Obama set to unveil Mexico border drugs/guns plan

Originally posted by Mr. Eustace Haney
im surprised there is not a forum on narcotic conspiracies, i noticed there was one before and now there is not one.

Yeah, they set that up to fail, unfortunately. They made it very clear to disruptive individuals that they would close it if people discussed personal use, and of course those disruptive individuals went right to work and got r done.

reply to post by scoopkill


If you legalize drugs, the drug dealer becomes Wal-Mart and the producers become regular farmers, just like Wal-Mart sells other drugs (alcohol, tobacco, advil, etc.).

reply to post by ChrisF231


Um.. you're citing something that happened where marijuana is illegal as an example of what will happen when marijuana is legal?.. You must've been drinking a bit too much legal booze bro..

Originally posted by RedDragon
If you legalize drugs, the drug dealer becomes Wal-Mart and the producers become regular farmers, just like Wal-Mart sells other drugs (alcohol, tobacco, advil, etc.).

With the exception of MJ, i think it would be a bit extreme to sell drugs at the corner store. I'm thinking more along the lines of facilities where users can go and be high, and not leave until they have come down and are ready to go back into society. I don't think a free for all would be a very good idea, i can imagine there would be MANY people who would go overboard right away and probably hurt others, there needs to be heavy regulation on the more extreme drugs, they can't be infused en masse into a working society. They would need to be a few degrees seperate, IMO.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by delta33
Cut the head off the snake and legalize drugs.

I completely agree with you!!!

It's time for people to believe in personal responsibility again.

That may the only viable solution. The "Los Zetas" of Mexico (most murderous drug cartel in history) basically call the shots right now over the police in Nueva Laredo and Laredo, Texas, which is very concerning. Over 2000 Mexican Troops (some of which were trained in the States), deserted and have already went to work for the Zetas for higher salary. Sending 'more cops and investigators' down there isn't going to get it done. They are now their own para-military group, with technology and weaponry rivaling the army. You're going to need an army to beat them, or legalize drugs.

Originally posted by wonderworld
...................
I think something should be done on the Mexican border but the mention of 9 out of 10 guns being traced to the US is certainly a cause for alarm.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by wonderworld]

By now people should know this is nothing more than a lie, a new excuse to debar the law-abiding Americans of the use of firearms.

Their plan is working perfectly.

Notice that they are also going after brass used to reload ammo, so people won't be able to reload their own ammo, and TPTB can have control over how much, if any ammo Americans can have...

reply to post by RedDragon


I am not against beer, wine or liquor. People are capable of using that responsibily. The ones that arn't capable can be helped and treated.

To put alcohol or tobacco in the same category as heroin and crack is more than rediculous. There is no such thing as responsible heroin and crack use.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


But you're a Cobra Commander. why should we believe a Cobra Commander?

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Greetings everyone,

This is my first time here on ATS, I've been lurking for a while. I love it here and I've been thinking of making an account for a while. Well, here it is.

That being said, Mike I would have to respectfully disagree with you. What reasons do you have to say alcohol and tobacco are different then other ..."harder" drugs? They are not, and should be treated as such. People can "responsibly" use any drug, as well as irresponsibly use any drug, INCLUDING alcohol.

EDIT: Ah, I just found this chart, alcohol is worse physically then many other drugs. Yet, still legal.


faculty.washington.edu...

[edit on 24-3-2009 by free2live]

Originally posted by Neaux
The best way to solve the drug cartel problems in the U.S. and Mexico's killings, is legalize marijuana and place a huge tax on it. Drug cartels would no longer need to bribe people in the Mexican and U.S. government. The U.S. wouldn't need to hemorrhage so much money on the "war on drugs", and the tax money of weed would be a huge influx of cash going into the system. And the kicker of the whole thing is cigarettes are worse to ones health then marijuana.

The real problem is Mexico's government. The only plan that would help the United States' war on drugs without legalizing marijuana is for the U.S. get tough with Mexico. Threaten Mexico to get their act together or we will place tariff's and taxes on it's exported goods. While they are at it demand Mexico help their impoverished. It's not that Mexico can't fix these problems, it's that their government is so corrupt and bought it doesn't get necessary things done.

I have been saying this for years! I do think that if marijuana was legalized it would bring money here. We do need to do something about Mexico. It's getting bad and we basically help their people. They need to help their own people right now.

reply to post by free2live


I have had firsthand experience and I have yet to see where heroin and crack can be used responsibly. I have seen friends and family completely
destroy their lives. Where as tobacco and alcohol can be used responsibly in moderation, there isn't any such moderation for heroin and crack.

Trying to moderately use crack is like trying to moderately drive off a cliff.

[edit on 24/3/09 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by free2live

 

I have had firsthand experience and I have yet to see where heroin and crack can be used responsibly. I have seen friends and family completely
destroy their lives. Where as tobacco and alcohol can be used responsibly in moderation, there isn't any such moderation for heroin and crack.

Trying to moderately use crack is like trying to moderately drive off a cliff.

[edit on 24/3/09 by MikeboydUS]

You are generalizing. I have seen people destroy their lives with alcohol. There are also people out there who are fine using heroin or anything. They are called "functioning addicts". Saying that its impossible to know moderation with heroin or crack is ridiculous and naive.

EDIT for clarification: I am in no way condoning the use of crack and heroin. I'm just making sure that we realize that they ARE in the same category as alcohol, seeing as they are ALL drugs.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by free2live]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


You probably don't have a problem with alcohol because you grew up with it being legal, and it doesn't carry the same stigmatism as drugs do. However alcohol is just as capable of destroying peole's lives as hardcore drugs are.

While it is true that alcohol can be used responsibly, that is not always the case. And for those that can't, like alcoholics, they can not be helped unless they are willing to get the help that they need.

I have first hand experience with alcoholism and have seen friends and family completely destroy their lives, as well as loose them, along with destroying the lives of others.

Just as you say that there is no such thing as responsible use of crack and heroin, there is no such thing as responsible use of alcohol for an alcoholic, sometimes even non alcoholics are incapable of using alcohol responsibly.

How many people are killed every year by drunk drivers ? Aren't their lives gone, aren't the lives of their family members and friends destroyed ? And they didn't even have a problem with alcohol, they just had the misfortune of being on the same road with a drunk driver. How many people are verbally and emotionally abused and physically beaten becasue a spouse, or parent has had too much to drink ?

It's a slippery slope to say that things that cause a person to destroy their lives, career, and family should not be freely available as many things fall into this category, and one of them might just be something that you enjoy responsibly.

reply to post by chise61


I have first hand experience with alcoholics as well. I have seen them destroy their lives and recover from it with help.

Personally I don't care for either tobacco or alcohol, but I cannot compare them to crack and heroin just because they are all drugs. Alcohol can and does destroy lives if abused, but I have never seen it totally consume an alcoholic's life to the point that I have seen heroin, crack, and methamphetamines consume a person.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Specifically, why isn't it possible to use heroin and crack responsibly?

Do you feel the same way about coc aine?

reply to post by free2live


And if you look at it from an individual rights perspective, the only one of those metrics that matters for legalization purposes is the impact on society. In that case, alcohol is far worse than any other drug on the list. Also, I can't help but think that they lumped in crack with coc aine on that chart.

[edit on 3/24/09 by RedDragon]

Originally posted by RedDragon
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Specifically, why isn't it possible to use heroin and crack responsibly?

Do you feel the same way about coc aine?

Also mike, do you feel that incarceration is the correct way to deal with the intake of these substances?

reply to post by MikeboydUS



Would their lives have been as ruined if heroin and coc aine were legal and 1/10th or less the price?

IE They wouldn't have had to associate with violent criminals, they wouldn't have had to steal to support their addiction, and they wouldn't have gotten records that destroy their lives. Instead, they would have just gotten medical treatment if they wanted it.

Also, don't bring up any overdose deaths. Those probably would have been avoided if heroin and crack were legal; when they're illegal, you don't know the potency of the drugs while they're written on the bottle if they're legal. For example, a glass of beer won't even get you (well, me ) buzzed while a glass of everclear will kill you. Since you don't taste heroin and crack, you don't know the potency until after you've already taken them.

Example: Cigarettes, more addictive than heroin. However, not many people steal to support their addiction because cigarettes are dirt cheap as a result of their being legal. They also don't get their lives ruined with jail time and criminal records. They also don't get drawn into other crimes because they don't have to associate with criminals to get their nicotine fix.

If cigarettes were illegal, they would have to steal to support their addictions, they would get jail time and criminal records, and they would have to associate with criminals to get their nicotine fix. Their lives would be destroyed in that system.

[edit on 3/24/09 by RedDragon]

[edit on 3/24/09 by RedDragon]

Originally posted by RedDragon
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Would their lives have been as ruined if heroin and coc aine were legal and 1/10th or less the price?

I was going to mention this, a huge part of the problem is that these things become unaffordable.

We've also hijacked this thread to an extent. Apologies to the OP.

reply to post by free2live


I don't think incarceration of users is the best or most humane way to deal with them. They need medical and psychological treatment.

Dealers on the other hand I have little mercy for.