Schro, Shock and Ian Are in Dulce, New Mexico

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by mental modulator
Are you guys on official ATS business or what?

Nope...all explained here...

gariac: Likely nothing but remember that the elimination of certain thoughts/ideas/locations/et cetera helps to focus further efforts.

While we likely won't spend a lot of time in Dulce due to continued travel if we can put to rest something regarding Dulce then the venture wasn't a "bust" (contextually speaking to ATS) as it were...

Sweet... Sounds great!

I remember a couple thread regarding vents also sink holes that turned into swirling vortexes when it rains...

I think electricity, vents, water, pipes, waste, roads, transport in/out, surveillance....

Thats what I would look for.

I would personally find some old natives and chat them up - INTERVIEWS baby!

Be safe guys, if you find any greys I want mine teriyaki style and not to dry.

Ok peeps, we're going to be heading out in about an hour ...

So if you have any last minute suggestions as to where in Dulce you would like us to investigate this would be the time to post it.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
We are always early for everything...

The first “Underground Base” conference is tentatively scheduled to be held in the town of Dulce, New Mexico. This unprecedented gathering in the town of Dulce will take place on Sunday, March 29, timed right in with the Aztec UFO Conference 2009 which will be held on March 27 and 28 in Aztec, New Mexcio, an hour and a half away from Dulce. In the Aztec Conference I am privileged to present the topic: REALITIES BEHIND THE STATE OF MIND: AREA 51 AND DULCE.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

www.ufomystic.com...

Hello, Ian, I hope you will definitely stay for the Dulce Base conference and public forum.

Here is some more article regarding the March 29 Dulce public meeting:

THE DULCE BASE: FACT OR FICTION?

Conference and Public Forum to be held in Dulce, New Mexico on March 29, 2009
Originally submitted by Access Media for Norio Hayakawa, expanded version:

DULCE, NEW MEXICO – Eye witnesses, law enforcement officers and paranormal investigators will all meet at a conference in Dulce, New Mexico on March 29 to discuss long-standing rumors of a secret, underground U.S. government biological laboratory and base in the area. Norio Hayakawa, a retired funeral director and former director of a civilian intelligence network, is hosting the conference at the Best Western Jicarilla Inn in Dulce. His intent is to prove that these rumors may have prosaic explanations.
However, he asserts that some of these prosaic explanations may be disturbing, if true, and if revealed to the public.

According to Hayakawa, stories began to circulate in the mid-1970s when area residents witnessed "strange lights in the sky" and when ranchers reported mysterious cattle mutilations and frequent sightings of military helicopters. The rumors intensified in 1980 when Paul Bennewitz, who was then the president of Thunder Scientific Labs adjacent to Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, reported his experiences with what he described as "alien entities". Bennewitz claimed that these entities were controlling humans through electromagnetic devices, that their triangular craft crashed near Dulce, that some strange aerial objects were regularly flying near Kirtland, the nearby Manzano Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility and Coyote Canyon Test Area, and that they were transmitting signals to him from a base under Archuleta Mesa, adjacent to Dulce.

One of the speakers at the conference will be Greg Bishop, who thoroughly investigated the Bennewitz claims in his book Project Beta.. There will also be a few other well-known speakers. “However,” Hayakawa said, “the principal focus of the conference will be with local residents, ranchers and law enforcement officers who will testify about their personal experiences.”

Interest in the conference and the decades-long rumor of a Dulce base are high. “The UFO Hunters,” a popular History Channel television show, recently visited Dulce to interview residents and research facts about the purported Dulce base. “Because of the History Channel investigation, the townsfolk of Dulce are very much aware of the conference,” said Hayakawa. “For the first time, some of the residents may come forward at the conference to speak without fear of ridicule.”

Skeptical of the claims and rumors himself, Hayakawa is convinced there could be prosaic explanations to both the UFO sightings and cattle mutilations, and looks forward to the conference providing a resolution of the matter. "There has not been any physical evidence whatsoever that there is such a base in or near Dulce," Hayakawa asserted.. "However,” he admitted, “I have heard about some disturbing allegations concerning the Dulce area relevant to serious environmental as well as health issues."

"One such wild allegation", said Hayakawa, "is the allegation that the government, beginning in the mid 1970s, may have conducted clandestine operations in the area involving experiments with bovine diseases, anthrax and other substances as part of biological warfare research." Hayakawa also says he has heard from other sources that there may also have been some illegal dumping or storage of toxic chemicals and other bio-hazzardous materials in the nearby areas.

(On a curious side note, Hayakawa stated that when he first visited Dulce in 1990 with the crew of a Japanese TV Network to help produce a TV special on Dulce, they were inexplicably detained by the Jicarilla Apache police chief while they were interviewing the people on the streets about their sightings of military helicopters, strange lights in the sky and also about cattle mutilations in the nearby areas.)

"Another allegation that I have heard", continued Hayakawa, is "the allegation that the there has been a cover-up of occasional radiation leaks in the region resulting from a 1967 underground nuclear detonation which took place about 22 miles southwest of Dulce.." The name of that government experiment was called Project Gasbuggy, part of the government's attempt to utilize nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. It was part of the Plowshare Program. Hayakawa said that it was conducted "ostensibly to ease the flow of natural gas in the region, but the government knew well in advance that it would produce high amount of radiation".

"These may have some relevance to an allegation that there has been relatively high rate of cancer in this region as well as some reports of problems with fertility among some women in the area as well", said Hayakawa.

Hayakawa also stated that "if some of these allegations are true", then he supports a theory "that the government may have purposefully created some 'convenient' cover stories to conceal those activities and may even have staged a series of fake 'UFO-type' incidents in the area, utilizing high tech equipment such as holographic projection devices." This type of operation, according to him, has been a part of the Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) programs utilized by the military. "The association of this area with 'UFOs' certainly creates a laughter curtain and ridicule and would detract attention away from serious scrutiny of the area."

According to Greg Bishop, Paul Bennewitz may have been a target of a concerted effort by the government through the AFOSI at Kirtland Air Force Base as well as Sandia and Phillips Labs to brainwash him into believing that there is an alien base under the Archuleta Mesa in Dulce, 125 miles north of Albuquerque. Their main goal was to move away the focus of Bennewitz's curious scrutiny of leading-edge military test projects near the Coyote Canyon. Greg Bishop suggests that part of what Bennewitz may have witnessed near the Manzano Storage Area and Coyote Canyon Test Areas in 1979 could have been the government's test flights of prototypes of remotely-controlled platforms (unmanned aerial vehicles) and testing of some laser-based optical tracking technologies. "If this had been the case these devices may have been utilized in timely fashion over Dulce during the height of government's clandestine operations near Dulce", said Hayakawa.

Whatever the case may be, Hayakawa said that this fascinating one-day conference, open to the public, will start at 10:00 a.m. and will conclude at 5 p..m.. Admission is $5 at the door. The conference will include an open public forum during which the public will be given an opportunity to report their experiences and express their opinions.

Additional information can be found at
www.ufodigest.com...

and www.myspace.com...

Exciting stuff.

Ears open eyes peeled when exploring the land.

Best of luck!

Keep on Looking!

If you're interested and available to do some really heavy
Underground Base hunting, try and get some soil samples
from the sides of the various roads and areas in public lands
that you're hiking over.

Just a spoonful or two of dirt and soil from each area
you visit should be enough.

Put the spoonfuls in a small tupperware-type container
(you can get the 2 inch cheap plastic cup containers
with lids at 5 bucks for 40 cups at Walmart)
and mark the current GPS coordinate on
a sticker that's pasted on side of the cup
and a numeric identifier that we can tie
to a digital photo you take of the local
surroundings. This will help identify WHERE
the soil sample comes from.

And when you come home, get someone who has
a radiation meter (50 to 350 bucks for a used one on EBAY)
or simple soil acidity (PH) meter (10 to 100 bucks from a
gardening store) to plot the values on a map based upon
the written GPS coordinates.

This will allow you to pinpoint geographic Areas-of-Interest
that contain unusual soil acidity and/or radiation levels.
Once you plot the GPS values into Google Maps
you can do an aerial exploration of future points
of interest for your next visit.

If you're REALLY INTO THIS TYPE OF STUFF,
get the soil samples analyzed at a lab to
determine metal and salt content using
Mass Spectography which you can then
ALSO pinpoint the results on a map to see
unusual concentrations of metals or salts
in specific geographic areas which
might pinpoint possible undergound
base or UFO activity.

This is a tip to help shed some light
on the Dulce enigma.

Hope it helps.

P.S. If you're exploring on working ranch lands with roaming
cattle NEVER turn your back on any closeby bull or agitated cattle
unless you're VERY CLOSE to a safe area such as a high rock
or sturdy tree that you can EASILY jump onto or up into.

To calm any agitated animals down, lay out some small piles
of simple table salt on the ground and move away...The animals
will tend to satisfy their curiosity and become distracted by the
other cows who'll be licking up the pile. It gives you enough time
to get somewhere safer.

When I did some work with cattle in Alberta, Canada I always
kept a ziplock bag of table salt with me in a pouch which I used
as a distraction mechanism if I ever came a little too close to
the animals (especially the agitated bulls!).

The key thing is GETTING YOURSELF EXTRA TIME to make it
somewhere safe...and that means using DISTRACTION!!!!

So be SAFE down in Dulce and remember to wear good
and sturdy leather hiking boots with THICK SOLES so you
don't puncture your feet on old cactii spikes, old barbed fence
wires or sharp rocks. AND ALWAYS, ALWAYS carry lots of
WATER or GATORADE in that very hot area.

I usually strap four bottles of the lime favoured Gatorade
to my carry belt and drink a bottle every 1 to 2 hours
as temperatures soar into the upper 80's and 90's Farenheit
(30+ Celcius) It doesn't take much to dehydrate in that
part of the country.

Originally posted by MemoryShock
Hi ATS...as the title suggests, we have reached Dulce, New Mexico and wanted to gain some ideas as to what to look for, check out, record etc while we are here...as Dulce has inspired a few threads. So have at it guys....what would you like for us to do...


[edit on Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:47:14 -0500 by MemoryShock]

The Alien Farm ™, located a few miles east of Dulce is a must see. It's definately worth it to pony up the extra dough for the Thomas Edwin Castello ticket package, as it's the only way to be admitted to the petting zoo. Don't waste your money buying their Alien Treats. I brought my own bag of Chex Mix and they seemed to like that as much as anything.

I don't know what your martital situation is, or how adventerous you are, but if you want some "alien action" (if you get my drift), talk to the pit boss at the casino. We call him "See-Tor", but his real name is unpronouncable by human tongue. Everyone knows him. He's easy to find. I warn you though: once you go alien, you never go back. Tell him RKWWWW says hello.





[edit on 20-3-2009 by RKWWWW]

Originally posted by MemoryShock
So have at it guys....what would you like for us to do...

I would like you to do everything that other members ask....

But do it once sober, and once drunk...and see if your reports conflict

reply to post by StargateSG7


I may be missing the obvious here, but in what way will soil samples and radiation relate to finding underground bases?

you should harass the 4 corners crypto guys.........get 'em to take ya bigfoot hunting or sumpin.

I'm confused.. Are you guys still here?... If you are then you can check out CR500 . It will take you to Pagosa Junction and through the back way to Pagosa. Lots of cool stuff to see.

Also check out Wolf Creek.. I heard that someone spotted armed guards up there recently. No word on why though..

If you want to ride Archuleta Mesa Via Horseback, email me.. I can arrange a nice trip with a Native guide!

Hey I dont know if you guys are going to Texas or not. But if you head through east Texas perhaps check out Jefferson Texas. It is known to be haunted. I stayed in Jefferson hotel (room 18) for a few days then went across the street and stayed at the Excelsior hotel in the Jay gould room (the same room Steven speilberg stayed in for a night while doing some travelling during the fimling of sugarland express.

I had a few things happen to me but I wont go into too much detail because I do not want to derail your thread.

It was a fun experience for me and You guys might like it too! Aside from it being a haunted city it has alot of history and the buildings in the downtown area (where you would stay) date back to the late 1700's and early 1800's. They have a mueseum there that contained things that seemed like they belonged more in the smithsonian rather than some little small town mueseum. The flag that was on Alan Beams space suit, some invention built by Thomas edison himself. (Word of advice, they dont allow photography but they dont search you so it is easy to sneak cameras in)


Oh and since you are in New Mexico have you been to Roswell yet? I havent followed your trip...

[edit on 21-3-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Yes...Roswell was passed through...

Though as a modern day conspiracy it is pretty hollow. The town is just another town with a few touristy aspects that are completely below the relevance of ATS...save for the consumer driven propaganda conspiracies that are present everywhere...

Dulce was more or less a bust as getting to the google map splog that was posted earlier meant gaining access to protected land...the following picture is of a fence, half arsed as it is, blocking a road/trail about a mile (as determined by GPS) from said google map splog...



Admittedly, time was a factor regarding our motivation to investigate further but in my opinion, the town is a fairly quiet spot in the middle of a lot of trees and desert. While it may be a good place for an undeground base it is decidely difficult to access.

My two cents is that there isn't a Dulce base in the sense that ATS has built up.

Edit for clarification.

[edit on Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:18:33 -0500 by MemoryShock]

Sure there's no underground base.

Everyone knows we conspiracy theorists are distracted by bright, shiny objects.

Look! There's a chemtrail in that photograph, Mem!

... let me make something perfectly clear,

there's nothing down Forest Road 314 ...

Carry On!

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Sure there's no underground base.

Everyone knows we conspiracy theorists are distracted by bright, shiny objects.

Look! There's a chemtrail in that photograph, Mem!

As I mentioned elsewhere, Ian, the History Channel, in a timely fashion, will air its first Dulce special on Wednesday, March 25, four days before the Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction? public forum which will be held in Dulce on March 29.
March 25's new episode of UFO Hunters is titled: "Underground Alien Bases" and will feature Dulce. Check the local TV schedules for Wednesday, March 25.
In any case, my take on all UFO TV programs is this:
TV programs are made to make money. That's it. This is why the more sensationalistic, the better it is for the TV networks.
If a UFO progrma on TV is boring or becomes too scholastic it will not make money. Let's face it. This is a fact.
So, my prediction about Wednesday night's new episode of UFO Hunters is the same as all other UFO programs on TV.
It will be sensationalistic.
Here are the wordings for the promotion by History Channel regarding March 25's debut of "Underground Alien Bases":

'It could be one of the darkest and most sinister secrets in the entire field of UFO investigation: human-alien genetic experiments, reportedly going on deep below the New Mexico desert brush in an underground base. There are even accounts of an uprising and a shootout between humans and rebellious alien Greys. Our team will investigate this far out story which includes testimony from a former homicide detective and undercover operative who have thoroughly investigated the region, interviews with UFO eyewitnesses, and a rare visit to a once top secret government facility--all to determine what lies beneath the sands of what's called the "Valley of Fear."'

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Sure there's no underground base.

Everyone knows we conspiracy theorists are distracted by bright, shiny objects.

Look! There's a chemtrail in that photograph, Mem!

As I mentioned elsewhere, Ian, the History Channel, in a timely fashion, will air its first Dulce special on Wednesday, March 25, four days before the Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction? public forum which will be held in Dulce on March 29.
March 25's new episode of UFO Hunters is titled: "Underground Alien Bases" and will feature Dulce. Check the local TV schedules for Wednesday, March 25.
In any case, my take on all UFO TV programs is this:
TV programs are made to make money. That's it. This is why the more sensationalistic, the better it is for the TV networks.
If a UFO progrma on TV is boring or becomes too scholastic it will not make money. Let's face it. This is a fact.
So, my prediction about Wednesday night's new episode of UFO Hunters is the same as all other UFO programs on TV.
It will be sensationalistic.
Here are the wordings for the promotion by History Channel regarding March 25's debut of "Underground Alien Bases":

'It could be one of the darkest and most sinister secrets in the entire field of UFO investigation: human-alien genetic experiments, reportedly going on deep below the New Mexico desert brush in an underground base. There are even accounts of an uprising and a shootout between humans and rebellious alien Greys. Our team will investigate this far out story which includes testimony from a former homicide detective and undercover operative who have thoroughly investigated the region, interviews with UFO eyewitnesses, and a rare visit to a once top secret government facility--all to determine what lies beneath the sands of what's called the "Valley of Fear."'

Excellent post. Even in the History Channel promotion an attempt is made to perpetuate a myth around an existing myth. What is this "Valley of Fear" Bullsh__t? I've lived in Northern New Mexico my entire life, have many friends in Dulce, and I have never heard that phrase used to describe Dulce or any where else for that matter. Look for it to be in the Dulce lexicon soon, though. Myths must be embellished regularly to keep the attention of conspiritorial minds.



[edit on 23-3-2009 by RKWWWW]

reply to post by YourForever


The forensic investigation term is called Geographic Profiling
were we graph unrelated or obscure facts and figures upon a
digital map so that we can use our powerful visual cortex to
scan and see any obvious patterns that emerge if certain events
or scientific facts keep showing up near a specific geographic area.

For example:

If I see higher than normal background readings for Strontium-lased
rare earths located in a specific area, I can deduce that someone
was doing advanced depth/soil analysis using radioactive markers.
Why, Who and When are the questions that can then be investigated.

If I see higher readings of Cobalt, I can deduce someone
MIGHT be using it for hardening of alloy steels used in
spacecraft or other aerospace applications so I would concentrate
my search in the area where the readings were higher.

If I see excessive aluminum oxide, yttrium, carbon-60, garnet,
Kevlar and/or glass fibres or copper oxide readings on roadways,
it means the tires on delivery trucks are depositing advanced ceramic
composite fragments that have fluffed off from the filling hoppers onto
the ground where tires can pick them up and then depositing them on
roadways which is a clue for finding places that might be building or using
high-temperature resistant devices or air/spacecraft --- so we follow
the trail to where the road ends and then dig or investigate further!!!!

If we find unusual soils or tailing deposits different from surface soils
or finding sub-surface soils or rock in an area where they shouldn't be,
those are ALSO vital clues...as is when finding a LACK of certain soils
or salts in a specific area which SHOULD have them on the surface
or in specific KNOWN concentrations for the strata or soil type in question.

If we plot all of these readings together on a map we can plot
the most likely spots for underground base building and begin our search
based upon a sound scientific base of knowledge.

This is why I ask them to take soil samples from everywhere they go
and RECORD where and when they take them!!!!!!!

[edit on 2009/3/24 by StargateSG7]

[edit on 2009/3/24 by StargateSG7]

[edit on 2009/3/24 by StargateSG7]

As an afterthought, I should also point out that if we see radioactive
byproducts or breakdown products in soil samples such as Gold or other
Heavy Metal Isotopes it means they could be the byproducts of an
advanced propulsion system.

If I see Isomers such as Hafnium et al...see weblink:
en.wikipedia.org...

these are all evidence of nuclear chemistry operations and any areas that
contain those items should be investigated further.

If I also see evidence of recent magnetization in the metallic/ferric
compounds within a soil sample that is also something to investigate
further as is the nuclear breakdown of radioactive compounds that would
NOT be natural to a specific geological place or stratographic time period
such as finding too much of a specific isotope of Carbon or Rare Earth
in a soil sample taken from soil types or strata of a known geophysical age.

If I see absorption/adsorption of specific percentages of effluent gasses
such as CO2, CO, H2, N2, Methane or Halides in the soil that could be an
indicator of where an air pipe or venting system is located.

By taking ALL of the facts and figures I have outlined and pinning them on
a map sorted based up on dates, time periods, soil type, rock strata,
GPS coordinates, and other criteria, we SHOULD be able to see a
consistent pattern when finding a likely place for the location or building
of an underground base.

Best of luck on your search !!!!!

reply to post by StargateSG7


Very interesting information, SG7!

I'm particularly intrigued by potential analysis of unusual magnetic alignment. That could certainly be indicative of a cumulative effect of high-intensity non-natural fields. I'm less certain about the radioisotope breakdown analysis - would the naturally present elements in the soil and such be enough indication? Or perhaps that assumes the addition of some sort of waste emission. A hypothesis fitting the measured results to a hypothetical source process would also seem much more tenuous, with many alternate explanations. There's a huge history of potential interfering effects in the southwest that could be brought against such hypotheses.

Such an interesting place! Worth it for the scenery and travel alone.

reply to post by StargateSG7


Wow! I learned something today. Now I can go back to sleep! Very informative.

As to our explorers,keep your eyes open for the unexplained. There's alot of 'Head scratching' that goes on in our mysterious country down here.

I've lived here in south central N.M. for 18+ yrs and the strangness of this country just tends to get shrugged off.(It hurts when you got to think about it..)

Check out this site to see what I'm talking about--

www.mystrangenewmexico.com...

Scroll down the left side for a plethora of other oddities on "the Land of Enchantment"