Why can't N. Korea Launch?

I know I will catch flak from a lot of posters for asking this question. I do not agree with why and how N. Korea operates. I also do not know why they can't launch a satelite carrying missile, if other countries such as USA, UK, Russia, China, and Japan etc. can. I know it will be argued that the resulting research of such a satelite could inform N.K. of potential ways to harm other countries, and they may infact have that intention. Could it not be argued that all the satelite launches from all the other countries could've contained at least one satelite that would do this same type of research. Thus allowing the beneficial country to develop advanced weapons systems to use in strike and counter strikes. My point is that if they are under such scrutiny for launching this missile into space then maybe every launch of every country and private institutes should come under as muh scrutiny. This would at least let the people of the world (who fund these projects with their tax payments at every corner) know what they are paying for and the intentions of the launches, universally.

Mods; can you move this to the "skunk works" or other proper forum, I wasn't sure where to post it. Thanks

[edit on 2-4-2009 by esteay812]

The US already acknowledged that N.Korea is *probably* launching a satellite.

The reason why Japan is saber rattling so loudly is a bit of a mystery, they may have legitimate concerns as per to an missile going over their country, which has happened before, but there are other issues affecting Japan in a negative way and the Japanese government probably sees this as an welcome distraction.

The economies of surrounding Asian countries are suffering as well, and the people's anger is best directed somewhere else, the governments would like to think.

Interesting that at one anti N.Korean protest in Seoul (I think) only about 100 people showed up, and that isn't much.

The simple explanation: Pay to play.

If NK wants have the same luxuries as many other developed nations on the global stage have, they have to play by our (USA, EU, Japan, etc) rules, no exceptions.

Of course, as it seems the OP believes, any country should be able to have a satellite, if they so choose. But that is in an ideal world. Unfortunately, our world isn't that black and white. Kim Jong-Il is a tyrannical oppressor, to say the least. He and his government constantly threaten other nations, and they deserve to be punished, at least for their crimes against their own people. Limiting NK's technology is how other nations have decided to go about punishing them.

On the other hand, it could be a satellite or it could be a bomb. NK's track record and the mere possibility of what could be in the payload of that missle in no way justify pre-emption. That tactic didn't pan out so well in Iraq, did it?

Not that I am an expert on East Asian geopolitics, but now, hopefully, you can see how it is a very complicated situation.

For the same reason israel can illegally obtain obtain nukes but will go to war to prevent Iran from doing so.

Too much we can and you can't. One thing people will always hate is hypocrites.

reply to post by PH43DRUS


I understand why many throughout the world consider Kim Jong-Il as a tyrant. However the people of their country nearly worship him. What they believe in general seems to be manipulated to a point. With that being said it can also be argued that the US is just as manipulative. (See the videos of schools children singing praises to Obama, Also see where children sing the Anthem to a 4foot tall picture of Obama, this is a form of manipulation, being that children couldn't possibly know enough about politics to stand and sing praises to a man that has been in office for a very short time.) All in all, no matter the size of the country or the amount of disposable funds at their hands it should not be allowed that any single government or multiple governments should be allowed to block the supposed progression of any country without the same exact standards being applied.

Originally posted by breakingdradles
For the same reason israel can illegally obtain obtain nukes but will go to war to prevent Iran from doing so.

Too much we can and you can't. One thing people will always hate is hypocrites.

It is not called being a "Hypocrite", it is called "Survival". You have to secure your own existence, and that means maintaining your position above any and all possible foes. If you do not like it, or do not understand it, then thank God you are not a National Leader.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by breakingdradles
For the same reason israel can illegally obtain obtain nukes but will go to war to prevent Iran from doing so.

Too much we can and you can't. One thing people will always hate is hypocrites.

It is not called being a "Hypocrite", it is called "Survival". You have to secure your own existence, and that means maintaining your position above any and all possible foes. If you do not like it, or do not understand it, then thank God you are not a National Leader.

So then it's only ok for israel to "survive" but not the Arabs?

Umm... last I checked that's still being a hypocrite sherlock.

reply to post by esteay812


I have to question if their worship is sincere or not. I doubt it is because he is a great leader, but more that if they don't support him they will be sent to a prison camp and or executed. Their worship for him is to secure their own day to day survival more than anything, IMO.

The simple facts are that this guy imprisons his own people for dissent, executes his own people, and lets his own people starve to death. Why should he be allowed to have the technology he wants? Why should South Korea, Japan, and the many other peaceful nations in the region have to be constantly worried about whether or not this loose cannon is going to snap and murder hundreds, thousands, or millions more innocent people? It is a travesty that one person can ruin the lives of so many others. Sorry to make such a cliche quote, from a comic for that matter, but with great power comes great responsibility. The technology that this guy wants to develop will give him great power, greater than what he already wields. Has he really proven to you that he is a responsible leader?

I agree with your points about manipulation. But you must remember that you and I are given a choice about where we get our information about the world. We are free to research multiple sources and make our own conclusions about the state of affairs throughout the world. We can freely choose which leaders we want to support. If you don't like your kids praising Obama in school, then you can take them out and homeschool them. That is a choice that you have. The people and North Korea probably are not as fortunate as you and I in this regard.

You say that no one country should be allowed to block the supposed progression of any other country. But, again, I say, our world is not that simple. Stalin killed 25 million of his own country men when he came to power. I proffer that if you asked him, he would say that it was for the progress of his own country. That does not legitimize him murdering 25 million people though. What about Pol Pot and the killing fields of Cambodia. Would you let him have a long range missle that could carry a nuclear payload too?

reply to post by breakingdradles


breaking - what's your deal with Israel? You keep finding ways to interject Israel into threads that have nothing to do with Israel.

This is about North Korea.

If you don't know the difference between North Korea and Israel, break out an atlas.

Jeez

It's a very capitalistic idea, really. Everyone does the best for himself, and it simply isn't in anybody's interest for NK to have that missile. There is little NK can give back to offset that.

On the other hand, I never understood how sanctions were supposed to punish dictators. KJI is still gonna eat his lobster dinner and drink the finest wine. It's his people that suffer. You make millions starve so what, you can hurt KJI's ego?

I remember Kim golfed a perfect game, 18 holes in ones.

I don’t think some one that golfed a perfect game should have ballistic missiles and nukes.

Its not about the satellite its about the missile and nukes.

reply to post by PH43DRUS


I agree with most of your points. However I believe the reasoning be hind not allowing the opportunity for an entire nation to advance because of one person is not the way any place in the world should operate. With this said it would seem that I would have Kim Il ousted from power and, if the people of that country wanted that I would agree, but that is also not for people outside their nation to decide. It just furthers my point that if we are going to be critical of one thing we should be critical of all things that could cause harm to people of all world countries (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th w.c.), ours and theirs.

I also agree with you that we are allowed to make our own decisions. But the decision we make, especially on a mass scale (such as electing public officials), is heavily manipulated by many mainstream media sources. Distractions are created to obscure a clear sight of reality, to pacify the public, and to manipulate the choices we ultimately make.

Even the seriousness and truth of situations that happen all over the world, even in our own home countries, is exagerated or with held(?) depending on the desired outcome in which the elite power wishes to have.

I just think that if transparency was promised we the people should demand nothing less, including equal rights for all and the suppresion of deciet delt by our leaders and members of the media conglomorates(?).

Also it is one thing for a country to try and put a satelite into orbit and another for a truly tyranical sociopath to kill millions of people.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by esteay812]

Originally posted by esteay812
With this said it would seem that I would have Kim Il ousted from power and, if the people of that country wanted that I would agree, but that is also not for people outside their nation to decide.

So who is to decide ? Certainly not the people of DPRK. It's a Stalinist Dictatorship.

reply to post by Schaden


I am only saying that, if the people of N.K.wanted him out, we and everyone should help them in achieving that. If they don't want that and they are happy with what they have we shouldn't be trying to dictate to them what type of government or leader they want. We, or anyone else, shouldn't be holding them back from technological advancement.

It would be like another military coming into the U.S. and shutting down research at Edwards Air Force Base or Oak Ridge National Laboratories (both of which have incredibly secret research happening), while at the same time telling us our president is horrible and he must be impeached or resign. We may not like how the country is run, but they may not like how our country is run. Believe me, the people in N.K. love their leader, more-so than nearly any other country. They are worshiping this man and he does exploit them, but we have no reason to tell them it is wrong just because we do it different.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that no country should be stopped from making advancements in technology as long as strict requirements of disclosure and proper procedure are followed. In fact, if it would be at all possible it would probably be good for every country to collaborate in science to achieve advancements faster. In order for this to work all information, from all participating parties, must be common knowledge. It isn't, so we all have to be very defensive.

The halt of the launch should not be allowed as long as all involved know exactly what is taking place. This is probably where the problem is. KJI doesn't want to disclose, hence the confrontation.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by esteay812]