11 Openly Gay GIs Booted in January

reply to post by Common Good


No Problem, Common Good.

I think I'm learning a lesson here. Unless I walk in you guys' shoes, my opinion is just that, my opinion. I don't know what's in your heads. I'm starting to see things from a guys point of view. Maybe I should apologize to my husband for not seeing things from a soldiers point of view.

reply to post by virraszto


I dont think you should have to appologize for your beliefs, they are your beliefs, and mine are no better than yours or his. Thats all we have is our beliefs.
Things in the military are set up so different that civilians really have no clue as of what it really is until they are in it. And I am sure you have heard that before, because its true. Its just a whole other world and its really hard to understand why they do things the way they do them, but I can guarantee you the things that they do , are in the interest of saving lives.
Maybe things will change in the future, and if they do, I hope it is for the better. I dont think that blasting personal views towards the problem is the way to go(cough S.G). I do believe though that they will change based on democratic ways instead. When the popular vote changes, then things will change. This whole gayissue is a sensitive subject for many, but if we cant talk about it without fighting each other, we arent going to get anywhere.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Common Good]

Originally posted by Common Good
You dont give a damn how uncomfortable the majority of our troops feel?

This is a constitutional republic. The "majority" will have to respect the constitutional rights of the minority unless they have a constitutional legality over of the matter. As far as I can see it, we are free to follow what belief we choose and what sexuality we choose. Keep your personal issues on your own property.

thats a pretty horrible statement.

Whats horrible is outcasting somebody because they carried out their god given freedom of choice.

an uncomfortable soldier

Unconfortable KKK member sitting on a bus with a bunch of african american folk. Too bad for him or her.

If a guy cant be comfortable with the guy next to him watching his back, then they are both screwed.

If the guy does not respect the constitution he claims to be fighting for, they have no business claiming they are fighting for the nation and what it stands for.

You HAVE to depend on the guy next to you

You have to also respect the constitutional rights of your fellow man.

You never been in the military have you?

No I have not, I do however have a great respect for the freedom of my fellow american.

These soldiers disobeyed the rules

These soldiers chose to stand up to what are unconstitutional laws. You seem to celebrate soldiers disobeying rules when it regards a fringe conspiracy that holds no constitutional reason at all. Hypocrisy I smell.

Rules are rules,

And the constitution is law so either you respect the freedom of your fellow man and the constitution set forth our founding fathers or you dont.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Guess what, the Military aren't held to the same law as you are.

We don't get some of the rights in the Constitution. We are held to the law of the UCMJ.

Your law is one piece of paper. Ours is many, many, many more pages.

The thing is, you cant just "Be" how you want to be, in the military.
Regardless of gay or whatever else it may be.
Its not like that.
When you go home you can put on a dress and flop your hand and talk like a girl all you want.
But when your at work, there is a code of conduct how all are expected to behave.
And acting like a fairy is not abiding by that code.
For example, if you are a man, and put on a female uniform, that's unacceptable and considered out of uniform.
What were these soldiers doing, to make themselves openly gay?

Originally posted by jd140
Guess what, the Military aren't held to the same law as you are.

However the soldiers serve their nation and the constitution. Take it as you will. You either believe in the constitution or you dont. Which one is it?

We don't get some of the rights in the Constitution.

And I thought you folks were all about the constitution? Again your either for the constitution or not. Your either fighting for what the founding fathers intended or your not.

Your law is one piece of paper.

So the constitution is just a piece of paper to you? Boy you sound like Bush and his cronies.


[edit on 19-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


We fight to uphold the constitution so that you can have your freedoms while we are held to a differant law.

Don't take what I said out of context.

The Constitution is 1 piece of paper. While the UCMJ is alot more then that.

I didn't say its just a piece of paper in the sense you made it out to be and you know it.

Of course you left out the rest of the text so it would make me sound bad. Thats typical of a far left liberal.

Thats the second time you have done it today, so I'm thinking its a regular habit for you.

S.G. It is so hard talking to you, cause all you do is twist everything people say, and when they have different opinions than you do, you label them either as "Fringe" or KKK.
You dont debate anyone, you rant on about your own personal beliefs while ignoring others. You think you are doing good by standing up for the minority, but at the same time, you cast out the majority. Dont you see the hypocracy in that? Now I know routing for the underdog is the way to go in sports, but when it comes to laws and rules, they are what they are.
DONT ASK DONT TELL. Thats a rule. Dont you understand that? It was a DEMOCRAT afterall that put those words into play. =)

Originally posted by jd140
We fight to uphold the constitution so that you can have your freedoms

And yet you think its just a piece of paper and you so choose to strip that very freedom away from a fellow american.

Now if you honestly want me to believe that statement I suggest you change your tone regarding the constitutional rights of those individuals your so "fighting for".

while we are held to a differant law.

And yet your also fighting for the constitution. So do you believe in the constitution or do you not?

Don't take what I said out of context.

Maybe you can be a little more clear as to whether you support the constitutional rights of your fellow american or you dont.

The Constitution is 1 piece of paper

and yet you claim to be fighting for it. The constitution protects the freedom of your fellow americans regardless of race, creed and sex, and yet your prepared to completely ignore that freedom and still proclaim to be fighting for it.

Your either for the constitution or your not.

I didn't say its just a piece of paper

Then what were you saying when you said it was just 1 piece of paper? What were you saying when you denied the constitutional rights of those americans? Come on... what did you say?

Of course you left out the rest of the text so it would make me sound bad.

I dont know jd, im not the one ignoring the constitutional rights of my fellow american. Maybe you should change what your actually saying if you dont want to sound bad.

Thats the second time you have done it today

How many times have you completely disregarded the constitutional rights of your fellow america jd? Howmany times have I had to come up and remind you of those constitutional rights? Howmany times are you going to kick the bush and refuse to acknowledge the constitution as it is and where it stands.

It takes more than simple proclaiming you fight for the constitution. You have to believe in it as well. From talking to you it appears your ideals seems to conflict with the constitution. Maybe you could prove me wrong and begin defending the constitutional rights of those men.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Common Good
S.G. It is so hard talking to you

Its hard having a reasonal debate with actual evidence with you folks. When somebody doesnt agree, its an automatic mud fest. So if you want to continue in that manner, Im game.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I am against the Constitution. I do not believe in it. I am a far right hypocrite.

There now you can twist that around.

I have argued with you enough to know that you twist everything around to fit what you want. I have seen enough of you to realize you do not debate, you already have your mind made up. Therefor there is no sense debating with you.



[edit on 19-3-2009 by jd140]

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan
The thing is, you cant just "Be" how you want to be, in the military.
Regardless of gay or whatever else it may be.
Its not like that.
When you go home you can put on a dress and flop your hand and talk like a girl all you want.
But when your at work, there is a code of conduct how all are expected to behave.
And acting like a fairy is not abiding by that code.
For example, if you are a man, and put on a female uniform, that's unacceptable and considered out of uniform.
What were these soldiers doing, to make themselves openly gay?

While that may be true the constitution is very clear on the rights of your fellow man. I see where your coming from, these has to be a line drawn, that being said the work place is a private company/business or establishement and there fore those incharge have that right to enforce their own rules. The military however, which typically tends to be mostly conservative, serves directly the people and the constitution of these united states. If those men and women so proclaim their belief and standing by the constitution they should be standing up for the rights of their fellow americans, soldier or otherwise.

Now those soldiers were doing no one harm. Maybe some soldiers got scared of the word gay, I dont know, but no harm was done and unfortunatly it ended up it this way. This is against their given right to freedom as americans, take it which ever way.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

I am against the Constitution. I do not believe in it. I am a far right hypocrite.

Saved. Really thanks, its going to be good looking at that every once in a while.

I have argued with you enough

No, Im not done with you fellas and your next collection of trolling threads. You can ignore but I will be around to post my opinion, my disagreements and maybe, just maybe I will agree with yall once in a while.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Common Good
S.G. It is so hard talking to you

Its hard having a reasonal debate with actual evidence with you folks. When somebody doesnt agree, its an automatic mud fest. So if you want to continue in that manner, Im game.

Nobody but you has slung mud. You twisted my words around so that they fit your view of me.

What evidence have you brought to the table? I walked it and lived it. I speak from expieriance, while you speak from your chair. You throw around the Constitution like it pertains to everyone. It does not pertain to me. I defend it without getting any of the benefits while you enjoy them all. While I defend it and fight for it you stay comfortable in your home accussing me of not loving it.

I ask again, what evidence do you have that is better then my first hand expieriance? What website are you going to post? What story of another soldier can you find? You have absolutely no idea what it is like, yet you talk like you know it all.

You love our Country and Constitution so much join the Military. Put your butt on the line and then come talk to me. Short of that our little debate is over.

Here I have a simple question for yall.

Whats more important? The constitution of these United states, the constitutional rights of your fellow american, or the seperate laws of the military?

I thought you were done?

Originally posted by jd140
Nobody but you has slung mud.

Obviously this has to do with another thread so we should keep on topic here and move that argument to the other thread.

You twisted my words around so that they fit your view of me.

Answer my question if you wish to clear anything up.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Here I have a simple question for yall.

Whats more important? The constitution of these United states, the constitutional rights of your fellow american, or the seperate laws of the military?

The Constitution is more important.

We are not held to that though, for some reason you cannot get that around your big head.

These ex soldiers did not fall under the rights of Constitution. I do not get to enjoy the Constitution.

What are you not understanding about that?

Are you really that hard headed?

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Im sorry, but I dont play games =)
Knock yourself out though.
3 lines.
Edit; I was kicked out of school because of recess.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Common Good]

Originally posted by jd140
The Constitution is more important.

Then please put it first.

We are not held to that though, for some reason you cannot get that around your big head.

Oh I can, however if you are fighting for the constitution and these men or women are being removed because of their right to be free, you should stand by them. Couldnt be anymore clear. Your fighting for the constitution so act like you give a damn about it.

These ex soldiers did not fall under the rights of Constitution. I do not get to enjoy the Constitution.

That doesnt matter, if somebody removed one of your fellow soldiers because they were black or hispanic, and it was written in the military laws but not in constitution, would you stand up for them? Would you stand up for their constitutional rights? Screw the military laws, Im talking about the constitution.

What are you not understanding about that?

Im still confused as to whether you support the constitution enough to be able to stand up for your fellow american or not.

I find it funny in the last thread regarding a soldier disobeying the military laws because he believed the BC fringe conspiracy, you certaintly had no issue putting the military laws in the back seat then. Why dont you make up your mind as to where you stand.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Thats it.

I'm done, you are a thick headed individual who cannot grasp a simple concept.

You are now on the ignore list.