It's Time...

Originally posted by djon01
Thomas Jefferson once said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
Well me personally, i'll give the American people one last chance before i get too upset, but if we're still headed in this direction in another four years I'll do my best to instigate a situation where the tree IS refreshed, if you catch my drift.

Drift caught, and he mentioned something about once every generation. If we had heeded this, the bankers he spoke of then would not have been able to control the world as they are now. Why has the US been the 'world's policeman' and what have they been enforcing. Please look up General Smedley Butler (War is a Racket) if you want to understand how the bankers have taken over. They view you as serfs, and the reason they are getting their bonuses anyway is because they've done such a good job at what was intended--this 'crash' is orchestrated and planned. They laugh at you all the way from the bank.

reply to post by spiritwomyn



You seem like a nice, well intentioned person. But you have to accept that religion - organized religion - is being used to distract, divide and deceive.

For myself the reason I have rejected the theology and mythology of the bible is because I internalized the ethics of Jesus as presented in the gospels so thoroughly. Of course the Jesus in the book of Revelation is just as blood thirsty and hyper violent as Yahweh in the OT. Kill 'em all!!! All the bad people, that is all the people that don't believe like we do.

So yeah it would be nice but the reality is that we need to get religion out of policy and politics.

The USA has pissed away 30 years arguing over religion based distractions like abortion and "family" values while the elites that produced that sideshow have raped this nation. God, Guns and Gays divides us so that the monied elites can conquor.

Like the religious end timers, another group that are prevalent here and who does nothing to help the situation are the survivalists. "Load up on ammo boys!" Like the End Timers you folks are looking forward to things getting worse because it fits in with your desire to stop being kicked around come out on top.

Either or both the religious end timers and the militant survivalists might be right - who knows and we'll see. But you do nothing to make the future better when you think there isn't one. You do nothing to help the rest of us find answers because in your heart you'd rather it all went to hell.

I do not beleive evil begets evil i have been the victim of so much and i couldnt be more different and better off than my abusers.
i beleive that if we spent as much time and energy on focusing on how we can change the world as we do not beleiving it we would be so much better off already.
one idea i've always had is that if everyone in the world withdrew their money and burnt it, in hours the worlds elite masters would lose everything its a sad world we created by allowing paper with print and yellow metal decide life and death of everything.
mankind has always had its flaws and theres escaping it but you have a choice to be the difference and example to lead and inspire others, by the way i live little over 20 miles from where the rothschild main residency is outside london i know what your thinking and yes im still considering it.
i would rather die on my feet than live on my knees in their world, one thing im starting here is my own zeitgeist style movement to wake people up inspired by many great americans i admire theres very few people here in the u.k that are like you guys over there.
and like ron paul i will fight it politcally and publically and have told my family that i will not live long, i'll do my bit here and you'll here my name eventually im fighting the good fight from this end.

reply to post by Odessy


SELF RESPONSIBILITY is the key to freedom.
SPIRITUALILTY is the way of life.
Until we learn who we truely are and what is our purpose in life we will never be free.

America Eats It's Own. Plain and simple. It's so sad to see our gov't hurt it's own people. They poison our food, Give us contaminated vaccines full of mercury, Poison our minds and keep us scarred of the world. We need to use our rights NOW and start taking action NOW, before our rights are gone and it becomes too late. I think what we have to do is pretty clear. Think and you'll see how simple our survival can be.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by HereBy1]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029
Your community telling you to STFU because they think you're a crazy is all that will ever happen. Most Americans love their cozy(not so much at the moment) little lives and will do nothing to change it, they give the power to our new celebrity president(has their ever been any other president on Leno or some other media show that big?). There is going to have to be something BIG... I don't think peace will solve this* We are going to need something like a WW3 or alien attack(not to sound cliche or crazy[it could happen] but something like the movie Independence Day), or asteroid, or virus(zombie-esque), something like that which will make the world unite, if only for awhile. I'm going to contradict myself but peace could only solve it if the people(a lot more than the number you could get to do what you're trying to do) were to almost give up their 'normal' lives.

*Also, you were talking of showing our gov't we don't need them... we DO need some type of government. The whole US can't just shun them off. They have no more power, they would dissolve, we would lose our military, and we would be open for attack and we would be gone in an instant... I believe that's a big part of a revolution, you need a government and our government is the problem, so we need to overthrow ours and start over like in 1776. If we are a peaceful nation we will be taken over in an instant and the liberties(what few you still have) may even be taken away.

This is my opinion though. I know it's a touchy subject and everyone has their own opinions so nobody can ever be right. I have thought about this many a time and have hoped it would happen but I have no idea where to start.



[edit on 21-3-2009 by Bassman86]

FREEDOM is my War Cry!!! We need to unite and understand that the gov't keeps us in a little box. Currency is what controls us. Without it, we would not have to work and live these controlled lives. WE work for money and then waste it on what we need to survive. It's a vicious cycle.

Sorry if someone already suggested this...

I propose we make preparations to simultaneously secede as individuals who work together in a new society, apart from the one made up and controlled by international bankers. This, of course, would need probably years of planning to implement on a large scale, but is already happening on smaller ones. Sustainability is a MUST.

I also propose that we learn an alternative to land ownership. The earth is our commons, and we must preserve it together, or lose it apart. Everyone lives on the earth, shouldn't everyone own it?

We also need currency reform, as right now we have 'fake' or 'fiat' money. Our money needs to be backed by labor, or something tangible(gold is too limited, and able to be manipulated easily - especially with the current owners of large amounts).

I realize these sound very idealistic, but how far off are they from the constitution? To accomplish these goals, I suggest fellow ATS'ers start to engage in light, but serious, discussions with loved ones and friends, like this discussion.

The next step, is to organize summits, or meetings to determine alternate ways of living, or fueling a sustainable society. I just had a 'summit' together with my family and friends on my spring break this past week, and honestly people are getting ready and serious about these things. Take notes, keep an open mind, work through problems, don't be stubborn, ease your way into these things - but keep at it. I get the feeling we are farther along than we know...

Online summits and meetings like this thread help to increase and maintain momentum.
SnF


P.S. - We should stop caring so much about changing the minds of our government officials and public figures. That will come. What will they do if the ground is swept out from underneath them? They will fall on their ass. Change comes from within.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by beebs]

This may have some info on who runs our gov't, BUT I'm a little skeptical on weather to believe this or not...

www15.ocn.ne.jp...

The guy must be dead. He hasn't posted since 2007.

This is one of the toughest posts I probably ever written but I'll try to give a possible, no, guaranteed solution:

*It starts with in God we Trust: (/trust in your higher self)*

For those of you that have a problem with the concept of God look at it not as a singular person but as a collective, unified in harmony and thought. Possible on earth too.

God gave us a key ability and that is to "Follow our hearts". That is where the God spark is. Those in tune with their hearts realise very quickly what is right and wrong. Along with an uncorrupted mind it is your instinct mechanism!

Close to following the heart comes the nurturing of the human spirit, this is currently under threat and it is the human spirit that is slowly being controlled and manipulated......THIS IS WRONG and goes against the grain of what resonates within us. Realisation of this begs the question who is responsible? In short we and greed are. The problem is greed has run riot and led to huge corporations whom the government (initially appointed as a voice by the people) are protecting. Ie they are protecting THE SYSTEM OF SUPPLY OF NEED AND GREED.

This has resulted in a vicious circle that has led to what we see today which includes a very sterile and repetitive high street. Very boring indeed!

Capitalism was created to meet the needs and enable people to live freer and easier. What we have forgotten is why we need the free time in the first place which was literally TO BE FREE. Freedom is unfortunately not really understood and really needs to be RE-EMPHASISED. A side issue here is that freedoms are watered down if you try and please all the people all of the time, something perhaps we can discuss further?

So to reiterate we have THE HEART, THE MIND, GREED, THE SYSTEM TO MEET OUR NEEDS, OUR VOICE (currently the governments of the world), AND OUR SPIRITUALITY OR HUMAN SPIRIT.

To succeed we need to address one problem at a time, so because we need to eat, be clothed and need to get from A to B I'm going to address THE SYSTEM OF SUPPLY.

*Supply*

The number one issue is that the greater our need for a product or service the more power we give to the establishment that provides that product or service. Now because of the nature of capitalism a company’s main goal is to make more money for its shareholders THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED and leads to abuse, control and manipulation. Advertising (a key aspect of business) is a demon, we're not stupid and know what we need and when. Advertising leads to an EGOTISTICAL type mentality that is cluttering our high streets and lives with the wrong type of information. This aspect of society is OUT OF CONTROL and akin to a motion with NO DRIVER, understand it JUST IS and is a spin off of supply and capitalism.
But IT NEEDS FIXING or at the very least guided.

*Fixing the supply problem*

I don't profess to know all but I know enough to say.......

1. Create a law for the redistribution of cooperate wealth and focus the monies on what is MORALLY RIGHT (again to be re-established) and which meets the needs of what I discussed above ie the solution resonates with us. Simple right? Simplicity always works best imho.

2. CAP company earnings based on either net profit or turnover. Say 5 million for the sake of argument. BP and similar companies making BILLIONS is simply CRAZY.

3. The government or people need to systematically claim ownership of a company (thereby changing and replacing the current system of share ownership) in the form of having a voice for a given company's direction.

4. The government or people need to end the need for a 5 day working week. 4 days is more than adequate and the extra day of entertaining oneself will create more employment if not full employment.

5. A new political system to be designed that meets the peoples needs and nurtures the human spirit and the freedoms that come with this.

6. Control the output of ADVERTISING is steers people for the wrong reasons. Replace it instead with information we need or like.

*SO HOW / WHERE DO WE START?*

- PRINT THIS THREAD OFF use it to help others understand what needs fixing. REMEMBER this government is scared of change so approach them cautiously if they don't listen only then resort to strong arm tactics. HELP THEM UNDERSTAND! They are only human.

- CONVINCE BILL GATES he can add great momentum to the cause, I will start by emailing him this post, you should try something similar.

- USE TECHNOLOGY The technical revolution is not an accident it is there to facilitate our evolution. SO USE IT

- HAVE A COMMITTED FOCAL POINT Where like minds can "converge" ATS is already doing this but it’s important this happens at a physical level in your community.

- NETWORK - The focus is on you to DO SOMETHING, be constructive use your imagination to get the attention you need to EFFECT CHANGE.

- THIS IS IMPORTANT - Never forget this, we are the soldiers of our history, we are at the crest of a wave, we stand on the shoulders of giants. DON'T PASS THE BUCK or think you don't count if you're not happy ACTION should be your number one priority. DO NOT DENY YOURSELF HAPPINESS or resign to accepting the status quo, this is LAZYNESS.

- ACTION - Once you have a network in place do something to GET NOTICED.........ANYTHING JUST GET NOTICED. Don't worry about fear or ridicule you're a soldier on a quest remember so act like one !!!!! When you are noticed make sure you have a clear message, choose any identified aspect of what needs fixing and BE SPECIFIC in describing the reason for you drastic/noticeable/amusing/powerful actions. If you get the media’s attention then all the better.

Do this and the solutions will quickly present themselves, I promise you.

The system needs to collapse.

Yes, it would be nice if us Americans could reach some level of cooperation and work together for the common good, but the game has been going on for far to long and I'm afraid it's too late to stop it now. The powers that control this country and this world will not give up so easily. Think of the massive amount of conditioning throughout human history. We feel small and have come to depend on government and religion to guide our every move. We have been severely mislead and we are so far off the path that it seems hopeless. It is going to take a catastrophic event for the majority of Americans to seriously take their grievances to the government and throw them out on their arses. It's gonna be a bloody mess.

But,

I suggest you follow your own path.
Love your fellow man no matter what.
Be right with yourself and your loved ones.
Embrace the need for man to enter Type 1 Civilization.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
The reason we have a class system in every single political system that man has ever created is because of scarcity. There's really no getting around this unless you're espousing Marxism. Even if you create a new government built on Marxist ideology it's doomed to fail because of human nature and greed as it relates to scarcity.

People really need to understand how scarcity intrinsically implies a class system and how all systems of government fundamentally inherit this structure.



[edit on 20-3-2009 by Xtraeme]

sounds like you believe greed is ok and part of human nature. You don't believe we could ever have a world where greed doesn't exist or is looked down upon? Why must greed have to always be coupled with human nature? It is a myth that it is human nature to be greedy. If one person isn't greedy then it is possible for another person to not be greedy and so on and so on. How we change greed to generosity. Imagine is as many people someday were generous as there are greedy people now. What kind of world do you think we would have then? Let's call a spade a spade. When someone is being greedy or driven by greed we should treat them as if they are openly slicing children's throats in the streets. We look down on that and think it is horrendous and unthinkable and certainly unacceptable. Let's do it. Encourage generosity by looking up to it and discourage greed by looking down on it. Get rid of greed, get rid of evil. Share everything. Take pleasure in another's good fortune and they will take pleasure in yours. True equality, not forced equality but chosen and realized equality. No one is better than anyone else. We can still be individuals and be appreciated for our own individual talents and gifts but no one will be declared to better than anyone else. Not the same but appreciated individually. If you think greed is good then ask yourself why. The answer will not lead you to a "good" place. It will only lead to the darker places of the human soul. We have lived in the dark too long. Now is the time for light. The light of truth and the feeling of all this weight lifting. If all of the things that made you miserable were suddenly gone tomorrow and would never come back wouldn't you feel lighter? Imagine us all feeling that happy and that relieved.

I dont think any thing we do will matter at this point. Some of you are right, its too late , they are too powerful and too many people will not wake up till they are hit in the face with the fist of reality. And by then, forget it, were done.
I have said it before, Im the only one in my family that thinks this way, everyone else thinks it will get better. I cant fight them , if I do, Ill loose my wife. I have already lost my side of the family, they just wont listen.

Originally posted by Anubis3.14
I dont think any thing we do will matter at this point. Some of you are right, its too late , they are too powerful and too many people will not wake up till they are hit in the face with the fist of reality. And by then, forget it, were done.
I have said it before, Im the only one in my family that thinks this way, everyone else thinks it will get better. I cant fight them , if I do, Ill loose my wife. I have already lost my side of the family, they just wont listen.

This is the truth.

This is our sad reality as Americans.

We are comfort creatures... and if idea takes us out of our comfort zone, we are opposed to it.

The other day somebody told me that "WARS are good". It's so easy to say that when you live in America. Maybe he will think differently if America doesn't win.

]Originally posted by catseyequeen

It is a myth that it is human nature to be greedy. Get rid of greed, get rid of evil.

Shame but you've got it wrong, or at least you haven't fully thought about things. Greed is ingrained in the human race it is the ROOT cause of most of the chaos that has happened in the past and continues to this very day. Incidently it is also closely associated with the product of Evil and the many branches that have stemmed from it

You can't just get rid of greed as you put it this is fanciful thinking. At the very least you can re-direct it. Obviously this needs the right leadership and organisation.

My advice is get your head out the clouds and be realistic.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029

Originally posted by Anubis3.14
I dont think any thing we do will matter at this point. Some of you are right, its too late , they are too powerful ......

This is the truth.

This is our sad reality as Americans.

We are comfort creatures... and if idea takes us out of our comfort zone, we are opposed to it.

The other day somebody told me that "WARS are good". It's so easy to say that when you live in America. Maybe he will think differently if America doesn't win.

Geeze what is wrong with some of you. Do not try and bring people down to your level of resignation, this is a dangerous mentality and should be avoided at all costs!

[edit on 22-3-2009 by pharaohmoan]

I came across an interesting website not too long ago...

www.thevenusproject.com...

Although there are Marxist overtones (Non-Monetary System / All are Equals)...I could see this working but only if and when the entire Human Race raises their Consciousness Levels to a point that Violence is unthinkable, much less portrayed in an artificial setting....(TV, Video Games etc...)...Violence Feeds the "Predators" our "Ancient Gods"...

I am a little concerned...I see alot of posts here talking about "Protecting Ones Self" and the Purchase and Training and use of FireArms...I think these people must rethink their actual position in The Universe...Death is merely a Transition Folks...it is something that need not be feared...It is this "Instinctual Fear" that entraps and enslaves one to the powers that be...

Now I am not religious at all...as I believe all Religions are limiting in their schools of thought and critical thinking...whether it be the Religion of Money, Power, Politics, Christianity...etc...but if you take a look into the story of Jesus...he was very very aware...and I believe quite similar to Buddha in being in a higher State of Awareness in touch with every "being" around them and through them...They both knew that Violence only begets Violence...it is that simple folks...

If we can't begin to see that we are all stuck in a never ending "Violence Time Loop"...then we might want to open a few historical books up....

Just because we on ATS tend to spend a lot of time discussing outerspace, I don't think we need to operate in a vacuum. There is a single overiding mechanism which has enslaved the world's population and which now threatens to destroy it-- money and contol thereof. Any people who are unable to keep the result of their output- the "fruits of their labor", are at best indentured servants and at worst chattel.

Although this problem is global, the nexus seem to be the United States, as that is where so much of the world's wealth is (was) concentrated, and hence is also ground zero for so much of the nefarious 'shenanigans', as Jim Cramer from 'Mad Money' puts it. I do suspect an effective resistance here would have ripple effets worldwide.

Fortunately, there is already a bill proposed in the House, which if passed, would help return us to some measure of control over our money, and by extention our economy, lives and society. It is HR 1207, A Bill to Audit the Federal Reserve. Sponsored by Ron Paul, it calls for an end to the secrecy of the most powerful banking cartel in world history, one which has its tenacles stretched across myriad international banks and foreign governments.

The plan proposes to lay wide the greed, conspiracy and subterfuge of that private, for-profit corporation, which has undermined our sovereign national governments, making citizens no more than assets on corporate ledgers.

If successful, it would end the self-avowed source of the Great Depression of the 1930's, the architect of the current collapse, and the financier of all major wars and ongoing conflict of today.

If that's not noble enough for ya, I'm not sure what is!

Originally posted by Anubis3.14
I dont think any thing we do will matter at this point. Some of you are right, its too late , they are too powerful and too many people will not wake up till they are hit in the face with the fist of reality. And by then, forget it, were done.

The largest obstacle is that we've financed, through incredible lies and deception (NASA and HUD are prime examples) some of the most innovative, advanced and downright frightening technological advances you've NEVER heard of nor observed. For HUD reference Catherine Fitts. For NASA, do you really believe that a program of obsolete rocket technology is being pursued, that there is no secret space program. Please refer to the Biefield-Brown effect. Also, take a visit to JLN Labs, and see what an inventor has played with. In addition to pure technology, they have delved into some of the more esoteric, consciousness based tech, brought over in part by nazi scientists who escaped using vatican passports. This was done by the OSS, the predecessor to the CIA, who has siphoned money from HUD and every other blasted bureaucracy they've created, to the tune of over a quadrillion dollars. The bankers have been rewarded for their role in our 'complicity' to attain this technology.

reply to post by qbik2008

"I think these people must rethink their actual position in The Universe...Death is merely a Transition Folks...it is something that need not be feared...It is this "Instinctual Fear" that entraps and enslaves one to the powers that be..."
You are exactly correct, and in addition I must comment that the only thing we leave here with is our experience. Once out of the physical, we are still confronted with obstacles, but of a different sort.