I know this is a very minority opinion around here but...

Originally posted by KayEm
Anyway, it's nice to meet you. I haven't been here long and don't mean to start any arguements, really. Pisky told me this was THE place to post your opinions and thoughts and so I came, I liked, and I plan to stay. But please don't try to make me feel stupid because you happen to disagree with me.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel stupid. I'm stating my opinion, which is in opposition to alot of people's beliefs.
Nice to meet you too, hope to have some more good discussions.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
*SNIP*

There is a distinction between a new world order and the new world order. The former is an idea, the latter is a conspiracy.

Originally posted by worldwatcherThe NWO for a single world government is a real concept and plan, however if it is currently being carried out in todays world, it is difficult and near impossible to prove, but if secret societies, like skull and bones and freemasons who promote their "own" from within can survive and carry on in secrecy...it is very possible that the NWO plan is in effect.

Ther Masons are an old man's club.
Skull & Bones is a political fraternity.

These societies aren't too 'secret' if people keep claiming to know all about them...






[Edited on 4-20-2004 by Esoterica]

"The Masons are an old man's club.
Skull & Bones is a political fraternity.

These societies aren't too 'secret' if people keep claiming to know all about them... "

The way you described them above are exactly the way they want to be seen. That is the front.
but what do we really know of these two organizations, members like Bush tell you they cannot speak of it, everything else is speculation and somewhat unproven, but you cannot deny that it is strange for a political frat and an old man's club to have have secret rituals...sorry i can't give you better detailed info, even though i never really spent too much time absorbing and reading everything ever said about them. I am not saying Freemasons and Skull and Bones are the NWO, but what I am saying if they can exist for decades and centuries, it is very possible that the NWO also exist

Originally posted by worldwatcher
The way you described them above are exactly the way they want to be seen. That is the front.

That's where we differ in opinion. Occassionally, a rose is just a rose.

but what do we really know of these two organizations, members like Bush tell you they cannot speak of it, everything else is speculation and somewhat unproven, but you cannot deny that it is strange for a political frat and an old man's club to have have secret rituals...

Not really, if they take themselves seriously enough. I'm not saying they aren't "secret" organizations- they do have a hush-hush way about them. But that doesn't mean they are a part of some global conspiracy to take over the world []b(as you have noted below).

sorry i can't give you better detailed info, even though i never really spent too much time absorbing and reading everything ever said about them. I am not saying Freemasons and Skull and Bones are the NWO, but what I am saying if they can exist for decades and centuries, it is very possible that the NWO also exist

Possible, yes, but just about anything is possible. But we need to be looking at is what is probable.

Possible, yes, but just about anything is possible. But we need to be looking at is what is probable.

Althou I do not subscribe or believe that the NWO as the present US president and other US presidents have brought up in their speech is a bad thing, there still seems to be proof that several governments in the world want some kind of NWO. Some of these govenrments view of a NWO is dubious to say the least.

Islamic extremists want the world to be under Islam, and at least some moderate Islamics would want this too. Even thou it is most probable this will never happen, still they want this and as they have shown they are willing to resort to terrorism and other acts, legal or illegal, everywhere to make it happen.

The socialists/communists want the world to be under their own regimes and if there are people that still think that socialism/communism is dead, you better look again at what has been hapening in places like Venezuela and Spain.

Russia right now is still in a delicate balance as they try to grow out of communism, the outcome is still uncertain, lets just hope it will be a good outcome for Russia and the whole world.

China is not making any big changes from their communist views and together with NK/Venezuela/Cuba and other countries like these have their own views of a NWO.

It seems as if everyone has their own vision of a NWO.

Now, once more, I do not subscribe to most of the theories that some members have put forth here, there are many rumors, but that's what they are, rumors. But it is also true that it seems everyone in the world have their own definition of NWO.

Refer to this link.
yaleglobal.yale.edu...

"U.S. President George W. Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin have signed a nuclear arms reduction treaty many are heralding as a momentous event in the long and stormy history of U.S./ Russia relations.

The terms we are hearing are �new world order� and �global realignment� and �future international order.� The actual accord on weapons, written on three pages, is almost peripheral to the momentous events surrounding it, many of them accelerated to prominence because of the attacks on the World Trade Center last September 11."

Excerpt taken from.
www.cbc.ca...


As for a shadow government president Bush has refered to it once, but it also seems that it is different to what some conspiracy theorists are claiming it is.

The shadow government as Bush mentioned it, seems to be a second government that would be implemented in case the known government is taken out by terrorists using a WMD in our capital. This shadow government is more of a "bunker duty" than anything else.

Refer to this link.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Still, after all it does seem that it is true several people/nations do have their own views of a NWO, so therefore it exists.

ur not alone on this one, esoterica......
personally, i don't believe in it either

NWO is a piece of junk people use to make money off of. Ive seen books in the local library about NWO damn.
It isnt going to happen our governments cannot be controlled by some higher government. If the public found out the country would be in chaos due to the rebellious attitude of our country's citizens. If there is a NWO i suggest we RIOT NOW!

Originally posted by CookieMonster000
NWO is a piece of junk people use to make money off of. Ive seen books in the local library about NWO damn.
It isnt going to happen our governments cannot be controlled by some higher government. If the public found out the country would be in chaos due to the rebellious attitude of our country's citizens. If there is a NWO i suggest we RIOT NOW!

Thats not you is it...........

It cant be.....

I thought they..........

Time to fortify my mind........

Muaddib

I can buy that certain nations may have the concept of their New World Order, which actually just means they want to be a superpower. Nothing new.

What I can't buy the the New World Order. You know, the one that everybody who ever had a secret meeting is part off. The government can hardly keep the snow off the highways, how the hell does every congressman manage to keep the lid on a centuries-old conspiracy that doesn't seem to be going anywhere?

[Edited on 4-20-2004 by Esoterica]

I'm also of the opinion that any belief an the NWO is nothing but fantasy. It's interesting though, how some people can connect anything that catches their fantasy to form (in their minds) a web of mystery and deceit.

Originally posted by Agent47

Originally posted by CookieMonster000
NWO is a piece of junk ......i suggest we RIOT NOW!

Thats not you is it...........

It cant be.....

Relax, Agent, you're not seeing things. It is indeed good old CM!

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

If your family were killed infront of you i think you would do whatever a person told you to do plain and simple

Originally posted by Seekerof
I believe, from my own college field of study and the research associated with it that the New World Order is an 'agenda', a utopian concept, and that it is an ancient belief/concept.
As such, I, however, have no idea if it is a 'functioning' reality today. Many will say that it is, many will say that it is not. As with anything else, proofs and evidences vary from subjective to objective. I am almost certain, that to a small, finite degree, the 'agenda' still exists,

I must agree, I feel that people dream of domination and revive old concepts/groups to help attain that goal.
I also think that the reason that these groups dont seem to get far is that they are always being held back by other groups.What religion wouldnt want to be the sole worlds religion? yet they cannot be because other groups hold them back.The NWO is a belief just as religion is a belief & we have proof positive of how long religions have been around.

Originally posted by shorty
If your family were killed infront of you i think you would do whatever a person told you to do plain and simple

Probably not...
why?
if all you have, love and care for has already been exterminated by this person then doing as they say is no longer a necessity...
Only under the threat of killing those you love is there incentive to do as the one issuing the threat desires. Once the threat has been carried out, there is no reason to act accordingly.

Esoterica, Count me in as another heretic. And yes, I don't have to prove that it doesn't exist. Maybe though, there is a conspiracy to keep us all looking for something that's not there so we won't see what really is there. Let the conspiracy folks run with that one.

Originally posted by CookieMonster000
NWO is a piece of junk people use to make money off of. I�ve seen books in the local library about NWO damn.
It isn't going to happen our governments cannot be controlled by some higher government. If the public found out the country would be in chaos due to the rebellious attitude of our country's citizens. If there is a NWO i suggest we RIOT NOW!

The World Bank Organization already has control over most of the governments in the world, because it is what supports the global economy. There is not going to be a secret group called the New World Order. That is a title given to an agenda which is being carried out by corporate elitists around the world.

You can believe what you like about the motives of those involved, but you cannot deny that a defined strategy for globalization has been in the works since the early 20th century, at least. There is just too much documented evidence to say the whole concept is nothing more then the workings of an overactive imagination.

As for the "shadow government" that controls the puppets in Washington, some pretty influential men have either cut their strings and publicly warned that it exists, or proudly bragged of their part in it. Here are a few examples:

"I didn't speak up when the secret government brought about wars in Laos, Burma,Vietnam, E. Timor, and Central America. I didn't speak out about the deaths of 58,000 American's in Vietnam, or the tens of thousands of CIA directed assassinations in Central and South America. I didn't speak out when the savings and loans were looted. I didn't speak out (or listen) when courageous individuals spoke out about the October Surprise operation. I didn't speak up when people reported the CIA drug trafficking into the United States. I didn't speak up when I learned of the looting of people's assets in Chapter 11 by corrupt federal judges and others. I chose to remain ignorant about the depth of corruption by government officials and judges. I ignored the pattern of coverup and criminal activities by members of Congress. I ignored my responsibilities as a Citizen, and was indifferent to the tragic plight of those people who were directly affected by the massive corruption in government. I shirked my responsibilities by eagerly believing the disinformation and denials given by the media and federal officials. I am now paying the consequences, and I share the blame for what is happening to the United States, and to the American people." --Rodney Stich, Defrauding America

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." 1916 - President Woodrow Wilson

"The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans' freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizens of this plight." President John F. Kennedy - Nov. 13, 1963 - Prior to his assassination, tells a Columbia University audience


This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long - We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller Sept. 23, 1994

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

People don't riot because acknowledging this fact would also mean acknowledging that they were asleep on the job, and allowed their powers to be stolen out from under them. Not to mention the danger involved in standing up to authority! You risk losing social status and material comforts when you defy those in power! That thought alone is enough for most to turn a blind eye to just about anything, especially if they have not yet been adversely affected by the actions of the puppetmasters.

Denying there's a monster in the closet, doesn't mean it's not really in there though. It just makes you feel better, while the monster is silently sneaking up behind you! Once it's got you, it's too late and you are toast!

Originally posted by CommonSense
Esoterica, Count me in as another heretic. And yes, I don't have to prove that it doesn't exist. Maybe though, there is a conspiracy to keep us all looking for something that's not there so we won't see what really is there. Let the conspiracy folks run with that one.

Count me in there too.

I have not seen enough evidence to support claims of a NWO.

You guys are clueless. Just because you don't "believe" in it, that doesn't mean it does not exist. Look on your damn dollar bill - Novus Ordo Seculorum - New Secular (worldly) Order.

"Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfil the historic vision of its founders. A world in which freedom and respect for human rights find a home among all nations. " Pres. G.H.W. Bush, in 1991.

"The phrase "new world order" has been widely used on the political scene since first publicly coined by former president, George Bush. Although quickly adopted as the catch phrase of the 1990s, few people actually agree on what "new world order" really means. Since "new world order," while elusive in definition, is most frequently used to describe aspects of the post Cold War international scenario, understanding the true meaning of that phrase is critical to projecting our future strategic environment and prospects for the new millennium. The attempt of this paper is to reveal that true meaning.
Historical analysis will be the primary methodology used to reveal the meaning of George Bush's specific terminology describing his concept of "new world order." In a January 16, 1991 speech, he identified the opportunity to build a new world order "where the rule of law-governs the conduct of nations," and "in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the UN's founders." isuisse.ifrance.com...

Gee, where could Bushie have gotten that Idea from? Howabout Grand Master Mason, Albert Pike? The Bushes want to bring about the third world war to abolish all constitutions and set up a global (or semi-global) rule, whether through the UN, America, the EU.

Stick your head in the sand a little further. That will make it go away. Ignorance is bliss. You know what? It doesn't matter a tit what you believe - it matters what THEY believe. Bush, Kissinger, Brzezinski, Rumsfeld - they all are striving for it.

As for a conspiracy, such a thing doesn't exist. Conspiracy requires complete secrecy. Hitler, however, did - the "open" conspiracy. It's there for all to see, if you want to find it. Most, however, find it too difficult to think outside of an understanding of history that says things just "happen" when in fact they are planned. The conspiracy is right there before your eyes, which is why it's so hard to believe.





[Edited on 24-4-2004 by Braatz]

Originally posted by Braatz
You guys are clueless. Just because you don't "believe" in it, that doesn't mean it does not exist.
Stick your head in the sand a little further. That will make it go away. Ignorance is bliss. You know what? It doesn't matter a tit what you believe - it matters what THEY believe. Bush, Kissinger, Brzezinski, Rumsfeld - they all are striving for it.

No need to take that stance.

I will believe when I see solid evidence. Not something on a dollar bill that is open to interpretation.



.

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by Facefirst]

No need to take that stance.

I will believe when I see solid evidence. Not something on a dollar bill that is open to interpretation.

I think your concept of solid evidence is open to interpretation.







[Edited on 24-4-2004 by Braatz]

Originally posted by Braatz

No need to take that stance.

I will believe when I see solid evidence. Not something on a dollar bill that is open to interpretation.

I think your concept of solid evidence is open to interpretation.
[Edited on 24-4-2004 by Braatz]

Just as is your concept of a NWO is open to interpretation.

Prove it to the rest of us.


[Edited on 24-4-2004 by Facefirst]