Which Rifle makes a better Sniper Rifle?

reply to post by donwhite

As I understand it, even the slightest cut would serve the function of spinning the bullet so beyond that minimal depth, cutting it deeper might be desirable or useful only to forestall the necessity of cleaning the particles that would normally foul the grove?

To answer your question: Copper or Alloy coated projectiles. All things being equal, a soft lead projectile will spin with very shallow L&Gs, Coated bullets need deeper L&Gs

Is there any scientific method to determine the number of turns?

Yes and No I don't know it...

It is figured on the length of the expected projectile, type of powder, burn rate, amount of expected powder used etc..

Note: Many firearms use various projectile lengths and weights. The most obvious case being the venerable 30:06.. It runs from a bullet weight of 150gr to 220gr and even some special use bullets smaller than 150gr. Bullet length will correspond appropriately.

Does the Federal rule on barrel length apply to rifles as well as to shotguns?

Yes

Is there any reason why I don’t see odd numbers of inches in barrel length?

I have no idea.. Perhaps corporate policies? Nothing legal I know of.

What do you make of that shoot-out as relates to barrel length and range?

The perfect result is when the last grain of powder burns away as the projectile is less than 1mm from exiting the barrel. Then no energy is wasted.

The 22 has a very small amount of powder. Therefor a short barrel will perform usually as well and even better in certain circumstances than a long barrel. But also remember that a shorter barrel means a shorter sight radius and inherently less accurate.

What is your take on bull barrels?

Excellent for extended shooting. You hit it on the head.. It is for dissipation of heat. You will also find "Fluted" barrels on some rifles. The effects of the heat can become extreme with continued shooting. I have personally seen a 3 inch drop at 1K over 15 rounds. And that was with the M40a1 which has a "Bull" barrel.

Also, does the military sniper rifle have a muzzle brake or anti recoil provision built into the barrel and last, does it have a flash suppressor?

I do not know about the new ones personally, they are using the M40a3. The M40a1 did NOT and the pictures I have seen of the a3 do not either.

Does that mean all high quality bolt actions in 2009 are based on this rather old German development?

Yes... In my opinion.. Some may argue... But the Mauser Bolt Design was one of the core greatest inventions in history and I for one do not believe it has been improved on.

Kind of like the 1911, single action pistol

Style of stock. I’m really asking why the military does not use the competition style stock with the thumb hole and full hand grip?

Not practical for combat and many of the shooting positions one finds themselves in when in the field. I personally don't care for them at all.

Thanks for your time.

Anytime.. I enjoy the topic, the interest and your questions.

Semper

reply to post by backyard guru


You have more choices then you give yourself credit for. A 7mm is a good flat shot with less drop then some other rifles. You also (if you can get your hands on one) have the .408 which is a specially developed rifle for just the purpose of taking shots at extremely long distances. The .50cal has come a long way also because of the buffering re-tune it received but if it's a good all around shooter you want you cannot go wrong with a .308 for knock down power.
Scopes on the other hand are the preference of the shooter and a high powered scope is no good if the rifle you have will not deliver the round to the distance you need it to. You also have to be able to calculate your wind speed along with the drop of the round coupled with the rotation of the earth in order to hit what you put your scope on in the first place. It takes soldiers months of intense training to be able to be consistent with the shots they take and more time to be able to line up a shot at long distances. The company that makes the .408 also has a computer they helped to develop that does the calculations on long distance shots but good luck trying to find one as they will be dedicated to being used by soldiers in the field or by other agencies that require them.

reply to post by rwdavis


I'm not familiar with the 408.. (Been out of the ""Business"" 20+ years)

Do you have a link for information? Or can you impart some?

I am fairly familiar with the 50

Semper

To the poster slamming the 300 wm as a shoulder killer. The felt recoil of a 300 is not much more than a 30 06. If recoil is an issue then what you do is buy a SIMs LIMBSAVER recoil pad. If you want superior recoil reduction either get a BOSS compensator or have your barrel directionally ported like mine is. You can even get a wussy pad for your shoulder which will reduce recoil substantially. Out of the 3 cartidges listed the 300 is the most effective and "flattest" shooting of them. I have several rifles but my go to rifle and my favorite is my Model 70 300 win mag for hunting anything deer size or larger. The claim that belted cartridges are harder to reload is unfounded. We never had any problems with them. Reloading cost is only pennies more than loading a 308 or a 30 06. Remember the only difference is the powder charge and case dimensions. They all use the same bullets.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

 

You do realize all of those stats are subjective?

I have personally made 1200yds Plus with the 308

Semper

Yeah I think they were talking about average folk, not sniper trained
like you.

I managed a sharpshooter rating, but never could manage 40 of 40.


[edit on 23-3-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

reply to post by rwdavis

In reference to the computer they are using to compute long shots
someone has made an Ipod app that will do something like that.

Ipod touch and ballistics software

Tempted to set one up, but to be honest I shoot ok with my scope
and my .30-06 and that works for me.

With a laser bore scope you can line up your gun dead accurate.

High end laser bore sight tool

I went with a basic laser bore sight tool.

With 2,700 ft. per sec. of muzzle velocity 900 yds goes by in 1 sec.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by backyard guru


If you have a thousand dollars here the rifle you want used in sports Competitions.
Remington 700 Milspec 5R

Caliber: .308 Win (7.62x51 NATO)
Barrel: Stainless Milspec 5R
Barrel Length: 24" (610mm)
Twist: RH 1:11.2"
Weight (Rifle only): 8.25 lbs (3.75 kg)
Overall Length: 43.75" (1111mm)
Magazine: 5 Round Internal Box
Trigger: Remington X-Mark Pro
Stock: HS Precision Composite
Finish: Stainless
Price: Around $1050 USD

If you want the absolute best thats probably Berret firearms they range any where from 3000 to 9000 USD. This one can punch though armor!

Model 82A1 semi-automatic

Caliber - .50 BMG
Barrel lengths - 29 inches (73.7 cm)
20 inches (50.8 cm)
Barrel twist - Right, 1 in 15" (38 cm)
Weights - 30.9 lbs (14.0 kg) (with 29 inch barrel)
29.7 lbs (13.5 kg) (with 20 inch barrel)
Length assembled - 57 inches (145 cm) (with 29 inch barrel)
48 inches (122 cm) (with 20 inch barrel)
Front sight: - .070 inch flip up. (1.78 mm) wide post
Rear sight: - .065 inch flip up. (1.65 mm) aperture, 1500 meter adjustable
Sight radius: - 23.3 inches (59 cm)
Scope rail: - 24 inches (61 cm) long
Price: Around $8900.00 USD
If you cant afford either of those to options

Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special

Calibers: .223 Rem, .22-250 Rem, .308 Win
Barrel: Medium contour (weatherby #3, .740" at muzzle)
Barrel Length: 22" (559mm)
Twist: RH 1:12" (.223 & 308) RH 1:14" (.22-250)
Empty Weight: 8.25 lbs (3.75 kg) no scope & empty
Overall Length: 41.5" (1054mm)
Magazine: Internal 5 round magazine with hinged floorplate
Trigger: Weathery, fully adjustable
Stock: Injection-molded monte carlo style synthetic stock
Finish: Matte Blueing
Price: $587 MSRP.

Now you just have to decide what you can afford

reply to post by semperfortis


From wikipedia: The .408 Cheyenne Tactical (or .408 Chey Tac) is a specialized rimless bottlenecked centerfire cartridge for military long-range sniper rifles that was developed by Dr. John D. Taylor and machinist William O. Wordman. It was designed with a possible military need in mind for a cartridge for both the anti-personnel, anti-sniper and anti-materiel role with a (supersonic) precision range of 2,187 yards (2,000 m). It is hoped it will fill in a supposed market niche as an intermediate between the existing military long-range cartridges .338 Lapua Magnum and the .50 BMG.

www.cheytac.com...

reply to post by backyard guru


As a long time shooter and the owner of a 300 mag, a 308 and a 270 winchester, the 270 winchester is one of the flatest shooting rifles of the bunch. Use a 130 grain soft point it will take deer to 500 yds plus if you are a good enough shot and has more knock down power at that range than a 308. The 300 mag is a 1000 meter rifle but the kick and muzzel blast is very bad. A 30-06 is ok also and has been used for 1000 meter shoots for years by army snipers but againg it has a stroung recoil.. One other cartridige is a 22-250, extremely flat shooting and moderate recoil. The 270 130 grain is still my favorite and have taken deer at 400 plus yds leaving an exit hole of softball size. Will also penetrate class 3 and class 3a body armor at 300 yds plus. Recoil is moderate and ammo easy to get. Hope this helps. americanman1

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by donwhite

 

Style of stock. I’m really asking why the military does not use the competition style stock with the thumb hole and full hand grip?

Not practical for combat and many of the shooting positions one finds themselves in when in the field. I personally don't care for them at all.

The Brits have been using the Accuracy International range of weapons (L96A1, and more recently the L115A3) for over 20 years with no problems at all. The M501 in use by Italy also has a thumbhole stock.

Having used the L96A1 for several years in the past I fail to see which positions are dificult to adopt.

"sniper" weapons are based on the individual ... understand that the cartridge bears some weight, you cannot "snipe" someone with a 22lr. but if an inexperienced individual uses a 50cal armalite it will yield similar results ... the best results come from someone who "Knows" their weapon ... nothing replaces trigger time on a specific model of weapon in any cartridge

in other words , its not the rifle that does the job its the fellow behind the scope and the bullet in the barrel.

if its not for competition , you can manage with a high caliber hunting rifle and a custom barrel and stock ,

but if you can afford go for a Sako TRG or a Dragunov SVU, should be accurate and tested for long lasting quality.

personally I like the RAMO M650 rifle....by Redick Arms Development. Circa 2000 Redick Arms which was purchased by Ramo Defense...

totally awesome weapon...

My dad has a .308 that we take deer hunting often. That is really what i would have but then again im not as experieced with bolt action rifles. I'm more of a AR-15 or AK-47 person. I dont have the patience of a sniper.

My .308's and .270's can shoot better than I can.

The .338 Remington UltraMagnum holds a fascination for me, and if I lived in mountainous country, I'd have to have one. It pushes a 250 grain bullet at 2,900 fps - puts 2440 ft/lbs of energy on the target at 400 yards, which is more energy at 400 yards than a 30/06 with a 180 grain bullet puts on target at 100 yards.

Best of all, unbelievably, it's easy on barrels.

With recoil compensation, it's very manageable. But you'd probably want to reload for economic and consistency reasons.

reply to post by donwhite

Is there any scientific method to determine the number of turns?

Yes, it basically has to do with the length and caliber of the projectile. The longer that the bullet is the more turns per inch. As well, the smaller the caliber, the more turns per inch.

It all has to do with stabilizing the bullet in flight. If the spin is not fast enough for a long bullet, then the bullet will tumble.

Muzzle loading rifles that shoot a round ball (just as long as it is fat) will have a long turn per inch. Typically 1:48".