How canada learned to *re* love tracked tanks

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

The Canadian Forces are also deploying tracked M113 armored personnel carriers, which offer much less complete protection but similar mobility benefits

The Panjwai district’s mud-brick compounds and its irrigation ditches, however, presented the LAV-IIIs with limits they could not easily overcome – and would have done the same for the LAV-III/Stryker MGS systems, had Canada gone ahead with that purchase.

Canadian sources tell DID that in addition to direct fire support from the Leopard C2s’ 105mm gun, the tanks’ heft and traction are equally significant because they can crumble low-lying brick walls by using front-mounted engineering attachments like dozer blades – or just their own weight.

and thats it really - where wheels get stuck the tracks keep moving , which is why canada are renewing the M113`s and not buying new strikers.

Finally, something that IED's won't totally mangle. I love tracked armored vehicles.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by ShadeWolf]

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
Finally, something that IED's won't totally mangle. I love tracked armored vehicles.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by ShadeWolf]

Uh, IEDs mangle M113s and sometimes even full tanks just fine. They're flat-bottomed vehicles with fairly thin armor underneath. Most purpose built wheeled vehicles do BETTER against bombs planted under the road, because they'll typically have a V shaped hull to deflect the blast.

They'll do well against bombs planted off the side of the road, but anything underneath them is a death sentence. The nice thing is, with tracks, they don't necessarily have to go on the roads.

being byist im for the tracked apc, im an old 432 tankie an my eyes still swell from the noise of that RRoyce multy fueled engine, and the smell of the battery box located next to the driver all those little acid burn s ahh the memorys also if your a bloody good driver you can spin those baby s round like nobodys business, a little more armoure and IED/EOD defence systems and id quite happy drive around iraq/afghanistan. just my 2 bobs worth

To penetrate a tank with an IED, wouldnt you just need a shape charge?

Im ignorant to the mechanics of an IED, but could you not use a large copper plate with a charge behind it in order to devastate a tank?

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I remember hearing of an assassination attempt on.... someone using a copper plate and some high explosives to form a copper spear to penetrate said armored vehicle (although it was only an armored limousine - which has nothing on a tank)


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ied/eod is a bomb, they can take out an abram or warrior or snatch landie
just a matter of how much ,..the warrior apc that was taken out in iraq was blown up using 3 land mines stacked on top of each other from what i heard, two females killed outright the crew bably mangled.
IED- improvised explosive device- home made
EOD-explosive ordanance device - manufacterd
also those land mines are probaly old cold war stock designed to take out
challanger/leapord/abram, and ask the french 2REP they used alot of those hesh design warheads, HESH- high explosive sqause head, if me old alchohol dependant head serves me right. lmao,....

[edit on 4-4-2009 by foxhoundone]

i do believe though the point is - tracks roll on where wheels fear to tread , all the pictures of stuck strikers are likely the reason canada - and others want to refurb the tracked apc`s rather than buy new wheeled ones.

battleworthy as oppose to roadworthy springs to mind on this, think of all the surplus armour lying in war reserve depots, the british army up graded there old cold war 432s, new cat power plant and mordern steering system, (no more tillers) lol, redesignated them bulldogs, havnt got any feed back from any tracked drivers yet and would like to hear from any bulldog drivers what their like.. servicing them would be time consuming, fuel and running costs would go out the roof, but what the hell there go any where machines with a lot more protection, did manage to drown my old 432 (o8ea63) at salisbury plain one time buts thats another story lmao

Originally posted by foxhoundone
ied/eod is a bomb, they can take out an abram or warrior or snatch landie
just a matter of how much ,..the warrior apc that was taken out in iraq was blown up using 3 land mines stacked on top of each other from what i heard, two females killed outright the crew bably mangled.
IED- improvised explosive device- home made
EOD-explosive ordanance device - manufacterd
also those land mines are probaly old cold war stock designed to take out
challanger/leapord/abram, and ask the french 2REP they used alot of those hesh design warheads, HESH- high explosive sqause head, if me old alchohol dependant head serves me right. lmao,....

[edit on 4-4-2009 by foxhoundone]

The Warrior you mentioned hit an IED not mines...The explosion was that large it completely destroyed the Warrior beyond recognition, ripping one of the sides from the vehicle blowing it at least 25m away. The entire crew were instantly killed.

thanks for the info skunk, im ex mob so my heart goes out to the guys and girls out there, hope yous get the reconition and respect well deserved from the govt by keeping open govt jobs and social housing and the like for service to our country under the soldiers covenant,

[edit on 5-4-2009 by foxhoundone]

is it true that m113s are made of aluminium, so make them more air portable, after the falklands campain when 3 plus aluminium frigates were sunk, they scrapped any prodution of aluminium boats,,.
thought steel armoured plating was best for these battlefield taxies

[edit on 5-4-2009 by foxhoundone]

reply to post by Harlequin


Wonderful example of design trade offs. Wouldn't it be great to know a) what their actual values and trade offs are in making these kind of purchase decisions, and b) know who supplies the preferences, e.g. politicians, military, civil service, or combinations.

Great post.

Originally posted by foxhoundoneIs it true that m113s are made of aluminium, so make them more air portable?

Yes, the "Gavins" are made out of Aluminium. And they did so to indeed make them droppable.

After the falklands campain when 3 plus aluminium frigates were sunk, they scrapped any prodution of aluminium boats.

Which is foolish due to the fact that modern western ships dont have armor at all on the steel made ships... So nothing realy has changed.

thought steel armoured plating was best for these battlefield taxies [edit on 5-4-2009 by foxhoundone]

One word: RPG.

The RPG-2 and 7 were designed to take out vehicles with steel in mind.

Aluminium is a different substance, so the copper jet coming from the RPG will not behave like it is intended. That fact saved thousands off lives in Vietnam and many other places.

the main reason i was getting at was the after/post detonation affects, aluminium goes up like nobodys buisiness, causing higher casulty rate, also recovery is not cost produtive, better just to scrap rather than repair,..

Originally posted by SKUNK2
The Warrior you mentioned hit an IED not mines...The explosion was that large it completely destroyed the Warrior beyond recognition, ripping one of the sides from the vehicle blowing it at least 25m away. The entire crew were instantly killed.

The definition of an IED is an explosive device that is non-standard and made from improvised materials. Combining a number of AT mines in sequence in order to enhance the explosive effect is classed as an IED. So technically you were both correct.

As an aside, the majority of IED reports are simply standard munitions rigged up with a different firing mechanism (eg. a 155mm shell with the fuse removed and replaced with det cord and a mobile phone