Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

reply to post by riley


did i say anything about the church!? no!!!

and i dont think i was REPLYING 2 U

reply to post by Clearskies

With or without the pdf, I am not seeing anything specifically about adoptees
or women who CHOSE NOT TO ABORT and child abuse.

The pdf adresses UNPLANNED pregnancies, obviously this includes women who made mistakes and chose to bring a child to term.

If you want me to list part of the pdf information and the sources since you can not see it I will, but I'll do it later tonight. I'm going out now.

-Cheers

[edit on 31-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by Krahzeef


Mary wasn't raped. To say so goes against everything that any christian agrees to. Not a very wise way to pick a fight.

Second, I would hope that if someone was raped, that they could avoid the long term pregnancy, and have a morning after pill/VERY EARLY abortion. If the woman was 6 mos pregnant, however?
No, at that point, I think that the baby should be c-sected asap, and put up for adoption, no questions asked, if the mother asked.

Does that clear up anything friend?

Originally posted by XD9611
reply to post by riley

 

did i say anything about the church!? no!!!

and i dont think i was REPLYING 2 U

Sorry when I thought you were talking about the "holy one" I thought you meant christianity. There have been many christians that have commited murder so obviously the "rules" didn't stop them.

reply to post by riley


i think all religions have exploited and distorted what God had intended for His creatures, great and small, maybe we think too much.
But i truly believe taking a life, no matter the circumstance, is wrong, it just feels that way when you put deep thought into it.

reply to post by Clearskies


Hey Clearskies, decided to post it real quick, forgot I already put it in text form if Watcher wanted it.

Fast Facts

The Consequences of Unplanned Pregnancy

Unplanned pregnancyi, and in particular unwanted pregnancy, has a wide range of serious consequences. One of the most obvious
is, of course, abortionii. In 2001, there were approximately 1.3 million abortions in the United States, and although this number
has been decreasing, the abortion rate in this country is still higher than in most other developed countries.1

Listed below are a variety of additional consequences, beginning with some important new findings from Child Trends, a nonpartisan
research organization based in Washington, DC (www.childtrends.org), detailed in the box below.

Child Health and Development

A new analysis indicates that children 2 years old who were born as the result of an unplanned pregnancy had significantly
lower cognitive test scores when compared to children born as the result of an intended pregnancy. After controlling for
important background factors, these significant differences persisted for children who were born as the result of an unwanted
pregnancy (a subset of unplanned pregnancy). The cognitive test scores include direct assessment of a variety of
skills, including listening, vocabulary, exploring, problem solving, memory, communication, as well as a child’s overall mental
ability relative to other children in his or her age group.

This analysis is based on data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study Birth Cohort, a nationally representative longitudinal
study of about 11,000 children born in 2001 conducted by the National Center for Education Statistics.2

Parents and Relationships

New analysis shows that women who had a child as a result of unplanned pregnancy experience greater relationship
instability than women whose pregnancies were intended. That is, in the five years following the birth of the child from an
unplanned pregnancy, 46 percent of mothers had one or more cohabitating or married relationship changes. This compares
to 21 percent among mothers who had a birth as a result of an intended pregnancy.

This analysis is based on data from the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative periodic survey
conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics that includes over 5,000 women aged 15-44.3


i Unplanned pregnancies include those reported by woman to be unwanted or mistimed (also known as “unintended”).

ii A small number of women who planned their pregnancy make the difficult decision to terminate it after learning that it poses a serious maternal health risk or that the fetus has severe
abnormalities. Other reasons may arise as well. Even so, abortion itself is a clear indication that a pregnancy was or became unwanted.

Findings from previous research on the consequences of unplanned pregnancy are detailed below.

Preconception Care, Prenatal Care and Infant Health

Women who experience an unplanned pregnancy often do not have the opportunity to engage in preconception care, which has •
been shown to benefit both mothers and babies (e.g. reductions in spina bifida).4,5

Compared to women who planned their pregnancies, women who have an unplanned pregnancy, and in particular an unwanted •
pregnancy, are more likely to delay the initiation of prenatal care.4,6-8

The risk of both preterm delivery• 9-11 and low birthweight4,9,10,12 are higher for births resulting from unplanned pregnancies.

Babies born to women as the result of an unplanned pregnancy are significantly less likely to be breastfed than are babies born to •
women who intended their pregnancies.13 Some studies report that this is particularly true among women who experience an unwanted
pregnancy rather than a pregnancy that is mistimed.

Child Health/Development and Family Environment

Children born from an unplanned pregnancy, and especially an unwanted pregnancy, are at risk on a number of developmental fronts.•

For example, in one study, children who were born as the result of an unplanned pregnancy exhibited higher levels of fearfulness and •
lower levels of positive affect by age two. When these children entered preschool, they scored lower on tests of verbal development.4

They also have lower vocabulary scores• 14 and reduced levels of educational attainment15,16 compared to children born from intended
pregnancies.

These children have poorer physical• 15,17-19 and mental health15,20 compared to those children born as the result of an intended
pregnancy.

They also have relationships with their mothers that are less close during childhood (and possibly into adulthood) when compared to •
peers who were born as the result of an intended pregnancy.21-24

They may also have higher levels of delinquency during adolescence compared to children born from intended pregnancies.• 7,25

Along these same lines, one very unique study compared children born to women who were twice denied an abortion with the •
children of women who had not made similar requests. The study, conducted in Eastern Europe, found that throughout their childhood,
and particularly as they aged, the children born as the result of an unwanted pregnancy had a larger burden of various social and
relationship problems including psychological issues and greater levels of criminal activity than did the controls.15

The majority of children born as the result of an unplanned pregnancy are born to women who are either single or cohabiting.• 26 This
is important because children raised in one-parent families face more challenges in a variety of areas than do children raised in two-
parent, low-conflict married families.27-30

For example, when compared to similar children who grow up with two parents, children in one-parent families are twice as likely to •
drop out of high school, 2.5 times as likely to become teen mothers, 1.4 times as likely to be both out of school and out of work, and five
times more likely to be poor. 28

Even after adjusting for a variety of relevant social and economic differences, children in single-parent homes have lower grade-point •
averages, lower college aspirations, and poorer school attendance records. As adults, they also have higher rates of divorce.28-30

SOURCES

Sources

Finer L., and Henshaw, S. (2006). Estimates of Abortion Incidence 2001-2003. New York: Guttmacher Institute.1.


Child Trends Inc. (2007). Unpublished analysis of Early Childhood Longitudinal Study Birth Cohort data on pregnancy intention and child health outcomes. Washington, DC: National Campaign 2.
to Prevent Teen Pregnancy.

Child Trends Inc. (2007). Unpublished analysis of the National Survey of Family Growth - pregnancy intention status and relationship turbulence. Washington, DC: National Campaign to Prevent 3.
Teen Pregnancy.

Brown S.S., and Eisenberg, L., ed. (1995). 4.
The Best Intentions: Unintended Pregnancy and the Well-Being of Children and Families. Washington, DC: National Academy Press.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2006). Recommendations to improve preconception health and health care - United States: a report of the CDC/ATSDR Preceonception Care Work 5.
Group and the Select Panel on Preconception Care. MMWR; 55(RR-6):1-23.

D’Angelo D.V., Gilbert, B.C., Rochat, R,. Santelli, J.S., and Herold, J.M. (2002). Differences between mistimed and unwanted pregnancies among women who have live births. 6.
Perspectives on Sexual
and Reproductive Health; 36(5):192-197.

Joyce T.J., Kaestner, R., and Korenman, S. (2000). The effect of pregnancy intention on child development. 7.
Demography; 37(1):83-94.

Pulley L.V., Klerman, L.V., Tang, H., and Baker, B.A. (2002). The extent of pregnancy mistiming and its association with material characteristics and pregnancy outcomes. 8.
Perspectives on Sexual and
Reproductive Health; 34(4):206-211.

Hummer R., Scmertmann, C.P., Eberstein, I.W., and Kelly, S. (1995). Retrospective reports of pregnancy wantedness and birth outcomes in the United States. 9.
Social Science Quarterly; 76(2):402-418.

Kost K, Landry, D.J., and Darroch, J.E. (1998). The effects of pregnancy planning status on birth outcomes and infant care. 10.
Family Planning Perspectives; 30(5):223-230.

Mohllajee A.P., Curtis, K.M., Morrow, B., and Marchbanks, P. (2007). Pregnancy intention and its relationship to birth and marital outcomes. 11.
Obstetrics and Gynecology; 109(3):678-686.

Eggleston E., Tsui, A.O., and Kotelchuck, M. (2001). Unintended pregnancy and low birth weight in Ecuador. 12.
Social Science & Medicine; 51(7):808-810.

Dye T.D., Wojtowycz, M.A., Aubry, R.A., Quade, J., and Kilburn, H. (1997). Unintended Pregnancy and Breast-Feeding Behavior. 13.
American Journal of Public Health; 87:1709-1711.

Korenman S., Kaestner, R., and Joyce, T.J. (2001). Unintended pregnancy and the consequences of nonmarital childbearing. In: Wu LL, & Wolfe, B., ed. 14.
Out of wedlock: Causes and consequences of
nonmarital fertility. New York: Russell Sage Foundation.

David H.P. (2006). Born Unwanted, 35 years later: The Prague study. 15.
Health Matters; 14(27):181-190.

Myrhmam A., Olsen, P., Rantakallio, P., and Laara, E. (1995). Does the wantedness of a pregnancy predict a child’s educational attainment? 16.
Family Planning Perspectives; 27(3):116-119.

Crissey S. (2006). Effect of pregnancy intention on child well-being and development: Combining retrospective reports of attitude and contraceptive use. 17.
Population Research and Policy Review;
24(6):594-615.
Hummer R., Hack, K.A., and Raley, R.K. (2004). Retrospective reports of pregnancy wantedness and child

www.TheNationalCampaign.org

[edit on 31-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Sources continued:

being in the United States. 18.
Journal of Family Issues; 25(3):404-428.

Shapiro-Mendoza C., Selwyn, B.J., Smith, D.P., & Sanderson, M. (2005). Parental pregnancy intention and early childhood stunting. 19.
International Journal of Epidemiology; 34(2):387-396.

Axinn WG, Barber, J.S., and Thorton, A. (1998). The long term impact of childbearing decisions on children’s self-esteem. 20.
Demography; 35(4):435-444.

Barber JA, Axinn, W.G., and Thorton, A. (1999). Unwanted childbearing, health, and mother-child relationships. 21.
Journal of Health and Social Behavior; 40(3):237-257.

Ipsa J.M., Sable, M.R., Porter, N., and Csizmadia, A. (2007). Pregnancy acceptance, parenting stress, and toddler attachment in low-income black families. 22.
Journal of Marriage and Family; 69(1):1-13.

Rosengard C., Pollock, L., Weitzen, S., Meers, A., and Phipps, M.G. (2006).Concepts of the advantages and disadvantages of teenage childbearing among pregnant adolescents: a qualitative 23.
analysis. Pediatrics; 118(2):206-211.

Zuravin S.J. (1991). Unplanned childbearing and family size: Their relationship to child neglect and abuse. 24.
Family Planning Perspectives; 23(4):155-161.

Hay C., and Evans, M.M. (2006). Has Roe v. Wade reduced U.S. crime rates? Examining the link between mothers’ pregnancy intentions and children’s later involvement in law-violating behavior. 25.
Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency; 43(1).

Chandra A., Martinez, G.M., Mosher, W.D., Abma, J.C., and Jones, J. (2005). Fertility, Family Planning, and Reproductive Health of U.S. Women: Data From the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth. 26.
Vital and Health Statistics; 23(25).

Hymowitz, K. (2006). 27.
Marriage and caste in America. Separate and unequal families in a post-marital age. Chicago, IL: Ivan R. Dee.

McLanahan, S.S. (1994). The Consequences of single Motherhood. 28.
The American Prospect; 18 (Summer):48-58.

Thomas, A., and Sawhill, I. (2005). For love and money? The impact of family structure on family income. 29.
Marriage and Child Wellbeing; 15(2).

Zill, N., and O’Donnell, K. (2004). 30.
Child Poverty Rates by Maternal Risk Factors: An Update. Rockville, MD: WESTAT.

Orr, S.T. (1997). Unintended pregnancy and the psychosocial well-being of pregnant women. 31.
Women’s Health Issues; 7(1):38-46.

Gazmararian J., Adams, M., Saltzman, L., Johnson, C., Bruce, F., Marks, J.S., et al. (1995). The relationship between pregnancy intendedness and physical violence in mothers of newborns. 32.
Obstetrics
and Gynecology; 85(6):1031-1038.

Goodwin, M.M., Gazmararian, J.E., Johnson, C.H., Gilbert, B.C., & Saltzman, LE. (2000). Pregnancy Intendedness and Physical Abuse Around the Time of Pregnancy: Findings from the Pregnancy 33.
Risk Assessment Monitoring System, 1996–1997. Maternal and Child Health Journal; 4(2):85-93.

www.TheNationalCampaign.org


[edit on 31-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by XD9611
reply to post by riley

 

i think all religions have exploited and distorted what God had intended for His creatures, great and small, maybe we think too much.

yeah.. but before you were saying that not believing in god was why people took life when clearly that isn't true. I dislike the myth that belief in god creates morality- there is no evidence to support that assumption.

But i truly believe taking a life, no matter the circumstance, is wrong, it just feels that way when you put deep thought into it.

if thats the way it feels right for you thats fine.. depends on the thinker I guess.

This thread has now been hijacked.


U2U me if it reopens to the general public.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by jasonjnelson]

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
I honestly think with the modern advances in the medical fields, vasectomies and female contraceptives (i.e. IUD's) should be much more accessible. It will answer to both sides of the abortion issue. And for science's sake, who would have a child--especially during these economic hardships?

Abstinence isn't the answer. From a physiological standpoint, we all have hormones that trigger sexual impulses. Sex is natural as breathing. The prominence of virtility (regarding both sexes) must be acknowledged, but should be not ignored in order to solve the abortion debate. We all want some,basically (unintentionally leaving out gays and lesbians in this post, my apologizes).

It is not shocking to find that an american organization (liberal would be an appropriate label too) such as Planned Parenthood has turned the "women's rights" mantra into a commodity. That's America for you, plain and simple. Democracy, liberty, freedom my ass. It is and always has been about money, capital. It is a place where every single entity is being turned into a profit opportunity--and hence what is causing the economic collapse as I type...

Well no it isn't shocking and THAT is the problem. It ought to be shocking but where is the outrage. Like porn and viollence and just about every sexual fetish there is out there, you have some people seeking to make a profit of a market. If it doesn't exist we will create one.

Sex as everyone knows is, an addictive dynamic and this particular side effect of is has its roots in eugenics which by the way was legalized here before we found out about the Nazis doing it, WE had already passed laws allowing it and people were forced to undergo medical procedures against there will. I see us coming to this again very soon.

What is really Ironic is when the CIA had been using crack for the social engineering of black neighborhoods and giving males in tuskege syphylis they began using planned parenthood to keep the Black population down and are still targeting blacks for this same reason resulting in a substantially more targeted group for abortion. Today, over 1500 blacks are systematically killed by Planned Parenthood.



You can tell a lot about a society's own demise by the way it treats its youngest and elderly citizens. They succumb to the numbing realization of their own barbarism and implode

Woman have been methodically indoctrinated to think first of abortion and adoption second. It is Planned Parenthoods agenda to make adoption like life is for pro choice or hehe no choice at all.



The point of this video is that because of abortion there is a huge drop in adoptions for infertile couples. PP would lose money if they encouraged more adoptions. This is why almost ALL of the data Rapsthebat offers is skewed to reflect easily manipulated figures to fit their arguments.

They use linguistic programming much like I have seen in many books about communism. (Before anyone is presumptuous to ask, the answer is no. ) Ill tell you what else they do, almost all of the arguments I have seen given here by pro choice2kill advocates are those from websites where planned parenthood offers "comebacks" or pre made cookie cutter criticizm to debate pro-lifers. While they call it "Planned Parenthood" what they plan is anything BUT planning for parenthood. They plan to murder our children and that is all they do. The consultations they offer are very similar to the logic being used here and offer these rationalities to woman to make it easier to justify the choice. Once the choice is made by a woman, they must defend that choice whenever they see arguments that one upped those they were given at kill time, they usually get furiously angry. This is how we know who the victims are. This is how we know which woman were actually given this cowardly advice by there actions, how they respond. Would you want to know you may have made a mistake like this? Or would you become an advocate of pro-choice and be a voluntary militant activist NOT to defend the right of choice, but in a ever lasting battle to defend your decision while postponing your inevitable guilt where the day it hits cognition explosion results and most woman fall into a depression so deep many become suicidal.

You have to know something about biology and some of you who are so into science should know or have heard by now that their are components of the female DNA that are expressed in a retaliatory response to things like abortion and C-section births. They don't know much about it yet but they do know the statistics are getting more compelling with each year.




Abortion is not a choice it should be the last resort of an overwhelming predicament and one both the male and female should be aprised of and both should have their voices heard. Remember this idea of cognitive dissonence where life begins has long been resolved and any scientist saying they do not know is no scientists at all because,,

they DO know.

reply to post by riley


i was saying that pro-choicers would not take a life if they believed in what God had said as the rule, that doesnt include those fighting and taking lives in the eradication of opposing forces of those against Gods ways, and belief in God reinforces morality, it doesnt create it. There is plenty of evidence, it is the way He wanted it, its right by discernation of facts. Not by one's opinion, we arent Great enough to have that kind of opinion, be humble and know my place in His Kingdom. I wont profess to be an opinion maker at that level, neither should the rest of us.

reply to post by jasonjnelson



Mod Edit: Please focus on the post, not the poster. Cheers - alien

[edit on 1-4-2009 by alien]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Again Rapsthebat uses studies paradoxically impossible to give as samples for the justification of abortion as first choice contraception and if she says didn't ever say it should then why isn't she giveing alternative measures. She seems to know only those books I that give creedence to the argument about abject poverty being one of the same components used in studies done in the united states to justify the passing of bills that would be used behind the incidious population control of Black communities where they wanted socialism to rise using black voters thinking the liberals were on there side while decimating there numbers using tactics of eugenics. This would keep them a minority while promoting reliance on the state.

The debate tactic used by Rapsthebat is one i have seen Ken Miller use and an old lawyers trick we have all seen in the PBS Documentary for the Dover VS Kitzmiller where Prof. Behe is overwhelmed with a stack of books but is usually called the logical fallacy of the call to authorty ad-populum ad-nauseum.

The fact is just because something is legal 30 years doesn't make it right. Just ask yourself how long slavery was legal and many other terrible things we have done to sanitize the systematic killing of innocent Americans singled out by common denominators they all share like Race and Tribe where we called the Indiam "Savages" and their woman Squaw's We called the Blacks Negros and genocide them almost to extinction or used them for slave labor.

The arguments for and against are scary when you see how similar the rationale to either enslave or kill human beings are.

You cannot reason with some of them.

Some post librarys of books suggesting they have a mountain of evidence yet those posting such unimpressive sophomoric methods of debate invariably have not read one of them cover to cover much less that list.

How are we to know they are even supporting your argument since they are only lists of books about subjects dealing with it. How about some excerpts from those books with contextual emphasis made to support your argument otherwise your list is nothing more than wasted bandwith'

Mod Edit: Please focus on the post, not the poster. Cheers - alien

[edit on 1-4-2009 by alien]

Originally posted by Krahzeef

OK I'll ask again. Why would you allow abortion under the condition of rape? The source of the child should be irrelevant to your decision making process shouldn't it.

Umm she was Raped? That means she was forced to have sex she was impregnated by force. This surely qualifies as something she is in NO WAY obligated to or Responsible for and as much as we can go back and fourth on the subject of divine providence or how she might find the child a blessing. I think that is insulting to most woman and it is insulting to even consider.

It is insensitive to even ask in my opinion it is THAT self evident

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

 

I would reply, but this poster has me blocked.

Is that fair? That she can post on this thread without rebuttal?

This is not an attack, merely a point for others on this thread to understand the lack of rebuttal.

I am jealous hoping she has me on her ignore also. Ill show you some interestingly similar threads that have gone the same way in a u2u Jason.

like the guy above me says thats the way she rolls unskilled and unaware of it. She gets under peoples skin Eventually you crack from her hammering away at you when all the while she doesn't get it that you ain't answering her because you don't see her posts lol. Best to let her think she is right because eventually you go off then wham you got a warn red tag or worse a post ban. I know you get upset as I do but I wouldn't take her ignoring you personal.

I mean really when you think about it

Wow.. you both winge about someone having you on block (which I doubt you could even know for sure) as though the option to do so is somehow unfair.. yet you then spend an an entire off topic post slagging her off in a personal attack because you think she's not reading? Classy.

I wouldn't blame her if she did have you on block.

Originally posted by XD9611
reply to post by riley

 

i was saying that pro-choicers would not take a life if they believed in what God had said as the rule, that doesnt include those fighting and taking lives in the eradication of opposing forces of those against Gods ways, and belief in God reinforces morality, it doesnt create it. There is plenty of evidence, it is the way He wanted it, its right by discernation of facts. Not by one's opinion, we arent Great enough to have that kind of opinion, be humble and know my place in His Kingdom. I wont profess to be an opinion maker at that level, neither should the rest of us.

Your point of view.. there are many god fearing christians that are all for the death penalty and could cite bible verses to support their stance. Morality is subjective and no two people's interpritation of "god" is the same so you can't dismiss the actions of past pope's crusades as being un-god like as though YOU somehow no better. Thats not very humble of you.

I also resent being told that only people who believe in god value loss of life.. that implies atheists would be fine with murder.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by riley]

CUE STANDARD MOD SPEECH

Hi People,

This thread is about Abortion.

It is NOT about who has who on 'Ignore', nor the characteristics of any posters within this thread.

Please...focus on the post NOT the poster.


Cheers,
ALIEN
ATS SuperModerator

reply to post by Aermacchi


So the topic of abortion is more about avoiding responsibilities than the actual stopping of a life? Abortion is abortion, it doesn't matter how it got there and shouldn't alter a view unless it's a shaky view to begin with.

This is what I don't get, The pro-lifers go on and on about the sanctity of life etc. etc. But then aren't consistent in their beliefs when it gets difficult. If people think abortion is murder (which I don't) then why allow conditions? It's "Thou shalt not kill" Not "Though shall not kill unless..."

Jason, You've still managed to avoid the question by putting conditions on it. What about 8wks into the pregnancy?

Originally posted by jasonjnelson

 

Your "made up entity" response tells me that you have no respect for the religious beliefs of others.

No, I wouldn't say that - I simply don't believe in that stuff and I think that for people of a religious conviction to judge or attempt to tell someone else what they can or cannot do to their bodies isn't right. And besides, if God didn't approve of abortion, then why does he allow it? I'm guessing because a) he does or more likley b) he never existed to begin with.

But I don't believe it to be solely the choice of the woman. Otherwise, why would I care if people beat their children , or pets?
Don't say this doesn't relate. Many of us, and i mean at least half, see this "fetus" as a being capable of great things, and deserving of at least SOME protection. Equal in fact, to a human being.

Yes but now you're referring to children who have been born which are legally recognised as children (some countries have different laws on when a fetus becomes a sentient being) and pets which should never be beaten. (I'm an animal lover!)

A 2 year old child is very different from an unborn fetus. But of course, it's your opinion on which is what. All I'm saying is *you* cannot decide for someone else.

But who cares, right?

Well, we all do, hence why we're on this thread. We just care differently and in different ways is all.

With every passing day, I see the great country our ancestors built being torn down by the filth that is the liberal mentality.
I am sickened to the point of armed rebellion.

Now that's worrying. You disaprove of abortion and the beating of children and animals but are willing to take up arms and rebel? If you say you wouldn't use the weapons, why take up arms and not do it peacefully? That's just another form of violence and oppression you're expressing which you dislike when it's on abortion (shrug)

You are not my country-men.

Correct, I'm not an American

You, who claim to be compassionate, and yet denounce the future of a living human, merely because it is inconvenient or "not my body".

Did I? I'm not compassionate! Far from it, mate

You, who claim to know whats best for MY children, starting with condom education when my children are not yet 11.

Education is generally better than ignorance, they say. And you'd be surprised at what the average 11 year old talks about with their mates

You, the waste that let the T.V. raise your children, and quantify moral culpability based on what you are caught doing, not on what you actually do.

I don't have kids, nor do I want any. I'm smart enough to know my gene pool needs to end with me.

You are not my breathren anymore.

I never was to begin with. At what point did you assume we were friends?

We're two people, hiding behind the anonymity of a computer display ranting and raving our thoughts without impunity. I certainly don't hate or dislike you, or anyone here. But breathren?? A bit too melodramatic, me thinks.

Originally posted by Krahzeef


So the topic of abortion is more about avoiding responsibilities than the actual stopping of a life? Abortion is abortion, it doesn't matter how it got there and shouldn't alter a view unless it's a shaky view to begin with.

This is what I don't get, The pro-lifers go on and on about the sanctity of life etc. etc. But then aren't consistent in their beliefs when it gets difficult. If people think abortion is murder (which I don't) then why allow conditions? It's "Thou shalt not kill" Not "Though shall not kill unless..."

Jason, You've still managed to avoid the question by putting conditions on it. What about 8wks into the pregnancy?

I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand. We are all the sum total of the choices we make. Most of the issue we have as problems in our lives we have chosen in one way or another, not all but most.

Now if someone were to make you walk into a bank while someone has a rifle trained on your head with the instructions for you to rob the bank and a security guard comes by sees whats going on and begins shooting at you. Another security guard comes up from behind you and says to get on the ground. You spin knocking him out while the other security guard starts to shoot. You take the gun from the one you knocked out and fire back killing the security guard. you run for the door but you suddenly see the red dot on your chest from the laser scope of those forcing you to rob this bank with the rifle aimed at you. You grab a money sack and leave getting into a truck you drive where they let you go. You have taken a life while being forced to commit a crime.

Are you responsible for any of that?

I don't think so and I don't think someone being raped should have to be forced into being the mother of the rapists child.

You think all crimes are dealt with in a cookie cutter fashion like you are suggesting where there is something in the legal field called mitigating circumstances.