H.R. 1388 - "Required Service" and "Mandatory Volunteer"

I would think that mandatory national service would light off a revolution,but I really begin to wonder about this country.I don't think the majority of the U.S. really has it in 'em anymore.Y'all done became too #in lazy.........
BaaaaaBaaaaa
Fkn Sheep
They're gonna have to send me to prison,or kill me before I serve this fnk country again,anybody who thinks they owe their "legal fiction" country anything is just plain stupid,and I KNOW most americans are at least very,very ignorant,even here where we deny said........
Anger
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[edit on 19-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]

[edit on 19-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by pteridine

 

There's no illusion that the draft is not voluntary. Your comparing an apple with an orange.

Fruity analogies aside, what if the 'national service' evolves into a kind of selective service law? Other countries actually require national service from their citizens.

Originally posted by george_gaz
So if somebody drops litter and I force them to pick it up ... is that slavery?

If it were me??

depends on how you'd do it, I would think you would need a gun son.

If you fail to see how this can be beneficial to society then you really need to have a hard think. Oh no wait ... you already have a solution don't you

A solution to what?

It will be like a summer holiday or a brief three month camp. It is not slavery because slavery had no "end date".

Really??

Why don't you force a person to have sex with you with a limit of a half an hour and then when they arrest your ass for forcing someone to do some thing I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to do with someone like you,, you can tell the judge the asinine logic behind your concept of slavery ok?

Force someone to drive you somewhere and see if you don't get charged with kidnapping and carjacking.

You can tell the Judge "I'm sorry your Honor but I am one of those cool kids on the conspiracy website ATS,, maybe you'd heard of me and my staggering intellect? You see I was only going to limit the forced event for a ride around the block so it wasn't to impede someones freedom of movement or the right to her their own pursuit of happiness I mean mine was more important on account of my support of OBimBo!

Then tell me how's that werking for ya

K Thx





[edit on 19-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by pteridine

 

There's no illusion that the draft is not voluntary. Your comparing an apple with an orange.

Fruity analogies aside, what if the 'national service' evolves into a kind of selective service law? Other countries actually require national service from their citizens.

Fruity? we have selective service and selective service laws when applied and who cares what kind of slavery other countries brought upon themselves. That BS ain't happenin here got it?

Anybody watch Beck today, according to the government, people that vote third party are likened to domestic terrorist?

Anyone hear that?

Didn't Lincoln once say, "...that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."? You know, OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people?

It works both ways, people. I'm disgusted by half of the comments here in this thread. People complaining about not wanting to help others. IT'S CIVIL SERVICE! It's not shipping you out to Iran to go fight a war! It's making sure you go out for an hour out of the day and pick up all that trash you threw out of your Hummer. Oh, and did ANY of you, and I'm sure the vast majority of you are past college, read the damn bill? It's required ONLY during years of schooling, presumably for children in the public school system. I see no harm in distilling respect for our earth and fellow members of society. They HAVE to make things like this mandatory because without it people start lacking in their social responsibilities, and YES that IS a part of being American!

It's people like you that refuse to give people like me canned goods and toiletries to send to the tent cities out in California that are popping up at astronomical numbers. I've been going around for weeks asking for donations, and even churches have refused to help!

As for the guy that said 700,000 soldiers would be needed for Iran. You ever research the war in Iraq or did you just look up US numbers? You do realize we wouldn't need to put near that number, seeing as we DO have allies. Those allies have numbers as well.

I'm all for this, then maybe the children that have socially inept parents can grow up and be responsible. Stop complaining! Most of you aren't even affected by this, and if your children are, put them in private school/university where, yes, the governments fingers do not touch as easily. You still have an option!

Edited to add - If you don't contribute don't expect anything in return. It's been a base philosophy of our country since it's start. It's like those wannabe sovereign activists. Don't like our laws? Don't drive on our streets, don't put your kids in our school system, unless you follow the law.

Also, this isn't illegal as it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. Well, maybe the college level, but you all do realize that you have NO rights until you turn 18/21/25? BY LAW? Ergo, the government has every right to enforce this in schools IT pays for!

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RcknShdw]

Originally posted by RcknShdw
Didn't Lincoln once say, "...that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."? You know, OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people?

It works both ways, people. I'm disgusted by half of the comments here in this thread. People complaining about not wanting to help others. IT'S CIVIL SERVICE! It's not shipping you out to Iran to go fight a war! It's making sure you go out for an hour out of the day and pick up all that trash you threw out of your Hummer. Oh, and did ANY of you, and I'm sure the vast majority of you are past college, read the damn bill? It's required ONLY during years of schooling, presumably for children in the public school system. I see no harm in distilling respect for our earth and fellow members of society. They HAVE to make things like this mandatory because without it people start lacking in their social responsibilities, and YES that IS a part of being American!

It's people like you that refuse to give people like me canned goods and toiletries to send to the tent cities out in California that are popping up at astronomical numbers. I've been going around for weeks asking for donations, and even churches have refused to help!

As for the guy that said 700,000 soldiers would be needed for Iran. You ever research the war in Iraq or did you just look up US numbers? You do realize we wouldn't need to put near that number, seeing as we DO have allies. Those allies have numbers as well.

I'm all for this, then maybe the children that have socially inept parents can grow up and be responsible. Stop complaining! Most of you aren't even affected by this, and if your children are, put them in private school/university where, yes, the governments fingers do not touch as easily. You still have an option!

Edited to add - If you don't contribute don't expect anything in return. It's been a base philosophy of our country since it's start. It's like those wannabe sovereign activists. Don't like our laws? Don't drive on our streets, don't put your kids in our school system, unless you follow the law.

Also, this isn't illegal as it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. Well, maybe the college level, but you all do realize that you have NO rights until you turn 18/21/25? BY LAW? Ergo, the government has every right to enforce this in schools IT pays for!

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RcknShdw]

I was 14 years old when a Reform School Counselor placed a piece of paper in front of me asking me to sign away my rights.

It's still blank that page, 30 years later.

I was in reform school after being declared incorgible for questioning political propoganda and brainwashing techniques employed by the teachers in school.

I already had far better more accurate and detailed information and was genuinely curious if they were just retards or if they were evil.

Though they were dissapointed I wouldn't sign my rights away they assured me it didn't matter. They felt very optimistic they had me and the situation under control.

3 months later I earned the very rare distinction of getting kicked out of reform school.

You see the rights I felt I had not to be lied too, bullied, intimitaded, tortured, and brainwashed were the only rights I needed. I gave them to me. I excercized them.

10 months later the School Board looked across a table at me and said tell you what, even though we are required by law to provide you an education until you are 16, we won't complain if you don't...and cried uncle.

I have educated myself just fine, and done well for myself all my life excersizing my rights. Most people refuse to believe that the last grade I completed was 7th.

The government has a right to do anything it thinks it can get away with.

So do I!

I don't litter or spit on the sidewalk, I don't drive my car above the speed limit, while intoxicated or wrecklessly. I hold open doors for little old ladies, and generally any one walking up on them when I am coming in and out. I say hi and smile and ask everyone if they are having a nice day regardless of their job, sex, creed, religion, or social status.

I don't steal from anyone, I don't destroy anyone's property.

What do I need the government for? To do something about the roads and that's about it.

I also have a right not to pitch in for your dead weight or anyone elses, or your lack of civic awareness.

When I am at the beach I pick up all the trash around my general area. I don't care who left it there or curse them for doing it. I do it because I want my immediate environment clean. I do it because I have the right to take responsibility for what is going on around me.

What I don't do is walk up to the next man or woman and child and tell them to do the same.

They have a right to be lazy and generally not care and wait for someone else to rescue them.

I have the right to decide if I want to and the right to decide no way if someone tells me I have too.

Just like I did that day some silly little self important ignoramace asked me to sign my rights away.

Sign yours away any day you want but I can definately tell you, that you don't have the right to sign away mine, and I sure don't care what you think about that. After all I have a right not too!


[edit on 19/3/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by RcknShdw
Didn't Lincoln once say, "...that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."? You know, OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people?

It works both ways, people. I'm disgusted by half of the comments here in this thread. People complaining about not wanting to help others. IT'S CIVIL SERVICE! It's not shipping you out to Iran to go fight a war! It's making sure you go out for an hour out of the day and pick up all that trash you threw out of your Hummer. Oh, and did ANY of you, and I'm sure the vast majority of you are past college, read the damn bill? It's required ONLY during years of schooling, presumably for children in the public school system. I see no harm in distilling respect for our earth and fellow members of society. They HAVE to make things like this mandatory because without it people start lacking in their social responsibilities, and YES that IS a part of being American!

It's people like you that refuse to give people like me canned goods and toiletries to send to the tent cities out in California that are popping up at astronomical numbers. I've been going around for weeks asking for donations, and even churches have refused to help!

As for the guy that said 700,000 soldiers would be needed for Iran. You ever research the war in Iraq or did you just look up US numbers? You do realize we wouldn't need to put near that number, seeing as we DO have allies. Those allies have numbers as well.

I'm all for this, then maybe the children that have socially inept parents can grow up and be responsible. Stop complaining! Most of you aren't even affected by this, and if your children are, put them in private school/university where, yes, the governments fingers do not touch as easily. You still have an option!

Edited to add - If you don't contribute don't expect anything in return. It's been a base philosophy of our country since it's start. It's like those wannabe sovereign activists. Don't like our laws? Don't drive on our streets, don't put your kids in our school system, unless you follow the law.

Also, this isn't illegal as it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. Well, maybe the college level, but you all do realize that you have NO rights until you turn 18/21/25? BY LAW? Ergo, the government has every right to enforce this in schools IT pays for!

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RcknShdw]

DON'T TREAD ON ME! Does that mean anything to you!

I don't give a rats ass what YOU think is good for me! I got my own hopes and dreams and I am NOT going to assist with the tyrannical hopes and dreams of someone elses! I pay TAXES to have my neighborhood kept nice! I pay someone to pick up my trash! I pay TAXES for people who cannot afford utilities! I pay TAXES UP THE DAMN WAZOO! CHICK!

Now I am PAYING TAXES FOR WALL STREETS INCOMPETENCE!

The LAST THING I will do is allow them to get FREE LABOR OUT OF ME TOO! I already GOT A JOB! and OUR KIDS ARE NONE of YOUR Business!

The Government has NEVER got Jack Squat right what the hell gives YOU or ANYONE of THEM the right to put their nose in our business, they run our businesses now and they will tax your flatulence soon enough!

I am starting to think this is a load of crap! Like some silly ass experiment because I can't believe what I am hearing here in this thread by so many IGNORANT so called Americans.

Are Posts like mine going to get takked for IP addresses and those like mine get profiled for possible fema internment camps??

Have any of you EVER been to a communist country!

HAVE YOU!

Have any of you spoiled X generation sons and daughters ever put your blood on the line to fight for the right NOT to be subjected to such a STUPID Bill as this!?:??

What does it take?? Do you all need a candle to see the freakin SUN!

This idea whether you think it is cool or ok to explore is OUT OF THE QUESTION! PERIOD!

I can't believe some of you here bitching about equal rights for gays in one thread and usurping ALL our rights in this one..

Rahm Emmanual and Barack "Hollywood" Insane OBimBo

Can Kiss my BUTT and NO we won't GO

Thats it NO MORE public school, what the hell have the been filling these kids heads with. I never thougt I'd say this about Oswald and Booth but when it comes to whats going on now,,


Yeah uh huh

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I think your story of waiving your rights at 14 is BS, unless you don't live in America. You have protection rights as a minor, but any constitutional rights are NOT given to you until you reach 18 years of age. If you waived your rights at 14, you should have been able to vote then too.

Also, was this a MILITARY reform school or an "alternative" education school? One is backed by the US government the other is a private institution and I think the revelation of this fact would help me determine if your story is valid or misinforming.

I did not inquire or ask for detailed moral values from you. So I'm going to skip it all because it paints a rather skewed image that has no importance in this discussion. I brought up the targeted group, CHILDREN in school, and how it affects them and I agree that it should be that way. You also are no longer in the educational system, so I don't see how you are getting upset over something that does not concern you? Unless you own a H3 and toss your Starbucks cups out of the car.

Oh, did you sign your Social Security card, court papers, employment papers, your tax forms? Sorry to say, but there is a bit of truth to the corporate entity conspiracy. So, you already have signed away your rights to live in our beautiful country

reply to post by Aermacchi


Please hold off on the caps key. I think there's enough tension going on in this thread and "yelling" isn't going to get a good discussion but cause a flame war. Also, I think it's a little immature to respond to me with things like:

DON'T TREAD ON ME! Does that mean anything to you!

I don't give a rats ass what YOU think is good for me!

I really do hope you're talking about the government and not myself personally. But I think your response is irrational and a little over protective of your conceived rights (ones you think you have but actually don't). Did you ever put your foot down to stop any of this from happening?

Also, yes, I spent time in China with my older brother, over a year. It's actually not as bad as people paint it. Most of the bad stuff comes from major blunders that get televised (but our country's get hidden, think about that one) and from major CITIES. Rural China is a country in it's own right. But what Obama is doing is far from communism and socialism. If you think it IS one of those two, you obviously have never lived in a country of those two governments or learned about them.

And, yes, I have fought for my rights. I have shed blood over my rights. I think a lot of young people around my age have. You don't have to be in the military out across the ocean at war to shed blood for your rights.

Like I said to the other guy, if you don't agree with the laws, the doors that-a-way. You don't HAVE to live in America, and there are some WONDERFUL countries we have in this pamphlet! Let me show you...

PS - I don't understand the use of CHICK! in your post, but if you were referring to me, I have to say you're obviously wrong

Edited to ad: Also, you're not paying for all of these bailouts, China and other purchasers of US Treasury Bonds are. As for taxes, the only demographic seeing a mass increase in taxes right now are smokers. I went from paying ~$4 a pack to over $6 in two weeks.

Would you kindly point me in the direction of these bailout taxes so I can budget how much to save?

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RcknShdw]

Originally posted by RcknShdw
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I think your story of waiving your rights at 14 is BS, unless you don't live in America. You have protection rights as a minor, but any constitutional rights are NOT given to you until you reach 18 years of age. If you waived your rights at 14, you should have been able to vote then too.

Also, was this a MILITARY reform school or an "alternative" education school? One is backed by the US government the other is a private institution and I think the revelation of this fact would help me determine if your story is valid or misinforming.

I did not inquire or ask for detailed moral values from you. So I'm going to skip it all because it paints a rather skewed image that has no importance in this discussion. I brought up the targeted group, CHILDREN in school, and how it affects them and I agree that it should be that way. You also are no longer in the educational system, so I don't see how you are getting upset over something that does not concern you? Unless you own a H3 and toss your Starbucks cups out of the car.

Oh, did you sign your Social Security card, court papers, employment papers, your tax forms? Sorry to say, but there is a bit of truth to the corporate entity conspiracy. So, you already have signed away your rights to live in our beautiful country

I have no reason to misinform anyone about anything. My mother acting as my sole legal gaurdian signed away her rights to me to make me a ward of the state. The institution was a state funded private corporation run reform school. The paper that they wanted me to sign implied that I had rights to take away simply for the psychological purpose of me acknowledging they had all rights over me as a tool of mental conditioning.

You are missing the point though. I grant my rights, not the state, not you, not my next door neighbor. Conversely people choose not to exercise rights they are given every day.

The reality is rights given to you are privelages. Something like the Patriot Act comes along and tells you that. They aren't rights if the people who give them to you take them away, they are privelages.

The only person who can give you rights is you yourself. Others may attempt and succeed in holding you accountable for how you use your rights but that is their right to attempt to do so. You have a right to defeat their attempts in trying to hold you responsible for them.

I can tell you honestly that my next stop after reform school was an in home tutor sent by the CIA. My home was in suburban Washginton D.C., I can tell you that I was expelled from three additional insititutions after my tutor cleared me for a return to organized forms of public education, though one of the three was another privately run with public money facility.

In answer to all your other questions no, no, no, no, no and no.

Would I in the future, no, no, no, no, no and no.

You don't have to tell me that there is truth to the corporate conspiracy theory. In my world it's not a theory. It's a reality. Believe it or not my biggest fans and supporters are the powers that be. They very much appreciate the insights and the talents of someone who won't bend a knee.

I have six children the first I fathered was at 14! Do I want them brainwashed and puppets to the state and pawns for the uber greedy?

I was born and raised in the United States of America and as far as I know, I am one of the few free citizens living in it.

You should be working on gaining yours not giving it and other people's away.

You can only suspect how the nation is run. I know how the nation is run and I knew it just as well at 14. I started learning how the system was run and by whom and for what when I was 6. I also learned no one was going to give me freedom or rights. They always have been and will be things you have to assert for yourself and fight for. Every last day of your life!

Be part of the solution and not part of the problem. The solution is not pledging your time to the community, the community is a corporation and exists for profit.

They are like Las Vegas, if you really like them, just send them a check in the mail. It's stupid to play their game. They are the only ones who win by house rules. That's what the rules are all about, making sure the house wins and you loose.

Go to outback steak house and learn the motto, no rules just right and then follow your own conscious and take responsibility for you.

Do no harm, and don't let anyone trick you into doing it either.

Peace

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If it was legal emancipation from your legal guardians, in your stated case your mother, it makes sense. Emancipation grants you constitutional rights. Remember, in this country, you are granted rights by being a US citizen, however you must fulfill certain obligations before the government accepts and acknowledges said rights legally.

However, if you didn't sign any of those forms, then you don't get to express any of those "privileges" granted to you. The US government grants you rights if you pledge the constitution, etc. Common law may not work for or against you, but you also have no legal right to use anything funded by, created by, ran by (etc) the government or any legal protection by the government. Dangerous waters, but I respect you if that's how you chose to live.

But stating as such, unless the parents waive their rights and grant emancipation to their children (which can cause a whole slew of problems in itself), said children have no rights until they reach 18 years of age (which is a maturity issue to understand the rights you have been given). I can see where you're coming from, but we live in America, we have to play by her rules.

reply to post by Aermacchi


Hitler had a very productive mandatory voulenteer program.
He squandered it.

Originally posted by RcknShdw
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

If it was legal emancipation from your legal guardians, in your stated case your mother, it makes sense. Emancipation grants you constitutional rights. Remember, in this country, you are granted rights by being a US citizen, however you must fulfill certain obligations before the government accepts and acknowledges said rights legally.

However, if you didn't sign any of those forms, then you don't get to express any of those "privileges" granted to you. The US government grants you rights if you pledge the constitution, etc. Common law may not work for or against you, but you also have no legal right to use anything funded by, created by, ran by (etc) the government or any legal protection by the government. Dangerous waters, but I respect you if that's how you chose to live.

But stating as such, unless the parents waive their rights and grant emancipation to their children (which can cause a whole slew of problems in itself), said children have no rights until they reach 18 years of age (which is a maturity issue to understand the rights you have been given). I can see where you're coming from, but we live in America, we have to play by her rules.

In reality no, I was never officially emancipated. Nor can a minor be emancipated until at least 16. My mother was asked by the state to release her rights to me to cede me to them as a ward. At 15 when the state had exhausted every resource at their disposal in their attempts to incorporate me they sought my oral confirmation that I would not press my privelage to a state sponsored education to the age of 16. They orally acknowledged they would not exert their privelage to force me to participate in a state sponsored eductation. The State then transfered me from their ward back to my mother's authority. I left home a short time later on my own authority to travel the United States and Canada playing the drums in rock n roll bar bands. The only heed I gave to laws of the land that would impede my freedoms was how to circumvent them. I gave myself the right to do so.

I was born in the United States of America, it was not a voluntary thing on my part. The United States of America as published in the text books and brochures was not and is not the United States of America as it really is. You are bound by the promise of their rules, they are not bound to deliver on the promise of those rules.

Make no mistake about it, behind the front door of every Beverly Hills mansion lives a criminal. Yes a criminal with an impressive very legitimate looking front, whether it be a movie studio, a bank, a law office, or succesfull retail or manufacturing business. They got rich by breaking a lot of rules, they stay rich by breaking a lot of rules. When they are really rich they can afford to select the politicians and bankroll them, that you elect, who then legalize their thefts and crimes by making laws to support them. They have finally reached a semi legal status if you get around the rigging the elections thing but they have hardly reached the moral status the veneer of their institutions and social standing create an illusion for you to believe they have. The richest people in the world from the Queen of England to the Rockefellers and Rothschild and Bush Families all have their original fortunes based in drug smuggling, pirating, theft and extortion, and that's before they move up to the big leagues of making a fortune off of organized war.

If you want to live a moral life chuck the laws and false and manipulative values of patriotism the tell people it's allright to kill, murder, rape and mame in the name of God and Country.

Develop your own code, a code based on do no harm, a code that you can believe in and makes sense and follow it come what may. Beleive me when I say if you are a decent person with a heart you will end up doing a lot more good and helping a lot more people than you will following the laws of the corporate Masters. That's all the United States is and has been since the 1930's a corporation. A monetarily and morally bankrupt corporation and it gets poorer all the time. Do real good with your life, and don't imagine that what the powers that be tell you is real good, is real good. It's real good for the bottom line. Their profit.

I am not trying to tell you what to do or not to do. What I am really trying to say is decide what is right for you. Don't be so arrogant to assume you know it's right or best for others. You know it ticks you off when other people decide that for you!

Live free or die trying and you won't have many regrets.

Live by the governments rules, on the government dole and you will have nothing but.

I buy plenty of gasoline and cigarettes and drop plenty of money on toll bridges and roads. I pay my utilitiy bills. I am paying for more than my fair share of usage that way. It doesn't take 667 departments and agencies of the Federal Government and millions of employees to give you the little bit that you or I or any uses. It takes them to make sure you never get free of all the nonsense that power for the sake of power and control creates.

Our forefathers sure didn't want that and were very specific in wanting a weak central Federal Government.

They didn't expect handouts and gaurantees in life. They weren't looking for anyone to gaurantee no one called them an ugly name because of where they were from or what they looked like. They weren't looking for anyone to come rescue them if they got in to deep in a raging creek or a wild wilderness. They didn't need the government to pull a tooth or deliver a baby. They just really wanted someone who could tell the people of North Carolina, the people of South Carolina build a road to your border, let them cross the border and it would be smart to keep building the road from there on your side.

All this nonsense that exists today is nonsense, and the last thing they would have considered is asking a bear to stop mauling them so they could go do community service. They helped their neighbors when they wanted to and could.

They believed in something different called ask and you shall recieve. They didn't believe in demand and order and you shall get.

Ah the good old days.

You all that think this bill is benign are fooling yourselves. It has been amended as follows:

H.Amdt. 49: Amendment to prohibit organizations from attempting to influence... Amendment to prohibit organizations from attempting to influence legislation; organize or engage in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes; and assist, promote, or deter union organizing.

and

SEC. 1511. OTHER DEPARTMENTS. Section 162 (42 U.S.C. 12622) is amended-- (1) in subsection (a)--
(A) in paragraph (1)--

(i) in subparagraph (A), by inserting ‘National’ before ‘Civilian Community Corps’; and

(ii) in subparagraph (B)

(i), by striking ‘the registry established by’ and all that follows through the semicolon and inserting ‘the registry established by section 1143a of title 10, United States Code;’;

(B) in paragraph (2)(A),
by striking ‘to be recommended for appointment’ and inserting ‘from which individuals may be selected for appointment by the Director’; and

(C) in paragraph (3), by inserting ‘National’ before ‘Civilian Community Corps’; and (2) by striking subsection (b).

reply to post by RcknShdw


I contribute to my 'social responsibility' every year when I pay my taxes that go to supporting people like the octomom, and other neer do wells.

Dear Senator Martinez,

The new Administration in Washington and the new Congress seated with it are causing many citizens growing alarm and panic with legislation like H.R. 1388 regarding mandatory/volunteer/required Civil Service along with a nationalized central Identification System to promote it and outsourcing it to be run by contracting it’s administration to a non-government Corporation.

The language used in this bill is something I would have never thought or sought to see in the United States of America.

It is unconscionable that the citizen’s elected Representatives have grown so distant from the average American’s thinking, desires and needs that such legislation could even be crafted, let alone co-sponsored, let alone being brought up for a vote.

I urge you Senator as someone who knows all to well the shortcomings and perils to liberty and prosperity that socialism and communism lead too, to not only vote against this bill but to devote as much of your time and focus to encouraging your Senate colleagues to vote against this bill.

Senator Martinez additionally I humbly request you reconsider your decision not to run for a second term in the United States Senate. I can appreciate your published sentiments that as a Republican in the minority, that your ability to be effective and craft and enact useful legislation is your motivating concern.

Sir, Americans need you now more than ever. Not to craft and enact legislation but to remain vigil and in open opposition to defeat unconstitutional and tyrannical legislation like H.R. 1388.

If a strong and vocal opposition can’t be maintained in the House and the Senate during these difficult and troubling times where the majority seems to favor socialist solutions then our way of life, along with our liberties and values that once made this nation the shining example of people and government throughout the world, will be lost forever.

America needs you Senator Martinez, it needs you to safeguard America and ensure its survival and it needs you to help defeat H.R. 1388, America desperately needs you to support H.R. 833 to create congressional oversight and auditing provisions of the Federal Reserve.

These are the House of Representatives version of these Bills and both warrant the citizen’s representatives representing the citizens and not the corporate interests fighting for and against these bills or the desire on behalf of too many representatives to create more government for the sake of government itself.

Thank you in advance for your consideration in regards to these vital matters.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Constituent & Citizen

Perhaps we should all cut & paste that letter, and change it to suit our representatives and send it out.

Nicely done

Originally posted by shrike071
Perhaps we should all cut & paste that letter, and change it to suit our representatives and send it out.

Nicely done

Now you are thinking my friend! That's exactly why I posted it.

Copy and paste, reword, add some concerns of your own.

The main thing is to take advantage of your right to contact your representatives and make your oppinion known.

At the end of the day we Americans have no one to blame but ourselves for abandoning our responsibility not to buy foreign made goods, not to support bad foreign policy and un needed wars, and not to turn a blind eye to the foreign and corporate interests that have blocked our access to the representatives we never use, that then have their agendas dominated by the people who do weigh in, which are primarily only those foreign and corporate interests.

Washington really is under the impression that Americans don't care what they do. It really is our fault for not letting them know we care. Not just once in a while by day after day, week after week, year after year, congress after congress.

Toeing the party lines blinds us to what really effects us as we bicker amongst one another rooting for our team of choice, while both teams have proven they could care less about us, just their own self serving agendas that we always have to pay and suffer for!

Fight the good fight! Make it worth the price you pay!

Originally posted by RcknShdw

I think there's enough tension going on in this thread and "yelling" isn't going to get a good discussion but cause a flame war. Also, I think it's a little immature to respond to me with things like:

DON'T TREAD ON ME! Does that mean anything to you!

I don't give a rats ass what YOU think is good for me!

DON'T TREAD ON ME! Does that mean anything to you!

I don't give a rats ass what YOU think is good for me!

I really do hope you're talking about the government and not myself personally. But I think your response is irrational and a little over protective of your conceived rights (ones you think you have but actually don't). Did you ever put your foot down to stop any of this from happening?

Who do you think the US Government is? US or our elected Representatives?

ones you think you have but actually don't

Excuse me? which ones do I think I have and really don't. I mean since you are a mind reader, I would like to know if you're any better at that then sylvia brown

Also, yes, I spent time in China with my older brother, over a year. It's actually not as bad as people paint it. Most of the bad stuff comes from major blunders that get televised (but our country's get hidden, think about that one) and from major CITIES. Rural China is a country in it's own right. But what Obama is doing is far from communism and socialism. If you think it IS one of those two, you obviously have never lived in a country of those two governments or learned about them.

No need to think about that one I already know our MSN is getting as bad as China's and if you don't think it's so bad there then maybe YOU should go BACK there and quit suggesting I leave America, something I would do after people like you get finished dismantling it.

And, yes, I have fought for my rights. I have shed blood over my rights. I think a lot of young people around my age have. You don't have to be in the military out across the ocean at war to shed blood for your rights.

No you can always just "say" you did on the internet like I believe YOU are

Like I said to the other guy, if you don't agree with the laws, the doors that-a-way. You don't HAVE to live in America,

I don't agree to laws that are unconstitutional chick and THIS bill IS

PS - I don't understand the use of CHICK! in your post, but if you were referring to me, I have to say you're obviously wrong

Well why would you think it would be obvious your Avatar looks very effeminate which suggested to me you were most likely a Girl

Obviously

Edited to ad: Also, you're not paying for all of these bailouts, China and other purchasers of US Treasury Bonds are. As for taxes, the only demographic seeing a mass increase in taxes right now are smokers. I went from paying ~$4 a pack to over $6 in two weeks.

If the process yeild a loss then Treasury will have to pay interest to the bond holders each year which comes from the tax payers.

In fact the tax payers are paying interest from day one the Treausry sells US Treasury paper to bond holders. Bond holders lend the money to the US for a price and that price is paid by tax papers. It's not free money.

The only way for this to work is to have Treasury pay way above market price for the toxic assets. The first bailout Bush signed 75 Billion was lost to assets that were WORTHLESS!

That money was WASTED, LOST!

Had they pay market price the banks would take the lost instantly and go bankrupt straight. This is not a liquidity issue as many suggest. This is an insolvency issue and buying at above market price is what this bailout really is about.






[edit on 24-3-2009 by Aermacchi]