What was Jesus doing from age twelve to twenty nine

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by miriam0566
but when it comes to jesus, and a story that implies that each of us are personally responsible for the lives we lead, well, suddenly there is no proof.

Ah, my favorite fool is at it again!

[edit on 11/3/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

That is an insulting flame, and you should know better! Miriam is no fool, rather she is very intelligent.

As for the part of Jesus life that it is not in the bible, it's because God felt it wasn't relative to the importance of what Jesus did when he came to the earth.
All the important events took place AFTER Jesus baptism.
The one thing we know is that he was doing carpentry work, can you imagine what an awesome carpenter, God's own perfect son must have been.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
In regards to the miracles that were performed by Jesus and Christians. Would it not be possible that someone like David Copperfield would be considered a God back then? Someone who is really good at illusion claiming to be the Son of God back in a time when scientific investigation as we know it did not exist.

.. You think if he said he was the descendant of their God they would take him seriously?

possibly yes.

but certain "magic tricks" that jesus did would be impossible without advanced preparation.

feeding the people with the bread and fish for example would require advanced preparation (time for which jesus didnt have because of the crowds)

the healing that he did was not like the faith healers today (they use pre selected people, bring in someone who is sick at random and they wont touch them). jesus would heal people that the local knew without a doubt were sick. (the blind man at the synagogue was known to the people that attended regularly)

so i see your point, but the miracles that jesus performed usually wasnt eye candy

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by miriam0566
but when it comes to jesus, and a story that implies that each of us are personally responsible for the lives we lead, well, suddenly there is no proof.

Ah, my favorite fool is at it again!

[edit on 11/3/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

fools should be ignored. so feel free to use the ignore button

reply to post by miriam0566


Granted that the bible says that these things were fantastic and large scale. I seem to remember a magician performing the miracles of Jesus in front of an audience, not sure about prep time though. However, I still find it hard to believe these things. Why can't Christians of today perform miracles like the Christians of the past? What happened to all the great and magical things like giants, demons, sea monsters, and angels? There are just too many unanswered questions for me I guess.

I look at humans in the past and I notice a pattern (as do many people). Every single generation of humans prior to scientific explanations all used Gods to explain things they could not explain. Why would a Christian God ever allow his creation to worship false Gods such as Zeus, Shiva, etc. for such a long time? I'm not sure you subscribe to the young earth creationist view, but if you do, why did it take god 6,000 years to send his only son to save mankind? If Christianity is the one TRUE religion How come it is the second largest religion and not the first? I don't expect you to answer these questions as anything you present isn't going to satisfy my curiousity, short of God materializing in front of me. But hopefully this will provide a glimpse into the mind of a non-believer and why we seem so skeptical (and sometimes rude).

Originally posted by miriam0566


fools should be ignored. so feel free to use the ignore button

Nah, this is more fun. I am a fool myself, so about the ignore... Same goes to you. I love fools, what would life be without us?

Originally posted by miriam0566

what would you consider extraordinary proof?

those resurrected by jesus died again.
those who were healed eventually died too.
those who witnessed jesus' live did write about it.

what exactly do you feel would prove it too you?

Much more than a well-thumped bible that’s for sure

no, thats not what im saying. im christian, as such i dont believe buddha or mohammed to be true prophets. however i noted that they do have a following.

Ok so if you had been born in the parts of the world where those beliefs where more popular you would have been one of them?

i know the word sheeple gets thrown around alot, but you have to remember, people back then believed the religion you were raised in. especially the jews of that time. for another religion to come along and actually preach and to say to people to change was unheard of in that time.

Which is why Christians have Christmas (a pagan festival)
Basically the early church bent its beliefs in such a way as to make them acceptable to other religions and people who wouldn’t be tricked by that approach where persecuted (another holocaust and one I bet you are happy to deny) – all of this was simple politics and nothing spiritual

im saying that the fact that it even took off is a strong testament that jesus was a real person in of itself.

its a strong testament that people didn’t wont to get burned on the bonfire or get a spike up the bottom

things did not get ugly until after the first century and even then, it didnt really get bad until the 4th.

So what are you saying here - it was Christians doing it so no problem?

im not lumping people who arent persuaded by my beliefs. im lumping people who denied that jesus ever existed.

Which amounts to the same thing?

im doing this because it requires the same mindset to make that claim.

You would probably think I was crazy/ignorant if I equated some story about Thor to the holocaust as been equally important

its a way of thinking. you have something that was unquestioned for nearly 1800 years, then suddenly someone says "hey, jesus might not have ever existed".

Well for one thing it wasn’t “unquestioned for nearly 1800 years” there are other beliefs around the world you know and there have always been people who can see we are talking about something which is nothing more than a story (they just had to keep a low profile to avoid getting put on the bonfire or a spike up the duff)

its the denying of something that is inconvenient to accept.

if you dont believe or follow the bible, thats your choice. but to say that jesus might not have ever existed is pointless. why would you even care? some do care because its something they wish would go away.

you might not understand because maybe it really is inconsequential to you. but for some that are bitter towards past faiths, they seem to be the ones who argue this passionately

Guilt is a very toxic thing – and the old Christian “he died for you” routine probably still has some kind of an effect on people

Originally posted by 5thElement
What was Frodo Baggins doing on September 22, 2980 T.A. ?

Celebrating his birthday, perhaps ?

The thing is, we will never know, because Frodo is not real, anything we will ever know about him can be found in one of the most greatest stories of all time

Most scholars agree that Jesus was a historical person. Whether he was divine or not is what they don't agree on.

Show me a scholar that believes Frodo was a real historical person.

My guess is that he was in Babylon. That is where the rabbinical schools were. Apparently the Jews that went into captivity mostly stayed there. So the actual centers of Jewish learning were not in Judea. Jesus exhibited a knowledge of the different schools of thought and had enough of a familiarity with them that he could rhetorically play the two sides against each other and basically put a stop to certain public discussions.
When he was called a rabbi, he did not deny it but he took a very independent sort of stance on the current topics of the day.
Jesus was a human and could gain from learning but he was also the Son of God and could cut through all of it to get to the heart of the matter.
Now when he was twelve, he showed his abilities and predisposition to get into serious discussions and I do not think he just stopped being that way. The fact that he was not already widely known as a debater or teacher, before his ministry, tells me that he was somewhere else.


[edit on 12-3-2009 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Originally posted by 5thElement
What was Frodo Baggins doing on September 22, 2980 T.A. ?

Celebrating his birthday, perhaps ?

The thing is, we will never know, because Frodo is not real, anything we will ever know about him can be found in one of the most greatest stories of all time

Most scholars agree that Jesus was a historical person. Whether he was divine or not is what they don't agree on.

Show me a scholar that believes Frodo was a real historical person.

But, everything they ever knew about him they found in one of the most greatest stories of all time...

The Bible

I do agree that those who do not believe in Jesus (in any form be it the son of God or just a man that did exist) shouldn't be trying to force that belief on people in the same way those who do believe in Jesus shouldn't force that on others.

That being said I do like a bit of debate - with thought out reasoning rather then just, 'this is what I think happened therefore it is true' and felt I should comment that im enjoying this thread regardless of my stance on it

Personally im on the side that he did exist but most likely not as the man we are accustomed to seeing him as ... in fact gYv said it far better then I could:

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
I don't think you can claim the man Jesus wasn't real, if so why is their no evidence from the time Christianity started stating that he never existed as opposed to simply trying to denounce him as a madman and a liar.

Therefore I would assume he was being a normal man and living his life during this missing period

Anyone who forces their beliefs on others are Christian in name only. They are the anti-Christ because they substitute a false Christ that is not the actual person who lived and died and was raised to heaven. Their false Christ says, "My kingdom is of this world." Wicked men who devise evil plans to gain political power take on whatever religion that suits their purpose and then twist it to the necessities of their schemes.

Agreed

The main problem with trying to establish just what was/is really going on a religious sense. Whatever was real has been manipulated so much for political gain we dont know where truth ends and lies begin.

Even those who are religious and believe what they are taught should also be keeping an open mind that it is only written word and is very easy to change bits without anyone noticing 1000yrs later. This is not to say I think it is all false, its just hard to tell

So the fact there are no obvious written details about this time period we are looking at means that it has either been hidden, changed/deleted from the records or never existed in the first place. If it didnt exist in the first place then it is likely Jesus wasnt doing any thing of note that was worth writing down (This is all assuming of course there was someone to write about)

reply to post by Enril

Even the time period that we know about from the gospels is a little fuzzy. What was going on in the little parties Jesus attended and what was being discussed among the Pharisees that invited him to their homes?
I think there was an attempt made to show Jesus as being not so attached to the old system, that the ordinary things that would show his rather conventional Jewish scholarship is left to the imagination.
The most striking thing to me is the absence of elaboration on the direct hereditary connection to the office of High Priest. That is the most obvious, to me, reason why he posed such a threat to the establishment of the Temple, because they were not legitimate and basically bought their positions.