After the total collapse : how do you see the future ?

Well, it's seems that a global collapse is likely to occur.

This means that all of a sudden, everything of what constituted our world ( our job, our income, our political system, our Nation, everything...) is down.
This means that our currency is down, nobody is accepting for payment any piece of paper on which is printed "ONE something ..."
This means that you don't know what you and your family will eat tomorrow.
This means that a lot of people will be ready to kill you in order to rob the little which is left to you.
This is a total flat reset of the whole system in which you used to live.

Some here have expressed the opinion that it was a necessary stage towards a better world.
Personally, I do agree with this opinion.

But my question is : how do you see the future ?

I think there are THREE great alternatives :

- Alternative 1 : "It's a big crisis, we will overcome it and restaure the system and avoid the errors which brought us there".

- Alternative 2 : "It's the logical end of a bad system. We will build up from the ground a brand new system".

- Alternative 3 : "Nobody will build any system. There will be for a long time a lot of little autarcic communities managing their own survival system."

How do YOU see the future ?

My hope is for choice 2 or 3, leaning heavily on choice 3.

Here's the thing, the economic collapse will not cure greed, and it will not cure sociopaths who will do ANYTHING to make more than others - thus the system starts again - unless we all learn, all ascend.

I am gonna go with choice 3. Noone is really gonna want to trust any goverment or form of it. They are going to want to stay low and out of sight. My community is bigger than yours. You look like you have a better patch of land or more resourses. I think I will take you over.
I don't think civiliation, will be very civil.

Originally posted by orkson
After the total collapse : how do you see the future

A world without me in it.

A total collapse would mean that the medicine supply chain would be interrupted. All us asthma sufferers will have a very hard time of it. Our entire family has asthma. One severe head cold without meds and we'd be in serious trouble.

I see a world where the sick die off.
I see a world where the healthy get sick.
Not pretty.
Primal survival of the fittest.
Good for the species ... bad for my family.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Have you tried magnesium chloride ?
Very cheap but effective medecine.
You could have several years stock of that.
I think that a more natural eating (the one we eat when things are bad) would be a good thing for your asthma.
If .... you overcome your stress.

I don't think they will let it go down like that. I see two different worlds. One where you either conform to slavery of the corporation or you fight and die a miserable life.

You won't see these little communities trying to survive. They won't let them. They will break them up, take the young and imprison the old.

America was the last place on earth you had any kind of chance at freedom. We have elected the last leader of free America. The next step is a global grab of humanity and the last we will see of freedom for a very long time if ever in this world.

America was a great experiment but its over folks. Osama is in charge and changing this faster than any president in American history.

You either serve or be served...

Borrow a page from the history books and look at how the Germans and Japanese survived the total collapse of their economies and governments after WWII. Most of this "collapse" is occurring on paper. It would be different if it were invading armies or a worldwide natural disaster. The most significant outcome would be re-structuring the finance sector with a whole lot of new regulations in place. To the average citizen it means having to go back to living within your means and scaling back on consumables as retail outlets come and go. The only question mark is what will the radicals and extremists do in the confusion - these types continually sow dissent in the best of times and if the government is too preoccupied by shoring up the economy can they keep the lid on extremism?

There are several different possibilities to consider on this one.

First, the United States will be one of the last nations to actually "collapse" if a major event causes the world to begin to systematically shut down. It's been asserted by several intelligence people that a world collapse would domino from a few failed states causing shocks to the political situation around the world.

The first western nation to be effected would be either Ireland or Italy (both of whom are seeing rising riot problems) Note that Rome is seeing a much larger protesting population due to the Mayor's fascist leanings. Along with unemployment problems, Italy, with a "Top Twenty" military, is looking at a possibly major situation in the not-too-distant future.

After the United States, if we assume the collapse tsunami is not stopped in its progress, China would be one of the last nations to actually fall. Its economy is primarily contingent on America's and could survive if America survived.

Now, we have to wonder what would precipitate a collapse. On the track that we are taking now, the life support, in the United States and around the world, will continue. This will maintain the governments of the world even if there is destabilization in third-and-second-world nations. Therefore, we have to look for the tipping-point event that will send us over the edge.

At the moment, we can guess that it would be the combination of a few different factors. The first is the collapse of several second-world nations (by collapse, I mean the disintegration of any form of democratically-elected governments in favor of military juntae or dictatorships). In order for the United States to "collapse" in a similar way, we would need to hit a major brick wall at the same time. This may be the "second Obama depression." What I mean by this is after the artificial inflation of the "stimulus package" wears off in a few months. Other things that could trigger destabilization would be a major natural disaster or a significant attack from a rogue state against Europe. It could also be precipitated by Russian aggression against the Ukraine or Poland.

As far as the OP's question goes, I need a lot more information. All I can say is, that, if worse comes to worst, the boundaries and the definitions of statehood for the next century will be unrecognizable.

My idea, listen to Assimov, Sagan, and Hawking: Move out into the universe. Lower the chance of humanity destroying itself, lower population problems, end hunger, and end war.

As I've posted before, though, the probability of a total collapse of western nations is relatively low. Though higher than it has been since the Cold War, compared to some third and second world nations, the United States and Great Britain are still the most prosperous places in the world. I'd prefer to be optimistic... cautious and vigilant... but optimistic.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Hi Marketeer.
First of all, I don't think that history may give us a learning about what could occur after the present meltdown.
Because it is GLOBAL.
When germany, collapsed at the end of WWII, there was the Marchall plan which gave to germany and Japan the financial means for a take-off.
This plan was payed in good money : the DOLLAR.
To day, the global meltdown is GLOBAL : there is NO GOOD MONEY, because all moneys will be driven down by the collapse of the DOLLAR.
So, no Marchall plan is to be waited for ...

Secondly, the biggest economy in the world (US, so far) will be the most wounded by the global meltdown.

See this link to understand why.

Thirdly, I think you underestimate the size and the consequences of the present Global meltdown.
One single sign : there were 650.000 more unemployed persons in US, in the single month of February. This means 650.000 incomes turning down.
There are today some 9% of the working population of the US who is unemployed. It could double within months. Then ... You see, it's like a wooden barr. You may bend it until suddenly, it breaks.
And when the incomes collapse, nothing may go on.

There's some sort of DENIAL of the fact that we are really in very great trouble.
My question is, how do you see the future if this goes real ?

reply to post by Iago18


Hi, Iago18.

the United States and Great Britain are still the most prosperous places in the world.

Yes, you are really VERY optimistic ...
I think that the domino effect you're talking of will not be from down (the "little" countries) to top (towards the "great" ones), but from the Great economies towards the little.

I think the first to really collapse with a global effect will be the DOLLAR driven economies. That is, US, Mexico, Canada, Ireland, UK.
Then this will drive down Japan, China, India, Europe, South America.
Russia is a special case. They will suffer, but less than Europe.
The "third world" countries wil be less concerned by the meltdown of the great countries : they are already in a deadful state.

reply to post by orkson


I think that is a very valid angle. However, a lot of the smaller nations if the world are reliant on the US Dollar and the British Pound. Our two nations can withstand a much worse economy than those smaller nations trying to raise themselves from third-world status.

The destabilization of the US Dollar would seriously effect its trading partners first, as the United States, as we observed in the Stimulus Debates, will first move to protect its own (the "Buy American" debacle).

Though it may be a moot point in that once the dominoes start to fall, it may be a very rapid process. I tend to disagree that there would be a "top-down" crumbling. Rather, the weaker economies that are reliant on the Dollar and Pound will be the first to be affected.

However, as this type of situation has never been seen before (on such a global scale), you may very well be correct. Though, I hope never to find out.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Have you tried eliminating dairy from your diet? Sometimes dairy products are the cause. www.hsibaltimore.com...

Why do you think it's 'likely' to occur?

Always gloom and doom here, I swear. It can't be a reorganization, it's always something along the lines of: We become like cavemen, rioting, looting, killing each other for food and medicine, a civilized response to an economic catastrophe, that many don't know for certain WILL happen, is not possible.

I would hope at worst, the way banks are run would get a serious look at. Fed.. gone with any luck. There needs to be a lot more transparency in the system. It's so corrupt at the moment, it's sickening.

But even as corrupt and screwed up as it is, I don't think a 'complete' collapse is going to occur. Was listening to Forbes on the radio today. He thinks we'll have a few more months of hard times, but it will slowly climb up. He said it's really not a bad time to buy. I guess I could believe some random doomsayers over financial experts.... meh, naw.

I don't think the future is nearly as bleak as some of you think (and hope, which is disturbing to me), it might be.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by fleabit]

After the intitial news, people will begin to organize and create community gardens to meet their nutritional needs.

Humans are capable of creating a harmony and I believe when the SHTF that is exactly what will happen.

lagardencouncil.org...

No longer will they rely upon foods shipped in from South America and china, they will take matters into their own hands and work together to rebuild America the way we always have, by hard work and agriculture.

Remember this is not drought stricken Africa, nor is it a country which is impossible to grow food in large quantities, and once we stop growing GMO frankenfoods to make bio fuel, we can get back to making real food for hungry people.

Everyone would be smart to read topics of how the Russians
coped with the fall of the USSR...


3 generations in one household, lots of mass transit, family gardens in the near countryside...


there's lots of info out there. heres one;

culturechange.org...

~SNIP~
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So, how can we get the basics if we don’t have any money? How is that done? Good question.

As I briefly mentioned, the basics are food, shelter, transportation, and security. Shelter poses a particularly interesting problem at the moment. It is still very much overpriced, with many people paying mortgages and rents that they can no longer afford while numerous properties stand vacant. The solution, of course, is to cut your losses and stop paying. But then you might soon have to relocate. That is OK, because, as I mentioned, there is no shortage of vacant properties around. Finding a good place to live will become less and less of a problem as people stop paying their rents and mortgages and get foreclosed or evicted, because the number of vacant properties will only increase. The best course of action is to become a property caretaker, legitimately occupying a vacant property rent-free, and keeping an eye on things for the owner. What if you can’t find a position as a property caretaker? Well, then you might have to become a squatter, maintain a list of other vacant properties that you can go to next, and keep your camping gear handy just in case. If you do get tossed out, chances are, the people who tossed you out will then think about hiring a property caretaker, to keep the squatters out. And what do you do if you become property caretaker? Well, you take care of the property, but you also look out for all the squatters, because they are the reason you have a legitimate place to live. A squatter in hand is worth three absentee landlords in the bush. The absentee landlord might eventually cut his losses and go away, but your squatter friends will remain as your neighbors. Having some neighbors is so much better than living in a ghost town.

What if you still have a job? How do you prepare then? The obvious answer is, [...]
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read the speach from an experienced Russian





[edit on 13-3-2009 by St Udio]

reply to post by fleabit

Why do you think it's 'likely' to occur?

- when during years and years, you pay more than you earn
- when you pay with borrowed money
- when the total amount of of what you owe is as high as two times what you earn in a year

Then, comes the time when it's "likely" that people begin to think that you will NEVER be able to pay back what you owe.

And when this time comes, it's "likely" that people will refuse to be paid with pieces of paper on which it's printed "please, pay to the bearer XXX units of MY currency"

Because it's likely that people will end to be taken for dumbs.

So, it's likely that the Global meltdown will occur.

About 30% of the population will die off immediately, then a secondary wave will follow more slowly.

Without a cheap and abundant source of energy, we will live as we did in the 19th century.

The Earth cannot sustain the current population without a replacement for oil. Oil = food. Cheap oil = cheap food.

Food riots this summer, famine, starvation.

It isn't going to be pretty.

Originally posted by St Udio
Everyone would be smart to read topics of how the Russians
coped with the fall of the USSR...


3 generations in one household, lots of mass transit, family gardens in the near countryside...

Good point.

A crash for America will be far worse mentally for America compared to the Russian (former Soviet) crash because Americans have been used to a much higher standard of living, which is coming to an end fast.

Like some others I know, I believe it will be a Mad Max scenario, for atleast a while after the crash.

I appreciate the input from people for the natural asthma helpers.
I can't tolerate many of the natural herbs on the market.
Nor regular meds.
They kick off my irregular heart rhythm.

But I'll keep them in mind and read up. Thanks.

Scenario #3 is probably what will shake out after a long, protracted period of chaos and death.

The TV show Jericho is a pretty good example of what could happen out in small-town America... all while the cities turn into New Orleans in the days after Katrina.