Should ATS Members have a symbol?

They won't ask for a symbol, they are going to mow down every living being the set eyes on! (Hey, if they're all dead you don't have to worry.

These are the truest words I've read in a while. If only the SHTFers had the best interests of other human beings at heart it wouldn't be half as bad - a part of me knows a lot of them want things to go bad so they can live their little fantasy. Also I'm sure a lot of ambitions of power, replacing TPTB which a lot of us want, yet installing something equally as bad in the process.

Originally posted by Tentickles
Okay, I'm a Survivalist. All you need to know is this symbol. It's our flag.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/331f5e6a7abf.png[/atsimg]

Anyone with Survival Knowledge in a STiX SHTF situation will have some variation of this.

FYI: If you see this, there will be a few guns. Be prepared.

Could you possibly make this post any more Ameri-centric? Survivalist flag? How is a Gadsden flag, one used by American Marines and one originally linked to anti-British ideology, a survivalist flag? Or is this typical Ameri-centric thinking where America somehow equates with the world?

Anyone with Survival Knowledge in a STiX SHTF situation will have some variation of this.

Really? Anyone? Christ on a bike!

simple, wear an ATS shirt

i declare this a second line!!

o.k.

I have reconsidered my stance on this topic...


I have contacted a person on "the in" and I was informed that if I sing I'm a Little Tea Pot and dance while doing this, I may be allowed into "the club"...






chapter:

I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, hear me shout
Just tip me over and pour me out!


I'm a clever teapot, yes it's true
Here's an example of what I can do
I can change my handle to my spout
Just tip me over and pour me out

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1ad66ca754d0.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by x187x



It couldn't be anything like a shirt could it? Anyone can get a shirt.It would have to be a unique way of scraching your head or something. Si no?

If we take on a symbol, it will just make it easier for the NWO gestapo to hunt us down and lock us in FEAM camps. If you want to risk it, go for it but i will not be a part of this.

TheAssociate

reply to post by Merriman Weir


The idea behind a Colonial Militia’s banner being used as a survivalist banner is a separate issue from the ATS thing that you guys are talking about.


Try not to take offense it’s not meant as an Anti-British thing.


As you probably know it represents the common man standing up for his rights and country against an oppressive government that no longer has the consent of the people to tax them due to the lack of representation in Parliament. It harkens to a time when Americans would rally around such a cause and is meant to arouse those sentiments and patriotism again.


Also many Militiamen were rugged outdoor types from the country side that fought a guerilla war against the English in some areas. This is part of the reason why it holds a place for American Survivalist (many are involved in modern day militias) and ARE SURVIVALIST.


Regardless of your country of origin (if interpreted properly) you should harbor no animus towards this flag. It should actually bring out a drive to fight oppression and tyranny. Unless of course you are of the opinion that the Colonies were in the wrong and should have continued to be ruled over and excessively taxed without any say in their government what so ever???????

In any event unless you’re a tyrannical king/Parliament it’s no biggie.


But you wouldn't want to appear at all nationalistic....

But you sure can insult Christians and it's aok...

Really? Anyone? Christ on a bike!

That's the bad thing about ATS, You can be pro Muslim, Jewish, ect. Or Pro French, British, Canadian,ect. and it seems to be ok.

It also seems to be OK if your ANTI-AMERICAN or a CHRIST basher. However, if you show any American pride or show yourself to be a Christian you are Immediately pounced upon buy some EUROCENTRIC, SELF LOATHING, ATHEIST OR CHRISTIAN BASHER. Or what have you. GOD forbid an American puts forth an opinion that isn’t left enough (i.e. anti-American and Atheist in its rhetoric) you people jump on it with gusto and vigor so lofty on your high horse.

I’m sick of it, and for the mod that will most certainly bash me like I know you will this section of my post is for you too so soak it up.
You mods get on people about bashing people and being anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic yet you allow for Christians to be ostracized on a regular basis. Impartiality is all that one asks for. I hate it in any direction, but you people need to stop showing favoritism.

Yeah, I’m well off topic but it was bound to boil over somewhere so here you go.


[edit on 29-3-2009 by lazy1981]

[edit on 29-3-2009 by lazy1981]

My first thought was like a nice virulent minty green ALL-SEEING-EYE patch, something too toxic in its coloration to be verdadero Masonic...
And then my next thought was a similar sew-on patch, but showing a livid-looking OCTOPUS...
But then my last thought was, that we should all just file our teeth (for sharp, rather than towards flat, I think)...That would be immediately distinctive, and require a certain level of commitment and intensity, so as to weed out lukewarm vegetables...
And besides which, gosh darn it, I just think FILED TEETH LOOK GOOD...

reply to post by CherryDuck


It would seem that a symbol would lead to greater identification ... You may be right.... Maybe the Star of David???

Oh that was used during the Jewish round-up...

Let me think...

Thanks a lot everyone for everything you've all said. Thanks to the people who said that they wouldn't do this, and GAVE reasons!! I never thought of it this way! It would be seen as a way to possibly "round us up", lol. Maybe we could come up with a more subtle way. Then again i'm sure there's a few government high ups that frequent these forums

Cherry

We won't need a symbol when we all meet inside the International Space Station just moments before all life on Earth is annihilated.

Then when we all realize that all life on Earth has been annihilated we will divide ourselves and begin to fight for control of the barren Earth.

Originally posted by lazy1981
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

The idea behind a Colonial Militia’s banner being used as a survivalist banner is a separate issue from the ATS thing that you guys are talking about. Try not to take offense it’s not meant as an Anti-British thing.

It's not a wholly separate issue though is it? It's a flag/symbol/ideology that arose out of the conflict with Great Britain. That's how it came to exist - that's undeniable. As is, much of the rhetoric about the American constitution that permeates these forums, which is built from much the same clay.

As you probably know it represents the common man standing up for his rights and country against an oppressive government that no longer has the consent of the people to tax them due to the lack of representation in Parliament.

The common American man fighting against a British parliament. I know all this as not only from history books, but I see the rhetoric get played out often enough anywhere where Americans post on the internet. No offence, but I'm finding your attempt to neutralise history pretty strange. This kind of revisionism might get you a scripting gig for the sequel to U-571.

It harkens to a time when Americans would rally around such a cause and is meant to arouse those sentiments and patriotism again.

Bingo! Who was doing the rallying? Whose patriotism exactly? How does any of that reflect an international survival community? What does this flag mean to other countries?

Also many Militiamen were rugged outdoor types from the country side that fought a guerilla war against the English in some areas. This is part of the reason why it holds a place for American Survivalist (many are involved in modern day militias) and ARE SURVIVALIST.

Regardless of your country of origin (if interpreted properly) you should harbor no animus towards this flag. It should actually bring out a drive to fight oppression and tyranny. Unless of course you are of the opinion that the Colonies were in the wrong and should have continued to be ruled over and excessively taxed without any say in their government what so ever???????

What, so a flag used by a enemy of the British should be adopted by the British to symbolise the fight of those enemies of the British? Whether or not I think the colonies were right or wrong - it's all academic and after the fact - is immaterial, I'm just pointing out that history isn't what you're trying to make it.

You really can't see it, can you?

In any event unless you’re a tyrannical king/Parliament it’s no biggie.

But you wouldn't want to appear at all nationalistic....

No, I'm not a "tyrannical king" nor a member of parliament. See, this is where you, as an American has difficulty seeing another perspective. To you, King George was a 'tyrant'. Not a King that was struggling to raise revenue because of years and years of threats to Britain from the French (don't forget, that for several hundred years Britain was constantly under the threat of invasion from the French, the Spanish and even the Dutch). No, the American take on it is "tyrant".

This really just illustrates why I post what you perceive as being ANTI-AMERICAN. It's because so much of what happens on these boards is Ameri-centric: it's the American view that is proffered as the right view.

But you sure can insult Christians and it's aok...

That's the bad thing about ATS, You can be pro Muslim, Jewish, ect. Or Pro French, British, Canadian,ect. and it seems to be ok.

It also seems to be OK if your ANTI-AMERICAN or a CHRIST basher.

But why shouldn't I be "ANTI-AMERICAN"? It's bizarre that you seem to rally and support a flag that went against British imperialism and oppression and was 'tyrannical' (to use your own word) - and in the minds of quite a few American posters on here, that attitude isn't necessarily historical either, some still seem to think it's the 1700s - yet when someone else get angry with America's current place in the world and its attitude towards the rest of the world, it's somehow wrong?

America has, for various reasons, been the dominant super-power over the last few decades. A lot of people, American and non-American acknowledge that there's a lot about America's position that is pretty unsavoury and not that different from any crimes of the British Empire; from the spreading of cultural imperialism, resource grabbing, colouring in maps (how many countries across the world have U.S. military bases?) and so on. This is happening now, not a couple of hundred years ago. If Americans want to wave a flag along with the "USA #1 OK!" rhetoric, they can't expect to only get praise and applause. Invariably, as every other empire has found out, all this comes with a cost.

Also, for the record my posts actually demonstrate that any "ANTI-AMERICAN" thinking is usually as a response to someone else's posts. That I'm very rarely pro-active with any of this should tell you something.

However, if you show any American pride or show yourself to be a Christian you are Immediately pounced upon buy some EUROCENTRIC,

How am I "EUROCENTRIC"? Can you only think in binary forms? I'm "ANTI-AMERICAN" so therefore I'm EUROCENTRIC? I'm not the one who appears in ATS threads automatically assuming that posts or situations are about EUROPE (does this only work in caps?) rather than actually reading the threads or posts. I'm not the one who assumes an international community will reflect the view of the country where I happen to live. I'm not the one who peppers their posts with 'MY COUNTRY IS THE BEST' 'MY COUNTRY = #1!!!' and, my favourite 'HATERS OF MY COUNTRY ARE JUST JEALOUS!!1'.

If anything, I'm as critical of my own country as I am of America.

So, is this a strawman, or is this about some other poster(s)? If so, take your issues to them!

SELF LOATHING,

Where did you pull this particular piece of ad hominem from?

ATHEIST

No, I'm not atheist. However, because I don't go around trying to shoehorn my beliefs into as many posts as possible and keep it to myself, my beliefs are rarely issue enough for atheists to be able to take issue in the first place.

OR CHRISTIAN BASHER. Or what have you. GOD forbid an American puts forth an opinion that isn’t left enough (i.e. anti-American and Atheist in its rhetoric) you people jump on it with gusto and vigor so lofty on your high horse.

Bizarrely, I've actually spoken out in defence of Christianity and some parts of Christian culture on these boards. In fact, I'd go as far as to say (and I think I have done so on these boards in the past) that I hold a lot of admiration for a couple of Christian denomination.

I don't have a problem with people believing in Christianity - as I've said several times here - it would be bizarrely hypocritical to object to the idea of someone else's supernatural beliefs. It's the out-and-out, intrusive evangelism that I struggle to tolerate.

I’m sick of it, and for the mod that will most certainly bash me like I know you will this section of my post is for you too so soak it up.
You mods get on people about bashing people and being anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic yet you allow for Christians to be ostracized on a regular basis. Impartiality is all that one asks for. I hate it in any direction, but you people need to stop showing favoritism.

At the same time, I rarely see a moderator pull a Christian for evangelising or denouncing or chastising non-believers and sinners in a thread through some very specious and spurious connection to a thread.

I'm not sure how Christians can be ostracised on these boards to be honest. They are a very tight-knit clique on these boards who tend to rally to each other's threads when it's genuinely necessary. The stars and the flagging system actually illustrate this.

Yeah, I’m well off topic but it was bound to boil over somewhere so here you go.

I hope your spleen is vented now. I wouldn't worry about my views too much. As a whole, ATS is incredibly Ameri-centric and this is reflected in the fact that far more posts and threads are about America and are created by Americans. Any views that I hold are generally minority views (although that doesn't necessarily make them wrong) and are generally massively out-numbered by pro-American and pro-Religious Right rhetoric.

Why leads me to wonder just what is the problem then? Any criticism is too much criticism?

I have a symbol I use, it has a long history with me and my friends know it but I dont spread it around. Maybe I will later. But if you're looking for an ATS one I would agree in just having a shirt or something with the logo.

Originally posted by lazy1981
Regardless of your country of origin (if interpreted properly) you should harbor no animus towards this flag.

Really, I thought it was a white supremist flag. I see them use it before.

That's the bad thing about ATS, You can be pro Muslim, Jewish, ect. Or Pro French, British, Canadian,ect. and it seems to be ok.

It also seems to be OK if your ANTI-AMERICAN or a CHRIST basher. However, if you show any American pride or show yourself to be a Christian you are Immediately pounced upon buy some EUROCENTRIC, SELF LOATHING, ATHEIST OR CHRISTIAN BASHER. Or what have you. GOD forbid an American puts forth an opinion that isn’t left enough (i.e. anti-American and Atheist in its rhetoric) you people jump on it with gusto and vigor so lofty on your high horse.

I dont know who 'you people' is but Im sure they could say the same about you and your high horse. Especially as you're on an off topic tirade...

I’m sick of it, and for the mod that will most certainly bash me like I know you will this section of my post is for you too so soak it up.
You mods get on people about bashing people and being anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic yet you allow for Christians to be ostracized on a regular basis. Impartiality is all that one asks for. I hate it in any direction, but you people need to stop showing favoritism.

But its not really the same, there are people everywhere equating Jews with Zionists and saying how they all should be killed horribly, or how all Muslims are terrorists and should be shot, and people who say atheists are wastes of space and so forth. I have not yet seen any person saying '[snip] Jesus' or 'you guys suck', mostly just pointing out flaws in Christianity, in which there are many. I personally think it is truly ignorant to follow any church or religion, but that it is wonderful to follow in Jesus' path. Beliefs are dangerous, actions speak for themselves.



Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors

[edit on 29-3-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

which is built from much the same clay.

Indeed our Constitution is molded from much of the same clay. You can also throw in some Athenian Democracy, Spartan Checks and Balances, but most of all it was modeled as a Roman Republic. It is guaranteed to be a Republic under Article 4 , Sec. 4 if you have a desire to check it out.

No offence, but I'm finding your attempt to neutralise history pretty strange.

No nutralizing, just telling it like it is.

Maybe having your outlying settlements vulnerable and unprotected from attack by the Indians that were incited by the French. All the while paying for an English armed force half way around the globe.

Or maybe being forced to give quarter to an occupying force?

This doesn't sound much like history at all to you does it????

Bingo! Who was doing the rallying? Whose patriotism exactly? How does any of that reflect an international survival community? What does this flag mean to other countries?

If I must answer rhetorical questions!

Patriots of an Independent American Nation, with the right of self determination where doing the rallying. (i.e. Colonial Patriotism, patriotism against oppression)

It doesn't reflect "an international survival community." I was merely explaining the history and relevance that it holds today (unless you didn't notice).

I can only speculate here. But I gather that he is also of the opinion that this flag represents the population of a country standing up for what they believe to be right and true. That the common man has the right to guide their own destiny and has a right to use force to obtain their rights from a usurpatory government.

But one can only assume what the flag should mean to a person from another country (if they tried to put themselves in a Colonist's shoes). I think that this was the aim of his posting that flag, not a slight towards a Brit.

What, so a flag used by a enemy of the British should be adopted by the British to symbolise the fight of those enemies of the British?

Well I would hope that you are presenting the notion that we were once past enemies?

And that would only be due to the fact that Parliament and the King would not bend an ear to the plea's of their "subjects" that they wished to rule.

Other than that, America and England seem to be the best of friends as of late don't you say????? Brits still speak English OK. Could have been German, or Russian!

I'm just pointing out that history isn't what you're trying to make it.

There are two sides to every story, and I am fully aware that history is written by the victors. Britain wasn't entirely "bad" but you would have to say they were the equivalent of a neglectful and abusive father on a farm. He wanted his kids to put forth all that daddy needed yet failed to produce the essentials. And when the kiddies mouthed off they got a good "wallop," eh. Well this time the kids picked up a shovel.

See, this is where you, as an American has difficulty seeing another perspective.

See, this is where "you" as an ( ) are a base stereo typer.

I have no problem seeing another persons perspective. If it's presented in a factual manner, and not from a point of view that assumes the position of disdain for any group or country from the onset with no real cause.

I actually love to hear other peoples point of view (believe it or not)

But I'm an "AMERICAN" (I think it does only work in caps) so I guess your right. Americans can't see any view point other than their own, right?

Nobody has a prejudice here, right......

To you, King George was a 'tyrant'. Not a King that was struggling to raise revenue because of years and years of threats to Britain from the French (don't forget, that for several hundred years Britain was constantly under the threat of invasion from the French, the Spanish and even the Dutch). No, the American take on it is "tyrant".

The Colonies had no protection given by the Crown as I have already illustrated. Furthermore, the taxes levied by the Crown were not proportionate to the taxes levied in England and elsewhere. Many times they were punitive. And if that were not enough the colonist had no representation to which they could argue their case with. No conduit or proper channel by which they could claim a grievance. Issues fell upon deaf ears, least there be the threat of revolt in some form or another.

After all they were mainly displaced Englishmen. Even for the time the Colonial peoples were treated as just that (indigenous peoples of a colony) when they were actually transplanted Englishmen (for the most part, some Dutch) that should have been afforded rights and representation by right of birth. And that was all that they were asking for.

Since the Colonist had no representation or protections under the Crown then why is it any concern of theirs if France or the Netherlands invades a country that ignores them accept for taxation. The Colonies didn't create the ancient enmities that were harbored in Europe, that they should be concerned with such things.

George lll was a tyrant due to the fact that he wanted much from his "subjects" and gave very little in return if anything at all. Not just for the fact that he was a King as you would paint me.

resource grabbing, colouring in maps (how many countries across the world have U.S. military bases?) and so on.

We were paying upwards of $4.00 a gallon and higher in the States not too long ago until OPEC decided that they were going to pump more oil so I don't see where you see us grabbing resources. The rhetoric hat was coming from the neo-fascist that got us into the Iraq War was that the Iraqi oil was to pay for the war itself. We never seen a drop. So your sadly mistaken. That was corporatism and corruption at it's best for you.

Many of those bases are left over from WW2. Brits speak English and Frenh speak French. A simple thank you America will suffice. Other bases ar from the cold war. Germans speak German and not Russian. A simple thanks America will suffice. Get the point. I agree that the bases should have been pulled a long time ago, hey go figure we actually agree. But you assumed otherwise.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

If Americans want to wave a flag along with the "USA #1 OK!" rhetoric, they can't expect to only get praise and applause.

So it's ok for eveyone else to have national pride accept for an American. OK, I get it.

And it's really just a recent development that Americans show such pride (as you describe) 9/11 was sort of a unifying event. It insighted a bit of pride in our countrymen, that we all pulled together so well in a time of crisis. We thought that that sort of patriotism was all but dead.

But, if you can't understand that then that's your opinion. Have at it.

How am I "EUROCENTRIC"? Can you only think in binary forms? I'm "ANTI-AMERICAN" so therefore I'm EUROCENTRIC?

It's just the old norse writing in your avatar that leads me to that conclusion.

I'm not the one who appears in ATS threads automatically assuming that posts or situations are about EUROPE (does this only work in caps?) rather than actually reading the threads or posts.

Never did that, ever.

My rant (however unnecessary as it may have been, I see this in hind sight) and use of the word Euro centric was meant to illustrate a point, for if I said Afrocentric or any other direction I most assuredly would have been labeled a racist by some one. It was an arbitrary starting point in order to make a point.

I'm not the one who peppers their posts with 'MY COUNTRY IS THE BEST' 'MY COUNTRY = #1!!!' and, my favourite 'HATERS OF MY COUNTRY ARE JUST JEALOUS!!1'.

My my my, are we really showing our true colors here!????? Stereotyper......

Unless I am entirely mistaken, I have never used any of those statements nor do I believe them. Save one. And that's just a matter of opinion, so it matters not, in any even.

Actually I'm not critical of my country at all, that's the diferance between a patriot and people like yourself. You have no loyalty to your countrymen.

I am extremely critical of my GOVERNMENT. Never my country.

So, is this a strawman, or is this about some other poster(s)?

It's actually about a great many posters, your coments just seemed to push me over. My apologies, I should not have blown up. I do mean that.

Where did you pull this particular piece of ad hominem from?

Well, there are a great many people that take the blame of past generations upon themselves, and also chose to heap said blame onto unassuming others. Do you understand? They usually fall into that demographic that I laid out. I guess that this was my little bit of assumpyion and stereotyping.

No, I'm not atheist. However, because I don't go around trying to shoehorn my beliefs into as many posts as possible and keep it to myself, my beliefs are rarely issue enough for atheists to be able to take issue in the first place.

I concure, I just took the "Christ on a bike!"thing as being derogatory.

It's the out-and-out, intrusive evangelism that I struggle to tolerate.

We find ourselves most readily agreeable on this issue.

Any views that I hold are generally minority views (although that doesn't necessarily make them wrong) and are generally massively out-numbered by pro-American and pro-Religious Right rhetoric.

I find more Pro-Muslim Rhetoric and Christian Bashing than anything else. Believe it or not. We must frequent different topics of interest. It's really the thing that if a person shows an area in the Talmud or Zohar where there is anti- Christian Rhetoric they are labeled Anti-Semitic off the bat.

If there are people talking about an Islamic issue then Christians that give an opinion are usually bashed and the rest of the people are left alone. And if a Christian trys to show the Muslim Violence int he Koran or something to that affect they are quickly put down for being an Islamophobe.

Usually I sit back and keep my religious views to myself, it's just been an ongoing thing and I took your comment out of context. But I generally see Christianity getting a thorough beating, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Any criticism is too much criticism?

No I enjoy a logical debate, the loss of reason was mine this time. My sincere apologies. I should not have taken such a combative stance.

[edit on 29-3-2009 by lazy1981]

I vote we just form an A, a T, and an S with our arms above our heads like the Village people and that should pretty much take care of the universal langauge barrier as long as you have had some sort of exposure to pop culture in the last 25 years. It'd be like gang signs for suvivalist.

Merriman Weir and Lazy1981 much as your conversation has been very interesting I think you are now going more than a little bit off topic. Even so here is my input to your discussion, I find posts on here to be in general anti-jew and christian and pro-muslim and America. My view take it, leave it, ignore it or whatever. (Oh yeh and that flag is anti-nonamericans really you'll just scare people off with it).

Right now for the actual topic at hand. Although the idea of a symbol may be a good idea with which to identify each other may be a good thing if you think about it logically there are roughly 160,000 accounts on here of which just only half are active. This makes the chances of meeting another member rather slim (unless you are in the deserts and hill in America in which case there will probably be hundreds ) which means that if you meet a stranger and make that sign they are more likely to think your nuts and kill you in case you are dangerous than they are to be another member.

Also this is a public forum. Therefore this can be looked in upon from all members of the outside world so if we agree on a symbol on here it will make it very easy for us to be rounded up if that is the type of sitx that happens. If you are going to have a symbol try arranging it more privately by e-mail for example. Or better still try and meet and get to know any other ATSers and people with plans for survival in your area. This way you know who you can trust before the event occurs. Also a problem with a hand signal or whatever instead of a physical one like a flag or badge is that a person may just mimic anyway rather than look like an outsider.

Don't get me wrong Cherry I think it is a good idea that you have come up with its just that I am not entirely sure how well it would work. Maybe you would like to contact some other Australian ATSers (you are Australian right) in private instead of on here. As for British ones out there don't bother with me. My head is to fuzzy to plan that carefully.

-Cauch1