What are the odds for life on a planet?

OK I am a believer in god and I love science so I was sitting around wandering if god is not the creator, what are the odds of everything being so perfect that a planet forms a sentient being..
I would guess it is a unfathomable, astronomical number..
Any of you care to chime in??

This is an argument from the position of ignorance.
In other words: "Wow, look at that. That is so amazing that there is NO WAY this is real if not for God."

Doesn't work because at the end of the day, we can observe ourselves but not God.
I don't know what the odds are, but it appears they were satisfied.

The chance of life just being created is crazy low. evolution doesn't even makes sence. Why would only some animals choose to evolve? Supposedly it started in the water. Why did some of the animals stay and some go.
Also, the perfectness of a needed climate to even support life is another huge problem. AND the needed oxygen and other airborne chemicles. Food source too.
I would say the odds are inprobable, but possible. Just not likely.

Animals don't choose to evolve any more than they choose to live.
It is called adaptation.

Evolution - A change in the allelle frequencies of a given population spanning the time of generations.

You see, what happens is upon birth mutations occur. Some of those mutations carry over to the next generation and so on and so on. Over time, the species as a whole changes.
This has been observed.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Animals don't choose to evolve any more than they choose to live.
It is called adaptation.

Evolution - A change in the allelle frequencies of a given population spanning the time of generations.

You see, what happens is upon birth mutations occur. Some of those mutations carry over to the next generation and so on and so on. Over time, the species as a whole changes.
This has been observed.

I don't even wanna get into this argument.

BUT

Where have we observed a new species come from an old one? mutant fruitflies? Finches with different size beaks? OMG here we go again.....

[edit on 15-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

Originally posted by AntiConspirator
Also, the perfectness of a needed climate to even support life is another huge problem. AND the needed oxygen and other airborne chemicles. Food source too.

Look around at the planet upon which you reside.

Extremophiles, Arctic and Antarctic climes, the ocean abyss.

Life persists in places you might never imagine.

I look up into the night sky and realize how vast infinity really is. The argument out of probability is the most convincing. Even if the odds are exponentially against it, this does not discount the possibility.

From the theological perspective, any God is not simply a God of Earth, rather, a God of the universe. Any limit to that God is a limit to the Universe. Neither has a limit, so, I put nothing outside of that divine will.

The question is: will we ever come into contact with an ET? If life exists in the universe beyond Earth, it is a matter of them finding us and overcoming the vast barriers of traveling across nearly endless space to reach us.

If our telescopes, tomorrow, found life around a far off star, we would never be able to meet them at our current level of technology. Similarly, with time acting the way it does, it is possible that civilizations of the universe could have come into being, lived, flourished, and died out before Earth was formed... and only now would we see that life forming with our current level of technology.

So, I think that there is a high probability that there is other life out there. However, we need to rely on them to find us.

I can say for a fact that there is life out there. The odds are 100/100. Now you just have to find the life out there. Good luck with your journey.

reply to post by AntiConspirator


You clearly have not even given Evolution a cursory glance, let alone attempted to understand it. I'll try and make it easy to understand.

Imagine a plant growing in a grassland. Over time, the climate changes and the grassland becomes dryer. The plant will continue to reproduce, yet conditions allowing it to survive become harsher.

Every time an organism reproduces, genetic mutation may occur randomly. If a certain offspring develops a mutation that allows it to retain more water than it's siblings, then it is going to find it easier to survive in the dryer climate.

As it finds living easier, it is also will find reproduction easier. Over a period of time, the new plant that can retain more water will be far more successful than it's contemporaries, leading it to thrive and the others to die out.


Arctic rabbits are another good example. Back in time, normal brown haired rabbits would have lived in the snow, but as they were visible, they were easy prey. Over time, some offspring would have developed a random mutation giving them white fur. These would have much increased chances of survival, thus would find it easier to reproduce than their brown furred friends.

Evolution isn't a matter of choice, but rather random genetic mutation that may incur an advantage in a given environment. It really isn't anything magical or mysterious and is easy as pie to understand if you actually make the effort to read about it.

[edit on 16/3/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
This is an argument from the position of ignorance.

UUUUMMM would that be me or you.
just cause I believe in god does not make me Ignorant..
I'm very open minded.

any way I dont think you were talking to me

Originally posted by jeffcoatsawakening

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
This is an argument from the position of ignorance.

UUUUMMM would that be me or you.
just cause I believe in god does not make me Ignorant..
I'm very open minded.

any way I dont think you were talking to me

The greatest scientists in the world have believed in God. Don't let them get to you. They'll insult you with your beliefs, they haven't "evolved" past this sort of thing yet.

I forgot all about this thread.

To the OP:
When I called it an argument from ignorance, I didn't mean you were ignorant.
Eh, it is also referred to as an argument from awe.

Nevermind.
And no, I won't get into the "mutant fruitfly" thing. In fact, the entire debate is pointless. Evolution is proven.

Ya they are extremes but they all have one BIG thing in common....OXYGEN!!

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
I forgot all about this thread.

To the OP:
When I called it an argument from ignorance, I didn't mean you were ignorant.
Eh, it is also referred to as an argument from awe.

Nevermind.
And no, I won't get into the "mutant fruitfly" thing. In fact, the entire debate is pointless. Evolution is proven.

Hello:

Evolution is a theory, and unproven! Check again, Theory! Peoples imaginations can be very convincing though. "Adaptation" is clearly seen in all life though. Humans all around the world are very different due to adaptation, and this is because of the different habitats that they have to adapt to. This can be easily seen when looking at extreme climates. Eskimoes are vastly different in comparison to Native African tribes in Zimbabwe; and different cultures or humans of different habitats can be viewed this way.

None-the-less, we are humans, and not like other animals and/or life on this planet. A carrot is vastly different from a grape. Grass isn't the seed of evolution to a tree! So, unless you are comparing all things on a "God particle" level, then there is no way we evolved from amobeas.

As was argued already in this thread, was the topic of hares and/or rabbits, and their change in fur colour for the use of camoflauge from predators. This can be shown easily as well. But, to say that all life evolved from amobeas is pushing it; and for other theorists to say the earth and all life therof was the result of merely a big bang is shear ignorance. If the big bang occurred, it was the result of a superior being who caused it; and that being is usually entitled "God" or "Creator" or gods and/or godesses who go by many different titles.

It's not hard to look around you and see the existence of a "God". The concept of a God not existing is merely ignorant, childish, and dumb. But, leave it to this race of homosapiens to be dumb enough to think that one up.

It only goes to show that much human reason is a mad logic, craziness, and shear delusion. Just because socities choose to believe certain "theories", it doesn't make them "right theories." One discourse is another's course! It just happens to be that theories give humans something to believe in so that they don't become disoriented and start banging their heads on rocks and walls.

What if God talks to you? "If" God attempts to and/or makes physical, spiritual, or mental contact with human beings, or any one human being, the majority of people aren't willing to accept it anyways. Then the poor bastard(s) who establish contact are called crazy, or labelled with some stupid damned mental disorder, and go into a hysterical state. Who is to blame them when they try to tell about God, and nobody wants to listen?

Damn fools people can be!

Anyways, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that other life exists in this vast universe (or the cosmos). It may not be in the shape, form, or made up of the same particles as we see here on earth, but I do believe other life forms are out there. I also believe that other forms of life exist on this earth, but they are not in the same physical form as we can perceive. These beings, or other life forms, are intangible to a high degree. Even if you seen or heard them, they may not have a taste to their bodies, a smell or odour, or a physical body that we can touch. I know that I have had experiences that defy all laws and logic that humans have made up.

Just so we have one thing clear, I don't blame any one person for being the way that they are. In a big way I look at people in two categories. It is me, and it is them! Many people I believe have it right by saying this, "We are ONE!" When I say ONE, I mean One Body seperated by space, One Mind seperated by individual thoughts, and One Spirit seperated by unique imprints called souls. We are all mirror images of each other brothers and sisters, and we are all an image of our creator.

Peace!

onehappyangel:

Sorry, I didn't quite read all of your post.

Just wanted to say that, yes, evolution is proven. The mechanism causing which is the theory.

Evolution is a fact. A fact is something that is repeatedly observed. Even predicted to be observed.
What is up for question, if there is anything, is the specific CAUSE for the change.
Maybe "God did it." I don't know, but it happens.

Peace.

PS - It is funny though, and something you may consider, is that just as you said the specific mechanism that causes the mutations is the unknown.
Is this the hand of god?

Yes, species change. You admitted as much yourself. And I already promised that I wouldn't go into specific examples, as this is proven stuff.

Just something to consider.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

I think what you are looking for possibly is the Drake equation.
Very interesting and may satisfy some of the more skeptical peeps' curiosity.
www.answers.com...

As for the answer...well, will we go extinct because of stupidity
or will we evolve past wars and other forms of "entertainment"?
What are the odds of us not going extinct?
Thats the answer you should concern yourself with.
Go to bottom of page to calculate probable planets with life:
www.activemind.com...
Hint: about 1000 (currently)

We are either a statistical anomaly or just plain lucky.
Take your pick! My personal opinion?
We better take care of and appreciate the home we have now!
Planets are not very hospitable, generally. Thanks for the posts!

[edit on 27-3-2009 by dodadoom]

N = R* × fp × ne × fl × fi × fc × L

N = The number of communicative civilizations

R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars

fp = The fraction of those stars with planets

ne = The number of "Earths" per planetary system

fl = The fraction of those planets where life develops

fi = The fraction life sites where intelligence develops

fc = The fraction of planets where technology develops

L = The "Lifetime" of communicating civilizations

----------------
This is the Drake Equation for finding "intelligent" life, outside of our planet.

Pulled from Space.com - Drake Equation

I'm sure you can make the equation slightly smaller, just to find any life.

-- End ---
O-315

reply to post by dodadoom


Good stuff.
And something for people to consider is that there are about 100 BILLION Galaxies in the known universe.
1,000 communicating civilizations in this Galaxy.
100 Billion galaxies in the known universe...

WOW, that is 100 TRILLION communicating civilizations in the universe at this instant...
So, that is a bunch.

Going into a completely different branch of the equation altogether, I would ask, what are the implications of QM on the equation in terms of "how many have the ability to travel HERE?"

THIS MY FRIENDS, is the answer to EVERYTHING we question.

PS - I chose not to answer that because I realized this thread was folly in the first place. I was hoping it would turn into an argument. And it didn't.



[edit on 27-3-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

And all of that doesn't consider the very real possiblity, through QM, that there are multiple dimensions in reality...

11 dimensions?

I'll let you calculate that one. (anyone that really wants to consider the question)

(16 digits)

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Thanks Jay!
IF there are other "intelligent beings" out there and IF they
have the capability to travel here, then they are probably doing
exactly what others have said. They are watching us closely
with our "nuke-lar wessles"!


note "W" and Star Trek 4 reference

YA, the dimensional thingy! Thats where it starts to get real freaky!
I thought your avatar was cool btw.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by dodadoom]