GhostNet: Reconnaissance For Internet Doomsday

reply to post by InSpiteOf


I understand now what you meant, I apologise I misunderstood, amazing how clear things become when you clean your glasses lol, I'm not going to edit the post wouldn't be right.

Thank you for helping try clear up my ramblings.

Azz

reply to post by Asset1911


Are you willing to wait till it's too late for proof? Are you willing to risk your life and the life of those you love because your waiting for proof? The Chinese government has been at it long before this post. Stealing US Tech, Espionage etc. Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt when we are their target? You want proof? Fine wait for proof, and in the meantime I'm gunning up.


Edit because I have something to add that didn't occur to me before.

This new worm that is being introduced on april 1st. You know the one that would cripple tons of machines no matter what OS you use. I think there are a few threads about it now but one stands out to me being a tech guy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
[edit on 31-3-2009 by DaMod]

[edit on 31-3-2009 by DaMod]

[edit on 31-3-2009 by DaMod]

[edit on 31-3-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Asset1911

 

Are you willing to wait till it's too late for proof? Are you willing to risk your life and the life of those you love because your waiting for proof? The Chinese government has been at it long before this post. Stealing US Tech, Espionage etc. Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt when we are their target? You want proof? Fine wait for proof, and in the meantime I'm gunning up.


[edit on 31-3-2009 by DaMod]

Dude, I think you are seriously paranoid.
And what is "gunning up" going to do to avert a science fiction cyber attack?

Please read your own sig and live by the example.
no, not the sniper kitty thing, the other one.....

It won't avert anything but it would definitely help in the aftermath where your "science fiction" (read my edit to post above) attack where to take place. Its not being paranoid, it's being prepared. Sure this preparedness is madness but it is put to good use.

Very interesting stuff mr.old.school. This is the first I've heard of this. I just tried to U2U you but unfortunately I don't have 20 posts. I really want to pick your brain man! I'm a first year IT student with a need for answers to many questions. ... Anyone know how I can contact mr.old.school?
-wrath

@ Damod Wow hey dude calm down I'm not even American , I didn't mean to provoke such a reaction from your part , I was just asking a few questions and I was telling my opinion to the O.P I don't doubt his post is true . But chill man , chill , I did not say this was false . Wow I couldn't imagine such a reaction man you look scared by this stuff

But if you don't accept any incoming file to your pc , you run no risk right ?

[edit on 31-3-2009 by Asset1911]

reply to post by Asset1911


Most of us are aware of this topic and its having gone mainstream from earlier threads. You are guilty of not doing research yourself I'd think. Mister Old School does not need to justify this to this board.

On topic-

We, meaning business and government have got to learn that no information that is sensitive should ever be on a computer that is connected to a network in the first place. In cases where it is it is out of pure laziness and not wanting to use other methods to transfer information. It may be a pain to have to burn and deliver a disk or a document, but it is the only safe method.

Our best protection is to assume this is always a factor and act accordingly by making sure vital systems and information are never exposed on a network of any kind.

Edited to say: I did not see your other response until I posted but I'll let the post stand as is.

[edit on 3/31/2009 by Blaine91555]

Ok, guys. Whether you like it or not, the only thing the Chinese can't kill without moving is the nukes your submarines are carrying. And that scares the crap out of the "Politburo" leaders, fearing for the landscape they see from their window.
If the Chinese knew a way to infiltrate the submarines, i bet the West is doomed. Crazy theory i know , but a dozen well trained, well equipped guys can take down a ground based nuke site for a half hour, more than enough. Harder to kill a stealth submarine.

Anyway, read Sun-Tzu and you'll know the Chinese will defeat us without even firing a single shot.

When this news broke in the UK in the media they did not mention the problem about hardware that you pointed out.

AS soon as i heard about this on the news i thought about how i had been privy to this information and more thanks to the OP of the original thread and that gave me a sense of pride that we have such a great team in place here to keep these things in the public view.

i think this information as you say was truly broken by you and for that a star and a flag for you sir.

great read and a well researched and valid important thread in my eyes keep up the great work.

Talking of weaknesses in software made me think of PROMIS, which some members may be too new to know about. It's supposedly software that allows a back door to be opened into a huge range of computers.

So that we don't have to reinvent the wheel at ATS, I'm posting this search result which should get people started.

I'm not a techy myself but it's interesting to note that the first post in the first link contains this:

So I started calling and inquiring information in the biz, called a few douzen people I know, worked with or found names from in relation to PROMIS and also commercialy available software like it.
I also asked around on the net about PROMIS, asking people that already did some research but hit a dead end, if they could share all their data on it.

Then, out of the blue, I got a visit from the police. They said it was a standard survey, but they asked me all sorts of questions that I couldn't imagine a normal "police" survey to include, some of the questions were about what I do on my computers at home, what interests I have in relation to technology, hardware, software and networks.
What they also asked me was "do you have a job, car, own a house, stock or other things".

From this thread

reply to post by mister.old.school


Very interesting....today on FOX, they reported that a terrorist group was planning a massive hit on the White House. Within the same news program, they also covered the issue of this April Fool's internet virus, designed to probe for passwords, bank account numbers, and such....

Norton

I got the feeling the two were related.

You are quite incorrect that the infrastructure is safe if the attackers are criminals.

It is quite common within the industry to silently pay off the extortion demands of cyber criminals. The alternative is to have the FBI move in, take your servers apart piece by piece, and put each piece into clearly labeled plastic boxes as evidence.

Nothing says we are to be taken seriously when we threaten you, than taking out anyone who does not comply.

War is war, whether the attack is by a nation, or a syndicate.

To all appearances, this threat genuine. It is also unlikely to be a "Test Shot". The deployment mechanisms are already easily counterable.

In this kind of endeavor, all major weapons are one time use. Then you need to go back to the drawing board. Someone put a lot of time, money and effort into this. Payday is coming.



[edit on 31-3-2009 by Cyberbian]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
We, meaning business and government have got to learn that no information that is sensitive should ever be on a computer that is connected to a network in the first place. In cases where it is it is out of pure laziness and not wanting to use other methods to transfer information. It may be a pain to have to burn and deliver a disk or a document, but it is the only safe method.

Our best protection is to assume this is always a factor and act accordingly by making sure vital systems and information are never exposed on a network of any kind.

Edited to say: I did not see your other response until I posted but I'll let the post stand as is.

I'm far from a business expert but given todays business climate and needs what your proposing seems counterintuitive. Isn't the exchange of real time information critical to conducting modern business transactions. Your intentions are sound but simply do not apply to the real world. I think information can be kept private "if" procedures and rules are followed. No it is isn't easy or simple but it can be done.

brill

FWIW I am a computer security expert. Most of the network attacks I see stem from either Korea, China, or Japan. Does this indicate these nations are mounting for a large-scale power grab? Unlikely. Why? It's better to control the flow of information, or at least feed off of it, than it is to reveal their hand.

Have no doubt, though, information warfare is very real.

I've long worried about foreign manufactured routing equipment sending out heartbeats to reveal network topology. There are preventative measures, but not all network technicians create sufficiently restrictive iptable / IOS rules to keep information internal to the intranet from leaking to the outside world.

Thankfully most large organizations are smart enough to have NOCs that are several layers deep to not only do automated filtering, but to manually monitor network traffic for bizarre behavior. For instance, if it's midnight, no one's in a building, and no one's RDP/SSH/VNC'ed in to any of the boxes, it's a bit odd when a TCP stream activates and IRC commands start talking to a machine in a foreign country. Then there's the question though, who watches the watchers? A large number of breaches are inside jobs.

It's a quagmire. Even the old adage, "'the only safe computer is locked in a room and unplugged from the Internet" proves false. Wireless mice and keyboard traffic can be logged. Not to mention van eck phreaking is more real than many people realize.

In truth the only safe computer is one that's been physically incinerated.

The best solution I've seen is to have two physically different networks. One network connects to the outside world. Then another network of completely separate machines exists on a private network that at no point intersects with the public network. There are even mechanisms to detect bridging of the networks. This is still imperfect, but it's much better than the alternative.

For those of you who want a better understanding of how this all works. This paper, by Michael T. Raggo, provides a good overview.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by jasonjnelson

" If the world moves towards a one world gov't , China also benefits greatest. I mean, they then have a third of the total votes if we were in such a situation. My point? Even if neither of the two situations above were to take place, there is no doubt in my mind that China eyes our bread basket, and the power we have on this globe."

How Eurocentric of you [amusement]. . . do you really think that Chinese culture wants to have or be like the United States or the Western Nations? It is arrogant to assume that other cultures would aspire to live like one's own country does.
China will maintain it's honor and save face as it always has, as long as the other large nations are competing to damage each others' honor and make themselves look important.
As they have throughout history, China will probably be shrewd and cull the useful from the western Euro technologies and cultures, and ignore the rest of them. For an example, during the 1600's this policy kept China from being overrun by massive empire expansions by Islam, Byzantine, India/Persia.