Roswell Fireman Confesses- It was a UFO!

As far as I am concerned the roswell incident was a recovered foreign satellite or a screwed up first attempt at space flight. It would explain why the governemnt is so secretive about it.

Neither of these explanations have more than an ounce of evidence to support them....and neither would be classified for over 60 years.

A recovered foreign satellite would be the technological equivalent of an 8 track player after even a few years, and would hardly be worth keeping quiet. Not to mention, the first satellite (Sputnik I) wouldn't go up for another decade....

Rockets were still relatively in their infancy at this time, and although they were being tested at nearby White Sands, etc., if this were the explanation, again, we wouldn't have seen a coverup go on for decades, nor would the materials be flown to top foreign technology bases.

Here are the FACTS (as agreed by believers and skeptics alike). Look at these, and try again for another explanation.

1. Something crashed near Roswell, NM in early July of 1947.
2. Debris was recovered by the US Army (this was prior to the Air Force's existence).
3. The US Army released a press statement they had captured a flying disc.
4. The debris was flown to top foreign technology bases including Ft. Worth and Wright Field (as it was known at the time).
5. The military's explanation is the debris was from Project Mogul (neoprene balloons, balsa wood, and foil paper) and that any bodies seen were from Project High Dive (a test that didn't occur until 5 years AFTER the Roswell incident).
6. Mogul was classified for over 60 years, although many similar projects were declassified within 10 years of occurrance (and Mogul used off the shelf materials, only it's purpose was classified, and that purpose was obsolete within a few years after the tests).
7. Dozens of witnesses including military officers, townspeople, have stated the properties of the debris were unlike anything they've seen before or since the incident.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by xuenssy
'We have to realize that until a story is officially written by the AP and passed along to all media sources this will never be heard by mass population.

Passed Along?

It has been passed for 60yrs?

Originally posted by Gazrok
6. Mogul was classified for over 60 years, although many similar projects were declassified within 10 years of occurrance (and Mogul used off the shelf materials, only it's purpose was classified, and that purpose was obsolete within a few years after the tests).

Yes, for me..The so called Mogul explanation and the dummies was just plain ridiculous, changing their story yet again!

Cherry on the cake of cover up.

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Originally posted by RiotComing
This reminds me a lot of Earl Fulford's testimony last year (ATS thread link HERE) and I believe this fireman fellow is also genuine. Unfortunately in the Fulford thread, I was attacked by skeptical idiots that shouldn't be registered at ATS.. I mean, if you don't believe in this stuff, why pretend you have a concern for Ufology? This is like me signing up at a Hilary Duff forum and telling the members not to buy her cds because she's no Barbra Streisand. Something does not compute!

Sadly, Earl Fulford passed away last August. A telling reminder these witnesses are not going to be around forever. You can read more about the Earl Fulford testimony (and download his interview) HERE - /ckx4sz - at the Open Minds forum.


[edit on 10-3-2009 by RiotComing]

I Want to Believe

There are so many obvious hoaxs on this board, I feel it is my duty
as a honourary member of the royal order of skeptics to question everything.
I never accept anything at face value, without checking if it is valid first.
Anybody that doesn't, well you know....and especially with the Internet.
You wade through tons and tons of crap to find something remotely
plausible. It's probably something like 90% crap, 8% maybe, 5% Intesting and 3% real.

The board is also not just about Aliens and UFOs. And if you deny those
skeptics aren't you blindly accepting the truth.

There are so many obvious hoaxs on this board, I feel it is my duty
as a honourary member of the royal order of skeptics to question everything.

So I have to bow and kiss your feet!

I never accept anything at face value, without checking if it is valid first

Dont we all?


You wade through tons and tons of crap to find something remotely
plausible. It's probably something like 90% crap, 8% maybe, 5% Intesting and 3% real.

Like your post

[edit on 10-3-2009 by Bob Down Under]

Originally posted by yeti101
nowwhere in the army press release did they say it was of extra terrestrial origin. They also never called it a flying suacer the term they used was "disc". In the context of 1947 nobody knew what these flying discs people were "seeing" actually were.

we know the "disc" is a figment of peoples imagination. Theres also a declaisfied memo describing the "disc". 2 feet across , shiny foil, hexagonal shape. Sounds like a radar target to me.

I will get back to you later! and prep fo a good hammering?

[edit on 10-3-2009 by Bob Down Under]

Originally posted by Bob Down Under


Dont we all?

Apparently, No

I could put a picture of a Mouldy cheese sandwich resembling Mary which
is weeping, and people will go amazing, wow, I'll star and flag that puppy.

And the more crazy the post is, the more people think it must be real.

NB: watch, next week theres going to be rush on mouldy cheese sandwiches

Actual example of idiot making ufology look dumb would be the fellow from a week or so back who posted news footage of what appeared to be a meteor crash landing, and decided that a streetlight in the footage was a ufo. It really is beyond belief .... THAT SOMEONE COULD BE SO BLIND!

It might not make any difference to you, or half the population but the US Government DOES seem to think its important for whatever reason, hence the cover up..

Originally posted by Bob Down Under
What a fantastic find, well done.

I have been studing the Roswell case for many years and It is great to see more evidence come to light.

May be one day the US Military will have no option but to admit to the fact.

Thanks Again.

S&F

Poppycock. Your telling me that the highly trained, intelligent people at Roswell who where in charge of NUCLEAR WEAPONS, couldn't tell the difference between foil & dummy's from something more exotic. Utterly unbelievable or realistic. Even in 1947 they weren't idiots. Sorry not buying it.

Originally posted by Gazrok

As far as I am concerned the roswell incident was a recovered foreign satellite or a screwed up first attempt at space flight. It would explain why the governemnt is so secretive about it.

Neither of these explanations have more than an ounce of evidence to support them....and neither would be classified for over 60 years.

A recovered foreign satellite would be the technological equivalent of an 8 track player after even a few years, and would hardly be worth keeping quiet. Not to mention, the first satellite (Sputnik I) wouldn't go up for another decade....

Rockets were still relatively in their infancy at this time, and although they were being tested at nearby White Sands, etc., if this were the explanation, again, we wouldn't have seen a coverup go on for decades, nor would the materials be flown to top foreign technology bases.

Here are the FACTS (as agreed by believers and skeptics alike). Look at these, and try again for another explanation.

1. Something crashed near Roswell, NM in early July of 1947.
2. Debris was recovered by the US Army (this was prior to the Air Force's existence).
3. The US Army released a press statement they had captured a flying disc.
4. The debris was flown to top foreign technology bases including Ft. Worth and Wright Field (as it was known at the time).
5. The military's explanation is the debris was from Project Mogul (neoprene balloons, balsa wood, and foil paper) and that any bodies seen were from Project High Dive (a test that didn't occur until 5 years AFTER the Roswell incident).
6. Mogul was classified for over 60 years, although many similar projects were declassified within 10 years of occurrance (and Mogul used off the shelf materials, only it's purpose was classified, and that purpose was obsolete within a few years after the tests).
7. Dozens of witnesses including military officers, townspeople, have stated the properties of the debris were unlike anything they've seen before or since the incident.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by Gazrok]

[edit on 10-3-2009 by atsbeliever]

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Originally posted by franspeakfree

If your suggesting that the world only advanced because of Alien Tech
then companies like Intel, IBM, Mcdonnell Douglas are also in it.
That's just crazy talk.

It's not crazy at all. One of the reasons I am interested in UFO's is a result of something someone told to me years ago. I was a computer consultant at Bell research, in 1999. Doing Y2k updates. One day I was outside smoking and guy asked me what I did. When I told I there updating their computers he said "Do you know Microprocessors or a result of alien technology?" I asked how he knew? He told me he used to work for Nasa, he was part of the development team for the first microprocessors.

At the time I thought he was messing with me. Obviously 10 years later I think there may have some truth to it. He was very open about it, however everyone thought he was eccentric.

Peace
Trustnobody

nowwhere in the army press release did they say it was of extra terrestrial origin. They also never called it a flying suacer the term they used was "disc". In the context of 1947 nobody knew what these flying discs people were "seeing" actually were.

we know the "disc" is a figment of peoples imagination. Theres also a declaisfied memo describing the "disc". 2 feet across , shiny foil, hexagonal shape. Sounds like a radar target to me.

They may not have said it was ET in origin, but it obviously wasn't theirs, and the debris was taken to bases specializing in analyzing foreign technology. Since it still hasn't been stated we recovered an object from a foreign power (and any terrestrial 1947 foreign tech would be well past being unclassified by now), it's a pretty logical conclusion it ain't from 'round here...

Kenneth Arnold's sighting was just weeks prior to the event. The term "flying saucers" was not yet in common use, and the phenomenon was just barely started. It was called a disc in both the press release, and the memo in Ramey's hands. If you have an issue with it being called a "disc" don't blame the witnesses or UFOlogists, blame the military.

As for that "memo", it appeared only (relatively) recently, and doesn't match the eyewitness accounts (which include military officers) that handled the debris and doesn't match the disc descriptor given in the release or Ramey memo. The description in the FBI memo is of course that of a RAWIN reflector (as used in MOGUL), and seems to be deliberately "declassified" to go along with the already known MOGUL coverup explanation.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by Gazrok]

reply to post by Gazrok


you cant make out any writing from the memo in the office photo. If you think you can your deluding yourself. Give anyone this picture with no context nor even a diffirent context and they will pick out diffirent words . This has been done many many time add nausea. Its physically impossible with the resolution of the photo

n the debris your right it wasnt theirs it was the balloon teams debris. None of these military personel who handled the debris from the ranch would have seen it before.

The roswell balloon wasnt the only "flying disc" to be recovered in 1947. Several members of the public reported crashed "flying discs" to the authorities. Silver foil like material, hexagonal or diamond shaped, some were found partially melted. Guess what they were?

The term "flying disc" in 1947 meant anything and evrything that had fallen out the sky and couldnt be identified. Its not literally a disc shaped object. But thats what pro-roswell ufologists have tried to make everyone believe since 1978.

Now i havent even mentioned the 1st hand testimonies surpressed/ covered up by pro roswell ufologists because it doesnt describe what they want. Bessie brazel gives a lovely description of the debris.

"The debris looked like pieces of a large balloon which had burst. The pieces were small, the largest I remember measuring about the same as the diameter of a basketball. Most of it was a kind of double-sided material, foil-like on one side and rubber-like on the other... Sticks, like kite sticks, were attacked to some of the pieces with a whitish tape. The tape was about two or three inches wide and had flower-like designs on it. The 'flowers' were faint, a variety of pastel colors... The foil-rubber material could not be torn like ordinary aluminum foil... I do not recall anything else about the strength or other properties of what we picked up. We spent several hours collecting the debris and putting it into sacks. I believe we filled about three sacks... We speculated a bit about what the material could be. I remember dad (Mac Brazel) saying 'Oh, it's just a bunch of garbage.' "

she also said this about the photo of the debris in Rameys office

"The debris shown does look like the debris we picked up."

but you wont find those quotes in any pro roswell book. Why are roswell ufologists so dishonest? maybe becuase they have to be?

Marcel in 1978 looked at the Ramey office photo and confiormed that was the debris recovered from the ranch. We all know now its balloon debris only when it was confirmed did the story change. And theres a pattern with changing stories ... everytime soemthing like that debunks roswell the story changes. How convenient.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
you cant make out any writing from the memo in the office photo. If you think you can your deluding yourself. Give anyone this picture with no context nor even a diffirent context and they will pick out diffirent words . This has been done many many time add nausea. Its physically impossible with the resolution of the photo

Yeti101, I see nothing has changed. Here in the above quoted paragraph, you actually disagree with yourself internally.

Either there is writing or there isn't. There is no halfway.
Whether or not YOU can make it out is really rather irrelevent in that EVERYONE can make out that it isn't written in English.

For example, if you and I see different things in a Rorshach Blot, all that means is that we see different things.

It doesn't mean that because we don't see the same thing then the blot doesn't exist.

Sheesh. You do realize you were attempting to argue with Gazrok, right?
Internally inconsistent argruments don't even work with Newbies. My goodness man, step up your game!

-WFA

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Of couse there text. But you cant make out any words its a blur of pixels. how is this contradictory

so the only correct answer to what that text says is the answer roswell believers come up with? rofl

The fact anyone even debates what the text says tells us its unclear. If it was clear there would be no debate. QED

[edit on 10-3-2009 by yeti101]

reply to post by Amabo Kcarab


The relevant idea to wanting the truth is free energy, it lies within those craft, and that would effect us all in a good way. So, you would benefit financially by having the truth come out and the veil of secrecy lifted.

No more global warming issues
No more oil or gas to buy
It would almost totally cut off the funding of terrorism Worldwide

The military only sees these craft as an additional source of back engineering high tech weaponery. That doesn't benefit anyone

Originally posted by yeti101
you cant make out any writing from the memo in the office photo. If you think you can your deluding yourself.

Originally posted by yeti101
Give anyone this picture with no context nor even a diffirent context and they will pick out diffirent words .

NOTE:
in⋅ter⋅nal   /ɪnˈtɜrnl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tur-nl] Show IPA
–adjective 1. situated or existing in the interior of something; interior.
2. of, pertaining to, or noting the inside or inner part.
3. Pharmacology. oral (def. 4).
4. existing, occurring, or found within the limits or scope of something; intrinsic: a theory having internal logic.

Source: dictionary.reference.com...


in·con·sis·tent (ĭn'kən-sĭs'tənt) Pronunciation Key
adj.
Displaying or marked by a lack of consistency, especially:
Not regular or predictable; erratic: inconsistent behavior.
Lacking in correct logical relation; contradictory: inconsistent statements.
Not in agreement or harmony; incompatible: an intersection inconsistent with the road map.
Mathematics Not solvable for the unknowns by the same set of values. Used of two or more equations or inequalities.

Source: dictionary.reference.com...


While you're rolling there on the floor Yeti, perhaps a bit of critical thinking might be in order? Your skills seem a bit lax since last we met. I like debating people with good brains who use them.

I know you've got a good brain in there, is this really the best way for you to apply it when attempting to argue this case?

-WFA

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


you picked me up wrong thats all. I'll make it nice and clear for you. Yes theres text on the document in his hand. Nobody can make out what it says. I hope thats clear enough for you now.

would you care to address any of the other points i made?


[edit on 10-3-2009 by yeti101]

you cant make out any writing from the memo in the office photo. If you think you can your deluding yourself. Give anyone this picture with no context nor even a diffirent context and they will pick out diffirent words . This has been done many many time add nausea. Its physically impossible with the resolution of the photo

Agreed, but with the exception that certain words such as DISC, VICTIMS, WRECK, references to a second site, etc. are very clear, and given the date, is more than a coincidence.

n the debris your right it wasnt theirs it was the balloon teams debris. None of these military personel who handled the debris from the ranch would have seen it before.

If you doubt the ability of senior intelligence officers to identify foil paper, balsa wood, and neoprene, then truly, I wonder why we trust them with billions of dollars in equipment (and these officers were trusted with the A bomb...)

The roswell balloon wasnt the only "flying disc" to be recovered in 1947. Several members of the public reported crashed "flying discs" to the authorities. Silver foil like material, hexagonal or diamond shaped, some were found partially melted. Guess what they were?

I wasn't under the impression we were discussing other recoveries. None are as well documented in both the military, press, and witnesses, as Roswell...apples and oranges.

The term "flying disc" in 1947 meant anything and evrything that had fallen out the sky and couldnt be identified. Its not literally a disc shaped object. But thats what pro-roswell ufologists have tried to make everyone believe since 1978.

Excellent, please provide a reference to support the statement "flying disc" was used as opposed to UFOB as recorded in most official military documentation of the time. In addition, as I stated, this was just weeks after Arnold's sighting... The Roswell witnesses of the secondary crash site described a more arrowhead shaped vehicle, albeit curved. I wasn't even pro-Roswell when I went into the research of the case. I expected to make a strong case for Mogul, until the evidence and the military's actions simply didn't fit a Mogul retrieval.

Now i havent even mentioned the 1st hand testimonies surpressed/ covered up by pro roswell ufologists because it doesnt describe what they want. Bessie brazel gives a lovely description of the debris.

Bessie? Are you kidding me? She was like 9 then... And if you review my Roswell threads, you'll see I do address her statements, as well as other, more discredited witnesses such as the White Sands radar operator, etc. I will certainly agree that many witnesses' testimony doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but there are many others that do. In addition, decades aren't the best filter for total recall either. But, with Roswell, there is far more than testimony to go on...there is the very fact that the military has blatantly lied (i.e. High Dive being a key example) and effected a coverup.


[edit on 10-3-2009 by Gazrok]

1. If it was a satellite or a failed space craft, why still keep it a secret? That technology would be out of date by now.

2. Project Mogul was not as classified as the Air Force has made it out to be as Major Kevin Randle has done a lot of research on that aspect:

kevinrandle.blogspot.com...

3. The intelligence personnel would of been able to tell the difference between a balloon and a disk.

4. The fireman tells of the full bird colonel coming to their firehouse to tell them to keep quiet. Why would the top dog do that?

5. All the second hand testimony of persons seeing road blocks and other events that happened are pieces of the puzzle. They may not seem important independently, but when added together put the puzzle together.

reply to post by Gazrok

Agreed, but with the exception that certain words such as DISC, VICTIMS, WRECK, references to a second site, etc. are very clear, and given the date, is more than a coincidence.

No its not clear at all. Maybe if you have a tremendous imagination it might be clear. To any sane rational human being you cant say any word is clear.

If you doubt the ability of senior intelligence officers to identify foil paper, balsa wood, and neoprene, then truly,

No i dont doubt there ability. At no time did anyone from the army say it was of extra terrestrial origin. They probably thought it was russian

Bessie, Are you kidding she wass like 9 then

Oh dear gazrock what a blunder. Bessie was 14 and is never quoted by pro roswell ufologists. Brazel junior was 8 and he is the one that gets his testimony in all the books. You have it totally backwards.

I'm glad to see you agree brazel jnrs testimony is unreliable _


[edit on 10-3-2009 by yeti101]