To all so called remote viewers and psychics out there..

Why haven't any of you found Madeline McCann? I've looked over some previous posts since 2007 and no one has any idea except for what looks like wild guesses ( "I see a letter K and a field" etc) What use is a "power" like Remote viewing or being psychic if it amounts to the same odds as guessing at random and gives absolutely no verifiable evidence.

Well for one, not many people are gifted enough to be able to see that precisely into anything in particular. Most of the time you are given a vision and it's something small (the color is white!).

Usually major visions only come if the Power deems it necessary for you as an individual.

Also, considering the circumstances concerning her disappearance, I would assume that it would be kind of difficult to view her because at that point, her Fate is no longer in the hands that they were supposed to be in, I would think that visions relating to her would be somewhat muddied to begin with because of that.

I'm far from being a psychic or remote viewer, just my $.02

[edit on 8-3-2009 by bandaidctrl]

reply to post by Throaty Mc Cough



Unfortunatley alot of people who believe themselves to be psychic,,as I do,,wont be heard by any official person.

I tried to find her in Sept 07,I had clues and messages,they told me she was in Cannes In France,,I did tell the police but at the time but of course they didnt listen to me.

Branded bipolar with psychotic symptoms from shrinks


Myself,,well,,Im psychic.

This link is the page on my own site with what I wrote down where Maddie was.

Click here

My point is that if you are not gifted enough to identify anything verifiable, what makes anyone who thinks they are a remote viewer or psychic believe they are actually doing anything other than making things up in their own heads...? Perhaps you "are" merely bipolar or psychotic or just a little out of touch with reality. Again, what use are these powers when you can't use them for anything that a roll of the dice couldn't do? Apparently no one is gifted enough to do anything useful in relation to Madeline McCann.

What is your interest in Madeline?

Your Op seems very condescending towards everyone that has a natural ability or a developed one.

What gives?

Yeh I know what your saying,and it truly does make people question the same question.

There must have been psychics that have tried but obvously failed,that dont mean a particular psychic has lost touch with their gift.

Some things are just not meant to be I suppose.Psychics receive help from guides,,if the guides dont tell then the psychic wont know.

What abilities? The ability to discern a random piece of information with no verifiable connection to a subject. Truly awsome. My interest in Madeline is the same as every other sane person on the planet, ie. where is she. Was just wondering why no one has turned up with genuine information in two years if they are "gifted".

reply to post by Throaty Mc Cough



Well to be completely honest, maybe those who are truly gifted just don't care?

Those that would maybe don't really know anything about the story, I might just be living under a rock (which is a possibility) but I hadn't heard anything of this case until I saw this OP.

There are so many factors that play into being able to "see" someone. To the comment about making stuff up in your head... that's something a lot of viewers face on a regular basis, how do I know if this is all real, am I just shooting in the dark, is this REALLY what I see? Like I said before, unless you're naturally talented with the ability for "seeing" it really is a hit and miss experience.

Those that aren't as talented are always welcome to try, but they are also the ones that voice their findings the loudest, and when they're wrong, society (or the media) takes it upon themselves to judge every psychic, gifted or not, as a crackpot.

I wrote a long thoughtful post about this. Unfortunately I'm stuck borrowing my work laptop while my own is in repair. May I just request of the universe that the bozo who designed the IBM Thinkpad keyboard, particularly how they invented and crammed a little "go back" browser command key in between the undersized arrows and shift key (so it gets hit accidentally while typing and you lose everything) be taken into the street and pummeled. That's my less loving side obviously. I will have to write it all over again later in a text file and paste it in. Gah!

PJ

I said I'd get back to this, sorry it took awhile. Isn't it inconvenient how working for a living interferes with one's ATS social life? :-)

Hi TM:

replying to: Throaty Mc Cough

Why haven't any of you found Madeline McCann? I've looked over some previous posts since 2007 and no one has any idea except for what looks like wild guesses ( "I see a letter K and a field" etc) What use is a "power" like Remote viewing or being psychic if it amounts to the same odds as guessing at random and gives absolutely no verifiable evidence.

Well, it's not really a 'power' -- unless you live in a comic book or movie -- just a somewhat expanded form of awareness, subject to inconsistency, inaccuracy, difficulty in interpretation, difficulty in recording, and other issues more about situations than the psi.

I understand what you're saying here. It's reasonable to expect that if something is real, you'll eventually see some evidence for it.

Can you personally put me in touch with the investigators for this project, and are they willing to work with my team ongoing, provide feedback, retasking as needed, etc.? If so, please PEM me further information.

If not, then there is no possible way that viewers could address that particular situation, and it is illogical and injust to expect anybody to solve a problem they can't even get to. That's like disqualifying someone to even play on a team and then demand they win the game.

Police and other authorities run investigations like those. They are the real investigators. Whether they use psi resources or whether they do so in a way to best leverage them is another story entirely, but that story is about them, as much or more than about psychics.

My point is that if you are not gifted enough to identify anything verifiable

You are using this one specific example of Madeline to assume that there is no psychic alive that can identify anything in the world that is verifiable? You might look into the last 30 years of science research in this area.

I might add that Remote Viewing as an art usually does not 'identify' anyway; it describes. (Whether someone else can use that description to identify something they need to is a separate question. If a viewer's description included a big square water tower, that might be a clue if you were looking within a small city; if it includes a shallow ditch or a white house, well, that's not likely to be too useful for finding anything.)

One thing to understand about remote viewing is that it is free-response psi which means it is DESCRIPTIVE -- not locational. RV is not a locating art. In fact RV is actually pretty bad at locating anything because that isn't what it is, that's like people expecting the average camera to give them GPS readings too -- most aren't designed for that. You can blame the dowsing community for not finding things I suppose, but not the Remote Viewing community. Still, qualified people have to be involved in the effort in order to help.

(...and don't buy the US Government going, "Golly, we SO want to find Bin Laden, we are even hiring psychics!" That's ludicrous. The FBI doesn't even have time to file let alone act on the avalanche of 'psychic tips' they get constantly.)

You might look into Nippon TV stuff on youtube, where viewer Joseph McMoneagle has helped their FBI find numerous missing people on cold case files, including decades-old cases and people who were outside the country. He hands them sketches they use to try and figure out where the person is and they literally overlay these on the scenes later to show you how mind blowing it is. This is impossible to cheat with, nobody knew where these people were, and the investigators have little to go on but what he gives them. But their "on the street" use of this data, and the positive intent of everybody involved, and of course the fact that McMoneagle rocks, has found quite a few people. Here's one of the clips -- this is in Japanese but hang with it and you'll figure out what's going on:

www.youtube.com...

McMoneagle's way of dealing with the fact that they need to 'locate' but as a viewer he is mostly 'descriptive' is, as an artist, to sketch as much as possible. It's funny to watch, on some shows they're just going up to people on the street with his sketch going, "Have you seen a building that looks like this?" driving around until they finally find someone who gives them a clue and, when it goes well, they find it, and they are one step closer to finding someone. He attempts to start at country and if they're in japan he senses, then to start with shape of coastline and then work in from there, trying to pick up on major or 'unique' things to sketch that will be recognizeable when they finally chance on it. In some shows he's even got driving and walking directions (like go X feet this way, then go up some stairs to the second floor, go left, and knock on the 4th door down -- the guy's amazing). The only bummer about McMoneagle is that he is SO good that frankly few others on earth can compare and what 'he' does vs. what nearly everybody else does becomes two different arts, nearly; he is what viewers aspire to. He's also a radically different person than the hokum showmen you normally see in the media--usually making claims about viewing rather than DOING it on real-world, verifiable targets.

continued...

[edit on 10-3-2009 by RedCairo]

what makes anyone who thinks they are a remote viewer or psychic believe they are actually doing anything other than making things up in their own heads...?

If you learn something about legit RV -- as opposed to what is 'sold as that' sometimes on the radio and internet -- you'll find that remote viewing protocol involves "feedback". Although some targets will lack it, the RV protocol builds in feedback as an assumption because without "a hard answer" to compare to the data, you have no idea whether people are really 'viewing remotely' (well, 'sensing' being a better word), or just imagining things or what.

In RV, the idea is that a person gets something unrelated to the target except as a key -- such as a random number, green light, the word 'go', whatever -- and they record their impressions. Critically important is "the doubleblind" (soloblind if they are working alone): that they have no knowledge of the nature or detail of the target intended, and they have NO physiological exposure in any form during the session to anybody who does know that. Otherwise chances are they are using a lot of body-senses (below the conscious level) and not "psi". Psi is kind of a 'warehouse word' that means 'everything we don't have a physical explanation for' which means anything known to science as a way to acquire data must be controlled for; the RV protocol evolves as science learns more, to exclude more.

Once the data is 'secured' (so it can't be changed), in practice or science, the 'real' target (feedback) is revealed so the viewer sees the 'real' answer and just maybe learns something about what they might have done wrong. (This is as much an 'interpretation' and 'communication' art as a psychic art.)

Then the feedback (the real answer) is compared to the data to see how right/wrong/other it was. At that point you can evaluate "whether or not a remote viewing took place" or to what degree.

If the data is wrong/offtarget, then you can't really say it was a 'remote viewing'; it could be free association or anything else.

Any target that does not have feedback, you do NOT know that the data is even 'psychic'. Not until there is feedback to judge it by. If someone goes on the radio and tells you how the world is going to end, that's their opinion, it may or may not be supported by psi, it may or may not (more likely) be supported by insanity or marketing chutzpah, but it isn't supported by 'remote viewing' until feedback occurs and secured data can be compared to hard reality. IF it's accurate, THEN you can say -- if there was no known physiological way for them to get that data (or enough data to guess that based on) -- that a remote viewing took place and the data appears to be sourced via psi.

Obviously this is different for 'psychic' work which does not have the 'remote viewing' attribution; remote viewing is a science-based protocol which is a set of controls to ensure the work is not error, fraud, etc. It might be wrong (eg imagination) but at least it isn't bogus as a process if you see what I mean; the controls are not about psi, they're about ruling out everything-else except that.

Perhaps you "are" merely bipolar or psychotic or just a little out of touch with reality.

Well, plenty of people are, with or without psychic functioning.

Again, what use are these powers when you can't use them for anything that a roll of the dice couldn't do?

See above. But as for 'what use' they are; well, even aside from practical applications, it's a sort of shamanic path of personal development -- I recommend we don't get into that area since you're not going to grok it -- but as an analogy that might make more sense to you, I play guitar, and so far, it has not saved a single person's life. It doesn't even make me money at the moment. In fact there is not a single useful thing that can be said about my playing guitar except that I enjoy it. I think even if that's all there were to something like remote viewing, that would still make it an art equal to anything else. Most arts do not have "must save the world to count" attached to their validity. ;-)

replying to: bandaidctrl

Well to be completely honest, maybe those who are truly gifted just don't care?

Right now, there are people starving in a small country Jane Smith has never heard of. Does she care? No. If you say, "Hey Jane. People are starving in [obscurity]!" She'll think, "Bummer. How sad." But Jane can't personlly go feed all the people in that country; the problem is vastly bigger than what she can deal with; so she'll deal with what she can and let the things she can't change go. So in summary: maybe they really don't care. Not because they aren't compassionate but because they really can't touch/fix the situation so why stress.

There are so many factors that play into being able to "see" someone. To the comment about making stuff up in your head... that's something a lot of viewers face on a regular basis, how do I know if this is all real, am I just shooting in the dark, is this REALLY what I see? Like I said before, unless you're naturally talented with the ability for "seeing" it really is a hit and miss experience.

I agree except I think it's a hit and miss experience either way LOL. Even the best in the world are not always on-target, and even when they're on target, not all their data is accurate.

One reason the RV protocol is really important shows up during the analytic segment of applications. The doubleblind ensures they haven't a clue to the target, and if they are good enough to have fairly specific data, someone who does know the target reading that data can usually get a good idea if they are on or off target.

If they managed to well describe the target 'context', pulling that info out of a hat the size of 'the universe', then there's a good chance something they said may have validity too. If they are not describing anything that looks like it fits in the context of the target at all, well, file 13 and move on.

Without the doubleblind, everything a psychic provides sounds like it could be accurate. They fit the data into the context.

Those that aren't as talented are always welcome to try, but they are also the ones that voice their findings the loudest, and when they're wrong, society (or the media) takes it upon themselves to judge every psychic, gifted or not, as a crackpot.

Good point.

Best,
P

[edit on 10-3-2009 by RedCairo]

Originally posted by Throaty Mc Cough
Why haven't any of you found Madeline McCann? I've looked over some previous posts since 2007 and no one has any idea except for what looks like wild guesses ( "I see a letter K and a field" etc) What use is a "power" like Remote viewing or being psychic if it amounts to the same odds as guessing at random and gives absolutely no verifiable evidence.

If someone ever truly had reproduceable results from remote viewing or any other psychic ability what would you think such a person would do?

Sure fame and fortune might sound nice but you'd have to give up your private life. Some religions might treat you as a saint, some accuse you of practicing black magic. It might even be the start of major religious wars if such a person would choose a faith.

A trip to the mental institution and getting stuffed with pills is a real possibility. Best chance would be to either investigate alone or join some topsecret government agency which would (in theory) work for society as a whole (by predicting and preventing terrorist attacks for example) rather than for a few individuals who have sadly lost their child.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by Dragonfly79]