Smokers feeling abused as federal tax hike hits

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I am a non-consistent smoker and I agree that smokers shouldn't have rights.

I mean why should people care about people polluting clean air for everyone else?

Oh we should care about their rights? Ok let's start caring about having over 300 different poisons in Cigarettes instead of the tax hike.

How about we care about their health more than their addictions?

How's that sound?

Care to give up your vehicle which pollutes the air thousands of times more than cigarette smoke could ever dream?

Yeah, didn't think so.

[edit on 4/1/2009 by Griff]

Many of us would love to drive vehicles that didn't pollute, unfortunately Bush didn't much care about that. Obama's a strong supporter of clean car technology and he's already pushing for it.

As for cigarette tax, it's not high enough in my opinion. Already I've seen some of the comments in this thread indicating that they're thinking of quitting smoking because of the tax hike, that's a sign that it could work. I think the higher the tax goes the more likely people will decide to quit buying them.

Originally posted by John Matrix
People don't smoke. Cigarettes smoke. People are just the suckers on the end of them.

Tax them to death and give non smokers a huge tax break.

Are you kidding? If all smokers quit tomorrow, they would them make us all pay TAX FOR CLEAN AIR.
Ooops .....forgot about the carbon credits and fresh air tax that's on the way to compensate for the loss of tax from smokers quitting.

It just looks like one last huge TAX GRAB from smokers.
We'll all be paying tax for AIR period.
( no point in saying Clean Air, it won't be until everyone quits driving. )

This should be of concern.......

I always wandered were the money trail will end up, this is a Rep. from Missouri explaining it.

One thing that bugged me about this SCHIP law is not only taxing the working poor thru cigarette tax, but if you make 50,000 or more, you will qualify for it.



So, it takes a working stiff who gets paid 20,000 to 30,000 a year, paying for SCHIP recipients who's making 50,000 or more then me, so the whole family(not for the children anymore is it) could be covered under an INSURANCE Plan(SCHIP).

Why Don't they just raise the Income limit on Welfare, makes sense.

Or is this another insurance scam.

A little quote from the OP of the Video.............

The Governors call to insure 20,000 additional children under SCHIP called for the State to spend $23.6 million of tax payer funded General Revenue in the Supplemental budget, then maintain the expansion through use of one stimulus money in the 2010 budget, leaving the tax payers to pay for the continuing burden beyond when the one time stimulus money is exhausted or force reductions in coverage, future deficits or potential tax increases—or all three. Budget Chair Allen Icet has pointed out that the supplemental budget cannot expand programming in this way according to Missouri Constitutional limitations. As Bentley points out below, SB 539 required families on SCHIP beginning in September of 2005 to pay premiums if their household income is 150% of Federal Poverty Level (FPL) or above. The gubernatorial plan would seem to contradict Missouri law based on both Constitutional and statutory grounds. Those that falsely claim we have cut SCHIP and childrens health care coverage in the last four years are simply misinformed and/or are misrepresenting the facts. We have actually expanded SCHIP and other forms of childrens health care coverage, such as presumptive eligibility through FQHCs, during the last 4 years. Missouri Children can qualify for SCHIP up to 300% of FPL, which is $66,150 for a household of 4 and $77,370 for a household of 5. To eliminate premium payments for children whose parent(s) earn between 150% of FPL ($33,075 for unit of 4) and 225% of FPL ($49,613 for unit of 4) and reduce premiums to $50 for households earning between 225% and 300% of FPL does not add 20,000 children to SCHIP. It simply gives an additional 20,000 plus children free health insurance like those who currently receive free coverage below 150% of FPL. It is a shell game. This is welfare expansion into the middle class and those with upper class incomes at the expense of Missouris most vulnerable. The right approach to SCHIP is not to spend 23.6m of tax payer funded GR to give free coverage to children whose parents already willingly pay for it. The right approach is to expand eligibility awareness, enrollment and re-verification and retention. Our focus should be on the most vulnerable Missourians—from at risk children to vulnerable seniors to those with physical and developmental disabilities—not children in higher income ranges whose parent(s) can clearly afford and willingly pay a premium offset for their childrens health insurance.

reply to post by Leto


Just wanted to chime in and report that I have kicked the habit! I'm not just thinking about it anymore, I did it! This last tax aimed at the smokers did it for me. They will not glean anything else off of me.

Although I do still support a person's right to do so. Happy puffing for all those who continue to do so. It is the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. But... I'm just that stingy.

The moral ambiguities of this new tax throws my philosophical state of mind into loops. So, to work through it, I came up with some advertising campaigns that I'd like to see now that it's in effect. Take a look:

I see daily the long term effects of smoking. We struggle to save those ravaged by the worst addiction on this planet. Radiation, chemo, surgery. High prices paid for trying to survive another year or 2. Maybe. Best success rate for stopping the tobacco addiction is 10 - 20 %. Taxes have made some difference, but meaningful numbers quitting due to this are low. The tobacco farmers receive financial support from Uncle Sam, thus allowing for saving billions paid out via Social Security. Hard to be empathetic regarding cigarette smokers, given the fact that they drain vast resources for treatment of cigarette related diseases.

reply to post by tiso_us


No it's not an insurance scam. It's a way to open the door for national health care.

They allow those making more than enough to pay for health insurance to now receive their insurance from the state. In this economy a little help looks good to most, a little extra in their pockets for bills, or maybe even luxuries. They figure i'll just do it until the economy gets better. You heard him, he said families that can afford to pay for their health insurance are now dropping it to accept a handout from the tax payers.

What these people don't understand is the fact that as this becomes more and more widespread the insurance companies will go under from lack of clients, then we will no longer have the option of private health insurance, we'll all be forced to accept national health insurance then.

Then they'll really hit us, they will raise everybody's taxes to pay for it (not just the smokers) and then people will start finding out just what they really bought into. So go ahead all of you who approve of this and applaud it, let them tax us all into quitting (it'll be better for us in the lond run anyway), but just remember in the long run it will be you who pays even more than us, and you're the ones asking for it

There is a VERY simple way to avaiod the new tax increase - STOP SMOKING. When the tax hike hits beer, wine and alcohol (which it will) persons like me who enjoy having a few beers now and then will have to make a decision just like smokers need to do now.

reply to post by chise61


one problem to this theory....
the insurance companies will be the ones getting this money, at least that's how it worked in NY, blue cross/blue shield was one of the carriers for this. so, it's more like saying, not enough people are paying the extortion rates to the insurance companies, so we have to take from you guys, and give it to the companies for these people!!!

you know the economy is screwed up when you can't even boycott an industry....they government will just come and take your money for them anyways....
kind of like the cars made in the company, not enough people wanted them either, so well, they are just coming to take our money....and we don't even get the car now!!

well
im sorry I like my smokes just like every other person likes there vice
I understand the deadly effects...yet choose to continue with my habbit.
I know the economy is in the tanker and things are going up
But I dont believe one word from the governent about this
I mean did we the people vote on this law and for where the profits will go?
More importantly if in a few years we find out that this money doesnt all wind up going to where and what its supposed to go and do will it matter?
Lets tax a vice...and addiction...that we chemically make more adictive...and use the profits
I guess.....whatever
I wont quit till I want....or until it winds up costing me 10 dollars a pack
Its about 4.40 where im at after I switched brands
and people are sayin pot is gunna be legalized>
ciggarettes will be illegal in another 10 years at this rate of taxation
alcohols next in my county too
now I cant wait for the tax on taxing

Originally posted by Snap
Not smart? Exactly what age do you think people start smoking at? Right, when they are kids. You don't decide to just start smoking when you are 20 or 30... try 12 or 13. By the time you know better it is too late.

Guess what? In at least one case (mine) you are incorrect. I started smoking at 33... stopped at 38. Things happen.

I thought it was ridiculous at my local super store when I saw that a carton of NEWPORTS....NEWPORTS was close to $50.00!!! Aren't those supposed to be some of the cheapest cigarettes?

I started smoking at 19, not 12 or 13.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by HarlieQuinn]

can relate to ya...i started around 16
old enough to know what I was getting yself into and be concious of my decisions without peer pressure
part of me does get mad that I support such a large corporation of bs...but pretty much anything mainstream is gettin to that point as it is

ya gotta wonder when the tobacco black market is gonna start though

Originally posted by Akoostikreikiya gotta wonder when the tobacco black market is gonna start though

Whether intentional or not, I would imagine that the black market is getting ready to shift into very high gear.

Heck, why bother trying to smuggle drugs across international borders when you can have cigarette factories moving stuff out the back door right here at home? The local, street-corner dealers are going to have smokes on their menu real soon, if not already.

reply to post by chise61


As suggested by another member on the forum, I have ordered the ecig.

My approach is this: The method of nicotine delivery is a bit different than gum or the patch. The strengths can be varied, just as gum and patch.

I will be treating it myself along the lines of a "smoking cessation technique", and as such will be essentially be billing the tax takers for my efforts.

As I have not tried the method of delivery, yet, I can not speak to the effectiveness of the delivery system. However, I have tried the gum... couldn't walk and chew at the same time (:lol, and the patch increased my urges to the point that my cig usage went up, while using it...I have a 1/2 package sitting in a drawer.

I just have to love the "system" and thought of this method to beat it, and when I get ready, perhaps, the addiction.

I wish you, as well as, my other brothers and sisters, good luck in your endeavors.

Originally posted by pyrytyes
reply to post by chise61

 

As suggested by another member on the forum, I have ordered the ecig.

My approach is this: The method of nicotine delivery is a bit different than gum or the patch. The strengths can be varied, just as gum and patch.

I will be treating it myself along the lines of a "smoking cessation technique", and as such will be essentially be billing the tax takers for my efforts.

As I have not tried the method of delivery, yet, I can not speak to the effectiveness of the delivery system. However, I have tried the gum... couldn't walk and chew at the same time (:lol

, and the patch increased my urges to the point that my cig usage went up, while using it...I have a 1/2 package sitting in a drawer.

I just have to love the "system" and thought of this method to beat it, and when I get ready, perhaps, the addiction.

I wish you, as well as, my other brothers and sisters, good luck in your endeavors.

I bought an electric cigarette and it arrived three days ago. I went from being 1 1/2 pack a day smoker, to only one real cigarette today (in less then three days)..

To get a carton's worth it costs about 12.50 in refillable flavored nicotine liquid.

Trust me, I feel better already. I am not coughing when I wake up anymore.

I've smoked for 10 plus years, 1-1/2 packs a day of marlboro mediums, marlboro 27, and camel filters, and I recommend it to any smoker.

Oh and you need to act now, and get stocked, word is the FDA is going to try and ban it.

www.e-cigarette-forum.com...

I ordered my starter kit here (along with a usb charger, and extra blank cartridges, and atomizers from this site)-

www.totallywicked-eliquid.com...

I ordered the juice from here:

store.vapor4life.com...

Got it in less then four days from both sites, no taxes, I am setting my own nicotine level and slowly decreasing it. It takes a bit to get used to it, but after a few days, regular cigarettes taste bad.

So the positives: I have no cravings. I smoke where I want (the clerks at USPS asked me to demonstrate it in a Post Office, imagine that), I don't smell, I can breath better, I will save money over the long run (about 1500 in a year+) and nicotine by itself is extremely less dangerous then cigarettes.

All smokers, please give it a try, This is coming from a hardcore 10 year plus smoker. Oh yeah, and the flavors surely make it more enjoyable. I am smoking Coca Cola flavored.



[edit on 25-4-2009 by squidboy]

reply to post by Akoostikreiki


The black market has already started.
A few days ago a man was selling cigs for 10.00 a carton where I live.

I pretty much stopped smoking and started my Copenhagen habit again. A can is about 4.50 cents here while cigs are 5.75. Copenhagen just lowered the price when the law hit so the price pretty much stayed the same.

A chew lasts me about an hour or two depending on circumstances and I can get my fix at the poker tables at my local casinos. I suggest everyone try it.

I still keep a pack for when I enjoy an ice cold brew though. My current pack is on its third week.

edit to add- a chew has the same nicotine as 5 cigs. For me a can has about 6 chews in it, thats the equivalent of 30 cigs. So not only is it cheaper but you are getting the equivalent of a pack and a half for about half the price you would pay for 30 cigs.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by jd140]

A few days ago a man was selling cigs for 10.00 a carton where I live.

reply to post by MagicaRose


That's crazy man. Sign of the times...that's for sure.

I'm trying my hardest to quit smoking now....spending 6 dollars for a pack of smokes is insane.

If you smoke a carton a week...that's 240 dollars a month!!

It's hasn't been easy trying to quit....but I'm keeping at it.

reply to post by David9176


Someone smoking a carton a week is a little crazy to begin with. The tax hike should be the least of that persons worries.