H.R. 1388 - "Required Service" and "Mandatory Volunteer"

reply to post by John Matrix


In the above post, you said:

"I for one would NEVER bring a child into this world to one day have to look them in the face and tell them they have to go and join the military, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Having a child under those circumstances is insane."

I suppose every child,born after 1917 was born to insane parents then, in the US, since that year, the selective service was enacted, requiring (another word for mandatory) young men who turn 18 to register to be drafted (another word for mandatory) to die in a war.

My own son will have to so next month.

I would much rather my son be allowed to go to college and perform his 100 hours, then have to sign up to die for other men's battles. However, as it stands, we already mandate citizens lives in our country. This POTENTIAL mandate has more positives than a draft, and the draft is already mandated.

I don't see a problem with discussing the concept, and seeing what pans out. There is enormous good and positive to be had with a well thought out program.

My concern is that we have idiots running our country, who do not know what they are doing.

The concept to me is fine. Once enacted, I may change my mind if the program is not in line with what Obama proposed on the campaign trail.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I may change my mind if the program is not in line with what Obama proposed on the campaign trail.

Uh? What do you think Obama has been doing since he took office? Almost, nothing he said on the campaign trail was actually anything like what he is doing now.

Also, what do you propose happen if someone refuses to serve in this mandatory service?

A fine?

what if someone refuses to pay the fines?

You people scare me!

[edit on 18-3-2009 by 2 cents]

Originally posted by 2 cents

Also, what do you propose happen if someone refuses to serve in this mandatory service?

A fine?

what if someone refuses to pay the fines?

They should go in the stocks - where their former friends and neighbours cna show just what they think of nasty self centred arrogants nobodies who have no respect or consideration for others!

Why wouldn't someone want to give something back to the community and help others? And if we all volunteered to do it, they're be no need for compulsion


I wonder how many regular posters to ATS also regularly do voluntary work of some kind to benefit others and/or their community?

(And before you ask, my answer's in my signature!)

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by John Matrix

 

In the above post, you said:

"I for one would NEVER bring a child into this world to one day have to look them in the face and tell them they have to go and join the military, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Having a child under those circumstances is insane."

I suppose every child,born after 1917 was born to insane parents then, in the US, since that year, the selective service was enacted, requiring (another word for mandatory) young men who turn 18 to register to be drafted (another word for mandatory) to die in a war.

My own son will have to so next month.

You misunderstood me. Those people you use as an example to discredit what I said had their children long before 1917 and they had no idea they would be bringing children into the world only to face a draft. After 1917? Well, if there was a draft after WW1 and before WW2, then yes, people were nuts to have kids under those conditions. A slave bringing a child into a world to be a slave is insane.

I was speaking from a position of having foreknowledge, which the people in your scenario did not have.

Your son did not have to sign up. No one twisted his arm. No one forced him. That's the difference.

Both of your examples are irrelevant to my position.

[edit on 18/3/09 by John Matrix]

reply to post by Essan


It is you that has no consideration of others!

You are the one who has self centered thinking - thinking that your values should be imposed on others!

Service should be voluntary. Period.

Mandatory service is servitude.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by 2 cents]

I remember when the draft was lifted after the Vietnam war. I thought is was a giant leap forward towards a more civilized western world. Service should be voluntary. If recruitment is down the gov. should look to update their archaic policies for recruitment, the treatment of service personnel and treatment of Vets.

Mandatory service is forced slavery, plain and simple.

Now I have nothing against people volunteering, I have done it myself on multiple occasions when I could, but "forced volunteering" is not right. The whole point of volunteering is that it's an act of your own will, being forced into it is nothing more than slavery. Would the emancipators back in the Civil War have said what was happening was right if the slave owners said they were just "forced-volunteering" their time? Of course not, and although this new idea wouldn't be controlling you ALL of the time (though thats possible), it would be for SOME of your time and is the acceptance of government-sponsored slave labor really just the difference between part-time and full-time??

Originally posted by hypervigilant
..... Of course we had a President that was a charismatic war hero, who during his inauguration stated, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".... And twenty years later the "me generation", "greed is good" and Ronald Reagan.... The period that opened the door for what we now have to live with.... Another Kennedy Quote, " I don't ask why, but why not?"

What an inspiration and last of the great presidents John Kennedy was. I was born in "62" so I did not experience JFK until later but my mom loved JFK and I have since learned what a good man he was.

It is this type of inspiration that we need and need to teach our children. Its starts with teaching our children the ways of virtue and goodness from helping others. Teach them to volunteer.

Reagan was the beginning of this current nightmare...the me generation...the greed generation...the generation that learned to not have empathy or heart but just go for the animal instinct of chasing the cheese.

Lets learn to chase something greater.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by LoneGunMan]

You know the real problem here is that people look to the government for solutions instead of themselves.

Doing things for other people and the community is great, but do we really want the government at the point of a gun making people serve?

You say "oh, at the point of a gun is such an exaggeration", but when you refuse and refuse to pay the fines where will it end up do you think?

reply to post by Essan


Working, taking care of property and paying all the taxes associated with working and taking care of property and paying more taxes, and purchasing things for our families, and purchasing things for your property, which all cost us more in taxes (which we PAY) are all acts of slavery, and are in fact community service.

Originally posted by 2 cents

Mandatory service is servitude.

What about school? Is that not much the same thing?

People are quite happy for their children to go to school for 14 years or whatever, but object to them having a further period whereby they receive more 'citizenship' education, and help the community at the same time.

Personally I'd abolish compulsory schooling since it seems a total waste for most kids these days, and just have compulsory community service. At least we'd get some benefit from that.


btw the draft bill on which this thread is based is simply one to look into the practicalities of a proposed possible scheme. Maybe we could save them a whole load of trouble and just send them this thread?

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Essan]

reply to post by Essan


Yes, public school is indoctrination of children at the hands of government agencies. The educational system is pathetic as it does nothing to really educate anyone in anything except in being an obedient serving slave.

Home schooling or private school is the only way around it.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by 2 cents]

reply to post by Stella Lotus


The problem is that it is not the WE that put Obama in power. It was the THEM.

They did this by having Bush be such a nightmare that anything would be better and he placed all the tools for Obama to pick up and use. They control the media and therefore control at a basic level your opinion and decision making.

Why do you think the Republicans chose McCain? Or why McCain chose Palin?

They threw that election on purpose. Obama was not our choice...he was the only viable choice the masses felt they had to make change.

We don't have to be divided against each other. We can unite against THEM.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by 2 cents

Mandatory service is servitude.

What about school? Is that not much the same thing?

People are quite happy for their children to go to school for 14 years or whatever, but object to them having a further period whereby they receive more 'citizenship' education, and help the community at the same time.

Who says people are happy about it? The costs associated with an education are enormous.

That position does nothing to advance the argument for forced service.

What is the purpose of this service? The gov. has our kids for 12 or more years in which they have plenty of time to teach them about community service. So people should pay for the school system's failure to do their job?

Certainly reasonable people can come up with something better.

Text Navy

This HR 1388 will force our children to prepare for the rebuidling of America...
and, yes, make it Mandatory!!!
This is socialism in action.
I do have a feeling that it will be passed. The list of supporters grows by the hour.
It is all encompassing, in that there are stipulations written within the body of the bill, that do not allow for discremination based on race,age, religious affiliation or ability to speak and understand English. All young adults between the ages of 17 and 25 are required to participate.
In short....the new American Youth Camp system.
Be afraid....very afraid!!!

Ok, the words Mandatory and Volunteer DO NOT FIT TOGETHER!

If we are going to have mandatory service, then I expect us to go full commie. Because if not then we're just getting the worst of both worlds. How about either freedom (preferably) or security (reimbursement in some form by the govt like tax writeoff or better services/welfare), but not neither, which is what we are getting towards.

The whole idea gets under my skin. Ironic that a black guy is now trying to enslave a majority white country.

Originally posted by notsomadhatter
Text Navy

This HR 1388 will force our children to prepare for the rebuidling of America...
and, yes, make it Mandatory!!!
This is socialism in action.
I do have a feeling that it will be passed. The list of supporters grows by the hour.
It is all encompassing, in that there are stipulations written within the body of the bill, that do not allow for discremination based on race,age, religious affiliation or ability to speak and understand English. All young adults between the ages of 17 and 25 are required to participate.
In short....the new American Youth Camp system.
Be afraid....very afraid!!!

Exactly!!! No one in their right minds would "Volunteer" for what is being suggested in the FORM it will be carried out.

As for the educational system, I took a stand. My daughter was homeschooled from the 4th grade on, and I paid a price that I felt was worth it. Left a situation where I was threatened with jail and a 17 year old kid was threatened with being sent to a foster home, because her dad wouldn't stand up for either of us. The state of Ohio can eat crap for all I care.

Should such servitude pass as law, I again will make a stand against the infringement on my freedoms and those of my daughter...she knows what it is to help from the heart, but she also realizes that standing for your rights to live without governmental interference in your civic or private lives is worth the risk, and there are always alternatives for those of us that choose freedom instead of control.

So don't be afraid...turn the fear into courage to stand for your beliefs, never give in!

~Holly

reply to post by John Matrix


As I understand it, if my son does not sign up for selective service when he turns eighteen, he will be jailed. That sounds very mandatory to me, not voluntary at all.

Originally posted by notsomadhatter
Text Navy

This HR 1388 will force our children to prepare for the rebuidling of America...
and, yes, make it Mandatory!!!
This is socialism in action.

It's not socialism, it's dictatorship and it's fascist. Click the link below at the end of my signature statements for some good info.

I don't mind working for the gov. as long as I have a say in what kind of work it is and as long as I get paid for it.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by John Matrix

 

As I understand it, if my son does not sign up for selective service when he turns eighteen, he will be jailed. That sounds very mandatory to me, not voluntary at all.

Where do you live? Israel? I haven't heard of this in the USA. But I've been away for a while.