MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer

reply to post by Learhoag


I cant imagine where you are coming from. How would anyone know that there where "nor (crashes ) anywhere on Planet Earth" unless it was on word from god or a personal global opinion. They have been reported on every continent. You've gotta help me on this my friend.

I'm not sure such an argument can hold much credibility. We've seen stuff dude! Military high command to mom and pops. I cant see how you could possibly substantiate such a statement. Who do you know who could know?

I would invite you to explain a bit more. Without any doubt we are here to discuss, and you might have an interesting premise. All fair game here. If all can be trusted to be civil, intelligent and non evasive.

All ears.

ZG

I've been critical of this offer to give MUFON money. I posted my objections and I've been taken to task.

Just to bust a few more chops, here is a quote from another thread: Stick figures caught on video surveillance footage. and comments by jimmyX who is agreeing with my criticism of the video: "i tend to agree with you, camera way to blurry, no copy was allowed to be made, seems to me someone wanted attention. i'm kinda surprised at MUFON for giving this so much credence. with the amount of "fakery" taking place with new software, it's even more important to be vigilent and and have a more critical eye."

That is one example from another voice as to what is wrong with MUFON, they are "whores"!

reply to post by Learhoag


Could you stick to the subject of the thread?
Or are you wanting to call into question the overall credibility of the organization?
If so, you should start a new thread telling people that no craft has ever crashed on Earth's soil and the MUFON is a "whore" as you call it. (interesting enough since their work is all voluntary until the mention of this very story)...
I would really be interested in hearing it, editor.

In the meantime, I don't care who in the hell agrees with you on what. That doesn't make you right in this case.

Originally posted by Learhoag
More on.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

wow, learhog, you really have contempt for the mufon organization. at least they have mostly honest people world wide trying to find answers with nothing but a few bucks in their pockets and spare time. the way i see it, you have a large base of people that are more then eager to help out, just for the sheer joy of somehow discovering something. that is alot better then starting from scratch.

You bring up good points. I'm not a believer, I am a skeptic and a debunker whenever possible. I am a UFO witnesser and videographer so I'm not a UFO skeptic. Their reality is beyond reproach.

But let's get down to brass tacks. I'm aware of every report of UFO crashes, worldwide. I depend on evidence to come to a conclusion. At no time have I ever seen any such evidence or heard that such evidence had been acquired. Not a single report of a UFO crash resulted in evidence. No one has any evidence. If anyone had UFO parts, trust me, they'd be millionaires.

You've seen "stuff", dude? What kind of stuff? Where did it come from? Who acquired it? Who declared it was from a UFO? What lab was it taken to? Who performed whatever tests were necessary to declare, irrefutably, that it was from a UFO? You can see where the questioning is headed, I hope.

"Military high command to mom and pops." What does that mean? Whatever it means, can you substantiate it? I don't mean hearsay reports.

I'm being "civil, intelligent and non evasive" and I'm interested in your answers. It can and must be kept on a friendly level.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
reply to post by Learhoag

 

I cant imagine where you are coming from. How would anyone know that there where "nor (crashes ) anywhere on Planet Earth" unless it was on word from god or a personal global opinion. They have been reported on every continent. You've gotta help me on this my friend.

I'm not sure such an argument can hold much credibility. We've seen stuff dude! Military high command to mom and pops. I cant see how you could possibly substantiate such a statement. Who do you know who could know?

I would invite you to explain a bit more. Without any doubt we are here to discuss, and you might have an interesting premise. All fair game here. If all can be trusted to be civil, intelligent and non evasive.

All ears.

ZG

Originally posted by Learhoag
I've been critical of this offer to give MUFON money. I posted my objections and I've been taken to task.

Just to bust a few more chops, here is a quote from another thread: Stick figures caught on video surveillance footage. and comments by jimmyX who is agreeing with my criticism of the video: "i tend to agree with you, camera way to blurry, no copy was allowed to be made, seems to me someone wanted attention. i'm kinda surprised at MUFON for giving this so much credence. with the amount of "fakery" taking place with new software, it's even more important to be vigilent and and have a more critical eye."

That is one example from another voice as to what is wrong with MUFON, they are "whores"!

yes, i did agree with you on that particular video, but that does not mean that there are not serious people in that organization. and when big money comes in to help with equipment and expenses, there might be a renewed vigor. if i had my expenses paid for, and had some high tech equipment, i would set up in sedona, utah, new mexico, nevada for as long as i could take it, just to be able to gather more complete and detailed data.

reply to post by Learhoag


hey learhog, if you still have connections in MUFON and haven't burned all your bridges, why wouldn't you want an opportunity to go back in as a F.I.???

Yes, I do have contempt for MUFON and its volunteers who may be, for all I know, nice people. But these "nice people" are involved in a subject I hold dear to my heart and have done so since 1957. I had a correspondence back in the early 1980s with then director (I believe) Walter H. Andrus and the way he expressed himself was an insult to intelligence. But it's not because of him that I dislike the organization. I've already said that I think that they what do is worthless for it doesn't result in anything worth taking to the bank. UFOlogy hasn't changed one iota because MUFON is on the job.

The volunteers that do field work are not, in my opinion, logical thinkers that employ common sense and reason. I think that this is due to the fact that they are dealing with a "romantic" premise of something that cannot be proven by hearsay and the fact that they themselves become the interest. We're talking ego here, at a certain level. The media is constantly dealing with them and they really have nothing to report that is not already known.

Can you name anything out of the ordinary, something totally unusual, something that has never been known coming from any field investigator? Actually, they remind me of the UFO HUNTERS! A lot of hot air and constant stupid questions and assumptions.

By the way, when I was a field investigator, accumulating nothing but reports and using a ton of paper (before computers!) I was paying my own way and I traveled in the Tri-State area (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut - and Pennsylvania and Vermont). I always got there after the fact and all that happened was that I had to hear repetitious reports. I soon realized that I was wasting my time. And, guess what? Nothing has changed.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Learhoag
More on.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

wow, learhog, you really have contempt for the mufon organization. at least they have mostly honest people world wide trying to find answers with nothing but a few bucks in their pockets and spare time. the way i see it, you have a large base of people that are more then eager to help out, just for the sheer joy of somehow discovering something. that is alot better then starting from scratch.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by Learhoag]

reply to post by Learhoag


well when you put it that way, it does sound discouraging. it seems that one would have to actually have contact or to gather physical evidence to have any "WOW" data that can be used. but this might have the cursory impact of forcing the governments hand as far as releasing the info they have. or that might be the main objective of the billionaires involvement. if i had billions...this would be one hell of an interesting way of spending a little of it. i mean he's not going to go hungry or have to sell a yacht or a mansion if he blows 50 million or so on this.

I do not have any connections to MUFON nor would I want any. I have no desire to become an F.I., again. One should learn from experience and I did. While I do still enjoy seeing UFO videos or photos, always keeping in mind that they could be hoaxes, I do not read reports any longer, they're boring. And how many videos and photos can one take? If it wasn't for NASA videos, I'd retire from UFOlogy, although at 70 I don't do anything any longer connected with UFOlogy, I get all the news about UFOs on the internet and the rare TV news station reports.

There is no UFOlogy any longer. What you have are UFO-celebrities, particularly authors and people that somehow convince TV networks to allow them to present material shoddy in the research department. All of these UFO events are like the street fairs held in NYC where a certain length of an avenue is closed off and vendors line the street with a stage here and there providing entetainment. It's not really a fair, where people can go and get involved, they are all browsers and buyers.

A UFO event is the same. Speakers, merchandise, videos, and more merchandise. No one comes away with any new knowledge.

Well, you got me started.

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by Learhoag

 

hey learhog, if you still have connections in MUFON and haven't burned all your bridges, why wouldn't you want an opportunity to go back in as a F.I.???

[edit on 7-3-2009 by Learhoag]

I can't tell Mr Bigelow what to do with his money. I just feel that he picked a poor cause.

It is the experience that counts. The way your heart starts pumping when you look up and you know that what you're seeing is not connected to any human agency. That is the thrill, not going to someone and asking them to describe what they saw. It doesn't translate to paper or microcassette or cassette recorder or anything used to archive the experience.

Let him blow 50 million on MUFON, I'm not going to be affected by it beyond this thread. But I can tell you that Mr Bigelow will not receive a return on his investment except the satisfaction expressed by MUFON's directors who will probalby see to it they get the biggest chunk and the happy worker bees.

BTW, as I've stated over and over, I don't accept claims that our governemt has anything hidden away that could prove revealing; no craft, no documents.

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by Learhoag

 

well when you put it that way, it does sound discouraging. it seems that one would have to actually have contact or to gather physical evidence to have any "WOW" data that can be used. but this might have the cursory impact of forcing the governments hand as far as releasing the info they have. or that might be the main objective of the billionaires involvement. if i had billions...this would be one hell of an interesting way of spending a little of it. i mean he's not going to go hungry or have to sell a yacht or a mansion if he blows 50 million or so on this.

Originally posted by Learhoag
I do not have any connections to MUFON nor would I want any. I have no desire to become an F.I., again. One should lean from experience and I did. While I do still enjoy seeing UFO videos or photos, always keeping in mind that they could be hoaxes, I do not read reports any longer, they're boring. And how many videos and photos can one take? If it wasn't for NASA videos, I'd retire from UFOlogy, although at 70 I don't do anything any longer connected with UFOlogy, I get all the news about UFOs on the internet and the rare TV news station reports.

There is no UFOlogy any longer. What you have are UFO-celebrities, particularly authors and people that somehow convince TV networks to allow them to present material shoddy in the research department. All of these UFO events are like the street fairs held in NYC where a certain length of an avenue is closed off and vendors line the street with a stage here and there providing entetainment. It's not really a fair, where people can go and get involved, they are all browsers and buyers.

A UFO event is the same. Speakers, merchandise, videos, and more merchandise. No one comes away with any new knowledge.

Well, you got me started.

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by Learhoag

 

hey learhog, if you still have connections in MUFON and haven't burned all your bridges, why wouldn't you want an opportunity to go back in as a F.I.???

ok,ok...i guess if i had done 1/10 of the work you have done, and were obviously very passionate of when you were younger, and had seen it all being used just to have people make money off of it...it would have soured me too.

reply to post by Learhoag


Hello Learhog,

You mentioned that you witnessed a UFO? I do not want to get off track but would you please give a brief story on what happened?

Also, I believe Mr Bigelow has already invested a great deal of money in NIDS and did record some data per Mr. Knapp. I do not think there is a smoking gun but obviously he received enough information to want to invest more into the research.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by fworkman]

No matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn't change the fact there are no aliens visiting us from another world. I know many of you desperately want to believe - although I can't imagine why - and this opinion makes me a villian at this site, but the evidence supports me.

If others don't mind my straying off the OP, I'm more than glad to revive those memories for you. I'll be concise.

Los Angeles 1980s:
1) Daytime. Saw a low, close to the ground UFO hovering and behaving as if it was sitting on gentle invisible waves, bobbing.
2) Nightime. In the dim light of the building's lit pool. Sitting on a lounge with my zoom (7-15x) binoculars. Saw 3 stars widely spaced in a vertical row. As I started to continue scanning the top "star" took off followed a few seconds later by the middle one and the bottom one.

Back in New York City 1990s:
3) My wife and I went for a walk in Central Park. The minute we were out on the street and looked up I saw a white "orb" hauling above the clouds, seen between clouds. I pointed it out to another person. In Central Park I was videotaping airplanes rising from La Guardia airport to learn to hold the 20X optical zoom steady. As I zoomed in I lost my balance on the stairs I was standing on and later at home viewing the footage saw that I had captured a stationary white "orb" while a passenger jet ascended.
4- While waiting for a bus I looked up and notice a small, almost transparent cloud and behind it a stationary white "orb." Without taking my eyes off it I reached for my digital camcorder, turned it on and uncapped the lens. I brought it up to my eyes and saw nothing. The night before I had experimented with the Night Vision and forgot to turn it off so when I looked through the viewfinder, saw nothing and when I looked at the UFO with my eyes it was gone.
5- Taking a walk and constantly scanning the sky as I've conditioned myself to do I saw a dark circular object hovering high up. I stopped and stared at it for 5 minutes joined by another curious person. We saw the object sit there giving the impression that it was spinning. Eventually, it rose very slowly to infinity.

I've never experienced missing time and at no time have I ever been visited by the MIB.

Regarding George Knapp, I don't think highly of him, he's an opportunist and doesn't necessarily require truth. As for NIDS, somewhere on the web you can find serious criticism of the way things have been handled at that location by so-called investigators, not very intelligently and not resulting in anything worth further investigation. I'm aware of what's been written about the ranch and the surrounding area. I don't buy it but I'm open to new data.

Originally posted by fworkman
reply to post by Learhoag

 

Hello Learhog,

You mentioned that you witnessed a UFO? I do not want to get off track but would you please give a brief story on what happened?

Also, I believe Mr Bigelow has already invested a great deal of money in NIDS and did record some data per Mr. Knapp. I do not think there is a smoking gun but obviously he received enough information to want to invest more into the research.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by fworkman]

Originally posted by Tippys Dad
No matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn't change the fact there are no aliens visiting us from another world. I know many of you desperately want to believe - although I can't imagine why - and this opinion makes me a villian at this site, but the evidence supports me.

well...there is certainly more evidence about UFO's then there is about there being a GOD. and billions of people believe in GOD.

i think you need to look at reliable reports instead of relying on YOU TUBE videos. hundreds of reports from pilots, people in the military, from countries that have release their own vast files on the subject...it's hard to discount 100% of these reports as being "made up".

reply to post by Learhoag


Thanks for sharing your sightings.

I respectfully disagree with your assesment of George Knapp. Mr Knapp is an award winning investigative reporter. His job requires detailed investigation of the stories he reports. I have listened to a few interviews about Skinwalker Ranch and find him to be credible (my opinion). I only wish that he could reveal all that he knows about at the Ranch.

Mr Bigelow's interest and funding in UFO/paranormal activity is refreshing and I hope that MUFON can make good use of the funds.

I have a great deal of respect for the Field Investigators out there looking for answers to the anomolies. I also have respect for you as an investigator and am sorry that you got burnt out. Maybe burnt out is not correct but weary of all of the paperwork and no evidence. These craft/beings appear very advanced and have worked vety hard at not leaving evidence. They may be smarter than we are right now.. but I bet they will mess up eventually and get caught with thier britches down. But until then... I am very happy that there are people out there investigating to catch them when they do mess up.

My hat is off to you, Mr Bigelow and Mufon.

Now, now, you can't make blanket statements! You and I are in the same boat except that I have an oar in the form of an open mind. Actually, you don't have any evidence to support you and that's the sticky part. What we do have are strange (to us), non-human constructed objects fleeting around in earth's skies, and hovering. We don't know what they are. We don't know where they're from. We don't know if there is anyone or anything inside them but they do exhibit intelligent control.

What we do know is that humans construct remote-controlled aerial vehicles and there are operators sitting in various locations operating these RCAVs. Since our RCAVs are smaller than conventional craft no one seeing them thinks there are occupants.

But UFOs are a different story. We don't know if they are also RCAVs or there are actually occupants in them. Since someone or something has to be operating them, and we don't know if they are in the vehicles or somewhere maybe not even in our own dimension (to really go off afield!) our thinking has to change. Now, one can't make the jump to saying that these "aliens" if they are so, come from somewhere in the universe. We have no concept of that.

However, NASA constantly videotapes objects that are in space, and NASA has filmed UFOs fleeting over the lunar surface and sometimes shown going over craters that seem to emit acknowledging light signals.

You could eventually be proven right that there are no aliens visiting earth from another world and I sure as hell have to evidence to say they are. But until proven otherwise and until evidence appears, just keep an open mind and enjoy being a villain, I do!

Originally posted by Tippys Dad
No matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn't change the fact there are no aliens visiting us from another world. I know many of you desperately want to believe - although I can't imagine why - and this opinion makes me a villian at this site, but the evidence supports me.

Well, jimmyx, he didn't criticize the reality of UFOs, he criticized the reality of aliens visiting us from another world. There is no evidence of such.

And to go off topic, billions believe in the judeo/christian god because billions are mentally-conditioned to replace logic, common sense and reason with myth.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Tippys Dad
No matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn't change the fact there are no aliens visiting us from another world. I know many of you desperately want to believe - although I can't imagine why - and this opinion makes me a villian at this site, but the evidence supports me.

well...there is certainly more evidence about UFO's then there is about there being a GOD. and billions of people believe in GOD.

i think you need to look at reliable reports instead of relying on YOU TUBE videos. hundreds of reports from pilots, people in the military, from countries that have release their own vast files on the subject...it's hard to discount 100% of these reports as being "made up".

An investigative reporter, especially on Knapp's alleged level, doesn't ask about MIBs as if they were fact. We all know, or should know that MIBs are a construct and have no base in reality. But to good ol' George, they're real. Yeah, right.

I can't list all of the reasons why I say I'm not crazy about Knapp's style of reporting. I did find some comments made by others in a few websites. I include them here to support my opinion. I did not list the URLs but the comments were copied and pasted without editing by me.

1) Knapp left KLAS to work for Altamira Communications, a public relations firm whose clients included those favoring the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository (commonly referred to as a dump) 90 miles north of Las Vegas. He was rehired by KLAS-TV in the mid 1990s when he left the nuclear dump public relations firm. Knapp was heavily criticized in the media when he admitted in May 1992 during a nuclear utility conference in Washington, D.C. that part of his job included compiling what he called ''dossiers'' on key Yucca Mountain opponents.

2) "Take the Path of the Skinwalker article by George Knapp for example, calling it the Gorman Ranch in an attempt to mislead the reader."

3) "These guys staring you down had a 'Men in Black' feel to it?" asks Knapp.

4)Also,
There was no "accidently" kicking anything....Clark deliberately dug up something that was to be hidden. It's not the same as standing on a mountain range and watching with bincoulars. It's closer to breaking into an office than "accidentally" kicking something. So Knapp's putting up a strawman. But then again, Knapp believed Lazar was legit."
---------------

Originally posted by fworkman
reply to post by Learhoag

 

Thanks for sharing your sightings.

I respectfully disagree with your assesment of George Knapp. Mr Knapp is an award winning investigative reporter. His job requires detailed investigation of the stories he reports. I have listened to a few interviews about Skinwalker Ranch and find him to be credible (my opinion). I only wish that he could reveal all that he knows about at the Ranch.

Mr Bigelow's interest and funding in UFO/paranormal activity is refreshing and I hope that MUFON can make good use of the funds.

I have a great deal of respect for the Field Investigators out there looking for answers to the anomolies. I also have respect for you as an investigator and am sorry that you got burnt out. Maybe burnt out is not correct but weary of all of the paperwork and no evidence. These craft/beings appear very advanced and have worked vety hard at not leaving evidence. They may be smarter than we are right now.. but I bet they will mess up eventually and get caught with thier britches down. But until then... I am very happy that there are people out there investigating to catch them when they do mess up.

My hat is off to you, Mr Bigelow and Mufon.