The Second American Revolution (Thomas Paine returns)

Originally posted by RR98
...What we really need to do in this country is bust up the 2 party system and open things up into a multi-party system of government, ...

I disagree. That would only lead to more dis-unity. I say that ALL political parties should be disolved. Why is the party important? It's not. As an American, if I think I can help in the management and government of my State and Country, why do I need to declare my political party affiliation? It serves no purpose other than to divide the people.

We tried pressuring our so called representatives (HELLO! the bailouts anyone?) It didn't work, and it won't work, they don't care for us or our opinions.
The time for talk has ended. Now is the time to pick up our guns and start to practice headshots. Maybe if enough of our representatives are taken down under "Mysterious circumstances" then maybe they will start shaping up out of fear of being the next target. You may think I'm kidding, but I'm dead serious. They don't understand peaceful language... only violence which threatens them directly.

reply to post by ReagrahamLincool


Lmfao he want's me to teabag Obama lol

Sorry i couldn't resit...

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
A friend sent this to me a few days ago. Perhaps it is time we start to read the works of our founding fathers, and revolutionaries such as Paine, and give some serious thought about going back to our roots, and regaining our "inalieable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Our constiutional rights have been eroded. It's time to start reclaiming them. If Congress can't do what the people want, they can be recalled, and people who understand what the constitution really means can be elected to go to Washingtion to do the will of the people.

I too got a link in email, along with this:

Second Annual
State of the Revolution
A Report to the American People

Tonight, in just one hour, at 9 pm ET and 6 pm PT, learn about the Second American Revolution, soon to arrive in a neighborhood near your own.

Briefly, here are just a few of the things I intend to cover tonight:

* Why a violent revolution in America now is inevitable.
* How nationwide rioting will erupt, leading to an open race war.
* De facto invasion by Mexico.
* Why bailouts will bury us, not save us.
* The wave of States' Rights movements in America.
* Exactly who killed America and "The Axis of Morons."
* How to protect yourself.
www.nickelrant.com...

It seems to me that we are coming to a second revolution, and real soon too. Several of my militia friends tell me that are ready at a moment's notice, and the cops are running scared too. I got stopped two days ago because I have a Ron Paul bumper sticker on the rear bumper. The officer asked me if I were a militia member! He then told me of a new FBI directive that named Ron Paul, and Constitution supporters as terrorists. He wanted to know where he could go and join up, do you believe that? It's getting pretty bad in America, gasoline prices going up and down, groceries too, and now it seems that China is no longer buying Treasury Bonds, so I guess now Obama will have to borrow from the social security fund for his stimulus package. We need something to happen, and soon, or our money will be worth nothing, (already is) and with current events, like in Alabama, people are getting mad as hornets at the government. And then there are things like this:

Popular state sovereignty bills draw comparison to Civil War posturing

The threat is only implied in more than two-dozen state sovereignty bills making the rounds in legislatures across the country, except for a New Hampshire bill where the authors didn't hold back. Any law infringing on the state's right to self govern would trigger the dissolution of the nation: "All powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution ... shall revert to the several states individually."

www.charlestoncitypaper.com...

Ask yourself this....
Is wanting a revolution in America now Treason?
www.lectlaw.com...

TREASON - This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance. The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

www.umich.edu...

In the Constitution, the framers changed English law. The corruption of blood and forfeiture end after the offender dies, not down the hereditary line. The offender may be put to death or jailed.

So you better think twice is all i am saying before saying YES i want to start a revolution....It may be treason IDK to be honest...
Even posting on ATS or any website ..Inciting a revolution against the Government Of the united state's is a High treason..and by law they can put you to death.

So word yourself correctly folk's is all i am saying.

Is talking or conspiring to wage a revolution on us soul against our government treason.
Why would a revolution start?
you do not agree with the us government and want to CHANGE IT?
Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them
So in a way this video Could be considered Treasonous.
And to try to start or incite this revolution would be punishable by DEATH.
i would assume
[edit on 19-3-2009 by TheAmused]

[edit on 19-3-2009 by TheAmused]

[edit on 19-3-2009 by TheAmused]

Originally posted by frailty
I have no doubt that Glenn Beck may really want to do the right thing

You mean quit and retain a tiny portion of his personal integrity? Nah, his check is sizeable no doubt. Why quit? It would only accomplish something useful to do so. Better to keep taking the bribes and convincing the TV audience they are getting something from him. He wants to be some kind of verbal totem? I, smallpeeps, would disassemble Glen Beck on live TV or in any debate ...But even if they offered me 60 seconds to do that, he'd have the power to cut to commerical or get the final spin, etc. Don't you notice how TV is not real and how no discussion can happen in that forum?

Do not trust anyone on the payroll and at the microphone now. They will not give you truth but will hypnotize you into thinking only you and your rifle can solve it. STOP. This is wrong. Rifles will not solve this current crisis yet I do believe in the rifle as the last resort. We are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being "there" yet.

Turning off the TV entirely would be a better first step than to pull the trigger of one's rifle. Does anyone here think the beltway sniper Malvo was a "patriot"? Uh, no, he was the same sort of created-kook as Teddy K. or McVeigh, etc. The goal is a fait-accompli in that it succeeds in the very conception of it. There is no way for patriotic Americans to be pro-active in the historical-context since they have been sidelined by the murderous goofballs who supposedly just cropped up from the grassroots which is TOTAL AND COMPLEAT BS. Violence solves nothing and many American patriots know this in spite of our media-served "national history of violence or supposed individual-kook violent responses to violence" as told by the cover-story.

I really think with all the issues facing America, the last thing you want to do is make people more emotional about these tough times. I would present the facts of the issues matter-of-factly and describe why things are going wrong from my Libertarian viewpoint and from the stance that we are drifting away from the ideas and values that made this country great. I would not try to impose my religious and cultural beliefs into the discussion, accept maybe to point out that this nation was founded so that people could have the freedom to choose for themselves. I think that the concepts of freedom, liberty and a government of and for the people are very rational ideas. I do not think you have to tap into people's more primal emotions to have them understand why these ideals are so rightous.

Good thoughts, and yet, I disagree in that what Americans need right now is more sadness and more emotionally traumatic truth BUT OF A DIFFERENT SORT.

You say that we don't want to upset Americans at this point, but in fact, if they are not shaken into good sense and resistant frame of mind, then the Kissenger plan will come into effect as we see many people in America are right as Kissinger predicted, "Once they have a large enough crisis, they will cry to us to save them"

Now let's see, do you think HK was saying that Americans would vote through Congress to be saved, when that crisis comes? I think not, because really all HK needed was a reason which mollified the masses.

- If you sit there silently, Kissenger's solution (Blue Hats) will come to America.

- If you fire your weapon and others do the same, Kissenger's solution (Blue Hats) will come to America.

- If you resist like the Indians did, and sit in the dirt and refuse to participate, Henry will have to go find some other platform for his theories.

The only solution is to completely align yourself with the non-aggressive principle with a Christlike attitude. Although I do see the Blue Hats may come to the US, shooting them would never produce good results. No, it would only bring about worse things. Please remember this.

I am also somewhat worried that these divisive viewpoints are more of what Glenn Beck is about, and he is smart and forward-thinking enough to understand that liberty movement is an ever growing now and in the future, so he hijacked it for his own personal gain.

Could be true, but he'd have to be actually smart. I think he's just getting paid.

Poverty is the real earmark of truth when Rome and taxes are in control. Jesus knew that. He was dirt-poor, had no where to lay his head. Still, he had value far beyond any generals who came after him, and his message has value today.

As to keeping religion and state apart from one another, I think that is another clever trick which is used to foster endless discussion on either side. One cannot remove "faith" from issues of government, and so that discussion is also, designed to lead nowhere.

Most of the arguments I see are poorly formulated and will lead to more tears. This "Revolution Discussion 2009" one is another of those, because this situation cannot be solved with bullets, as so many simple viewpoints seem to think.

"Not since Thomas Paine's Common Sense has there been such a clarion call to action." -- The Denver Post

[edit on 19-3-2009 by imd12c4funn]

What about Sedition ?

Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.

Because sedition is typically considered a subversive act, the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where those legal codes have a traceable history, there is also a record of the change of definition for what constituted sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within study of persecution.

The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).

Put simply, sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state and has to do with giving aid to enemies or levying war. Sedition is more about encouraging the people to rebel, where treason is actually betraying the country. Sedition laws somewhat equate to Terrorism and Public Order laws.

source

Originally posted by themaster1
What about Sedition ?

Sedition laws somewhat equate to Terrorism and Public Order laws.

Yes, the analogy would be a bridge. The defenders of the 'bridge' aren't going to care if you are strapping C4 to the pylons or if you are trying to erode the foundation. Any tiny action against the bridge will call the same response.

But bridges can be good or bad. Romans built bridges to reach holdouts in several historical instances. Surely some bridges are bad and some are good. What matters, is the traffic on that bridge.

Whatever America is, it is surely driven by the people, be they sheep or human or drones. Destroying the bridge built 400 years ago by priests and puritans, is not the right idea. All we need to do is change the traffic flowing over it.

But America's most destructive and horrible bridge to the world, is its endlessly chattering media stream. One could see why the world wants us to stop preaching when we are clearly no more enlightened than the Romanists (and their victims) who built the first bridge to America.

Anyway, destroying the bridge, or undermining it, or working to block it, are all tactics that will be defeated, in my opinion. Changing the traffic that flows over the bridge, however, is doable.


[edit on 19-3-2009 by smallpeeps]

i found this video a long long time ago. i was going to post it but i figured that i wold just be called a re re just like all my otherposts

kind of makes you wonder, if all these conspiracies are purposly leaked from our government, to make us look crazy.

no common american would ever buy a conspiracy book, the knowledge would never get spread (as thomas paine had done before).

even if a common american were to open a page of a book about obama and his bad ways, they would just go to claim it as conspirator rubbish.

all the facts are out there, there are so many new age common sense equivalent books out to spread the knowledge, but it just isn't heard anymore.

its funny how america has been dumbed down so much.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

 

Glenn Beck played this on his radio show today...crazy eh? He didn't play all of it...just some.

I guess it's making it's rounds across the net...although it's a bit old...from 2008. Supposedly people are emailing this to each other.

I actually just finished watching the whole thing...wow...crazy stuff.

Glenn Beck? Thomas Paine has about as much relationship sentiments of Beck as a catfish has empathy for the fisherman. Beck would be the guy, urging the Americans to go back to the womb of the good old British.

This guy has been screaming about the class warfare against rich people, and now he's outraged? His rich wall street friends, are the ones who screwed our economy.

In 1980 when Reagan took office, Wall Street was 8% of the economy. IN 2008 -- it was representing 40% of all of America's profits. This as we were outsourcing jobs, so that we could be "more efficient." Meanwhile, corporate stooges like Beck were railing against Unions. Funny, they've gone from 25% of jobs to about 8% of jobs in the same time frame. Whether or not you like Unions, because you've certainly heard every bad thing that ever happened on the mass media shows,... there was a reason why they were formed, a lot of workers died before we got worker's rights, a 40 hour week, and ended child labor.

But you guys are suckers. Pure and simple. Glenn Beck works for the guys who ripped you off, and he wants to make sure you go after anyone who is going to try and fix the mess.

All they have to do is repeat the lies. Repeat the lies. There isn't anything he says that stands up to sunlight. This is EXACTLY what happened in Germany, when the Conservatives there ruined the economy in a failed war -- and then did nothing but ruin the chances of repairing the problems by a poorly endorsed Liberal party called the "Weimar Republic." They controlled the media, and blamed them for everything.

Don't believe me -- just follow the money? Who got rich and fat the past 10 years? Who's walking away with it now?

reply to post by David9176


Starred and flagged, my friend! I have recently become re-engaged in the political activism part of my life, in most part due to being a member of ATS. Recently I contacted my Congressman and both Senators and my state legislator concerning 10th amendment issues. I have yet to hear from any of them. I also contacted my Congressman and Senators concerning 2nd amendment issues. I did hear from my Congressman and he assured me he would vote against any legislation designed to limit or eliminate the right for CITIZENS to bear arms. The fact that I have heard from neither Senator concerns me greatly. I will keep the pressure on!

Originally posted by hillbilly4rent


Black white red yellow and tan we are all Americans from birth till death. We owe every thing we have good or bad to this great nation. All creeds religions races and people of other nations have fought and died to protect this country and the freedom that America is known for. And to think we are going to sit idly by and let it all slip away I hope not. I will hold my ground I will protect my family,friends and my country I just hope I wont be alone.

You will not be alone.......

Do I need a second line?

And what are they gonna uprise against? Immigrants? Companies who hire them?

I'm not believing in any of this bullcrap until these "patriots" really organize to attack the POLICE in broad daylight and the heads of the big banks and corporations as well. When you gonna have Monsanto execs being chased by enraged war veterans or something then now I'll say that your Constitution is being revived. Til tis day, it will all be nothing more than childish nonense for gun lovers.

reply to post by smallpeeps


Smallpeeps, you're reflecting the exact same problem that I saw with all pacifist activists in my lifetime, and this is to consider "nothing" or "I don't know" as a concrete, viable solution in a dangerous conflictual situation where people lose their houses and their jobs by the millions, where people get jailed by hundreds or even shot in the streets just for peacefully resisting to authorities, and where the police is being given the green light by the government to do absolutely any evil they want in nearly-total impunity. Moreover, the "nothings" and "I dunnos" are never any relevant solution to ANY problem of any kind, because they are a way to concretely evade a situation rather than to face it. Just like when your kitchen gets all dirty and messed up, just saying "I dunno what to do" and running to your room, or just sitting down and consuming won't make things better. Pacifists suffer from the disease of being unable to take matters in their own hands, and to give all the responsibilities to some abstract power structure and demented, disconnected course of action that always seems to come down from the skies.

Although I'm really worried about the reactionary and White supremacist subtext that this "Second American Revolution" has, the fact that people are organizing together in a militaristic way to bring forward a strong defense for the population from the abusive authorities and to to make their constitutional rights respected is nothing less than a foot in the right direction, really, although its not a solution for everybody's taste. The only thing that's missing from that is a way to provide ourselves with resources and democratic resource-management to survive without the help of emergency administrations like FEMA, cause you don't make revolution without bread (...and coffee

The only solution is to completely align yourself with the non-aggressive principle with a Christlike attitude.

I hope you're being sarcastic here, or are you just completely mad?

Christianity did not became so wide because of its martyrs, but because of the warlords (popes, beginning with Roman emperor Constantine) and their goons who imposed the Church and its doctrine through ruthless violence and a carefully-crafted system of repression and fear all across Europe, and later in the rest of the world. If you're willing to play the marytr game like the thousands of leftist activists out there all there's gonna be is even more martyrdom, with people going massively in jail for just hanging out in the streets (like what happened in the last RNC convention, or just a few days ago in Montreal, Canada).

You do not defeat ideas with bullets... yeah, I got that a long time ago. Just as ideas will not shield you against bullets. History has shown that pacifist idealists are good at digging their own mass-graves and letting dictatorships simply happen because they really did'nt have this concrete alternative solution in their hands, after having refused the recourse to organized violence. Look at what happened to the movement of the White Rose in Nazi Germany. The only thing they succeeded was to ironically to make their failure be remembered through their flyers. And don't bring me the same old Gandhi lecture... he was part of the political elite in India, a privilege that millions of other fellow anti-imperialists at that time did not have.

Of course the violent approach is not magical, or neither fun or even ethical, it's just the one that works best in the face of any oppressive presence. Only an even more brutal oppression, of any kind -not just through killing or beating people- can get the people rid of a clear, concrete oppression. It is turning the fear in your advantage by showing that you can be even more dangerous than the despots who try to take over your life.

Thus, playing the sheep only makes you even more in the position of a sheep and it ends ups makign the oppressors stronger and/or more convinced of themselves. This is where the martyr game will lead you.

I'm telling you: you are free to go test the power of love in front of a line of goons in full body armors and with advanced tactical weaponry, and brainswashed (and paid) to coldly smash down hippies and citizens alike, but I'm pretty sure you'll just end up weeping out of pain from some fractured bones in the van that's gonna led you to prison, if you did'nt already ran away out of the FEAR (and the nerve gas) they are using agaisnt you.

This is not the kind of violence that Ghandi has faced through his activism, and I'm really wondering if he would wear a gas mask and boots with electric insulation today, or perhaps just a horde of big-time lawyers and mainstream media reporters working for his cause. The average American has none of these. But he still has the possiblity to revolt in the most savagely violent manner that cannot be imagined...



[edit on 20/3/09 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by Echtelion
Smallpeeps, you're reflecting the exact same problem that I saw with all pacifist activists in my lifetime, [...] Pacifists suffer from the disease of being unable to take matters in their own hands, and to give all the responsibilities to some abstract power structure and demented, disconnected course of action that always seems to come down from the skies.

Wow, that's quite a statement. I hear you tho, pacifism leads nowhere and is 'diseased' thinking, right? Yeah.

Although I'm really worried about the reactionary and White supremacist subtext that this "Second American Revolution" has, the fact that people are organizing together in a militaristic way to bring forward a strong defense for the population from the abusive authorities and to to make their constitutional rights respected is nothing less than a foot in the right direction, really, although its not a solution for everybody's taste.

You live in Canada, right? When's the last time they had a Waco-type event up there?

The only thing that's missing from that is a way to provide ourselves with resources and democratic resource-management to survive without the help of emergency administrations like FEMA, cause you don't make revolution without bread (...and coffee

You've ranted against peace-nics but there's not much for me to respond to except to try and clarify: You think Americans should use force to change their government? Force in what way exactly? Should they have empty bolts in their rifles and just weild them for show, in a threatening manner? Personally I think this battlefield is more complex, and you are wrong to frame me as a person who does not understand combat. I understand enough about combat to know when a situation is a setup.

Do you?

The only solution is to completely align yourself with the non-aggressive principle with a Christlike attitude.

I hope you're being sarcastic here, or are you just completely mad?

Mad. But not completely.

Christianity [became widespread] because of the warlords

That is wrong. The violent part you are speaking of came only after the peaceful Christians had been sidelined/killed. The violence had nothing to do with Christ. Give me some info regarding your own faith (whatever that may be) and I'll be happy to shine a light into it.

If you're willing to play the marytr game like the thousands of leftist activists out there all there's gonna be is even more martyrdom, with people going massively in jail for just hanging out in the streets (like what happened in the last RNC convention, or just a few days ago in Montreal, Canada).

Going to jail? Isn't that where they humiliate and delouse you like in that movie "First Blood" with that guy John Rambo who fought in Vietnam and saw his buddies blown apart then gets rolled up by the US small-town power-trippers? As I recall, he went back and blew the whole damn town up. Yeah, I am beginning to see your point of view.

You do not defeat ideas with bullets... yeah, I got that a long time ago. Just as ideas will not shield you against bullets. History has shown that pacifist idealists are good at digging their own mass-graves and letting dictatorships simply happen because they really did'nt have this concrete alternative solution in their hands, after having refused the recourse to organized violence. Look at what happened to the movement of the White Rose in Nazi Germany. The only thing they succeeded was to ironically to make their failure be remembered through their flyers. And don't bring me the same old Gandhi lecture... he was part of the political elite in India, a privilege that millions of other fellow anti-imperialists at that time did not have.

Yeah, I hear you. The peaceniks in Hitler's time didn't stop him, Ghandi was not what he seemed, and both points are true. Words can stop bullets, however. If you don't know that, not sure what I can say to you.

Of course the violent approach is not magical, or neither fun or even ethical, it's just the one that works best in the face of any oppressive presence. Only an even more brutal oppression, of any kind -not just through killing or beating people- can get the people rid of a clear, concrete oppression. It is turning the fear in your advantage by showing that you can be even more dangerous than the despots who try to take over your life.

Do you see the glaring error in your post?

FACT: There is no way to be more dangerous than the authroity who run the US now. There is no way an American can make themselves appear to be "More Dangerous" than the authority or 'despots' as you term them. I don't think every soldier or cop is a robot.

I am not afraid Echtelion, I am just not the sort to encourage others into a meat grinder. I think the people who rally others toward the meat grinder, are arseheads who fail to think on a higher level. The meatgrinder is the idea of armed revolution against the US. That is true folly and it is totally unAmerican, even if a person is a redneck who feels the South will rise again or whatever. It is not patriotic or right to take this moment in 2009 and jump on America's spine so as to fracture it. There needs to be a power shift but it has to happen in the mind. Can your mind make that leap to a solution which doesn't involve telling your neighbor to get killed?

Thus, playing the sheep only makes you even more in the position of a sheep and it ends ups makign the oppressors stronger and/or more convinced of themselves. This is where the martyr game will lead you.

I am not 'playing the sheep' and I am not playing a 'martyr's game'. I am smart and cautious, that's all.

I am determined to break this idea of armed revolution or US-fracture like people seem to fantasizing will happen. I share Lincoln's desire that the US will remain one whole unit. I believe a peaceful solution exists though some are too feeble minded to grasp it. It takes little intelligence to pull a trigger and I am familiar with a variety of armaments and trigger pulls. I just feel that bullets are the low-tech answer and there needs to be an open non-media controlled dialogue regarding non violent solutions to the US internal crap-storm right now.

You seem motivated by fear far more than me.

I'm telling you: you are free to go test the power of love in front of a line of goons in full body armors and with advanced tactical weaponry, and brainswashed (and paid) to coldly smash down hippies and citizens alike, but I'm pretty sure you'll just end up weeping out of pain from some fractured bones in the van that's gonna led you to prison, if you did'nt already ran away out of the FEAR (and the nerve gas) they are using agaisnt you.

Hahahahaha, I really got a laugh out of that.

Now let's see. I am not afraid of a broken bone or three, and I am not afraid of any goon hiding behind riot gear and a mask. But also I do not have anger for that goon, for like other goons his mind has been rigidly pre-formed by his training; all he knows is violence.

I pity the goons and cops who can't see above their eyebrows. I feel sad for them, but no, I do not intend to either a: get beat down by them, or b: take violent action against them. I do not have to choose either option. Can you grasp that?

This is not the kind of violence that Ghandi has faced through his activism, and I'm really wondering if he would wear a gas mask and boots with electric insulation today, or perhaps just a horde of big-time lawyers and mainstream media reporters working for his cause. The average American has none of these. But he still has the possiblity to revolt in the most savagely violent manner that cannot be imagined...

You would rather have let's say, 50,000 Americans (not Canadians I guess?) dead due to armed revolt rather than having 100,000 of them with a broken arm and in jail? That's just f'ing stupid.

But okay, let's gameplan this armed revolt of yours. How shall it come about? When an apache helicopter or a predator drone is on the horizon, what would Thomas Paine do, prey tell?

The fact of the matter is that you are probably stuck in the old ways of thinking. The fact of this era and new century is that the PEOPLE have more power to talk and coordinate, and that needn't be for warfare, because that coordination is obviously going to monitored and closely observed by our fine armed forces and satellites.

But the point is this: If you have the right to speech, then that is what must be used first, because if you use any other method first, you'll be taken down hard. That's all I am saying. The authorities are itching for a reason to brutalize the dirty masses. It will not resolve anything for the dirty masses to arm themselves. IN FACT there will surely be infiltrators who come in and break windows and cause trouble so that the peaceniks are targetted, just like happened in Seattle at the WTO protests a few years back. The authorities are seeding these peaceful crowds with violent, masked idiots. So you have the masked anarchist/idiots versus the masked cops and the innocent protestors caught in the crossfire.

But regardless of how the authority schemes, they canot win against the principle of Jesus, which was not propagated by bloodshed but by belief and faith.

I understand if you have no faith, who can blame you? But I'll stand with the believers and Christians when that time comes. I will always try to talk to a cop or a judge or whatever like they are a real person with a heart. I don't care if it's true or not.

Originally posted by BostonBill99

Originally posted by RR98
...What we really need to do in this country is bust up the 2 party system and open things up into a multi-party system of government, ...

I disagree. That would only lead to more dis-unity. I say that ALL political parties should be disolved. Why is the party important? It's not. As an American, if I think I can help in the management and government of my State and Country, why do I need to declare my political party affiliation? It serves no purpose other than to divide the people.

One of the BIGGEST insults that was given to a politician during the time of our founding fathers, was to call him a "party" man, in other words, a partisan. Because it meant that he was of un-sound mind, and was incapable of upholding his principles, instead he had to be led by leash by his party members, like a dog. That's what our political leaders have become, dogs to be led by the leash by someone else, no convictions whatsoever.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Representative Government has come to mean, Washington is open to business to represent any foreign interest from the London Banking Cartels, to the nation of Israel, to how to turn China into the biggest manufacturing and consumer market in the world. Bring enough money to the table and the ‘free’ ever trusting and gullible citizens can be gotten to do anything when Madison Avenue and Hollywood finish spinning it in the right way for us.

:

Well put

reply to post by BostonBill99


I don't think most people really understand the true under pinnings of the ideologies at work.

Basically there are three factions of government in the world.

Oligarchical kingdoms, Populist rule, and Established Legislation.

Here in the U.S. we have all three complementing each other, the executive branch, the congress, and the judicial.

Democrats are generally predominated with populist powers, a popular opinion that can be manipulated, and turn out to be less than optimal if not false, the majority opinion. The reason for the disparity is not everyone will have the same level of understanding, the same knowledge about an issue, or the same belief system.

Republicans, at the core of what they promote (or at least used to), is the notion that no, majority opinion is not always correct, and an established strict set of rules should be followed regardless of popular opinion - rules established by a presumed enlightened and knowledgeable few.

Both parties have honorable ideas at the core but there needs to be at least some flexibility and balance. Both are subject to abuse, and neither one is infallible by itself.

I agree that we should steer away from the polarities and do away with the two party system.

In every decision that is made we should adhere DIRECTLY to the greater good, the pursuit of progress, peace, and freedom - and not rely solely on ignorant or ill-advised popular opinion, or fall victim to the interests of parasitic greed.