Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate

Originally posted by son of PC
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Can't help but feel that chemtrails are somehow related to the use of DU weapons. (polymers are used to bring particles to ground) The ultra fine particles have traveled worldwide since the two gulf wars. One small particle in the lungs can kill with time.

If there is another major conflict, say with Iran, you can bet your bottom dollar that DU weapons will be used. After the mess ends we will be looking at chemtrails till the day we die.


Imagine a weapon, like DU, so deadly, that it basically poisons the entire planet. In an effort to deflect attention, I feel the govt. has let experts "leak" and sell the population that chemtrails are for weather modification.

How can a government get support for repeated conflicts, if the general population were to realize the cost healthwise, that they will eventually have to pay.

Yes,I dont know what DU is,but I say Mycoplasma again..An carrier for virus, just like an lorry, just load up the mergendiZe....
Myco is an virus without cellwalls, so it don't show up on normal bloodtests, unless you, let us say hook it up with pneumonia, then you get what I had 3 years ago: Mycoplasma Pneumonia, and that is an reconized desease (as in the doctors may talk about it),but acording to ATS members it is just a load of crap..
Check up on the golf war syndrome/illness. Tell those guys they were NEVER exposed to what they say they were ...

Mycoplasma is an man made (Oops new laws, synthitec) desease carrier.
Aids/hiv (first test runs was in USA ordered by H.Kissinger), ebola (handy for africa and stuff) so there are alot of areas of use to this chemical weapon system. Like ruining crops (haven't read any of that yet), but basicly, I think they use it to make healthy people sick , and sick people sicker. Senior citizens are most likely to die of heart failiures and cancer, younger people end up with leukemia and those sorts of deseases.

like vaccines, muhahaha, how come doctors working with vaccines half there lifes regret giving it to theyr children? why is that ? I can only wonder.... Pull down the shaders boys ! ! ! All the way down so you dont have to look at it ! ! !

reply to post by ChemBreather


Well I don't know about other ATS'ers saying that Mycoplasma Pneumonia was a load of crap but this is what I found about it so far.

Symptoms

Disease from mycoplasma is usually mild to moderate in severity. The symptoms are usually mild enough that the patient may remain ambulatory throughout the illness. [1]
[edit]Pathophysiology

Mycoplasma pneumoniae is spread through respiratory droplet transmission. Once attached to the mucosa of a host organism, M. pneumonia extracts nutrients, grows and reproduces by binary fission. Attachment sites include the upper and lower respiratory tract, causing pharyngitis, bronchitis and pneumonia. The infection caused by this bacterium is called atypical pneumonia because of its protracted course and lack of sputum production and wealth of extra-pulmonary symptoms. Chronic mycoplasma infections have been implicated in the pathogenesis of rheumatoid arthritis and other rheumatological diseases.
Mycoplasma atypical pneumonia can be complicated by Stevens-Johnson syndrome, hemolytic anemia, encephalitis or Guillain-Barré syndrome.
[edit]Diagnosis

M. pneumoniae infections can be differentiated from other types of pneumonia by the relatively slow progression of symptoms, a positive blood test for cold-hemagglutinins in 50-70% of patients after 10 days of infection (cold-hemagglutinin-test should be used with caution or not at all since 50% of the tests are false-positive), lack of bacteria in a gram-stained sputum sample, and a lack of growth on blood agar.
PCR has also been used.[2]
[edit]

And this is the transmission methods copied from the CDC

Transmission Person-to-person transmission by contact with respiratory secretions. Incubation period is 1 to 4 weeks.

Source from CDC


so not necessary for it to be sprayed into the atmosphere by secret government planes with a mandate to make people sick.

Originally posted by QBSneak000
reply to post by ChemBreather

 

Well I don't know about other ATS'ers saying that Mycoplasma Pneumonia was a load of crap but this is what I found about it so far.

Symptoms

Disease from mycoplasma is usually mild to moderate in severity. The symptoms are usually mild enough that the patient may remain ambulatory throughout the illness. [1]
[edit]Pathophysiology

Mycoplasma pneumoniae is spread through respiratory droplet transmission. Once attached to the mucosa of a host organism, M. pneumonia extracts nutrients, grows and reproduces by binary fission. Attachment sites include the upper and lower respiratory tract, causing pharyngitis, bronchitis and pneumonia. The infection caused by this bacterium is called atypical pneumonia because of its protracted course and lack of sputum production and wealth of extra-pulmonary symptoms. Chronic mycoplasma infections have been implicated in the pathogenesis of rheumatoid arthritis and other rheumatological diseases.
Mycoplasma atypical pneumonia can be complicated by Stevens-Johnson syndrome, hemolytic anemia, encephalitis or Guillain-Barré syndrome.
[edit]Diagnosis

M. pneumoniae infections can be differentiated from other types of pneumonia by the relatively slow progression of symptoms, a positive blood test for cold-hemagglutinins in 50-70% of patients after 10 days of infection (cold-hemagglutinin-test should be used with caution or not at all since 50% of the tests are false-positive), lack of bacteria in a gram-stained sputum sample, and a lack of growth on blood agar.
PCR has also been used.[2]
[edit]

And this is the transmission methods copied from the CDC

Transmission Person-to-person transmission by contact with respiratory secretions. Incubation period is 1 to 4 weeks.

Source from CDC


so not necessary for it to be sprayed into the atmosphere by secret government planes with a mandate to make people sick.

I know, it spreads like wildfire, five of us six in the household had it on both lungs... Hard to breath...

But again, it could have come a hospital or some other place. What I am trying to say is that I seriously doubt it was caused by any form of "chemtrailing" as you would have others believe.


EDIT*spelling


[edit on 17-3-2009 by QBSneak000]

Originally posted by QBSneak000
But again, it could have come a hospital or some other place. What I am trying to say is that I seriously doubt it was caused by any form of "chemtrailing" as you would have others believe.

EDIT*spelling
( so it happens to you too

)

[edit on 17-3-2009 by QBSneak000]

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to answere you. Yes I could have gotten it from alot of places , ofcourse. I cant prove we got sick just because there are an chemtrail conspiracy..

Well, look here, giving a link is as I said befor is pointless, you will only trust info from the people that cant be expected to give the truth.

I'm posting here, this is from 2003.The picture link is down.

Satellite picture taken during Gulf War shows major aerial spraying of the battlefield. Image is posted at Debra Mohon's Reality Check site available by clicking on the adjacent radar logo. It shows the first, real life, grand-scale on field inoculation or contamination spraying test. The selection of the experiment settings was outstanding, because the chosen location was far-away from any area in which the majority of western citizens have regular interest in, there was absence of the significant civilian habitation areas and, if present, civilians were accountable locals, being Summer dry air conditions were guaranteed, and in the war zone any occurring fallout or strange visual effects noted by outsiders could be easily technically explained, in the forceful way if necessary and most important of all, the objects of the test could be, not locals from another country but, persons with available detailed health history, easily controllable and approachable during and long time after the war.

It is to be expected that agent used is of the same nature as the one used world-wide today.

Candace Brown in her article on 07-28-2000 at disc.server.com... states that mycoplasmas are bacteria which lack a cell-wall and that Dr. Garth Nicolson, at the time a cancer researcher at MD Anderson Cancer Centre, had found a mycoplasma was involved in the Gulf War Illness. He believes that he had his computer tampered with, his mail and anything that was connected to his research concerning mycoplasmas. Mrs. Brown says she found two documents which state DNA viruses (parvovirus B19 is a DNA virus) infect mycoplasma. She also notes that the mycoplasma was aerosolised for the experiments in a Texas prison and that, according to research, 90% of the world population can test positive for human parvovirus.

Extensive article by Anita Sands describing mycoplasma origin, symptoms of the illness and related cures is now available in DISEASE section of this site.

And here some off-topic info (sorry OP). but it contains info about the mycoplasma as I made claims for earlier.

More of the history of the secret virus program can be found in the archives of Dr. John B. Moloney. A review of the files under Dr. Moloney’s name would further pinpoint additional dates and records consistent with one of the greatest hunts, capture and proliferation of disease in the history of the human race. We have found the missing link. It is the guts of the research logic of a federal program that seeks to kill. We have found a curtain of AIDS. We can identify some of the people who work in the shadows of the curtain. Dr. Robert Gallo and Dr. Garth Nicolson must lead us in review. In light of the attack mechanisms available in which to inhibit AIDS, it is time that not another person be stricken with this relic, synthetic mycoplasma chimera.

Help those of us who are still here to realize full and contributory lives. We are all one people.

On September 28, 1998 I filed suit against the United States for the “creation”, “production” and “proliferation” of AIDS. On November 7, 2000, the appeals court agreed with the lower court and held AIDS bioengineering as “frivolous.” The world continues to wait for the court to rule on the resubmitted issues. The court can not continue to simply brush aside our experts and the government’s flowchart.

I have been asked to give my perspective with regard to the federal program MK-NAOMI . MK-NAOMI is the code for the development of AIDS. The “MK” portion stands for the two co-authors of the AIDS virus, Robert Manaker and Paul Kotin. The “NAOMI” portion stands for “Negroes are Only Momentary Individuals.” The U.S. government continues to orchestrate silence from the very top echelons of the Congress and military. At present there is no accountability. The good people will ultimately create a tsunami of public outrage. We can not allow the state an autocratic right to govern outside of the Constitution. Our society is structured to hide crimes committed by the state, while punishing citizens for minor indiscretions. Their strategy focuses on the general confusion they can create via manipulation of the media. They are very good at what they do. We must become more focused in our continued presentation of the flowchart. The flowchart is the absolute missing link in proving the existence of a coordinated research program to develop a cancer virus that depletes the immune system. New diseases do not create old illnesses.

As you can read here, it was taken to court with Goverment Documents.
I dont know how it turned out, Im still reading !!! Juicy stuff..
Keep pulling down the shaders, it gets nastier !! Dont look NOW !!

[edit on 17-3-2009 by ChemBreather]

reply to post by ChemBreather


All races White Black
Year Both sexes Male Female Both sexes Male Female Both sexes Male Female
2005 77.8 75.2 80.4 78.3 75.7 80.8 73.2 69.5 76.5
20041 77.8 75.2 80.4 78.3 75.7 80.8 73.1 69.8 76.3
2003 77.5 74.8 80.1 78.0 75.3 80.5 72.7 69.0 76.1
2002 77.3 74.5 79.9 77.7 75.1 80.3 72.3 68.8 75.6
2001 77.2 74.4 79.8 77.7 75.0 80.2 72.2 68.6 75.5
2000 77.0 74.3 79.7 77.6 74.9 80.1 71.9 68.3 75.2
1999 76.7 73.9 79.4 77.3 74.6 79.9 71.4 67.8 74.7
1998 76.7 73.8 79.5 77.3 74.5 80.0 71.3 67.6 74.8
1997 76.5 73.6 79.4 77.2 74.3 79.9 71.1 67.2 74.7
1996 76.1 73.1 79.1 76.8 73.9 79.7 70.2 66.1 74.2
1995 75.8 72.5 78.9 76.5 73.4 79.6 69.6 65.2 73.9
1994 75.7 72.4 79.0 76.5 73.3 79.6 69.5 64.9 73.9
1993 75.5 72.2 78.8 76.3 73.1 79.5 69.2 64.6 73.7
1992 75.8 72.3 79.1 76.5 73.2 79.8 69.6 65.0 73.9
1991 75.5 72.0 78.9 76.3 72.9 79.6 69.3 64.6 73.8
1990 75.4 71.8 78.8 76.1 72.7 79.4 69.1 64.5 73.6
1989 75.1 71.7 78.5 75.9 72.5 79.2 68.8 64.3 73.3
1988 74.9 71.4 78.3 75.6 72.2 78.9 68.9 64.4 73.2
1987 74.9 71.4 78.3 75.6 72.1 78.9 69.1 64.7 73.4
1986 74.7 71.2 78.2 75.4 71.9 78.8 69.1 64.8 73.4
1985 74.7 71.1 78.2 75.3 71.8 78.7 69.3 65.0 73.4
1984 74.7 71.1 78.2 75.3 71.8 78.7 69.5 65.3 73.6
1983 74.6 71.0 78.1 75.2 71.6 78.7 69.4 65.2 73.5
1982 74.5 70.8 78.1 75.1 71.5 78.7 69.4 65.1 73.6
1981 74.1 70.4 77.8 74.8 71.1 78.4 68.9 64.5 73.2
1980 73.7 70.0 77.4 74.4 70.7 78.1 68.1 63.8 72.5
1979 73.9 70.0 77.8 74.6 70.8 78.4 68.5 64.0 72.9
1978 73.5 69.6 77.3 74.1 70.4 78.0 68.1 63.7 72.4
1977 73.3 69.5 77.2 74.0 70.2 77.9 67.7 63.4 72.0
1976 72.9 69.1 76.8 73.6 69.9 77.5 67.2 62.9 71.6
1975 72.6 68.8 76.6 73.4 69.5 77.3 66.8 62.4 71.3
1974 72.0 68.2 75.9 72.8 69.0 76.7 66.0 61.7 70.3
1973 71.4 67.6 75.3 72.2 68.5 76.1 65.0 60.9 69.3
19722 71.2 67.4 75.1 72.0 68.3 75.9 64.7 60.4 69.1
1971 71.1 67.4 75.0 72.0 68.3 75.8 64.6 60.5 68.9
1970 70.8 67.1 74.7 71.7 68.0 75.6 64.1 60.0 68.3
1960 69.7 66.6 73.1 70.6 67.4 74.1 — — —
1950 68.2 65.6 71.1 69.1 66.5 72.2 — — —
1940 62.9 60.8 65.2 64.2 62.1 66.6 — — —
1935 61.7 59.9 63.9 62.9 61.0 65.0 53.1 51.1 55.2
1930 59.7 58.1 61.6 61.4 59.7 63.5 48.1 47.3 49.2


Notice how in this chart it seems like people are living longer. Why you could even predict how long the average life span might be in 10 years. (that is providing we don't get hit by niburu) So if we are living longer, what is it that they are spraying on you again? And why are they doing it? These are the kinds of things people look at if they aren't already gung ho on a wacky belief that the bad man is out to get them. I am starting to buy into the chem sprayer theory. It is in fact fairy dust.

Hey, looks like there is a subject we can both agree upon

The Gulf War Syndrome.

I have a few friends in the US military that suffer from this but they insist they got it from a vaccine/booster shot that they all were forced to take. They didn't mention anything about the spraying of the battlefields.

Well, look here, giving a link is as I said befor is pointless, you will only trust info from the people that cant be expected to give the truth.

edit*addition: there were many links to Mycoplasm Pneumonia, seeing they are all pretty much the same I just posted the first two I read. Wouldn't you also fall under your own description in the above quote? How do you know for sure that your own sources are trustworthy?


[edit on 17-3-2009 by QBSneak000]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by QBSneak000]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by QBSneak000]

reply to post by C0bzz


Oh dear , another desperate attempt to save face from some low level cover up artist .

fact is you are masquerading as ADF personel to blow yet more smoke on the debate . you are comparing apples and pears . The true nature and dispostion of australias defence force is far greater than anything 'on the books' . dont insult our intelligence with your Janes book of 'state of the art'. Your churning out meaningless and bogus statistics is laughable.

State of the art in defence tech and numbers on strength is always kept hush hush for obvious reasons.

So name drop all you want. The fact of the matter is that everyone around here knows that what is shown to the public is only a fraction of what is on strength.

The sr71 blackbird only became public knowledge when it was obsolete .
So lets get real here and ask ourselves what is possible with an old air frame when it has anti grav ,full cloaking , dynamic shield generation for improved hypersonic performance and superior passive radar to the tired old overpriced raptor . The anti grav alone gives dramatically extended range and endurance , a week plus in the air !!!!!! with all that extra power to drive cloaking ,shielding and countermeasures .

yeah baby ,you bet your ass we we have the technology . More than you can possibly imagine.

And thats why blowing smoke and chem is often the only way to (hopefully) detect these warbirds . Good luck with that .

We seem to have gone rather off topic here? Few of the recent posts have anything whatsoever to do with the phenomena some claim to be chemtrails.

Maybe this is acceptance that what you see are what those who have studied them for decades are just what they say they are: normal contrails?

reply to post by network dude


I really hate to say this, but ... your charts are pretty much meaningless. The reason lifespan keeps going up is because of reductions in infant mortality, elimination of childhood diseases that used to kill people young, and medical advances which keep people alive after they've had heart attacks, strokes, and accidents.

We are most definitely NOT healthier now, not by any stretch.

Not that I really think our decreasing health has anything to do with "chemtrails," but still ...

I'm sorry, those longevity charts just really don't mean squat in terms of how HEALTHY people are.

reply to post by Heike


Discounting the effects of reduced child mortality and childbirth fatalities it becomes apparent that lifespan past childhood has actually gone down pretty substancially, although the average hides this.

In a few more years, if current trends continue, it will be undeniable that something is very wrong with our modern society. Chemtrails having or not influence in this is a matter for debate, I don't claim to know exactly the scope of their operations. I would guess at least some of them, per past government intervention trends, have a negative effect on public health.

So yeah, the chart means less than the poster wants to make seem.

I believe I first heard of “Chemtrails” around 2002 or 2003. Living in a relatively small city, less then 40K people. I had never seen these types of chemtrails, however, growing up in LA I saw contrails all the time. From the ground looking up, it appeared these contrails traveled behind those planes, maybe two or three plane lengths behind those planes. Two years ago, during the first part of Spring, and for the first time ever, there was a day when we had air traffic all over my little city, and these planes had chemtrails emitting from behind those planes that stretched from horizon to horizon. The effects of those chemtrails lasted for two days. And then there was nothing for several months, until late in the Summer… Then it seemed as if every third day these planes with chemtrails were all over the sky. And then one day it just stopped. We didn’t see any for almost a full year and then it started up again, lasted for about a month and then stopped. Since this last summer I haven’t seen any chemtrails over my city.
Last year and about 100 miles west of Phoenix Arizona, while driving on I-10, I would guess it was around 7am in the morning. I spotted the first chemtrail, within an hour there were about a hundred going in every which way across the sky, within two hours the entire sky turned cloudy and was filled with whatever was coming off these planes. I even took pictures of these chemtrails. I will look for them, because I also saw something in the sky, a silver disk looking object that was way up there… but that is another subject for another day. Since that time, I have seen chemtrails in about 5 states, near large cities, and even right smack in the middle of nowhere.

That is the truth of my experiences.

Now, even though I have seen these chemtrails over my town/county I still have a hard time believing there is some secret diabolical project hell bent on killing 9/10ths of humanity. If they are doing it for that reason, and that’s a BIG freaken IF, they’re freaken idiots. Because, if we are breathing these poisons, then they are breathing these poisons. Their families, friends, you name it, its all over their lungs, water, food, birdbaths, houses, cars, favorite watering holes… etc etc… For the love god, there is only one planet we all co-exist upon. Are these Pinky the Brains’ living underground?
Can there be a sinister plot to kill most of humanity? I suppose, do I believe it… Nah! Can there be a secret government project using planes to do something we have zero idea why? Yeah, hell I would even allow myself to ponder that, except… There aint a single thing in Josephine County Oregon that would require the military to seed, dispense poison, or otherwise try and hide something by creating artificial clouds, even though I have heard rumors that Josephine County is supposed to have minute man missiles somewhere out in the mountains. I strongly doubt that is true, however there are these rumors…

In summery, if forced to answer where I stand on this issue, I guess I am leaning towards there is a logical, non-diabolical, reason for these chemtrails to exist. Did the mixture for jet fuel change twenty years ago? Has the temperature output of plane exhaust increased over the years? Is there a secret project to create a 3D grid over the US and NATO countries for our missile defense systems using these chemtrails, or to see how NBC's would travel if there was a war? I would answer I don’t know… but I think neither would be considered diabolical. If they are poisoning us, then they are poisoning themselves. So that just don’t add up! If they started almost twenty years ago then their children could be having babies of their own now, ie. grandchildren, whose partner/parent most assuredly is infected with that poison. SO…these people have most definitely poisoned their own family! Well, autism is on the rise…. Still, It just don’t add up!

That's Me two cents!

--Charles Marcello

Originally posted by littlebunny
Did the mixture for jet fuel change twenty years ago?

It’s been the same since at least the 1980’s, when I first began working on aircraft, in the past though there were other mixtures/fuels including Avgas. Now its pretty much all JP4 or JP8. Your JP’s are nothing more then Diesel gas with some additional additives that apply to aviation conditions such as anti-static, anti-icing, etc. We used to run our ramp equipment on the same gas that the planes used, and we would fuel them right off the ground hydrant pit at an unused gate. Its nothing in the gas, or you would see similar trails coming from the backs of the ramp equipment that you see driving around an airport.

Originally posted by littlebunny
Has the temperature output of plane exhaust increased over the years?

Astute perception…
The temperatures of engines has changed, and I have brought up this issue in other threads in the past. The old aircraft were mainly of the 727, 737-100/200, and DC-9/MD-80 variety, which all had similar engine types. Today, the airlines require aircraft with higher fuel efficiency, and the older airframes were wearing out, so they have gone to the 737-300/800, Airbus, and 757 variety aircraft. These aircraft, besides having a much larger fan section which exposes more air to the engine core, also operate at a colder temperature for efficiency. I don’t understand the reasoning for this, but for some reason colder running apparently makes them more prone to form contrails then hotter running:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0bf065d2bfeb.jpg[/atsimg]
Here you can see a new A340 flying side-by-side with an old B707, the 707 had similar engines to the 727, 737-1&200. Notice that at the same altitude the new engines are spewing contrails while the old 707 is not. Maybe Oz or Essan can explain why that is, because it honestly seems backwards to me, but then that is why I am not a meteorologist.

Either way though, very good catch on your part.

LMAO you used old WW2 Bombers again to demonstrate heavy contrail formation which is ludricous... Those older engines emmit much more particles then you'r modern day jet.. Its like comparing a modern day ford mustang to an old model T lol nice work oz

reply to post by defcon5


This is true because the emissions can more easily ice up pretty quick if its contrail is originally cooler... obviously if its warmer it will be more difficult for particles to ice up at lower altitudes... so yes it is possible that more modern aircrafts are showing more contrails at lower altitudes...

[edit on 17-3-2009 by thefreepatriot]

you forget the U.S has had the ability to calculate exactly where Nuclear fallout will head too after an attack... plug in all the variables and they know with 99% certaintly where any fallout will eventually fall........ You don't think they could apply this to Chemtrail formation?? to say the U.S does not have this ability would be seriously underestimating its abilities as a Nuclear Power............

fas.org...


Nifty little java based caluclator by the Federation of American Scientists.. plug in wind speed\direction and you know exactly where fallout will occur..... This can EASILY be adopted for any "chem spraying" .... So its not "impossible" to hit a target area not if you have descent winds and have all the wind variables.. obviously the java applet is very simple... But Just imagine what the U.S goverment has...

[edit on 17-3-2009 by thefreepatriot]

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
LMAO you used old WW2 Bombers again to demonstrate heavy contrail formation which is ludricous... Those older engines emmit much more particles then you'r modern day jet.. Its like comparing a modern day ford mustang to an old model T lol nice work oz

What post, and who were you referring to about the bombers?
Also the exhaust from the old radial piston engine aircraft would be more akin to the gray/black smoke seen in the B-52 footage above. However, Piston engines can make contrails the same as jets can, same as your car or your breath does on a cold morning.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
This is true because the emissions can more easily ice up pretty quick if its contrail is originally cooler... obviously if its warmer it will be more difficult for particles to ice up at lower altitudes... so yes it is possible that more modern aircrafts are showing more contrails at lower altitudes...

Makes sense.
Thanks…

WW2 planes emmit much more particulate matter then modern day jets... which equal= more ice formation and = heavy contrails especially with when the propellers are spreading out the particles much more then a jet would in a much tighter area... Again too compare an old WW2 bomber to modern day jets in contrail formation is the most ludicrous and one of the funniest things I have every heard... I guess that's why you'r a "weatherman" keep to what you know ..the weather and aviation are two diff fields.....

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
LMAO you used old WW2 Bombers again to demonstrate heavy contrail formation which is ludricous... Those older engines emmit much more particles then you'r modern day jet.. Its like comparing a modern day ford mustang to an old model T lol nice work oz

Jokes on you

Why dont you do search for clouds on wiki or google. You will probably be surprised to find that particulates in the atmosphere actually stimulate the growth of ice crystals, as they provide a nucleus for the water vapour to attach to. This is another reason why the contrails only consist of exhaust material and water vapour

If you cant be bothered checking, then go back a few pages where I explained this process