Finally, an honest discussion about race!

I'd like to start off by saying that I feel we need to open a dialogue about race! More specifically, how it effects personality/personal psychology. It has been years since this has been effectively discussed, as the atrociously racist "Bell Curve" made it impossible for the more rational of us to study race!


First, I'd like to say that this discussion is for rational, compassionate individuals only! It is meant to be fun and open us up to finding new respect for each other and new avenues of understanding the way we are on a personal level and how this relates to genetics!


Most important to this, is that on a personal level we all know blacks, whites and asians who are pillars of wisdom and light. As well, we know blacks, whites and asians who are just spectacularly evil wastes of a human life. There are no absolutes in this forum, only interesting trends and generalities.


Finally before I start my sometimes crude yet entertaining post, I must remind us that at a base level we are all the same... We start this life as incredibly beautiful children, with pure hearts and radiant spirits... That is the ultimate truth! We all are here to bring nurturance to those children, the most important beings in the universe as far as I know! So let that keep this all in perspective, as adults, things start to get weird! Anyways, here I go!


Whites- White people evolved in colder climates, so became attenuated to being in large groups, huddled up in small confinements. For this reason, white people are the most astute politicians. They expend great energy on presenting themselves well to other people, and understanding other peoples true motives. (Can you say cabin fever?) White people unconsciously are hyperaware of everyone else in their immediate environment.

The cons of this are that white people can be overly power-conscious, can be quite paranoid about other people's motives, and tend to put everything and everyone in a neat little catergorized box... This is mentally and physically. Another thing is that white people can have some serious boundary issues! They like to get up in your face and assert their point of view... (whoa dude, I can smell your nasty breath). Moreover, this claustrophobic history has given whites proneness to depression and anxiety more than any other race! (Its no wonder like 99% of the people posting here are white then!)


Blacks- Blacks evolved in a very dangerous open terrain. Lots of predators, basic survival issues are key. Black people have the most astute in-the-moment technical ability. A well educated black man will astound you with his breadth of knowledge and his general response timing. This is because the terrain which the black man evolved was so greatly varied! So many species of plant and animal to discern from! Blacks have a more open memory recall and a more accepting attitude (when well educated) towards diversity. Obvious is their advanced physical prowess. "Ooops, better get up that #in tree in a dime!"

The negatives that blacks can have is being overly kinetic, not as much energy expended on social considerations. (Dude, you just really hurt my feelings, but I guess I can just laugh it off). Blacks also suffer from the get it done and move on syndrome, where they could spend more time pondering a specific subject to get deeper into it.... a lot of times they don't even bother. Also, the adrenalin surges of years of base survival scare other races! LOL


Asians- Asians evolved in a terrain that was generally greatly varied and lacked many of the physical dangers apparent in African or Latin American terrains. (Although not quite as safe as where the whites evolved). Asians decided many years ago that the group was all powerful, and transcended personal considerations. Basically, Asians have had the opportunity to sit back and ponder longer than any other race, so their right brain awareness; imagination, abounds! Whereas the white man gets paranoid that the group is

turning against him, the asian man is paranoid that his activities aren't suiting the needs of the group.

The negatives of this are that Asians often get too tied down in their responsibilities to others, to really pursue a meaningful and healthy existense that is satisfying to themselves. Also the asian tends to not stand up for himself or others when appropriately, subconsciously assuming that the group will take care of it. Another problem with Asians is repression, they have a lot stuffed under their belt that they just can't seem to get out. Watch some of the asian explosion videos on youtube, prety funny stuff.


Last we have the Latin's. This is the most diversified bunch of them all, so one might conclude the most balanced... (no im not latin) The thing about latin's is that they were the last to leave the matriarchy behind, or the family/society unit where the mother/woman remains central, so Latins have a very feminine, passionate, emotional core about them. Also a very ruthless, vengeful side. (lol) Latins had at one point developed the most advanced of civilizations besides the egyptians (another highly diversified group). They are the most emotionally healthy people statistically but can verge on being too emotionally overbearing, uncontrollable fits of jealous rage are COOOOOOOMMMMMON in latin communities...

Interesting theories here!
To me it seems that alot of what you have said rings true in many instances, however as time goes on the mixing of cultural and racial identity really seems to be changing the dynamics of what makes a certain people who they are. I will give you that environmental factors probably played a major role in each color becoming what they have over the course of mankind, but I think it'll all become moot to an extent as time goes on. Environmental factors have all but ceased playing a role in first-world countries such as the US.

I really like where you're going with this though, very interesting thoughts!!

Interesting. I don't have anything to add that the PP hasn't.

Ok, well I do not think Race affects anything, psychological or physical. Human beings have no difference, there are average sized whites, blacks, asians, mexicans and tall, muscular, short, fast and anyother generalization you want to make. What affects the psychological aspects is how the person is raised, not by there genes. You have thugs and you have hard workers, do genes play a role in this? No, how the person is nurtured does. Does being poor make you a slob and a thug? Nope, it does not. How you are raised makes you the way you are. If the person is raised to be a hard worker, then they will be a hard worker. If the person is raised to hate the world and be a slob, then they will be a slob. Its a nurtured mind set, no race affects what they do or how the person is. Races play no roles in emotion, life style, knowledge or anything. I am not saying you are generalizing or an evil person, I applaude you in bringing up a matter in which you thought was interesting and of importance and I am glad you did it in a kind way, but this is the problem that fuels discrimination (not racism), generalization is a dangerous thing to do and often affects how a person raises there children. If the generalization of them is seen as overly athletic, emotional, smarter, then the other races will inevitably develop a generalization and discriminatory mind set, affecting not only there outlook, but there childs outlook.

I honestly think that having huge discussions about race, only enforce the fact that racism exists.

If we continue to see people as black, white, hispanic, Asian, then they are winning. The goal here is to divide humanity, divide it any way you can. Whether it be race, religion, sexual orientation, they want us fighting amongst ourselves all the time.

And truthfully, I don't see race anymore, I could care less. Whether there are trends about certain races, that's all just speculation and numbers people come up with to further divide us.

There is no need to discuss race unless it is educating racists on why it is wrong to think about race. It's very simple. When my first child asked why a man was darker than myself, I told her "coincidence".

You invite kind hearted and open people into this dicussion, but you know you are opening the door to those who would like nothing better than to cast a line and have somebody get caught in it.

When speaking of topics that divide people, you always get the same thing in return, racist bigotted rhetoric and kind hearted truthfull responses against the bigotted racism. It's a loose loose situation on a public forum such as this.

The longer we keep talking about the things that make us different, the longer we fail to realize that truly, we are all one Species of people who have NO differences what so ever, but the ones we artificially create.

~Keeper

reply to post by poomouth


Uh, you realize that "Latino's" refer to the language, not the race, and that Native "Latino's" are in fact Asian by Ancestory?

As are all Native Americans.

And many Mexicans (Especially in Mexico but not limited to of course) are a Hybrid of Iberian Whites and Native Asian Indians? Mesitos (bad spelling?)

We Human's very in the past based on our diets, our climate, our terrain, and our inbreeding. Genetically we are different, albeit very, very slightly .. perhaps it effects our mental processes, but if a black kid is raised in a white environment, odds are, he will match any white at any normal level, same can be said for a white kid in a black environment, an asian in a white environment, etc, etc..

It's more or less social and cultural conditioning.. our differences only become apparent when someone points them out, which is where ignorance takes over.

Just remember, technically speaking there are only three Race classifications, the rest are Ethnic.

Edit to fix moronic mistake of Liberian and Iberian, my bad.

[edit on 3/17/2009 by Rockpuck]

There is a good reason why there has not been any meaningful dialogue about race.

It is because people that hate other people based on nothing more than how they look has a problem that runs deeper then can be fixed with a few conversations.

Bigotry and racism say more about the bigot and the racist then it does the people they hate and nothing that you say or do is going to change the color of their heart.

Hate is a mental illness that is not easily cured. Some people are so far gone that even God can not touch the cold stone mass that miraculously beats in their chest.

I hope that you are sincere in you desire for communication on this issue but you will probably get more out of a personal and private chat with someone then with this post.

You would have a better chance at enjoying a peaceful picnic sitting on a honey covered blanket then trying to civilly discuss race on a forum such as this one.

The races are interestingly different.
A full discussion of the differences would be fascinating.
I'd like to see an in depth survey of psychological profiles, in an effort to determine how much of their opinions, emotions and behavior is nature and how much is nurture.

Latin is not a race.

There are many physical differences other than those that first meets they eye.
Hair shape, bone density, skin thickness skeletal proportions are different.
Of interest here is that Black Africans are the only creature on earth that has a solid hair shaft. All others have a core. The shape of the Asian & white race hairs is different. One is round - I think the Asian, the other elipsoidal.

My contention is that we did not "evolve" but were brought here from other planets. Each race was placed on a different continent where they would interact with their own. There were oceans, deserts and mountains between them. Those who brought us here probably thought at the time that we would never meet. I wonder what they think now.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I completely agree with your statement! I have personally had friends of other colors who were born and raised in my predominantly white neighborhood and they did indeed speak and act more like the people around them than children of color in the ghettos of Detroit would..just one example that i've personally experienced.
Whatever differences there may or may not have been between any and all colors has ceased to really matter, as we all become more and more assimilated into the wonderful mixture of cultures and traditions that are constantly spreading across the world. This multitude of cross-sections from all over the world is a great thing in my opinion, as we become more able to share traditions, knowledge, and culture...with these added viewpoints and histories, we grow that much more aware of what is possible, and that much wiser.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
You have thugs and you have hard workers, do genes play a role in this? No, how the person is nurtured does. Does being poor make you a slob and a thug? Nope, it does not. How you are raised makes you the way you are. If the person is raised to be a hard worker, then they will be a hard worker. If the person is raised to hate the world and be a slob, then they will be a slob. Its a nurtured mind set, no race affects what they do or how the person is.

I understand what you're saying but I have to disagree with nurture/environment being the sole determinant of our personalities.

I was the oldest of 6 children and, though raised by the same parents in the same household with the same values instilled throughout, I was nothing like my parents or my siblings even from a very early age. My own mother would sometimes jokingly (I hope) ask if I was adopted. Occasionally she would say, "You're just like my aunt Mary!)

Again, my sister married a man when she was 18 and had a son by him. Her husband was a criminal and got thrown in jail. The son never knew who his biological father was and she never spoke of him. No one in the family did as it was a bit embarrassing. She remarried and had 2 more children that turned out fine. Her firstborn son is grown and prison bound. He's been, how shall we say, "unconventional" from his youth.

It seems apparent to me that genetics does indeed play some role in the personality development as even newborn infants have personalities very much different from each other. They haven't had time to be influenced by environment yet their personalities are evident on the day they are born.

While genetics may play a significant role in our personality development, it is not to say that one personality "type" is more preferred than another. If there are stereotypical behaviors in one racial group that is not predominant in another racial group then viva la difference'!

These issues were studied (supposedly scientifically) in the earlier part of the 20th century but when you read the conclusions and the obviously biased foundational assumptions on which their research was based, it is apparent that any meaningful discussion of genetic influence on personality would require entirely new studies.

Since any conclusion reached with such studies would further divide and conquer us, I see no need for further research along those lines. I would hope that the great minds of our time would be motivated to find ways for us to all dwell peacefully and prosperously despite our obvious differences.

*edit to add that so far the conversation seems to be civil. good job, OP*

[edit on 17-3-2009 by whitewave]

Yes thank you for all of these well-thought responses, I can't keep up!


First of all, I think divisive or critical thinking needs to be balanced with the knowledge of a general uniting or wholistic principle! To have one or the other without balance would be the great mistake! I think these things need to be discussed with love and objectivity, or at least to be made available and less charged with hate, for truly, there is NO DIFFERENCE between us humans at the heart of the matter...


That said, I agree that I am treading on material that has been wholly avoided for a good reason! However, much of us have moved on from this, or never were at the point of negative judgement!


Again, I reiterate that this thread is ONLY for those who view themselves as servants of mankind, and that all races are our brothers and sisters! That said, the advice to be careful is plainly true and should be taken into account by all of us who wish to enter the territory of discernment and study from the place of love in our hearts!

The point is to shed light on an area or topic which was previously unknown, as in the long run, this always proves more therapeutic than destructive.

Ultimately, the measure of a man is in NO WAY DETERMINED BY RACE.





I myself am drawn to this topic for a reason... My father was Japanese, my mother was white, anglo-saxon american. I grew up first in a white neighborhood north of chicago, when I was 12 I moved to tokyo to attend an international school, then at 16 moved back to chicago to attend an all black high school. I now work as a garbageman with entirely black coworkers except for one white and one mexican. In general I've been interested and talked openly about the differences in races my entire life and never raised negative sentiment! Its fascinating...

My first wife was half Irish, half african american, with a blackfoot indian great grandmother. We discussed over the tenure of our marriage very openly the differences of race, and our four year old son is probably the most beautiful boy on the face of this planet. I see him as a signpost to the future race of our planet (if we survive) and wonder exactly what his interests/talents will be as he grows. What implications does this have?


My current wife is brazilian, that's spanish, black, portugese, italian, and a smorgasbord of native tribal stuff, we also have just had a baby together, and talk fun, often poke fun at each others families, the diversity of our two sets of parents is just FASCINATING!

reply to post by poomouth


Interesting stuff there! I recall reading once, (and God help me, but I don't remember where or by whom, which could be a bad thing if I remember later on), that the "theory" of where the skin colors came into play was easily discerned by looking at our closest relatives. Basically, it went something like this:

Whites inherrited their skin color and characteristics from Chimpanzees.

Blacks inherrited theirs from Gorillas.

Red-skinned and yellow-skinned individuals (and possibly red-haired), inherrited theirs from Orangatans, and possibly some mixture of the above.

I'm not saying I ascribe to this, only adding to the humor of it all. Where the Rhesus monkey fits into all this is beyond me, (with the Rh factor in blood). But one thing is for sure....whoever "made" us, sure had a sense of humor! LOL!

On a serious note, I don't think it's irresponsible at all to ascribe behavioral traits to a general group of people, nor do I think, if done responsibly, it is racist to do so. Every group has their strengths and weaknesses, whether affected by culture, upbringing, or just plain old genetics. There are over 30 different types of blood roaming around out there. It would be foolish to think we all have an equal baseline to start with without recognizing predisposed factors inherrent in our DNA. What RELATES us all is what is intriguing to me. Whose DNA combined with all those apes to produce us? So in that respect, we all are truly "related" and have inherrited a common denominator, regardless of what ape we may or may not have been created from.

So in other words, if some of us are predisposed for athletics, politics, art, writing, etc., then why wouldn't personalities and behaviors also be subjected to the same scrutiny? What is foolish and irresponsible is to make these conclusions to attack one group or another, while completely ignoring the positives...i.e., like reporting such findings to support something like "whites" are the dominant race. Hitler was guilty of this.

I do wonder though, if such reseach is still going on without our knowledge. If you found yourself on the short end of the genetic stick, how would you feel? Would you want to know? What would you do if you found out there were groups out there trying to sabotage/do-away-with entire races based on that research? If God said we all are equal, then who gives them the right to rank races?

Lots of morality issues in those questions!

mpriebe81

The greatest thing about the internet is no one can tell if your black, white, purple or violent orange. Nor female nor Male.. information flowing freely. Until the government steps in and destroys it..

I'm of the opinion that our differences in skin colors come wholly from
the environments in which our ancestors lived. This would explain why native Africans have such a high level of melanin, while caucasians have much lighter skin due to climactic conditions. It makes sense really!

reply to post by Rockpuck


So true my friend!!! It's funny that one can be caucasian or black or asian or hispanic, and yet their ancestors can come from one or many of literally 10s of different countries and regions. I myself am considered caucasian, yet I claim ancestry from not only Irish, French, German, and Norwegian ancestors, but also ancestry from the Algonquin indian tribe from the Detroit/Windsor area.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
reply to post by poomouth

 

Interesting stuff there! I recall reading once, (and God help me, but I don't remember where or by whom, which could be a bad thing if I remember later on), that the "theory" of where the skin colors came into play was easily discerned by looking at our closest relatives. Basically, it went something like this:

Whites inherrited their skin color and characteristics from Chimpanzees.

Blacks inherrited theirs from Gorillas.

Red-skinned and yellow-skinned individuals (and possibly red-haired), inherrited theirs from Orangatans, and possibly some mixture of the above.

This couldn't be more inaccurate. Humans evolved from a common ancestor of these apes, not from the apes themselves.

The only thing said so far that is even close to being accurate is that skin color is purely from environmental adaptation. The human genome is 99% identical for every person on this planet.

I think this topic could use some clarity in terms of the meaning of "race". Are we talking about color, ethnicity, or nationality? Asian is not a color and white or black is not an ethnicity.

To add: Emeraldzeus, I just noticed you said that you didn't ascribe to the first part of your post. Just wanted to assure that my post was aimed at the idea and not you!

[edit on 3/17/2009 by yadda333]

Yes, yadda, to be sure, the discussion is very crude and general until whichever person decides to steer it into a more a specific area.


The discussion is about race purely in genetic terms, and how that can relate to personality. This is excluding obviously the most important factor in what makes a man; Himself. His decisions and experience.

One thing I find interesting, that you mentioned is that genetic material, as similar as it may look on the human genome, creates vastly different experiences. You said the only thing that youve read which is true is that different races have different skin colors. However I believe that if each race were to somehow share the same exact skin color, same height, and same weight, you would still be able to distinguish them! The differences in that .1% of DNA are as astronomical as they are tiny.

Whitewave, I disagree that studies of racial differences would be divisive.
I see it as furthering our understanding of each other.
We study cultures for this reason don't we?
Why not deepen the study?
We are not alike, not any of us. We , all 6+ billion of us are as different from each other as the snow flakes are different from each other. So differences are not anything new and studying them should not be avoided for some politically correct nonsense.

Nothing has ever been resolved by avoiding the issue.

Anyways, I myself wanted to share bits and pieces on this thread that pertain to my original supposition.


I've noticed that whites more than any other race like to make direct eye contact. (though native N/S americans do this comfortably as well) This I believe is related to their tendency to want to see through people, and their subconscious need to expose their intentions as a social norm. (Again, a result of living in close quarters with others over an extended period of time) My mother always taught me to make direct eye contact or "people will not take you seriously."


I've noticed that black men when they communicate, often do so side by side, facing the same direction, much less often front to front. I've also noticed that when black men sit to face each other at a dinner table, they often adopt a far leaning back posture or a hunched over posture to keep their sense of personal space intact.

East asians of course, are taught NOT to make eye contact! It might make the other person uncomfortable, etc..

I myself being half japanese and half white will often make eye contact, but I seem to lose some energy when I do so! With my mothers family, I am often uncomfortable with the loud, boisterous manner which they communicate, with my fathers, I often feel too outgoing, like I am stepping out of line. LOL



Another thing i've noticed with white people, is that they often use the terms "fake" or "inauthentic" to describe people they don't trust. I've never understood this idea much. How can a person not be authentic? Mean, dangerous, funny, inspiring, I understand, but isn't everyone authentic in their own way? It comes from that close-quarters psychology of needing to be honest, and expose yourself or else everyone else suffers...