
Leibowitz,H.W., Shupert, C.L., Post, R.B.and Dichgans, J.1983."Autokinetic Drifts and Gaze Deviation." Perception and Psychophysics.Vol.33, No.5:455-459.
Leibowitz, H.W., Shupert, C.L., Post, R.B.and Dichgans, J.1983."Expectation and Autokinesis." Perception and Psychophysics.Vol 34,No.2:131-134.
Levy, John.1971."Autokinetic Illusion." Psychological Bulletin1972.Vol.18, No.6:457-474.
Luchins, Abraham S.1954."The Relation of Size of Light toAutokinetic Effect." Journal of Psychology.38:439-452.
-----.1954."The Autokinetic Effect in Central and PeripheralVision." Journal of General Psychology.50:39-44.
Matin, L.and MacKinnon, G.E.1964."Autokinetic Movement: Selective Manipulation of Directional Components by Image Stabilization."Science.143:147-148.
Mednick, Sarnoff, A., Harwood, Alan and Wertheim, Jack.1957."Perception of Disturbing and Neutral Words Through the Autokinetic WordTechnique." Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology. 55:267-268.
Miller, Arnold, Werner, Heinz and Wapner, Seymour.1958."Studies in Physiognomic Perception: V.Effect of Ascending andDescending Gliding Tones on Autokinetic Motion." The Journal of Psychology.46:101-105.
Peterson, Joseph.1917. "Some Striking Illusions of Movement of a Single Light on Mountains." American Journal of Psychology.28:476-485.
Post, R.B., Leibowitz, H.W. and Shupert, C.L.1982. "Autokinesisand Peripheral stimuli: Implications for Fixational Stability."Perception.11:477-482.
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Royce, J.R., Carran, A.B., Aftanas, M., Lehman, R.S., Blumenthal,A.1965."The Autokinetic Phenomenon: A Critical Review." PsychologicalBulletin 1966. Vol.65, No.4:243-260.
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Vaught, Glen M. and Hunter, William.1967."Autokinetic WordWriting (AWT) and Field-Dependence." Psychonomic Science.Vol.7, No.10:335-336.
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reply to post by Rotwang17


Rot...

Calm down...first, it takes more than copying and pasting to establish a valid point...


Second, I'm sure that observations of this occurred far prior to 1857.


Give me something man...something other than 'personal experience'...I understand that you may not have prepared for an event such as this - but these type of claims require the goods.

Good to see your real motives -- Thanks

reply to post by chapter29


Why do you have to be so rude? If you don't believe the op and have nothing to contribute to this thread, why bother posting? People don't come here to read rude posts, they come here to read posts such as the op's.

I found the post to be quite interesting. It's true that unless you've experienced something yourself, people have a hard time believing.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by virraszto]

Thanks virraszto,

The above types of experiences really do frustrate people, especially if they have no basis of comparison. Unfortunately, most people have to have an anomalous personal experience of this nature before they will begin to accept that reality isn't as simple as they wish it were. I have interviewed many persons who have had similar types of experiences and quite a few really regret having the experiences. The Jack-o'-lantern also has gone by the names ignis fatuus a fool's fire and the ignis erraticus an erratic fire. These two names mirror the impact of the experiences on society, that of disbelief, a fool's fire and a visually descriptive coinage, erratic fire.

Don't worry about the detractors my friend, they annoy us all.

I saw a Bigfoot one night. I was alone and can't prove it, but I know it was real. I don't care if anyone believes me or not. I tell my story and let the chips fall where they may.

You saw a Jack-o-lantern. I can't say you didn't cause i wasn't there.

By sharing our stories, no matter how incredible they may seem, we could all finally come to some conclusion on the mysteries of this world.

We darn sure won't solve the mysteries by keeping the stories locked up inside.

Thanks for sharing the story.

Love and light,

wupy

RE: mrwupy

Would you care to give more details about your sighting? I have spoken to two individuals whom I worked with that encountered "Bigfoots" in the Bloomington Indiana area. One was at a place called Big Tunnel, in Tunnelton Indiana and the other was outside of Bedford Indiana. The sighting in Tunnelton was an albino Bigfoot, which has also been sighted near Trogdon Lane just north of Bedford. It's been named the Trogdon Lane monster and while I was in Big Tunnel (a 3/4 mile long train tunnel) I found a spray painted depiction of this albino Bigfoot that was about 10 feet in hight. It was rather impressive, it has been since painted over with other graffiti. Sightings of this nature seem to be rather common here.

Thanks