Ammunition being RF chipped? Maybee guns too!

Something I have been thinking of and I must share but is It possible that the ammunition sold at gun shows and stores being Radio Frequency or similar type of tracking chip.

Someone I work with told me that at the last gun show he was at that they where selling rare types of ammo that is hard to find in large calibers >=.223 it made me think why would they do this? Why would armor piercing rounds and incindiarie rounds show up at a gun show for civilian purpose?

My first thought was it's chipped so that when needed they can find ammo cache's.

And if they would do that what would keep manufacturers from chipping plastic/composite parts on guns!?

It is VERY POSSIBLE!

Interesting. I never thought of that myself. Certainly possible. Isnt RFID chips like insanely small, not powerful but small. Enough that if you were scanning for it(ammo cache), you might be able to find it because there are lots of ammo clumped together, therefore creating a larger "ping". Not really sure what im talking about, but sounds plausible.

I dont own a gun (Canadian here) but certainly been thinking about it lately.

Yeah theres some information out there on this topic if you do some searching. Apparently around 2003 there was a push for smart guns and rfid'ing all bullets to fire through a smart gun but as you see the gun never manifested but the bullet idea did.

You could not RFID a rifle round on the outside for many reasons one being everyone would see the RFID chip. A simple knife scratch through the circuit would kill it.

Putting the chip on the inside of a round would not work as the metal case would act as a RF shield and block the signal. think Faraday cage.
en.wikipedia.org...
this is the trick shoplifters use by lining a bag with foil to defeat the store RFID tag scanners at the doors

Yes you could RFID guns but they would have to be very careful in that a RFID scanner would find the tag if people found out.
Then the tag could be burned out with microwave energy.

I have been playing with RFID tag of all types just to see ways to use them for other then the intended perpuses.
Also how to block them, defuse them and build them for fun.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by ANNED]

Is there a simple device that can tell you if a RFID chip is near by or not? Just a device the beeps if a RFID chip gets lets say when in a 5 feet of it so you could swip things thay you think may be chiped so you could locate and remove or distory the RFID chip or at the very least be aware that is is there?

Originally posted by fixer1967
Is there a simple device that can tell you if a RFID chip is near by or not?

RFDump is a backend GPL tool to directly interoperate with any RFID ISO-Reader to make the contents stored on RFID tags accessible. This makes the following types of audits possible:

* Test robustness of data-structures on the reader and the backend-application
* Proof-of-concept manipulations of RFID tag contents
* Clone / copy & paste User-Data stored on RFID tags
* Audit tag-security features

www.rf-dump.org...

RE: this ammo at gun shows, nearly every centerfire rifle cartridge is "armor piercing" so that's not unusual. Also, "incendiaries" are pretty common. Tracers are fun and things like "dragons breath" are great ways for idiots to ruin their barrels. Note, there is no shortage of idiots.

As to uncommon calibers ">=.223" well, greater than .223 encompasses what essentially amounts to an infinite number of different calibers.

I dont think it's feasible. Which isnt to say I dont think they'd try to do this. "They" are generally incredibly stupid and consider the programs with the least quality results costing the most money to be the most successful.

reply to post by ANNED


I was also thinking that too - the bullet casing would likely stop RFID from working. Or just microwave them first

I do think however, weapons could be, but if you are cleaning them well, wouldn't you find the RFID chip in the process....

Reminds me of Metal gear solid 4, where everyone who owns a gun is injected with nano machines, and they can only activate guns that the nanites allow them too. All the nano machines are controlled by a central AI.

Who says video games can't show interesting reflections on what reality can be.

The case would get to hot.
Would cook the electronics.
But they could chip a gun.

The chips main purpose would be for finding a cache of ammunition not tracking a fired bullet.

Im talking confiscation of weapons and guns scenarios.

Why not try it with the military first?

RFID In Small Arms

I was also thinking that too - the bullet casing would likely stop RFID from working. Or just microwave them first

Don't microwave ammo that would be a very dangerous thing to do.

a unloaded gun would not be dangerous if exposed to microwave energy.

I do think however, weapons could be, but if you are cleaning them well, wouldn't you find the RFID chip in the process....

AR15s have a foam filled plastic stock and that would be a good place to hide a chip.. a small hole drilled into a wood stock and filled with wood fillers. would also hide one.
But if when you stored your guns you wrapped them in foil this would block the signals

If you store your ammo in a military ammo can it will act as a Faraday cage.
and many people store there's that way

Put them in military weapons no way.
All a enemy would have to do is build a land mine with a RFID reader in it and our troops would be toast.
what was the author of the article thinking



[edit on 24-3-2009 by ANNED]

[edit on 24-3-2009 by ANNED]

Yeah there is also a story I can't get a link on about us military Snipers using rfid'd .50 bmg bullets.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere



I really do not want to read what is on the chip but just to know it is there. I was think of some like this
www.wifi-finder.net...
which is for WI-FI but it would be for RFID chips. Without a RFID detector you have to asssume that EVERY thing around you is chipped. I would like to know what is and is not chipped.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by fixer1967
Is there a simple device that can tell you if a RFID chip is near by or not?

RFDump is a backend GPL tool to directly interoperate with any RFID ISO-Reader to make the contents stored on RFID tags accessible. This makes the following types of audits possible:

* Test robustness of data-structures on the reader and the backend-application
* Proof-of-concept manipulations of RFID tag contents
* Clone / copy & paste User-Data stored on RFID tags
* Audit tag-security features

www.rf-dump.org...

This would be fun walking around and blanking RFID tags or even reading RFID tags on trucks and railroad cars and a thief could do a number with something like this.

Some companies use RFID tags to control the security gates at there property some police departments and gated comunties use them too.
www.identity-theft-awareness.com...
news.thomasnet.com...
www.amtel-security.com...

Just walk into a store and copy the RFID reading on a cheap idem and then clone it to a expensive items RFID tag

Or with ammo or weapons just change the RFID reading to read something else non weapons-ammo related or blank it.

Wouldn't placing a chip in a strong magnetic field for a short time render it useless?


Bulk tape erasers anyone?

If you somehow managed to employ RFID Technology onto/into Firearms Ammunition, I fail to see how it would be of any use, or functional for that matter, after you fired the aforementioned Round.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
If you somehow managed to employ RFID Technology onto/into Firearms Ammunition, I fail to see how it would be of any use, or functional for that matter, after you fired the aforementioned Round.

That is not the point. If they pick up 10,000 RFID tags at the same place they know that some one has 10,000 rounds of ammunition stocked piled. All they would have to do to get this info would be to drive up and down the street. Now you say all that driving would cost a ton. Well how many people come to your house on a regular bases? The Mail truck? The power meter reader? The water meter reader? Trash pick up? Pick a RFID reader with GPS in one of them and they could tag every house at very little cost. Forget the tin foil hat, maybe it is time to wrap your ammo in tin foil.

Originally posted by fixer1967

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
If you somehow managed to employ RFID Technology onto/into Firearms Ammunition, I fail to see how it would be of any use, or functional for that matter, after you fired the aforementioned Round.

That is not the point. If they pick up 10,000 RFID tags at the same place they know that some one has 10,000 rounds of ammunition stocked piled. All they would have to do to get this info would be to drive up and down the street. Now you say all that driving would cost a ton. Well how many people come to your house on a regular bases? The Mail truck? The power meter reader? The water meter reader? Trash pick up? Pick a RFID reader with GPS in one of them and they could tag every house at very little cost. Forget the tin foil hat, maybe it is time to wrap your ammo in tin foil.

Yup! And all they would need is one bullet to be "chipped" in your ammo cache then when the time comes for confiscation or post confiscation they will find hidden stockpiles and send ya to a FEMA CAMP haha

[edit on 3/25/2009 by Chaos Lord]

I Personally have considered having my guns chipped, as I had an SKS stolen from my house. It would be handy to know where it ended up...

Of course, I wouldn't have all of them chipped, but having guns stolen sucks.