Is skipping school a simple sign that kids are rejecting public shool programming?

reply to post by ludaChris



I agree the public education is lacking. That is why kids need to see that they need to go to college to get an education to be able to compete in the buisness world.

About 20 or so years ago a guy could drop out in junior high and get a job at McDonalds. Now you have to be a HS graduate to get that job.

About 20 or so years ago a HS graduate could compete in the buisness world. Now you have to have a College Diploma to get a good job.

Even if they go to home school it will be the same. Sure they may be smarter, but that doesn't amount to much on a resume if they don't have a College degree following it.

Home School and no college education is the same as going to a public HS and not getting an education.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by ludaChris

 

I agree the public education is lacking. That is why kids need to see that they need to go to college to get an education to be able to compete in the buisness world.

About 20 or so years ago a guy could drop out in junior high and get a job at McDonalds. Now you have to be a HS graduate to get that job.

About 20 or so years ago a HS graduate could compete in the buisness world. Now you have to have a College Diploma to get a good job.

Even if they go to home school it will be the same. Sure they may be smarter, but that doesn't amount to much on a resume if they don't have a College degree following it.

Home School and no college education is the same as going to a public HS and not getting an education.

Love the McDonald's example. Is that the bar this nations public schools set for its graduates? College isn't much different than high school. Except the parents aren't there and the teachers use bigger words, I've been there. You do the same thing you do in public school, read texts, memorize, answer questions and you get a grade. How is that education? I remember multiple times when on the occasion I had a professor who did expect some critical thinking, and the class was lacking, including myself. You could read the disappointment on his face. Shame really, could have used teachers like that in primary and secondary school.

The thing about home schooling in this country is many states have regulations or statutes the parents must follow in order for their child to be recognized by the state as having graduated high school or to advance to the next grade. So you are correct in your statement that it isn't much different than public school, if at all.

But I simply want to stress the questions: What business does the state have telling you how or where you have to educate your child? Where does the line between education and indoctrination start or end?

The Public Education System is very outdated.

There aren't exactly people chomping at the bit to create things to further education simply because it's not lucrative.

The short answer: It's not so much what's being taught, but how it's being taught. It needs an overhaul.
It really doesn't help that after Columbine, most schools became prisons.
And what's the first thing a state will cut spending in?
I hope everyone's noticing a pattern here.
It really shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

I'm not just complaining, as I know of ways to fix the problems. But I like to keep things under my hat, lest the traditionalists feel threatened.
These are extraordinary times.
Unconventional measures must be taken.

reply to post by ludaChris


The McDonalds referance was just an example. Don't read to much into it.

As far as the curriculum having to be taught in both public and home school.

What would you teach them? I would like to see your curriculum you would like to be taught.

reply to post by jd140


I get what you mean, but the McDonalds example is perfect because most of the minimum wage jobs now a days do require the High School Diploma. I'm simply stating that it's funny that they would require something that in essence means very little. That's my opinion anyhow. For many people that will be the end of the line. It doesn't make them lesser people, I work at a grocery store and I have a college degree. But that degree doesn't make me necessarily smarter than a guy who dropped out of high school.

I didn't mean to come across as holier than thou or anything. I don't think I would necessarily be a good teacher, let alone be allowed to choose curriculum for someone else. I'm simply trying to stimulate the discussion because I like where it's going. If you want to come along you are welcome to.

My views on education rest on the individual choosing what he/she wants to do with their lives. If they are happy working minimum wage jobs, that's fine. I don't make a lot of money, but I am happy with what I do. To me that is much more important. I would simply like to see people do what gives them joy.

Originally posted by Thelast
The Public Education System is very outdated.

There aren't exactly people chomping at the bit to create things to further education simply because it's not lucrative.

The short answer: It's not so much what's being taught, but how it's being taught. It needs an overhaul.
It really doesn't help that after Columbine, most schools became prisons.
And what's the first thing a state will cut spending in?
I hope everyone's noticing a pattern here.
It really shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

I'm not just complaining, as I know of ways to fix the problems. But I like to keep things under my hat, lest the traditionalists feel threatened.
These are extraordinary times.
Unconventional measures must be taken.

I agree its outdated, it was imported here from the Kingdom of Prussia, a totalitarian nation no less.

What is the Prussian education System?

Just reading a description of what that system was composed of is enough to wonder why it was imported to a constitutional republic. For those who don't know, I haven't been that forth rite, that is what this thread was about. My concern that our educational system is going to bring about the demise of what could have been a sustainable republic.

The Prussian system did give it's citizens a basic understanding of math, science, reading, and writing. But it also created citizens who would unquestionably follow their government. That is a dangerous path to tread.

Please add your ideas of how to fix it into the mix. The only solution I have come up with is to get rid of the system and allow community schooling to resume as it did before the Prussian system was brought here. Or to reinvent the system with a basis of stimulating individuality and creative thinking.

reply to post by ludaChris


I wasn't being combative in my last post.

I'm with you, the system could use an upgrade, but until then students will have to suffer through boredom, go to college, choose what they want to learn, study hard and then go into the world and do what they find interesting.

I think parents need to put their foot down about their kids going to school and stop blaming the system. If they want to homeschool then that is fine, but they still need to instill in them that the only way to get something is to give something. If that means cruising through school while earning an A in everything then it should be easy for them. If they are not an A student then they should get their kid to that level before complaining that the curiculum is outdated, because it is obvious that their kid is not cruising as they think he/she is.

Kids will be bored and skip class whether they find the classes challenging or not. I skipped school alot, not because I found the classes easy, but because I rather hang out with my girlfriends and buddies. I was lazy and would find it safe to say that anyone skipping school is as lazy as I was.

edit to correct spelling, I'm sure I missed some. It is late.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by ludaChris


I'd start by...embracing technology.

Turning lectures into debates.

School's today aren't about thinking. They are about memorizing, and regurgitating.

You want innovators? Stop pretending like all the answers are set in stone.

When you really think about the collection of human knowledge, you realize how small it is, and how arrogant we are to say anything is for sure.

Hundreds of years ago, everyone knew that the Earth was flat, and that we were the center of the universe.

Now, scientists think that it's possible we live in a holographic universe.
I think you get my point.

We have ways to foster innovation and original thought from a younger age.
But the real question is...do you think that traditionalists would allow that?

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Thelast]

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Thelast]

I was thinking about school in general lately, not mainly about skipping though. I never skip although, I do find school to be a place where children blindly have to do what they are told taking away the privilege to think for oneself. We memorize and regurgitate information each and everyday that we will most likely forget a few days later.

Today I got in trouble for "cheating" on some questions on a book we had to read. The assignment was meant for outside of school and two of my friends and I decided to do the assignment together. None of our answers were exactly the same as we used our own views to answer each question. Now we are labeled as "cheaters" and will be called to the principal's office shortly to be harassed by a moronic principal that will try and incite fear into us. Great.

Is collaborating with others frowned upon now? A company hires people who specialize in different occupations to collaborate with one another to become a successful company. Collaboration is needed for evolution, an individual can only do so much without aid from another.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Recloose]

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Recloose]

reply to post by ludaChris


Um, no more than a forrest fire is a direct sign of global warming.

Originally posted by Thelast
We have ways to foster innovation and original thought from a younger age.
But the real question is...do you think that traditionalists would allow that?

Liked your post, good ideas. While I don't think traditionalists would allow it, how much longer are they going to be around? But on the flipside reforming education in my opinion should be near or at the top of priorities. For both financial, social, and ethical reasons.

nah. Kids have always done it. I think it is more of a right of passage. or they wanted to do somethign stupid.

Originally posted by ludaChris
I got to thinking about my own experience of public high school the other day while talking with a friend of mine. I started thinking that maybe the reason I desired to skip school so much was that subconsciously was rejecting the program. Has anyone else ever thought about this? I feel like I have learned so much more and am more eager to learn and study than ever after I finished school.

I found an interesting opinion piece as well that touches on this subject.
Dropping out to Learn

[edit on 3/25/2009 by ludaChris]

Schools teach the following:
- History as written by the winners of wars
- Biased and unchallenged information on a variety of subjects
- How to live, in the system
- How things are "out of our control" and things "are the way they are"
- How to be proper debt slaves

Schools do not teach the following:
- How to get ahead in life
- How to ask original questions and arrive at original answers
- How to question what seem like failed policies, public, private and education based
- How the world really turns, and how we are born into debt, and that we are infact slaves
- How to get a meaningful job
- Practical day to day living


So once a student wakes up to the fact that the education they are being provided not only is not going to help them in the real world, but also does NOT educate them about how to live effectively in the real world. These students are apt to lose focus, disengage and likely drop out.

I remember seeing a documentary in which the speaker says something to the effect of, this is the most powerful, wealthy country in the world, yet education is so far below par. This is no accident, the government is getting exactly what they ordered.

Does it not worry anyone, that this IS WHAT THEY ORDERED?

Originally posted by Recloose
I was thinking about school in general lately, not mainly about skipping though. I never skip although, I do find school to be a place where children blindly have to do what they are told taking away the privilege to think for oneself. We memorize and regurgitate information each and everyday that we will most likely forget a few days later.

Today I got in trouble for "cheating" on some questions on a book we had to read. The assignment was meant for outside of school and two of my friends and I decided to do the assignment together. None of our answers were exactly the same as we used our own views to answer each question. Now we are labeled as "cheaters" and will be called to the principal's office shortly to be harassed by a moronic principal that will try and incite fear into us. Great.

Is collaborating with others frowned upon now? A company hires people who specialize in different occupations to collaborate with one another to become a successful company. Collaboration is needed for evolution, an individual can only do so much without aid from another.

All the memorization and regurgitation only lead to indoctrination. Which is the purpose the system we have now, and was the keystone purpose of the system it was derived from.

As far as collaboration goes, I see it differently but I get your point. In my own experience companies and corporations are structured like our school systems in this country. A board of directors for a company who oversee the smooth running of things financially and operationally are like the school board of your county. They oversee the operations of all the schools in the county. Upper management at the individual schools would be the Principal and Administrators. Lower management would be the teachers who directly oversee the workers(students). The way things are structured in corporations is hierarchical, much like most institutions in our society, including schools.

And that is where the problem lies, not necessarily having a hierarchy of authority in schools as some is needed, but applying a hierarchy to the student body themselves. They aren't achieving to better themselves, but to earn the praise of their 'superiors.' In a way the grading system in our schools is the institution because if you don't follow that curriculum or you question that authority, you won't advance in this system.

I went to a private school, and although it made me want to learn the topics of my own choice, I never wanted to skip. I mean I was stressed out, sure, but they taught so much in one day that I knew it would be impossible to catch up later.

You're probably right though. Had I felt like I wasn't learning anything of value, I would have gone to great lengths to skip and read my own books. I went to a public school before I went to private school, and I definitely did not enjoy it. I was counting the days until I could transfer to my new school.

reply to post by Le Colonel


Agree.

But without "schools", many of the projects you use today would cease to exist...

It helps you think. It helps you become a PRODUCTIVE member of society. Now, maybe not the material itself, but teachers do have some VERY bad methods of teaching.

I do agree on the reform in certain parts too. General life type things should be taught. Managing money, future plans, cooking, etc.

They teach us the complicated crap but fail to teach the common sense part.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by Le Colonel

 

Agree.

But without "schools", many of the projects you use today would cease to exist...

It helps you think. It helps you become a PRODUCTIVE member of society. Now, maybe not the material itself, but teachers do have some VERY bad methods of teaching.

I do agree on the reform in certain parts too. General life type things should be taught. Managing money, future plans, cooking, etc.

They teach us the complicated crap but fail to teach the common sense part.

Who the hell said do away with shcools out right? The schools we have are just terrible, and naturally students are turning away from them.

I dont agree with the way police officers conduct themselves for the most part, am I calling for disbanding of police departments? NO!

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Agree.

But without "schools", many of the projects you use today would cease to exist...

It helps you think. It helps you become a PRODUCTIVE member of society. Now, maybe not the material itself, but teachers do have some VERY bad methods of teaching.

I do agree on the reform in certain parts too. General life type things should be taught. Managing money, future plans, cooking, etc.

They teach us the complicated crap but fail to teach the common sense part.

When the system creates productive members of society, who defines that term? Simply put this system creates obedient workers, not driven individuals. We are products to be exploited and used for those who own the system and nothing else. That's the only reason that makes sense to me that our system of education could be such crap.

I mean its either that or the people running the system are more ignorant than the children coming into it starting in kindergarten.

Originally posted by king9072
Who the hell said do away with shcools out right? The schools we have are just terrible, and naturally students are turning away from them.

I dont agree with the way police officers conduct themselves for the most part, am I calling for disbanding of police departments? NO!

That was me, and obviously it's not realistic. I tend to get pretty worked up on this topic. I could get into how police are taught in their academies these days, but that would be off topic.

I do think we need to gradually move to an education system that promotes individuality and critical thinking though. That would go a long way over the next century to fixing problems we do and will have as long as the current system stays in place.

What school is nowadays, is essentially that. Programming, education second. We are desensitized, taught to be very liberal, and taught that the teachers are parent like figures... destroying families. School is a complete joke.... a total waste of time. There needs to be some serious reform.