UK Baroness: "The constant accusation of Anti-Semitism to silence Israels critics is vindictive"

Dooper, what is your opinion on matters of honour ? Is battle just a means to an end for you ? Or do you register the deeper meaning of every shot you take ?

Originally posted by mmiichael


This forum is swarming with outright Jew Haters.

But they've been conditioned by political correctness so that when they want to express their bile their typing fingers goes to the Z key.

One can only wonder what kind of personal misery drives them.

Ardent students of anything that Jews have ever said or done that can be somehow dot connected to show vast concealed plots, secret controls, hidden global expansion agenda.

If you remove the usual Kiddie Konspiracy stuff, one sees a people who were almost completely wiped out in Europe, half of whom now tenuously try to hold on to a tiny strip of land in as hostile a neighbourhood as one could choose, that they've been having to defend for 60 years.

Really not much in the way of achievement for a group of land grabbing people I keep being told control the politics and wealth in the world.

Human affairs and history don't reduce to storybook bad guys and good guys. Simple people get confused by complex situations and relations. A nice villain, a nice scapegoat, is always the easiest way to get some kind of handle on what you don't know about and could never really understand.

Much more I could say, but lecturing to blocks of wood yields few results.


Mike F








[edit on 17-3-2009 by mmiichael]

Sounds like a pretty paranoid world you live in there my friend.

A rather unique take on it. You know the kind of take that convinces a certain group of people disproportionate responses and extreme remedies are required. The kind of people who then conspire how to expand and gain more and more control with an ever watchful eye on who ever might possibly be out to stop, thwart or hinder them.

Ultimately when you cry racism, you are saying to you the group agenda you are supporting is all about race. Otherwise you wouldn't be boiling it down to just that little bit of justification and validation to what in such people's minds amounts in fact to a race. If you can just accomplish this and that fast enough and quick enough before anyone else that we haven't chosen to include or doesn't want to be included we win!

You are the racist my friend, and I think what most people are trying to say is slow down, smell the roses, hug someone, commit to and do a random act of kindness to someone you don't know, for the only purpose of seeing someone smile and nothing else.

Find reasons and ways to make peace. If Israel put a fraction of the American money it puts in to weapons instead to winning the hearts and minds of people it would rather bully and intimidate through accusations and words of steel backed up by gauntlets and assaults of steel, it would have already had peace.

But fixated on race and the race all you can seem to imagine is what you might loose as opposed what you might gain in stopping the excuses and justifications for aggression and confrontation and trying a seriously different approach, with some real consistency, with actions aimed at making it work for once instead of actions aimed at undermining it for once.

People have to make sincere efforts to get along, not excuses not too.

The people of the world are trying to tell Israel and Jews something that they don't want to listen too and insist on misinterpreting for reasons that they imagine are good for their race.

That's why in your mind any criticism in regards to Israel's actions ought to be dismissed as racist.

They ought to be considered instead as some well meant observations from people who have both tried to be friends, and forced into being friends who don't see the Nation of Israel putting that to good use.

I liken Israel to an alcoholic. It has a chronic problem born out of a deep seeded compulsion. You want to try to help as a friend but after a while you realize all you are doing is enabling them to perpetuate the problem.

I would feel guilty too I imagine if I had received so much help from so many people and still couldn't do the right thing and get along with people.

It's pretty sad. All the money we have thrown at Israel to get this handled and all we get is accusations of impropriety on our part?

Wow!

You just don't get it my friend.

I agree that people are way to quick to call you an anti-semite if you speak negative about Israel. The Israelis are not saints.

But at the same time the Zionist movement was created by those pushing toward New World Order. The banks, masons, "Illuminati", the Jesuits, etc, they are the ones that started the Zionist movement.

Everything done for a reason, they moved them to Isreal intentionally to stir up problems with the Palestinitan Arabs.

Now, everyone either blames "the Jews" in this never ending dispute, or sides with "the Jews", and it causes controversy. Very little rational thinking going on here, it's people blindly picking a side for the most part. And there is very little middle ground on this issue.

Either you are an "anti-semite terrorist sympathizer" or you side with the "murderous and oppressive Zionists who stole the land"

But it's all a smoke screen if you ask me. This is what "they" want. They want everyone divided about it, because then nobody will lay the blame where it truly belongs. At those that deliberarely set it all up in the first place.

reply to post by TrueBrit

Matters of honor? I honor my country, my fellow citizens, fellow soldiers, the innocent young, the weak elderly, and the unable. My honor, or moral point is victory over those who would war on these.

I stated that the truth is brutal. Time doesn't change a truth, no matter how "advanced" or "enlightened" one has convinced himself he has become. A truth is a truth, and a truth, or principle, once proven without fail, throughout the millennia, is ageless.

One doesn't have to like these truths, or principles, one certainly doesn't have to embrace these truths. But to ignore these truths from discomfort is to put oneself, willingly, and possibly unknowingly, at risk. Worse, these "enlightened" often likewise put those around them at risk. Group-think is no-think.

As far as my shots, each time, the only thing I felt at the moment was the recoil of my weapon. And each time one fell, my thought was, "one less, and (thus) one less threat."

I did notice however, that when things started going tits up, the "enlightened" dropped faster than bird crap in a downdraft.

They ignored the truths.

And that denial kills like no other.


[edit on 17-3-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by dooper
I stated that the truth is brutal. Time doesn't change a truth, no matter how "advanced" or "enlightened" one has convinced himself he has become. A truth is a truth, and a truth, or principle, once proven without fail, throughout the millennia, is ageless.

One doesn't have to like these truths, or principles, one certainly doesn't have to embrace these truths. But to ignore these truths from discomfort is to put oneself, willingly, and possibly unknowingly, at risk. Worse, these "enlightened" often likewise put those around them at risk. Group-think is no-think.

Thanks for your service and dedication to our country. The basis and rise of life on earth is violent to the core. I agree with you, if you are sent to fight a war, you fight to win. The fact that you would never intentionally harm the young or elderly is probably the only code you should live by out there, and if I were in your shoes I'd think the same way. I would want to scare the hell out of them, perhaps dip bullets in pigs blood. I do not trust what our government has become, but I support our troops and I know that they are sworn to protect the constitution and their families and neighbors. I know they would recognize if the government is hijacked and they are ordered to turn their guns on their own neighbors, and that they will truly defend our nation. Thanks again.

Baroness Tongue, well, kind words fail me.

This little siren is no princess, very vile and repugnant. Her views and opinions on Israel, which I've had the pleasure of being in the audience of, border line on controversial and old fashion.

Honestly, I believe the Baroness does not support the right of Israel to exist. She exists on, what we call, the old right - those in Britain who were reluctant to acknowledge Israel after the Zionist terrorist campaign during the British mandate of Palestine.

Historical fact: Britain abstained for the vote to recognise the creation of Israel.

reply to post by infinite


Illuminating, Infinite.

Well said. Point well made.

Star for you.

Fine words indeed from a hired killer. Isreal is doing what it dose best, and that is using others to fight its cause. If the US did not back it Israel would not be around now. The fact is the Israelis are good at killing and silencing the opposition. Thats just not Palestinians, but Americans, and anyone else who gets in their way even their own people.

Israel is hell bent on starting ww3 it has no intention of wanting peace and it will sacrifice every last American to get what it wants. Too bad that some Americans are that dumb that they cannot see this. Other than oil the US has no strategic interests in the ME and never will. Its only because the US is contolled by Israel that it is involved in the ME.

Lets not forget it was Israel that killed over 3k on 9/11 just to get the US to invade and occupy Iraq and frame the Muslims for 9/11. There very good at fitting others up for crimes they have committed. The question is what are they going to do to the US to get it to attack Iran and will the American populace let themselves be dragged into yet another war not of their making in which they have nothing to gain but alot to loose.

But back on track. No other nation has used the law to hide its history such as Israel has done. One can only assume that there is some great lie or deceit that they don't want to be discovered. And what other nation has the equivalent of the ADL none that I can think of. And furthermore why is it that when any individual, group or Government questions the actions of the Israelis that they are automatically labbeled anti semitic and Jew haters.

Again it is nothing more to hide the truth, that Israel wants to continue to blackmail the World but the US more than anyone else. That they want the lies and deceit to go undiscovered so they can continue with their extortion, corruption and murder. If any other nation acted in this way the Governments of the World would have repsonded accordingly yet this has not happened but it will eventually. We are already starting to see that people are turning against Israel, that they can no longer use the same old diatribe and one day they may go to far and it will be their undoing and the undoing of America.

Infinite, pehaps Britain did not want to recognise Israel simply for the fact it was a nation formed out of terrorism yes. Its strange how some here are indignant and outraged about Muslim terrorists but are quite comfortable with Israeli terrorism.

Hey we got the whole family here. We got the holocaust deniers, reverse racism accusers, anti-Zionists, and the rest of the stooges. Good, one big scapegoating family. Now, the next step you guys want to take is to publicly blame the Jews for the economic crisis and the failed war in Iraq. This will allow you to build and organize a base for your future political party, which will meet in a beer hall or some kind of establishment like that. You will want to appoint a leader, and that will be someone who shouts and screams rhetoric until the masses can't help but believe him. After convincing the common people and securing the support of the white elite, you guys can begin to take power. And because of a weak president and depressed country eventually your leader will be in-charge. Since you guys are a bunch of raving lunatics, six million million people will die in a brutal genocide. AND THIS WHOLE CYCLE OF BS WILL START OVER AGAIN. fin.

Foundling, how about discussing the thread and not the posters, just like the rules state OK.

reply to post by magicmushroom


How about letting the mods do their job. ok.

The posts on this thread are a testimony of Anti-Semitic thought. There are always two sides to the story. Neither of the sides are angels.

No wonder they play the racism card, it's quite apparent it's true IMO.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
The posts on this thread are a testimony of Anti-Semitic thought. There are always two sides to the story. Neither of the sides are angels.

No wonder they play the racism card, it's quite apparent it's true IMO.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but my participation on the thread is to voice displeasure with Israeli domestic and foreign policy.

This definitely makes me me anti-current Israeli domestic and foreign policy.

Here is a thought that would make everyone more comfortable on both sides of the issue.

I humbly request that the State of Israel please change it's name to the Nation of Semite.

If the nation of Israel would kindly do this then never again will anyone discussing the domestic and foreign politics of Israel ever be mislabeled by this label.

Thanks for contributing to the political discussion!

Originally posted by Founding
Hey we got the whole family here. We got the holocaust deniers, reverse racism accusers, anti-Zionists, and the rest of the stooges. Good, one big scapegoating family. Now, the next step you guys want to take is to publicly blame the Jews for the economic crisis and the failed war in Iraq. This will allow you to build and organize a base for your future political party, which will meet in a beer hall or some kind of establishment like that. You will want to appoint a leader, and that will be someone who shouts and screams rhetoric until the masses can't help but believe him. After convincing the common people and securing the support of the white elite, you guys can begin to take power. And because of a weak president and depressed country eventually your leader will be in-charge. Since you guys are a bunch of raving lunatics, six million million people will die in a brutal genocide. AND THIS WHOLE CYCLE OF BS WILL START OVER AGAIN. fin.

Thanks for the summary and a chilling peek into a possible future.

I spotted at least one 9/11 Truther and a bible thumper to add to your list of Usual Suspects. If this thread goes on long enough we can expect the views from a guy who has proof the dreaded Zionists are actually reptilian aliens.

It looks like there will be plenty of volunteers for the upcoming 'Final Solution'. Plenty of them are on this board.

That is if they can drag themselves away from their keyboards with their baby fingers constantly hovering over the Z key.


Mike F

The word Anti-Semitism has its origins in Germany to describe the anti-Jewish prejudice by the non-Jewish population. The recent attempts to change the meaning to include hatred against all semitic peoples is the same type of evasive ploy Herman Goering tried during the Nuremberg Trials. IT DIDN'T WORK FOR HIM! IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE!

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Infinite, pehaps Britain did not want to recognise Israel simply for the fact it was a nation formed out of terrorism yes.

Ermm, no.

Britain did want to recognise Israel, but on the settlement laid out via the United Nations. The recognition of Israel still occured - even though we abstained from the vote.

Don't twist historical facts.

Originally posted by PGTWEED
The word Anti-Semitism has its origins in Germany to describe the anti-Jewish prejudice by the non-Jewish population. The recent attempts to change the meaning to include hatred against all semitic peoples is the same type of evasive ploy Herman Goering tried during the Nuremberg Trials. IT DIDN'T WORK FOR HIM! IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE!

You know the history of the word, and which groups the word is attributed, but do you honestly know the political and social economic conditions that led to Jews being persecuted in Germnay.

Do you actually know the history of Jews in Germany prior to the issuance of the Balfour Declaration and then the series of events that occured subsequently during the remainder of World War I, the Versaislles Treaty, the rampant inflation within the German State and the backing of different political factions like the Communists who tried to make inroads and consolidate power within a Germany reduced to near chaos and poverty induced famine?

Though nothing does or should be attempted to use the hollucust neither should the hollucust be used to ignore or coverup the historical events that factored into the Jews becoming one of the prime targets of the hollucust.

The Slavs by the way were targeted for extinction in twice the numbers.

What is particuarly dangerous in not actually knowing and supressing the real history of events that led to the Jews becoming a prime target of despotic agression and retribution is that it first promotes the false notion that this occured simply because they were Jewish. The reality is that is only part of the factor, the rest is what political causes and what actions the Jews in Germany took to further them, that were not in the German States best interest.

The myth of pretending that Jews were singled out simply for being Jewish opens the door to two very foolish things. The first is the false premise that as a result that Jews could never do anything politically to be singled out as a particular threat to a nation's stability and longevity and it is wrong to ever suggest they could be. That they be the only people on earth granted Carte Blanch to do what ever they want, with no one allowed to question or take exception. The second is of course the Jews themselves not recognizing how betraying the rest of the non-Jewish citizens of your country and your country itself could in fact make you very unpopular.

Read the real history of World War I, the short lived peace afterwards, and the political causes for social unrest inside of pre-World War II Germany objectively through objective and factual accounts and you will see how in fact the politics of German Jews suddenly changed from being very supportive and very entwined and respected in the German Government and society changed the moment that the Balfour Declaration came out and that the only way England could deliver Pallestine as a future home for Jews required that England be able to win the war. Then look at how the domestic politics within Germany changed and what part their politics played in bringing that about.

Nothing excuses the deplorable inhumanity of the Hollucust.

Nothing though justifies mass treason to your own nation and working against it for the benefit of not all of it's people but simply some of it's people bound by ethnicity and religion that isn't shared by all the nation's people.

What you will see if you look at it objectively is the Germans intially were far more tollerant of not only what was being done to erode the effectiveness of their sovierignty to their detriment, but that they weren't even attempting to punish those or limit those carrying it out when it had it's worst impact on the German State.

On the other hand we here in the United States moved rapidly to intern all Japanese citizens the moment Pearl Harbor occured. We didn't even take any chances.

The long and short of it is that the second the Balfour Declaration came out the Jews of Germany stopped fighting for and helping their own country of Germany and instead began fighting for and against their own country to see that Israel could be brought about.

The only thing that has erased that ugly stain on Jewish history is what transpired in the Hollucust that was in large part only made possible to carry out because of Jewish politics working at a cross purpose and detriment to the nation that they had not only adopted as home, but had in fact been treating them better than any other nation that had provided Jews in diaspora as home.

The people who fail to learn from history are those that fail to learn from it's lessons. It's been expedient further still for Jews to ignore the history of Jewish Politics in order to fully exploit the Hollucust for further political gain. The sad part is that the next country that a similiar Jewish political movement aimed at carrying out Israel's best interest that is deemed to be against the rest of the nation's interest that they reside in, they are likely going to end up in similiar politically hot water as resulted in Germany.

I don't care what nationality or religion you are. If you live in a nation you need to support what's best for all that nation, not another nation you are romantically or genetically or spiritually linked to above that one you live in.

People who have that kind of passion for another country or other philosophy should in fact just move to that country and support it as a productive citizen that doesn't feel tempted or the desire or need to work at a cross purpose against their fellow citizens and nation.

The hollocust should never be denied or condoned.

What else should never be denied or condoned is how Jewish Political Actions inside of Germany cost it victory in World War I, saddled it with a bankrupting treaty of peace, and then worked hard to introduce communism to the county all for the sake of helping the British obtain Palestine for a Jewish homeland and then trying to ensure a political system that would never hold them accountable for the betrayal.

I can't say I might not have been tempted to do the same if I were Jewish.

That though was as little consolidation to the Germans who suffered the manipulations as it was or is to the Palestinians who have lost their home in the process either.

Denying and manipulating the truth doesn't set a person or people free, it just condemns them to the prison of the thinking that leads ultimately to people being against them.

In the end if Jewish Politics being played out in scores of nations around the world because of the insistence of living in those nations while giving their main allegiance to Israel and their own cultural and religious heritage continually works to those nations detriment then I would say yes, it's safe to say people will become increasingly more and more anti-Israel and anti-Jewish.

It really isn't going to be their fault either. It's going to be the fault of the Jewish politics that aim at subverting their hosts nation's best interests.

That's what happened in World War I, and a terrible price was paid for it by the Jews in World War II.

You can try to fight that with a word with anti in front of it, obscuring history and denying it and trying desperately to intimidate people into believing there is something morally wrong in question the politics and behaviors of just one political, cultural and religious movement but the fact of the matter is that it won't win the day when the excreement hits the fan.

That's the real lesson of the hollucust on the rght answer is not, Jews should be allowed to always and forever do what they want with no questions asked or criticism given and neither should Israel.

That's an arrogant road to ruin and that's what the Hollucust really proves.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Only an ANTI-SEMITE would support Hitler's very outlandish lie that the Jews in Germany stabbed it in the back costing it victory in World War 1. It was Field Marshalls Von Hindenburg and Luddendorf that persuaded Kaiser Wilhelm to surrender to the Allies.

Originally posted by PGTWEED
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Only an ANTI-SEMITE would support Hitler's very outlandish lie that the Jews in Germany stabbed it in the back costing it victory in World War 1. It was Field Marshalls Von Hindenburg and Luddendorf that persuaded Kaiser Wilhelm to surrender to the Allies.

Actually what supports it are News Paper Archives account from 1914 on.

Have you read any many friend? Have you read any intelligence reports from the time? Congressional records from the time?

Or do you just pretend the post-war propoganda is the end all be all to the road to security in the future?

It really isn't and the fact of the matter is, it's that type of inabillity to search for some deeper knowledge and lessons that is just setting history up to repeat itself.

I think I outlined my position pretty well. If you tell your kids they have to look both ways before crossing the street does that make you anti-children. If one of your kids gets hit crossing the street and survives, but you see them darting across the street again and you tell them yet again look both ways...does that make you anti-Children?

Israel is going to end up loosing it's friends and jeapordizing it's blind followers again if you don't ever want to consider listening to the very real things that do lead to people not liking you.

But hey, I guess tossing out a blanket charge is a lot easier than reading, learning, questioning, soul searching and considering others in your endeavors.

Pretending history didn't happen the way it did doesn't keep history from repeating itself. Trying to bully people into pretending that the same things aren't happening really doesn't keep people from noticing. Continueing to do the same things just arrive at the same outcome, where sadly, yes, people will have no choice but their own security and prosperity to turn against it.

Of course who wants to be bothered with common sense when war, theft, and political blackmail is so much more profitable.

There is an old saying my friend about people who make their own bed.

They do end up having to lie in it, and lieing about how they made their bed still won't make it any more comfortable.

I truly feel sorry for the people who don't get this regardless of their heritage, ethnicity or religion.

We are all humans and until you see we really are subject to the same frailties and want to look at it as the rest of human kind shouldn't have a say then you are going to be using that word a lot, and a lot more often, and it's going to do you less and less good everytime you do.

To me Anti-Semite is just two little words people unprepared to take responsibility for their thinking and actions or discuss them love to bandy about in a fleeing attempt not to have too.

Dictatorships are about telling other people what to think and how to respond.

Politics is about discussing how people can get along and thrive.