TALMUD what a lovely book!

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
By nature, most people are greed driven, self-centered and ill mannered.

I beg to differ. By nature most people are kind, loving, caring and giving individuals. HOWEVER...

Because we are caught in a money economy, we are driven quite often to desperation, resulting in poor choices made. And then They tell us we have bad nature. People like you repeat it. And so we lower our expectations of others.

If we had no need of money (a resource economy as opposed to a money economy) and could do what we love to do, we would spend our time with those we like, rarely or never encountering those we don't like.

Love would flourish amongst Humans.

Now if you read The Terra Papers, you can understand that on top of desperation (whether it is for money, advancement of status, or a fear that one might not get "what's coming to me"), we have those amongst us who are "Lizard Hearted." These Lizard Hearted choose poor behavior, but for different reasons. But the poor behavior is chalked up to "human nature." Reinforcing the idea that there is something wrong with this glorious race of loving co-creators, these Humans that we are.

So...

As I said. I disagree and would stand proud in defence of my race.

First, most of these are taken from esoteric mystical tracts from the freaking middle ages.
2. Of course some Jews are racist idiots, Jews are humans.
3. The Talmud is a book with a variety of opinions, that's the whole point of the book. It's a discussion. There are points and counterpoints, that's what makes up the bulk of the material.

And the Talmud says
Talmud Chullin 94a

As Shmuel said: It is forbidden to deceive anyone, even an idolatrous gentile.

So, yes, there's nasty # in there, but there is also stuff that contradicts the said nasty material. Anyways, the talmud is as big as a small library - and the writing in each page is tiny. The fact is that the author of this post found a link with the 10 nastiest parts of an ancient book of religious law.

Jeez. Enough of the anti-semitism. And my father served in the military. He's a Jew. So F U.

And as we Jews say: Man plans, God Laughs. No man has the power, intelligence or ability to make a plan as complex as the ones stated in many of these conspiracy theories. The world is full of chaos. Lots and lots of it. The mighty rise, the mighty fall. This is life. There are no groups of people who somehow escape the realities of life.

reply to post by JustAnotherDude


I agree with almost all of your post, but when the mighty rise they sometimes conspire, in group, to do so. I have become aware that there is indeed a higher level of coordination in elitist circles than most people give them credit for.

So that little bit where you say it isn't so, I suggest you keep reading and watching till you realise there is indeed many common threads in society that lead up to the usual suspects.

One thing I hate about threads like these (regardless of which Religion's book it posts quotes from) is that people who post these quotes always find them from a website that is there to advocate hate. The quotes are always out of context, and not in their full form, and there are so many quotes posted that any person trying to refute them has to go through the faith's book to show them that the verse is misquoted in a matter of days or weeks.

I'm not Jewish, but even I can see how those verses have been taken out of context.

Christians proselytize to gather new members. Christians believe that non-Christians are missing out, and the Christians want them to change their ways and join up.

Muslims proselytize to gather new members. Muslims believe that non-Muslims are missing out, and the Muslims want them to change their ways and join up.

Jews do no proselytize. Jews are certain that non-Jews are missing out, and the Jews want to keep it that way.

Whether Jesus was a Jew or not is not important. What is important is the fact that Jesus was telling the public masses something that the Jews did not want made public. This is what prompted the Jews to have the Roman soldiers arrest Jesus. Then the Jews tried to use their political power to influence the sentencing of Jesus. Ultimately, the death sentence resulted. This is why Christians tell their version of the story and attach it to the Jewish version of the story. Jews don't read the New Testament. To them it is garbage. Christians read both the New Testament and the Old Testament in order to gain an historical perspective on the global machinations of the bloodline questing for Earthly Jewish supremacy.

The real secrets are about making money and thus having the freedom to exercise certain powers that are unavailable to the common and poor laborer who is 'occupied' and can not break free from his master's control.

None of this is about feeling good or feeling positive or being hopeful or faithful. It is all about a very real battle in the physical realm. That battle is fought by all teams using similar weapons and techniques. The Cold War continues.

I believe the Jews are concerned with bloodlines and that is how they keep their secrets.

I believe all non-Jews are concerned with intelligence and that is how they keep their secrets.

I do not believe the Jews are chosen by their God to rule over the Earth. In fact, I believe the opposite. I believe the Jews are self-chosen based upon bloodline, thus failing to appreciate the inherent intelligence of all humans, and actually condemning themselves as 'chosen' to demonstrate the inferior mechanism.

Intelligence, as demonstrated by many different types of people, is destined to win this battle for governance of the planet. This is what I find attractive about the occult wisdom. It does not discriminate.

However, do not underestimate the Jews. They are worthy adversaries and all non-Jews should remain vigilantly on guard.

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by scordar
If you want to understand why Hitler, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Martin Luther and many, many others wanted to hunt down the Jews, you have to know what follow here, because it was the cause of their actions. So please don’t get angry with me for presenting this stuff.

Ohhhh! So THAT'S why the Jews should be persecuted and destroyed! Because one of their ancient texts contains some pretty "ancient" attitudes!

Thanks for clearing that up, dude. They clearly deserved everything they got then, eh. Case closed.

How do i have a feeling i have seen this kind of reply before?! I personally have nothing against the jews. I just brought up something that is not a secret is it? why do you think that modern day jews should use WW2 holocaust as an excuse for they actions? are they trying to gather some symphaty because if that is the case, i seriously think it's not working.

Originally posted by THX-1138
However, do not underestimate the Jews. They are worthy adversaries and all non-Jews should remain vigilantly on guard.

So, the Jews are adversaries/enemies/opponents?

Interesting position, dude.

Originally posted by scordar
why do you think that modern day jews should use WW2 holocaust as an excuse for they actions?

I don't think that at all. I didn't say it, either.

I merely commented (sarcastically) on the fact that you dredged up an ancient manuscript and presented it as the justification for why the Jews have been persecuted, exiled, and slaughtered in their millions, as though by reading this text, we should all suddenly understand why these atrocities were perpetrated against them.

Most people of Jewish heritage don't even subscribe to the Talmud.

In other religions, anyone can become a part of it. If you want to convert to Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, ect. you can do it, no restrictions and you are fully accepted. In Judaism, Jews (depending on the group) tie a genetic lineage into salvation. Not everyone can become a Jew. Isn't that nice that they view themselves as being so superior yet won't allow others into their club? lol. [edit on 15-3-2009 by ghaleon12]

I think Maddonna would disagree. Anyone can convert to Judaism. Once converted you are as Jewish as Moses' great grandson to the tenth power. Ridiculous.

I put way too much time in this than is even deserved, but this is what I found:
4.“Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals.” (Kethuboth 3b)
No mention of sex with a non-jew here at all. I think (hard to understand) it is mostly about what day of the week people should be married.

7. “To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of God.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
This seems to just be quoting passages from the the Bible:

R. Hanina said: If a heathen smites a Jew, he is worthy of death,* for it is written, And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian.** R. Hanina also said: He who smites an Israelite on the jaw, is as though he had thus assaulted the Divine Presence; for it is written, one who smiteth*** man [i.e. an Israelite] attacketh**** the Holy One.*****
*[By the Hand of God, V. Yad, Melakim. I, 6].
**Ex. II, 12. Thus Moses slew the Egyptian for striking an Israelite, proving that he had merited it.
***Deriving mokesh from, nakosh.
****Yala' [H] is here derived from loa' [H] the jaw: lit., 'smiteth the jaw'.
*****Prov. XX, 25.

9. “Everywhere they (the Jews) come, they will be the princes and the lords.” (Sanhedrin 104ª)
This is in a story about a Jew that was taken captive and was able to deduce that the camel that was walking with them was blind in one eye, and the contents of the barrells the camel was carrying were wine and oil. The captor then freed the Jew and Heathen and said 'Blessed be He who made choice of Abraham's seed and imparted to them of His wisdom, and wherever they go they become princes to their masters!' Then he liberated them, and they went home in peace.
Again, this is just a story.

10.“I (Jahveh) make you (the Jewry) the ancestor of the peoples...” (Schabbat 105ª)
Again, this is just a quote from the Torah. There's some debate about writing letters as abbreviations, and that's one of the quotes from the Torah citing abbreviations are ok. (I think).

12.“There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren’t their wives.” (Talmud IV / 4 / 81 + 82ab)
This seems to be referring to a specific group of people that "do not recognize the marriage bond"

16/19.“Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first.” (Babba Bathra 54b)
Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: The property of a heathen is on the same footing as desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership. The reason is that as soon as the heathen receives the money he ceases to be the owner, whereas the Jew does not become the owner till he obtains the deed of sale. Hence [in the interval] the land is like desert land and the first occupier becomes the owner.

Seems to be saying land _sold_ to a jew by someone who isn't jewish, doesn't belong to anyone until the deed is recieved.

18.“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin.” (Babha Kama 113ª).
Not true and incomplete. One rabbi is talking about a discussion between 2 other rabbis from the past. The scenario the two are discussing is about an unlawful heathen and an Israelite. The part quoted here is:
'Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; so also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party:] 'This is your law'; but if this can not be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent him.
However, the very next sentence says the other rabbi says this should not be done: 'This is the view of R. Ishmael (the view of using subterfuge), but R. Akiba said but R. Akiba said that we should not attempt to circumvent him on accountof the sanctification of the Name'

[edit on 3/22/09 by dreamer01]
Sources:
www.come-and-hear.com...
www.sacred-texts.com...

[edit on 3/22/09 by dreamer01]

So after reading parts of the Talmud for the past couple hours to make the above post, I realize just how easy it is to misrepresent what it is saying. The Talmud is written like a debate. It will present an argument, then counter that argument, then counter that one, and keep on going! It's easy to quote something that was written solely for the purpose of it being countered in the next passsage or even the next sentence.

Say I wanted to present an argument against killing puppies (in the manner of the Talmud) I would say:
R. A said 'It is permissable to kill puppies because they are not human.' but R. D says 'Just because they are not humans doesn't mean cruelty to them should be allowed.'

It would be very easy for someone, like the source from the OP, to come along and say:
dreamer01 is in favor of killing puppies!! On 22nd March he even wrote on ATS: "It is permissable to kill puppies"


And even if something disagreeable is written, what does that really mean? And as someone mentioned before, just because it's written down somewhere doesn't mean people believe it. I'm American, I support the US, but does that mean I have to agree with every law on the books or every politician's point of view? Of course not! So why should this standard be held for religious views? The Torah/Bible/Tao Te Ching/Quran/Dhammapada says XYZ therefore this must be something that every Jew/Christain/Taoist/Muslim/Bhuddist believes!

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by scordar

 

Isn't this the same concept as most other religions? Most religions seem to profess that they are the one true religion, the right one. By joining their religious organization you will be "saved", you will have the ear and love of their god. By failing to commit to their God you are subject to untold misery and punishment.

This belief in Jewish supremacy is based on racism, on if your mother was a Jew. One can convert and be a Jew, but it's best to be married to one and have Jewish children to really be considered "authentic."

The Talmud teaches the Jews to believe in themselves, that they are the personification of God on earth.

This is not the same kind of belief that the Torah teaches, but is contrary to it, more in line with other polytheistic religions.

Judaism also embraces the Babylonian Cabala, which is black magic and the book of sorcery used as the foundation for Freemasonry and other secret societies.

Judaism is a religion, but it is also a belief that one can become a god or collectively God, by being a Jew, by converting to the Talmud and Cabala, as Satan offered Eve when he beguiled her in the Garden of Eden, promising her that she would become a 'god' if she would defy God's instructions not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Judaism has a focal point of contempt and hatred for Jesus and for all nonJews, and that hatred and contempt is what drives and energizes its adherents. This is what I have learned recently about this false religion.

Judaism also is a religion that is moving to world domination, that its destiny is to own and rule the world and to kill all its enemies, those who oppose the Jews or disagree with them or do not want to be a Jew themselves, to study their Talmud and Cabala.

It is also a secret religion, one that is hidden from the goy lest we find out what the Jews really think of us and that we would be horrified to learn of the teachings on sex with children and the preoccupation with excrement in the Talmud.

1) Your title is sarcastic and misleading.
2) Judaism is not a secret society so I don't even understand why it is on this board instead of a religious board.

You probably won't read this, but it's here for the record.

You know, religions are people's personal beliefs. They have a freedom to practice whatever they want, at least in America. If it was up to Christians, probably the Jews, Pagans, Muslims, Satanists, Scientologists, they would all be gone. But you know what, Satanism seems to get picked on even more than Judaism, but people grow up into it. They do. Their parents practice it, they learn it, they BELIEVE it. Just like Jesus, or Mohammad, or Buddha, or any religious belief. Not many Jews actually believe the crap that you listed. Just like not many Christians take every word of advice or suggestion in the Bible. Some do, yes, "Zionists" or whatever you want to call them, but there are Christians who do that with the Bible, too, who think dinosaur bones were planted and who look down on all other religions. Heck, some Christians look down on women because of Eve. So really, what are you hinting at? A society of angry Jews who want to take over the world? Well really Christians have already taken over the world and in all honesty that's not fair either. But perhaps the religion in favor should switch every few hundred years, to give everyone a chance to be represented. And have their beliefs represented.

It's just an ideology, people have lots of ideologies. Like people are anti-abortion and people hate them, people are pro-choice and people hate them. People are Christian or Muslim or Wiccan or Jewish or Zuni or Shamanistic or believe in Jesus or believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and no matter what they think or preach... would you want to get RID of them because their ideas aren't the same as yours? Anything is possible, any belief is possible, any belief has a ground set in reality. I don't happen to know why the Jews do that, probably to just preserve their bloodline to be as Jewish as they can. Clearly they're not going to take over the world, clearly you seem scared that they will, but they can't even live their daily lives without having someone hate them. It's like that for everyone.

But you know what, if this is what they believe, you need to respect it. It's not like all the current Jews just decided to believe that. The document is thousands of years old. Everyone who practices and preaches it now does two things: 1) They don't take everything seriously. Obviously most of it isn't applicable anymore because they don't live in tents in the desert, give sacrifices of bread and spices, they're not in a priestly caste system thing. They're not. 2) They do it because their parents did. If they didn't follow some of those, there would be no "pure" Jews left, you're right. But think about how many Christians or Catholics you know that didn't marry outside their sect. There happen to be MANY MANY MANY more Christians and Muslims in the world than Jews, and I don't blame them for trying to preserve their traditions. Usually intermarrying means compromising, which is fine for some people, but not okay for others, and it generally means that the kids will believe in Jesus because Dad does, or go to church, or at best celebrate Christmas, and have no idea what Rosh Hashanah is. If Jews thought intermarrying was fine, there would be no Jews left. And that's not okay, because everyone should be able to practice the stupid thing called religion.

All of the things you listed were written to preserve a belief system, through preserving a bloodline. If you think this is horrible and Jews are horrible for doing this and for writing these things thousands of years ago, I think you REALLY need to take another look around you, at the Bible, at other religions, and as yourself why this is as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

And even if Jews preached running around in pink clothes, singing Britney Spears, and eating nothing but Grape Jelly, it would be their prerogative. If they wanted to believe that all other religions ate mud and raped babies, then they could believe that all they want. People get hurt all the time because of religious beliefs, that's why we have war. Too many people hate the Jews to ever let them "take over the world," and honestly I don't think it's their goal, unlike some religions which are already in power in some places. But you know what, this is how it works. People can believe whatever they want because they COULD be right in their little variation of what God and Life and Death are. And you could spend your whole life as a Jesus loving man and die and see Buddha and a purple horse and that's a scary concept, and why I generally avoid religion in it's entirety.

I really don't know what you're getting at, maybe you didn't think it through, but it just sounds like hatred to me. You HAVE to accept other religions, no matter what they believe. If you're American, right now you've basically demolished the first amendment, or misunderstood it. Because you think that 1) Jews will take over, when the Constitution forbids a government linked with religion. And right now that part of the amendment has been already taken over by the Christians. So stop worrying. 2) Freedom for everyone to practice whatever religion they want, no matter what it says in a couple thousand year old bunch of pieces of paper. 3) Libel.

I rarely post for this long but I'm sick of all these threads, you don't see me going and quoting from the Bible about why I hate Christians, or quoting from the Quaran about why I hate Muslims, but everyone seems to do that these days, maybe they're scared, I have no idea. I really just dislike all religions but if I posted like that it wouldn't be true, because it's completely not okay to hate someone because of what their religious beliefs are. I would never hate someone or question someone's motives because of their holy books, the books they grew up with. If you had concrete evidence that someone was being hurt, like what's happening in the middle east, or that the Jews really are zomg taking over the world, then I would probably back down, except maybe complain that there are already 5000 threads like that on here.

But this isn't okay. I'm taking a stand and making it clear that I, as an American Citizen, don't think this is okay. I don't think you would like someone to do this to you and your religion, or your parents religion. Because it's just a belief about God and lie and death and we can't change it. If this comforts people to deal with reality (which is all religion does) then you should let them be comforted. Look how you have based your opinions on a thousands and thousands of year old bunch of ink blots on parchment.

It's not okay.


[edit on 3/22/2009 by ravenshadow13]

[edit on 3/22/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by scordar


Also, the Talmud is not:

the jewish "Holy book"

That would be the Torah.

reply to post by dreamer01


Michael Hoffman, noted authority on Judaism, is interviewed by Texe Marrs this week on his program concerning his new book of 1100 pages.

I listened to him this week, and he was saying how the Talmud has watered down and censored versions where the controversial parts are expunged/changed in popular English translations so as to keep the goyim in the dark.

Serious students of the Talmud know what it teaches, and it is racist and very, very evil.

And the Talmud is considered to be the MOST holy book, superceding the Torah.

Madonna and the other converts study the Cabala and the Talmud, not the Torah. That's where all the Satanic power is, which is what people are looking for -- godlike power to rule the world and lord it over people, for fame and fortune. People don't study the Talmud and Cabala to find peace with God and prepare for an eternity in Heaven. They don't care about Heaven, don't believe in Heaven, and just want what they can get here and now, even if it means killing off most of the world to get it.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


Salt, just curious how one would go about seeing the secret non-watered down version of the Talmud?

And when I see Madanna with supernatural satan-like powers, then I'll reconsider, until then, I still don't believe in that sorta thing.

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

I listened to him this week, and he was saying how the Talmud has watered down and censored versions where the controversial parts are expunged/changed in popular English translations so as to keep the goyim in the dark.

Serious students of the Talmud know what it teaches, and it is racist and very, very evil.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

That also means that most Jews can't see it, either. Or maybe, you know, because it was translated and translated books (including the Bible) lose something along the way. I think racism is at play more than once in this discussion and I am done with this thread. Your idea is flawed, people cannot be convinced, I doubt you read my post, and as the religious say "Amen."

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


How is that Michael Hoffman was able to see this super secret version of the Talmud and be given enough time to accurately translate it for his own commentary then ? Something that if it exists would be written on scrolls in old school Hebrew (no vowels) and kept in the deep dark recess of the evil kaballah wielding jews hideouts.

The blind hatred you hold in your heart Salt is gonna cause you so much trouble in the time to come.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth

Judaism also embraces the Babylonian Cabala, which is black magic and the book of sorcery used as the foundation for Freemasonry and other secret societies.

I am curious as to what leads you to believe that Kabbalah is black magic.

First things first. The Talmud, with an English-Hebrew translation, is something like 72 volumes. It's a huge set of writings, and highly complex.

Secondly, the Talmud is written as a debate. A question is posed, and the rabbis debate the topic and typically arrive at a conclusion with the best answer.

There are many, may quotes taken out of context in the Talmud by lay readers that don't read or write Hebrew - a very complex language with many metaphors and hidden, subtle meanings.

Not only do they take the quotes out of context, they go so far as to use these quotes for ammunition to promote anti-semitism.

Just as you can find anti-semitic rants from the Aryan Nation or the KKK, you can also find sound, sensible refutations of these false accusations from the other side of the table:

talmud.faithweb.com...
www.adl.org...

Be very, very careful when citing web sites that defame the Talmud, as you don't know the motivations of the writer. They may not have any idea what they are talking about - and may, in fact, have a racist, anti-semitic agenda.

If you really want to debate this topic, you must first know Hebrew. Secondly, you must have a basic mastery of the Torah - the first 5 books of the Bible. Lastly, you must read the ENTIRE Talmud - with commentary - and place the quotes into proper context. Good luck reading all 72 volumes - It will take you a lifetime of study to understand the complexities of the Talmud.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


Be very, very careful when citing web sites that defame the Talmud, as you don't know the motivations of the writer. They may not have any idea what they are talking about - and may, in fact, have a racist, anti-semitic agenda.

Strange, I found the links you provided to be very one sided and misleading.

Second line.